IBD confirmed in my boa... what should I be expecting?

TLDR; Just trying to get more info and understand where my expectations should be at, since I was under the impression that snakes with IBD had no other option but euthanasia...

A little backstory: in late 2020 my boa (unsure of age, we're guessing she could be anywhere from 12 to 16 at this point) got a lump in front of her vent area which was tested and confirmed to be an infected scent gland. After months of trying to drain it and antibiotics and it shrinking but not getting totally better, we elected to remove it. It turned out to actually have necrosis. Removed it, she healed up beautifully with just a scar from the surgery.

About September this year, after helping her with a torn shed, we noticed part of her upper belly portion seemed "caved in" and so we called the vet. Since she was still acting normal otherwise, they booked us for the earliest appointment a month out and said to watch her and call if anything changed. Vet saw her, thought she might have arthritis and attempted x-rays while un-sedated which were too blurry to use, but she saw some fuzziness that could have possibly been arthritis. Booked her to come back on a surgery day next week so we could sedate her and get clear x-rays. X-rays reveal the fuzziness is a serious infection in her spine, with what seems to be partial bone growth and maybe some spinal fusion (which now seems very likely to some degree). Ordered cultures and blood work and it comes back with obvious inclusions, and we get the diagnosis that she has IBD. I thought the next thing she was going to say was we had to euthanize her, but she said since she's the only reptile we have that since she's still eating and drinking and generally moving around it's worth trying to treat the infection. She's currently on Amikacin for antibiotics (the culture showed the type of infection is responsive to it) and pain meds, both injectable. We also attempted laser therapy today in case it helps with any inflammation or pain, which put her in a feisty mood (not sure if that's good or bad...)

I always thought IBD was an immediate death sentence. I'm more than willing to fight the good fight for her, and my vet hasn't said all hope is lost, but I'm also trying to look up research and there's... not much out there that I can find. They all basically say the same things: pythons with IBD pass quickly, boas it could be weeks or months, or they can recover and become carriers. They could live with IBD but pass from complications due to weakened immune system. Everything says there is no treatment and euthanasia is recommended, but most of this info is from at least a few years ago. Where else can I turn to for information?

Just so I'm clear: this is the boa you got in 2014 and it has been living with you as your sole reptile ever since?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

Just so I'm clear: this is the boa you got in 2014 and it has been living with you as your sole reptile ever since?

---

Adopted June 2011, I had a ball python as well but she passed in 2012. No other snakes or reptiles other than my boa since then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xFenrir

Adopted June 2011, I had a ball python as well but she passed in 2012. No other snakes or reptiles other than my boa since then.

---

How long did you have the ball python & what did she die from, if you know?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

How long did you have the ball python & what did she die from, if you know?

---

I got my BP in... January 2011? I know it was earlier in the year. She was sick with "RI"s maybe around late summer after we got her and was given oral meds (I didn't know they're not very effective) multiple times, and when she wasn't getting better I took her to a different vet who cultured a fungal infection in her throat from swabbing. She passed relatively shortly after that, I didn't even think to do a necropsy. I'm wondering now though if it was IBD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xFenrir

I got my BP in... January 2011? I know it was earlier in the year. She was sick with "RI"s maybe around late summer after we got her and was given oral meds (I didn't know they're not very effective) multiple times, and when she wasn't getting better I took her to a different vet who cultured a fungal infection in her throat from swabbing. She passed relatively shortly after that, I didn't even think to do a necropsy. I'm wondering now though if it was IBD.

---

I'd be wondering the same thing. So sorry that your boa has been diagnosed with IBD- but like your vet said, since this is your only one you could wait a while- depending on quality of life & not allowing your pet to suffer.

Wow. I've heard that IBD can lie dormant in boas for months but this is the first time I've heard of a confirmed case where the snake was outwardly healthy for 11+ years.

Do you know exactly which virus was found in your boa? While arenavirus is the one that causes IBD, nidovirus and ophidian paramyxovirus (aka FERLA virus) cause similar symptoms, and in the past symptomatic snakes were diagnosed with "IBD" before more specific blood tests on live critters became available.

