Soaking?

My bp has started soaking randomly over the past two weeks - I've caught him twice - once was over thanksgiving and he only had about 4 inches of body in the bowl (which is too small for him anyway). This morning he was trying to cram all of himself into it. He's 7 years old and I have never seen this behavior before.

His temps are constant 80 cool hide, 88 hot hide, ambient 79-80. Humidity is a bit unstable this time of the year, about 65-70% right after I wet down his sponges and it drops over 1-2 days. I refresh them with warm water when his humidity gets to about 50%. His hot side drops a little faster.

I just had his yearly check up, no health issues at all, fecal was negative. I haven't seen any signs of mites (though I'm not terrified that is why he is soaking), but he is a cinny mojo so his belly is crisp white and I would think I'd see mites easily, I didn't see anything near his eyes or heat pits.

I do have a new snake that I've had for about two months, but he is in a separate room under strict QT. He is done last at night and I wash my hands with medical grade disinfectant. They share nothing - not even the same sink for washing dishes. No signs of mites on that one either (a 20g rat snake). Just feeling a little panicked. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

It sounds like you've covered all the bases- I'd guess it's just the occasional lower humidity, typical in winter when our home heat lowers the humidity. It could also be an impending shed?

Is this your first rat snake? Hope you share more when you get a chance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crowfingers

My bp has started soaking randomly over the past two weeks - I've caught him twice - once was over thanksgiving and he only had about 4 inches of body in the bowl (which is too small for him anyway). This morning he was trying to cram all of himself into it. He's 7 years old and I have never seen this behavior before.

His temps are constant 80 cool hide, 88 hot hide, ambient 79-80. Humidity is a bit unstable this time of the year, about 65-70% right after I wet down his sponges and it drops over 1-2 days. I refresh them with warm water when his humidity gets to about 50%. His hot side drops a little faster.

I just had his yearly check up, no health issues at all, fecal was negative. I haven't seen any signs of mites (though I'm not terrified that is why he is soaking), but he is a cinny mojo so his belly is crisp white and I would think I'd see mites easily, I didn't see anything near his eyes or heat pits.

I do have a new snake that I've had for about two months, but he is in a separate room under strict QT. He is done last at night and I wash my hands with medical grade disinfectant. They share nothing - not even the same sink for washing dishes. No signs of mites on that one either (a 20g rat snake). Just feeling a little panicked. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

---

With no signs of illness or injury and having double checked your husbandry parameters, I say you accept the fact that you can't explain every odd behavior and just enjoy your snake.

If your temps are spot on, as you say, who knows. I doubt it's something from the rat snake. It sounds like you are following proper quarantine procedure.

Sometimes snakes do weird things. Could be an impending shed, or humidity differences or even temp felt a little too hot for your BP. Not that it is, but with different humidity levels, time of year, etc. your BP just might feel like a soak.

Keep us posted if you find anything else unusual, but I've seen snakes do weirder things and be absolutely fine.

Thanks for all the replies <3

I just get worried when one of my pets does something out of the ordinary. When he was at the vet for his annual (two weeks ago) I even made sure he was the only reptile on the schedule that day, it was my day off so that I didn't have to keep him there with me for 12 hours, and none of the staff working that day have reptiles either. I'm maybe a little over protective of my noodles...

Hopefully its just a phase and he's just being strange.

----------
The rat snake is a regular baby eastern black rat that had the misfortune of getting stuck inside the back of my fridge around the first part of October - (also the reason for a very strict QT). I couldn't figure out why my cats were so interested in the fridge for a week or so, then I pulled it out and looked - thinking a mouse might be in the insulation, but nope - rat snake lol. He was wedged between the plastic frame and some sort of metal sheet that made an L in the bottom corner. There was poop in there and he was kinda dehydrated looking like he'd been there for a while, so I got him out and set him up in a hospital tank. He drank immediately and I fed him a tiny pinky 24 hours later. He was 10 whole grams. I figured he needed some extra TLC before being forced to brumate, so he's staying until spring. Already got him up to 20g, on a feeding every 5 days schedule.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...2/IMG_3418.JPG

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/450442571596955653/1049905231783268382/IMG_3418.JPG

He's now got an arcadia uvb strip light and more live plants as well. It's actually been really fun decorating a cage with live plants that can't be crushed and water bowls that can't be flipped lol. He is also much more motion-aware than the bp. It's kinda wild to think how different colubrids are from pythons - he almost seems smarter because he's so aware of everything:rofl:

....I hope that come spring when he's back in the wild he doesn't expect mice to just appear from the sky....

Oh, he's so cute! And yes, that's what I love most about rat snakes- they're very aware. Are you feeding him live? (You should, if he's going back outside in the spring.) I'm glad you found him in time, & before your cats did any damage. :gj:

BTW, I'm glad I'm not the only one that worries about what one of my snakes might catch while at a vet's office. Most likely your snake is just slow at going into his next shed? Probably nothing to worry about.

