reddish skin between scales

Hi all -

Tonight I saw a reddish area of what I assumed was leftover rat blood on my female's neck. I dampened a paper towel and tried to rub it off to no avail, but noticed she was helping by rubbing herself against the towels, which seems to suggest the area is bugging her. On very (very) close examination the skin under her scales looks a little reddish in this area, and the tips of each scale almost seem to be missing, exposing these tiny areas. She recently shed, and I noticed at her last feeding it took longer than usual for her to realign her jaw - when things like stuck shed or jaw happen she tends to overreact and she may have injured herself by scraping against things in her tank, or I'm worried there might be a local area of irritation or infection. I know it's probably very hard to see in these pics but I tried to circle the area - she has no red pigment on her at all normally so this is just from her skin. The only info I can find online about reddened skin is due to sepsis so this has me really nervous.

editing to add: I recently cleaned and disinfected her tank / decorations so I wonder if maybe I didn't fully rinse something and some disinfectant has irritated her skin or something

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What disinfectant did you use?

Zoo Med brand cage disinfectant - the active ingredient is Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride - I spray the bin and furnishings, let them sit for five minutes, then wipe them dry and rinse with plain water.

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Originally Posted by plateOfFlan

Zoo Med brand cage disinfectant - the active ingredient is Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride - I spray the bin and furnishings, let them sit for five minutes, then wipe them dry and rinse with plain water.

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First, if you google (etc) Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride, you will find it's not the friendliest cleaner to animals, or humans.

I would stop using it.

Use F10SC Veterinary Cleaner, which I use 99% of the time, or chlorhexidine. Both are diluted (different ratios - so be careful), but a little goes a long way. The F10SC is specifically designed for use at vets and with animals, so it's very safe - when used appropriately/correct solution. Additionally, it makes me feel good cleaning with it because a) I have for years with no ill side effects and b) it doesn't kill on contact. To be fully effective it needs to sit on the surface for 5-10 minutes, depending on solution strength, to kill 99.9% of what it touches. This tells me it isn't incredibly toxic like a disinfectant that kills that amount of pathogens quickly (in seconds). Another advantage is that if you let it sit for 5-10 minutes, then wipe off, it leaves a small residue on the tank that helps protect and disinfect on an ongoing basis. Again, this tells me it's safe.

Here is a link to it at Reptile Basics, who I like and order from, but you can get it elsewhere.

https://www.reptilebasics.com/F10SC-100ml

A little goes a long way. I have 9 large tanks and go through 100ml every 6-12 months. Per 32oz water bottle, I use about 4ml. I believe the dose is 3-5ml per bottle, depending on how strong you want it. However, please read the directions and don't quote me on that.

Secondly, and most importantly, I think your snake will be ok. I cannot tell what the marks are, but that probably means it isn't too bad, whatever it is. If it was sepsis, I think your BP would be in much worse shape, or dead already.

Anecdotally, I had a massive infection 2 years ago and almost went septic. From my understanding, you don't just become septic. It's due to an underlying issue that's untreated. In humans this process can take a little time, probably much longer in reptiles, and believe me, I knew something was wrong well before I got to the hospital. Fever, chills, pains, etc. way before almost going septic.

Again, I am not a doctor or vet, but my guess is either an irritation from the disinfectant, or a combination of that and maybe rubbing on a ((sharp(er/ish)) surface that had residue. Either way, I think your snake will be fine.

I would definitely switch disinfectants.

Please keep us posted.

I'd order some Vetericyn if you don't have it on hand. If the redness gets worse, Vetericyn will help protect her from infection.

Thanks for the input everyone! Considering that this has been present for a week at most and is barely visible in photos (it's difficult to see even in person), I'm going to assume it's mild irritation or something - you know how pet-owner brain always makes you freak out and assume the worst! I'm going to rinse her hides off thoroughly today in plain water in case something in there got on her, and put some diluted betadine on that spot just to keep it clean - is vetericyn different from betadine? Should I keep both on hand? I'll start looking into a different disinfectant too, though it looks like F10 doesn't ship to California so I wonder if it's banned here for some reason. If it gets worse or hasn't cleared up after a week of betadine I'll revisit but hopefully it just goes away.

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Originally Posted by plateOfFlan

Thanks for the input everyone! Considering that this has been present for a week at most and is barely visible in photos (it's difficult to see even in person), I'm going to assume it's mild irritation or something - you know how pet-owner brain always makes you freak out and assume the worst! I'm going to rinse her hides off thoroughly today in plain water in case something in there got on her, and put some diluted betadine on that spot just to keep it clean - is vetericyn different from betadine? Should I keep both on hand? I'll start looking into a different disinfectant too, though it looks like F10 doesn't ship to California so I wonder if it's banned here for some reason. If it gets worse or hasn't cleared up after a week of betadine I'll revisit but hopefully it just goes away.

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Vetericyn brand ointment (get the type for reptiles!) Yes, it's different from Betadine (aka povidone-iodine) but both are topical antiseptics & both are considered safe for reptile use (dilute the Betadine to appear like weak tea). Vetericyn is a water-based ointment made just FOR reptile use, & unlike petroleum-jelly based ointments (such as Neosporin), it won't mess up their skin & future sheds.