Did you take your snake to SEAVS in Fairfax, VA? If not you might want to reach out to them, I think they do research on certain diseases. University of Florida is another option.

A fairly recent and quite disturbing paper:

Prevalence of inclusion body disease and associated comorbidity in captive collections of boid and pythonid snakes in Belgium

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0229667

Many subclinical infections/carriers of reptarenavirus were found in B.c. and retics (and a whole lot of mites).

"our findings indicate that it may take several years before infection becomes clinical in IBD⁺ or reptarenavirus infected snakes."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

Wow. I've heard that IBD can lie dormant in boas for months but this is the first time I've heard of a confirmed case where the snake was outwardly healthy for 11+ years.....

---

Same here- if true, it's astounding...& scary!

As bcr229 suggested, I hope you're able to look further into this with the suggested sources, & I want to thank you for sharing this with us here, since most of us (I'd assume) have no direct experience with this. Hoping the best for you & yours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

Wow. I've heard that IBD can lie dormant in boas for months but this is the first time I've heard of a confirmed case where the snake was outwardly healthy for 11+ years.

Do you know exactly which virus was found in your boa? While arenavirus is the one that causes IBD, nidovirus and ophidian paramyxovirus (aka FERLA virus) cause similar symptoms, and in the past symptomatic snakes were diagnosed with "IBD" before more specific blood tests on live critters became available.

Did you take your snake to SEAVS in Fairfax, VA? If not you might want to reach out to them, I think they do research on certain diseases. University of Florida is another option.

---

I don't know if they IDed the virus, I can definitely check. I'm not sure if they would do that - they are an exotics vet in MD but I think they were only going off of something like a CBC panel and cultures. I know they said the inclusions were observed visually, I'm assuming they did a smear or something? They did tell me the type of spinal infection but I'm having trouble remembering, I know it wasn't salmoella though which is what we were concerned about.

I'm happy to reach out to anywhere that is researching IBD or similar diseases. Should I be looking for certain departments? Google doesn't bring up much on whos doing research so I'll have to rely on more experienced or connected keepers to tell me where to turn though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Same here- if true, it's astounding...& scary!

As bcr229 suggested, I hope you're able to look further into this with the suggested sources, & I want to thank you for sharing this with us here, since most of us (I'd assume) have no direct experience with this. Hoping the best for you & yours.

---

Thank you. It is for sure new territory from anything I've read, and she has definitely not been around any snake since 2012 - we have no friends with snakes; my last reptile expo was 2014 and I never touched any reptiles there nor did I handle my boa anytime directly after the show.

As upset as we are that this is how her final time with us will be (however long it is) I'm hoping we can somehow contribute to more understanding of this disease. My husband and I discussed that we are willing to send samples or data if we can. I just don't want to give away her body at the end, so I'm not sure what we could do. But I'm open to talking with others about what they'd be looking for.

Do your research on Google Scholar. General web searches have a very low signal to noise ratio ever since the Amazon Affiliate program started causing serious damage to the quality of information on the web.

https://scholar.google.com/

If I lived within a day's drive, I'd go to SEAVS (as recommended above).

I would have something like a boid panel done from a place such as https://www.vetdna.com/ to determine exactly what your snake has before making a decision on what to do with her, as different groups are working with different viral diseases.

Also inclusions aren't necessarily indicative of IBD because other things can cause them. I had a boa that passed of cancer, verified via necropsy, that had inclusions caused by the cancer. She had been housed in the same room as several racks of ball pythons and stacks of other boas and retics for years - about 50 snakes total - so if she had IBD or even any viral infection as a carrier the other snakes should have been dropping like flies. Up until the cancer she had never been sick, never had an RI, never regurged, etc.

And I'd still be hoping that it's something else (treatable & not fatal), & that they jumped to a conclusion about the inclusions they saw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

I would have something like a boid panel done from a place such as https://www.vetdna.com/ to determine exactly what your snake has before making a decision on what to do with her, as different groups are working with different viral diseases.

Also inclusions aren't necessarily indicative of IBD because other things can cause them. I had a boa that passed of cancer, verified via necropsy, that had inclusions caused by the cancer. She had been housed in the same room as several racks of ball pythons and stacks of other boas and retics for years - about 50 snakes total - so if she had IBD or even any viral infection as a carrier the other snakes should have been dropping like flies. Up until the cancer she had never been sick, never had an RI, never regurged, etc.