It has been a few months since his last shed. And I know he's put on weight so he should be about due...he fasted last year from mid-November to mid-April and lost about 200g. He's gained everything back plus some extra and is now 1673g. Fingers crossed lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Are you feeding him live? (You should, if he's going back outside in the spring.)

---

I'm feeding live (99% of the time) - I have a friend that raises feeders for her own collection, but there has been a time or two when she didn't have and of the smaller pinkies. As fast as he's growing it shouldn't be too long before that won't matter as much. I have f/t as back up too. Luckily he's never even hesitated to eat and does not seem picky as to if it's live or not :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crowfingers

I'm feeding live (99% of the time) - I have a friend that raises feeders for her own collection, but there has been a time or two when she didn't have and of the smaller pinkies. As fast as he's growing it shouldn't be too long before that won't matter as much. I have f/t as back up too. Luckily he's never even hesitated to eat and does not seem picky as to if it's live or not :P

---

Rat snakes are pretty smart about accepting f/t prey, but he just needs to stay in practice (with live prey) if he's going to be wild again, so he doesn't get hurt. (Are you sure you'll be able to part with him? LOL)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Rat snakes are pretty smart about accepting f/t prey, but he just needs to stay in practice (with live prey) if he's going to be wild again, so he doesn't get hurt. (Are you sure you'll be able to part with him? LOL)

---

I have raised and rehabbed a ton of snakes (and other creatures), never kept one though lol - even if they are one of my favorite species...though I will admit that it crossed my mind. But if I were to keep him, then I'd be out of room for more cages...and I really want to BTS in the next few years

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crowfingers

...I really want to BTS in the next few years

---

"BTS"? Back to school?

mine has done this the entire time i have had her - i think it’s a hunting strategy tbh eg: waiting in water for prey to walk by because my female Colombian red tail, and scrub python do this a lot too - first clicked with my scrub because of his hunting tactics then i figured it could apply to the others but this is what i think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

"BTS"? Back to school?

---

Blue Tongue Skink lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crowfingers

Blue Tongue Skink lol

---

Ah, thanks! It was the word "to" that threw me off (sounded like an action, not a thing) & made no sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crowfingers

....and I really want to BTS in the next few years

---

I've just never heard anyone say "I really want to Blue Tongue Skink in the next few years". :D I suppose it could be a new dance craze? LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Ah, thanks! It was the word "to" that threw me off (sounded like an action, not a thing) & made no sense.

I've just never heard anyone say "I really want to Blue Tongue Skink in the next few years". :D I suppose it could be a new dance craze? LOL

---

lol - :rofl::rofl::rofl:should have been "I really want to GET a Blue Tongue Skink in the next few years" sometimes my brain is faster than my typing

Soaking update....

One thing I forgot to mention in my original post (as I didn't think there was any possible correlation)- his light had gone out about a week prior to the start of his soaking, around Nov16-18th (I have the LED strip from AP cages).
He started to soak almost nightly for the next two weeks (starting Dec 6th), and sometimes most of the day...and refused to eat...
I deep cleaned his cage, I checked and re-checked his temps, checked for mites or injury, I covered the front of the cage for more shelter, he wasn't dull, never went into blue, nothing changed the behavior
His new lights finally came in (12/17) and I took his tank apart to install them and deep cleaned (again) while I was at it...

He has not soaked since resuming his regular day/night cycle.



He went through a normal shed last week and ate tonight as normal. I still don't understand...ball pythons are enigmas...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crowfingers

Soaking update....

One thing I forgot to mention in my original post (as I didn't think there was any possible correlation)- his light had gone out about a week prior to the start of his soaking, around Nov16-18th (I have the LED strip from AP cages).
He started to soak almost nightly for the next two weeks (starting Dec 6th), and sometimes most of the day...and refused to eat...
I deep cleaned his cage, I checked and re-checked his temps, checked for mites or injury, I covered the front of the cage for more shelter, he wasn't dull, never went into blue, nothing changed the behavior
His new lights finally came in (12/17) and I took his tank apart to install them and deep cleaned (again) while I was at it...

He has not soaked since resuming his regular day/night cycle.



He went through a normal shed last week and ate tonight as normal. I still don't understand...ball pythons are enigmas...

---

You & me both- :confusd: Just be glad he's back to normal, I guess. (I think some snakes are like "Ha ha, made you look!" ?)