Never heard of F10 being banned in any states, but IF (?) it is in California, it's likely due to the environmental harm it causes when disposed of carelessly- just guessing. Former Californian here.

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Originally Posted by plateOfFlan

I'll start looking into a different disinfectant too, though it looks like F10 doesn't ship to California so I wonder if it's banned here for some reason.

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If you can't get F10, you can use chlorhexidine. That's what I use.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

If you can't get F10, you can use chlorhexidine. That's what I use.

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Same here- it's fine for my purpose now. When I kept many more snakes than I do now, I used a slightly different (stronger) version of chlorhexidine called Nolvasan, but unless you're keeping many snakes, & especially if you're breeding them or planning to, &/or getting new ones fairly often, Nolvasan is more expensive than you'll want & "overkill". You can find generic chlorhexidine in feed stores & other animal suppliers (it's not expensive either). These products are the most cost-effective by the gallon, but most likely a pint will hold you for a very long time (a year+) since they're greatly diluted for our use. Consider the recommended "shelf life" versus how long it will take you to use the product. Or, share the excess with the local zoo or humane shelter- they're always needing such supplies.

Ordered some, thanks for the recommendation! Her skin is looking better but she seems unsettled. She's either in a hide she normally doesn't use, or half-in half-out of a hide, right now she's laying in the open between her hides .... she's also acting very defensive, I think she's either not feeling well or is mad at me for getting her out daily for betadine washes. Possibly both. Hopefully she can just hate me for awhile and get over it once she's better. I may skip a day tomorrow since she seemed very upset at me today.

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Originally Posted by plateOfFlan

Ordered some, thanks for the recommendation! Her skin is looking better but she seems unsettled. She's either in a hide she normally doesn't use, or half-in half-out of a hide, right now she's laying in the open between her hides .... she's also acting very defensive, I think she's either not feeling well or is mad at me for getting her out daily for betadine washes. Possibly both. Hopefully she can just hate me for awhile and get over it once she's better. I may skip a day tomorrow since she seemed very upset at me today.

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How are you "washing" her daily? I'd suggest you do NOT "bathe" her since this is a localized issue only- right? Dilute a little Betadine & use a Q-tip to apply it just to the affected area & a little beyond it. If you can do this without picking her up out of her home, so much the better. Try to keep treatments low-key with as little intrusion as possible, though if she's in a hide, you'll obviously have to pick up the hide temporarily.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

How are you "washing" her daily? I'd suggest you do NOT "bathe" her since this is a localized issue only- right? Dilute a little Betadine & use a Q-tip to apply it just to the affected area & a little beyond it. If you can do this without picking her up out of her home, so much the better. Try to keep treatments low-key with as little intrusion as possible, though if she's in a hide, you'll obviously have to pick up the hide temporarily.

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Definitely not bathing! I take a folded paper towel and dip it in then wipe the area. I've just been too blas'e about overhandling her I think, because she normally has a very easygoing personality.
I do appreciate that even though they aren't social animals, snakes will try to communicate with us before actually biting, even if the communication is "hey, get away from me!"

Happy to say this girl is back to her friendly self. I guess it didn't show up in pictures but it originally looked like her scales were pushed a little apart, and the skin underneath was dark pink/red. That spot looks back to normal now. I overstressed her messing with it but once we got on a schedule of clean with a wipe, put her back quickly, leave her alone for 2 days, she calmed down. Only thing she's still doing now is spending a lot of time in her cool hide. Maybe the lower temperatures were soothing to the irritated spot.

For those curious, the following PDF is a safety data sheet regarding the chemical Benzalkonium Chloride aka. Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride.

Safety Data Sheet PDF

From the PDF, it is stated...

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Do not use for squirting or spraying. Do not use
for products which come into direct contact with
the skin. Do not use for products which come in-
to contact with foodstuffs. Do not use for private
purposes (household)

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The hazard assessment notes skin corrosion and irritation as a category 1B hazard. This explains the scale conundrum and the red skin. It should also be noted that serious eye damage is noted as a symptom as a category 1 hazard — it would appear that you are lucky your snake is not blind.

I have added this issue to a document I am working on documenting health issues relating to ball pythons as issue #1:1?1.

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Originally Posted by xAnthemia

For those curious, the following PDF is a safety data sheet regarding the chemical Benzalkonium Chloride aka. Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride.

Safety Data Sheet PDF

From the PDF, it is stated...



The hazard assessment notes skin corrosion and irritation as a category 1B hazard. This explains the scale conundrum and the red skin. It should also be noted that serious eye damage is noted as a symptom as a category 1 hazard — it would appear that you are lucky your snake is not blind.

I have added this issue to a document I am working on documenting health issues relating to ball pythons as issue #1:1?1.

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It does seem likely to be the cause of the redness- maybe some was missed when rinsing & wiping out the enclosure, & got on the snake's skin. It sure could have been worse...