---

My vet said she didn't see anything she thought indicated cancer, but I also would hope they're wrong about IBD. That's also what got me is that I'm not seeing any of the "indicative" neurological signs like regurgitating, weight loss, or any twisting/stargazing, but that could also be because she's in early stages of the disease?

I'll be sure to check out more diagnostic options, I saw University of Florida also does testing specifically for IBD so maybe my vet can send samples there too.

I didn't mean to say that your snake might have cancer, just that there have been other causes of inclusions found than arenavirus.

Inclusion bodies are made to encapsulate foreign bodies, it doesn't always mean arena or nido. But, boas are fairly well known to go 1-3+ years without symptoms, or be asymptomatic carriers. Supposedly other species can as well, you just don't hear about it as often.

Definitely get the inclusion bodies tested if you can, it may be unrelated to the viruses that lead to the typical IBD that people are aware of. And if it is one of those viruses, do not interact with anyone else's reptiles, and don't add any new reptiles. When your snake passes, dispose of all caging and equipment before getting any other reptile.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

When your snake passes, dispose of all caging and equipment before getting any other reptile.

---

Since IBD arenavirus -- like nidovirus and paramyxovirus -- is an enveloped RNA virus, it is quite unstable in the environment and very susceptible to regular disinfectants (bleach, alcohol). Equipment can be disinfected with common products such as bleach or alcohol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Since IBD arenavirus -- like nidovirus and paramyxovirus -- is an enveloped RNA virus, it is quite unstable in the environment and very susceptible to regular disinfectants (bleach, alcohol). Equipment can be disinfected with common products such as bleach or alcohol.

---

Good to know! I’ve always thought they persisted rather heavily in the environment, but perhaps that’s just what people did jic before more research was done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

Good to know! I’ve always thought they persisted rather heavily in the environment, but perhaps that’s just what people did jic before more research was done.

---

Fortunately no, for all that they are highly contagious they're pretty delicate. You may be thinking of crypto, which persists in the open for months, can survive being frozen, and is impervious to bleach and F10.

So just an update on the Saga of Satin: she has been on Amykacin since October and it looks like we've at least stopped the progression of the leisons from the spinal infection, but she does have permanent bone growth so her section of neck does not bend well if at all. Luckily she's been having no problems eating or drinking. We are sending out a PCR panel to University of Florida to confirm the IBD diagnosis. Hopefully we'll know within the next few weeks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

Do you know exactly which virus was found in your boa? While arenavirus is the one that causes IBD, nidovirus and ophidian paramyxovirus (aka FERLA virus) cause similar symptoms, and in the past symptomatic snakes were diagnosed with "IBD" before more specific blood tests on live critters became available.

---

Update #2: we now have definitive answers: University of Florida confirmed my vet's IBD diagnosis via PCR, and that Satin is positive for the arenavirus. This will not change our treatment plan since we were already treating her as confirmed. It does raise many questions on how she got it or when she was exposed, as for the last almost decade I am the only person I've known that's had a snake. I'm not sure we will ever know the answer, but I hope somehow Satin's saga helps someone as it's possible she could have been asymptomatic for YEARS before this manifested.

Her bloodwork is normal except for her WBC count (the ones that handle inflammation specifically) is still somewhat elevated - since she had a major infection we are not sure if they are elevated due to the bone growth in her spine, or if the infection is still lingering. We'll be rechecking a CBC in 4-6 weeks to see if we can find a pattern.

Quick update for anyone interested: we did a 6-month follow up with bloodwork, and our vet thinks we might have stopped the spinal infection as there is no progression in the fused area of Satin's neck and her bloodwork is coming back okay. Her WBC is still sitting at about 10, which has been pretty standard since her initial scent gland infection in 2020 ( it dropped to 8 during when we found the spinal infection, but our vet doesn't think we'll really see any notable improvement in that value since she's IBD+). Inclusion bodies are still also present.