It no wonder everyone says that "ball pythons can be picky" - go off feed for anything from a degree too hot or cold, a hide too big, something smells weird, too much activity, too little cover, air is too dry or too wet.....I'm just glad he can't read the newspaper. Can you imagine what they would do if they could read horoscopes?! :rofl:

"Venus is in retrograde...guess I won't eat for a month"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crowfingers

It no wonder everyone says that "ball pythons can be picky" - go off feed for anything from a degree too hot or cold, a hide too big, something smells weird, too much activity, too little cover, air is too dry or too wet.....I'm just glad he can't read the newspaper. Can you imagine what they would do if they could read horoscopes?! :rofl:

"Venus is in retrograde...guess I won't eat for a month"

---

:rofl::rofl::rofl: For sure!

I wonder if BPs have undergone some semblance of domestication because I can't help but look at how finicky and picky they can be even when under the best care and go "How do you guys survive in the wild..."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snagrio

I wonder if BPs have undergone some semblance of domestication because I can't help but look at how finicky and picky they can be even when under the best care and go "How do you guys survive in the wild..."

---

I've always wondered the same thing. But have you ever gone camping? Maybe it's like with humans, when we go camping, the way even canned stew tastes wonderful 'cause we're so hungry? So maybe when they're "camping" in the wild, they're not fussy? Either that or they've conspired to get even with humans everywhere for taking away their freedom? :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snagrio

I wonder if BPs have undergone some semblance of domestication because I can't help but look at how finicky and picky they can be even when under the best care and go "How do you guys survive in the wild..."

---

I think a better explanation is that when you're short, fat, slow and nonvenomous, it pays to be cautious. So, their survival strategy is to forgo feeding if anything is even slightly amiss. As a result, they also have the ability to go long periods of time without eating. In captivity, this strategy doesn't make sense because there is no danger. I imagine when ball pythons become fully domesticated, they'll be bolder and easier to feed, not harder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snagrio

I wonder if BPs have undergone some semblance of domestication because I can't help but look at how finicky and picky they can be even when under the best care and go "How do you guys survive in the wild..."

---

Behaviors such as tendency to eat anything all the time can be selected for, but I don't know that anyone does so with BPs; quite the opposite, from what I read. I and some others do it with lizard feeding colubrids, and the effects can be seen in just a couple generations. "Assist" feeding troublesome hatchlings selects for the need for assist feeding. In my own experience and in that of breeders I've mentioned this to, snakes that are problematic feeders when they're younger birth problematic feeding offspring at a much higher rate.

I'm sure the same is the case to some extent for parameter tolerance (temps, RH), but there are probably other more important factors at play with BPs such as unidentified/undiagnosed asymptomatic pathogens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Behaviors such as tendency to eat anything all the time can be selected for, but I don't know that anyone does so with BPs; quite the opposite, from what I read. I and some others do it with lizard feeding colubrids, and the effects can be seen in just a couple generations. "Assist" feeding troublesome hatchlings selects for the need for assist feeding. In my own experience and in that of breeders I've mentioned this to, snakes that are problematic feeders when they're younger birth problematic feeding offspring at a much higher rate.

I'm sure the same is the case to some extent for parameter tolerance (temps, RH), but there are probably other more important factors at play with BPs such as unidentified/undiagnosed asymptomatic pathogens.

---

Oh yeah, I've heard of this before and it makes sense. Especially with the massive morph craze with everyone trying to find the next 10k-selling snake. Even the most stubborn feeders will have rodents forced down their throats if that's what it takes and be bred with reckless abandon. In the wild such animals would simply fail to thrive and better genes would continue. So if that hypothesis is true, "bad eaters" are perpetuating in captivity at an alarming rate because little care is put into the physiology of breeding stock, only the colors and patterns (not to say morphs are inherently bad, I myself own one, but problems arise when that becomes the sole focus over everything else regarding the animals in our care).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Behaviors such as tendency to eat anything all the time can be selected for, but I don't know that anyone does so with BPs; quite the opposite, from what I read. I and some others do it with lizard feeding colubrids, and the effects can be seen in just a couple generations. "Assist" feeding troublesome hatchlings selects for the need for assist feeding. In my own experience and in that of breeders I've mentioned this to, snakes that are problematic feeders when they're younger birth problematic feeding offspring at a much higher rate....

---

I totally agree with this- whether it's for commercial gain or because we (humans) just love snakes too much to let any of them fail to thrive if we can help it, natural selection in the wild does a far better job of creating strong, viable snakes. It's why I prefer the wild-type "natural" snakes over the hard-to-resist "eye candy" morphs created for the pet trade. Even though many defend the practices saying they're "only captive pets", the process isn't doing them any favors in the long term.

In the past, I've had some albino & other aberrant snakes- but the more I've thought about it, I much prefer to put my support behind what nature decided was viable. It makes no sense to me to select for "defects" that don't favor survival, no matter how commercially successful they might be. What's more, it's no fun at all to keep a snake that feeds poorly, or has other unseen issues that develop later. "Mother nature" may seem cruel in the short run, but she's kinder in the long run.