Currently we're monitoring the fused spinal area to track if any progression happens - right now she has about 20in/50cm of fused bone, but she is still eating, drinking and moving around her tank with no issues so we will continue to take it week by week with her.

IBD is a matter of concern to all of us. So, I'm sure we all really appreciate the updates.

xFenrir- thanks so much for updating & sharing your experience with this. So many wonder how long a snake might harbor such infections & how long they should quarantine their newly-acquired snakes for- your experience suggests it may be much longer than what most people assume to be safe. So much we still don't fully understand. And I'm sorry for what your Satin is going thru but it sounds like at least you have good veterinary help there.

I'm in discussions with a small group of people, including veterinarians in research institutions, about the current situation with both Nidovirus and IBD (different viruses with different prevalence in Boas and Pythons) in terms of testing, prevalence, and disease outcomes. I'm not trying to be dramatic or deceptive here but I am hesitant to say too much until the veterinarians involved complete their decisions about how they plan to amend their protocols for testing and care. I promise I'll update as more info becomes available.

I want to be clear that I am not a veterinarian. I have several years of experience as a vet tech in laboratory and exotics settings but have not worked as a vet tech for many years. My current conversations and sources are based on the fact that I keep up with research and a close friend and keeper of over 100 snakes noticed anomalous test results when testing for Nido and IBD. We initiated conversations with her veterinarian, whose master's degree is in PCR testing (which is what's used to test for these viruses) and then progressed to discussions with researchers at University of Florida.

It has become pretty clear that IBD or Nidovirus can be present in snakes for months or years with either no symptoms or minimal symptoms.

I do feel comfortable saying this much: xFenrir, you are looking at an ongoing quality of life assessment for your snake. This is not - as I think you have realized - a situation that calls for euthanasia at this time UNLESS your snake is showing clear indicators that their quality of life is so poor that euthanasia is the kindest option. And that does not seem to be the case here.

You're correct that there is no cure for IBD. Whether a snake even tests positive for it depends on the current viral load in a positive snake; viral load can shift based on external conditions such as husbandry and stress levels. So even a negative test may not reflect a true negative status. To be safe, it's best to test 3-4 times at 6-month intervals.

If a snake tests positive they may be severely symptomatic and a candidate for euthanasia, mildly/sporadically symptomatic or entirely asymptomatic. Severity and symptoms may be (are likely) related to specific strains of the virus; there's currently no definitive research on this for IBD; there is emerging research on Nidovirus strains.

The spinal issues you describe may be bacterial vertebral osteomyelitis, which is commonly found in IBD+ snakes.

There is honestly nothing I am aware of that you can do other than provide a stress-free life insofar as possible along with the best husbandry you can manage, along with ongoing assessment of your snake's comfort level and quality of life overall. You may be looking at many more years of a pretty good life. Or you may not - but right now it sounds like things are stable.

If any of you with positive snakes, or your veterinarians, want to discuss things further with researchers, I would recommend the University of Florida; I can try to get you some specific names if you like. But for now I would just continue giving your snake excellent care, as this is what will provide a foundation for her to maintain good quality of life.

Editing to add that a positive result in a setting where there are other snakes calls for ongoing quarantine, and if a keeper can't manage quarantine and meticulous biosecurity then euthanasia might have to be a consideration. The problem is that a single negative test result in other snakes in the facility might or might not be accurate. It's all very frustrating and anxiety-producing.

At the moment I would not personally rely on test results from ANY of the current commercial labs. I am not saying these labs are bad; I am saying that the test procedures the commercial labs use may not be sufficient for really accurate results.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

xFenrir- thanks so much for updating & sharing your experience with this. So many wonder how long a snake might harbor such infections & how long they should quarantine their newly-acquired snakes for- your experience suggests it may be much longer than what most people assume to be safe. So much we still don't fully understand. And I'm sorry for what your Satin is going thru but it sounds like at least you have good veterinary help there.

---

Our vet has been amazing - I will always stress to new owners the importance of having a reputable exotics vet within reachable distance!

The course of action seems to just be watch and wait. We'll be doing 6 month follow ups for the foreseeable future unless something changes. It is scary to think that no matter how careful you may be and how perfect your precautions are, illnesses like this can still sneak right under the radar until it's too late.