Mite Journey Post/Questions

As some of you know, our week long resident with us came home from Repticon with mites. He’s just a little fellow, and so now we embark on that journey. Thank you to those who posted threads already for treatment options. We are going to begin his little bathhouse tomorrow.

In looking at some of the available treatment options and products you can buy, one thing I did not see mentioned was the use of rubbing alcohol as a method of cleaning the tank. One thing that I had seen suggested that rubbing alcohol will dry out eggs from mites as well.

My question to you is this: I’m trying to figure out how to go about getting the most bang for my buck in terms of removing both live mites and eggs from both the snake and the enclosure. What do people think about the idea of removing substrate to a bag, and shop vac’ing Remaining substrate out of the tank and using small attachments to get up under the rims of the glass aquarium. (I would remove the internal filter to keep from harboring eggs) The idea would be to remove as much of the eggs and mites with suction as possible. Disinfect the shop vac at another location.

Afterwards, while I wait for treatment to arrive (reptile spray, I think I have decided), disinfect the glass with rubbing alcohol. It doesn’t leave behind harmful fumes, it dries fast, and seemingly it dehydrates mite eggs.

Noodles is a baby so I want to steer clear of harsher chemicals, if possible. Anyone want to speak to my odds of success here using this method?

Thoughts? Comments? Snide remarks? 😂

Kat

Photos for reference to mite activity. Last photo is just a tax. He ate yesterday, but he doesn’t think he did. The little hunter is in wait.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...E5-CF274-D.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...19947-AD46.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...B91-BCA1-A.jpg

I'm not sure that mites can or would have climbed to the top under the rims but I see no reason not to vacuum there in case. Once tank is empty, liberally spraying with rubbing alcohol is just fine- I use it now & then as one option for disinfection of glass etc. (& all the time for my feeding tongs & giant hemostats)- as you said, it evaporates safely- just keep in away from the snake (obviously). I cannot guarantee there will be nothing left of mites or eggs in the tank but there should be- EXCEPT for the mites hiding ON the snake, which get off & on. If you stay ON this for a while, it may work & I hope it does. And I would totally try Natural Chemistry spray, btw. I want only the safest options too. :gj:

If you bathe him as previously suggested, that will take care of "most" but not likely all mites ON him- because some can hide on the face & you cannot -for obvious reason (the need to breathe)- soak his face/head. I'm totally with you on avoiding the "PAM" or Frontline type of options (which, btw, I've never used- it wasn't even an option when I had 2 different new snakes that came with mites- as it was just that long ago the last time I dealt with mites.) I haven't added any new snakes (that I didn't produce or that were w/c rescues) for a long time now, & snake mites are not an issue from wildlife- only from the captive bred snake industry. I hope :please: they don't end up in our wild populations, but with people's snakes escaping or being dumped, it's probably only a matter of time before our wildlife has yet another human-started problem. :rolleyes:

Bear in mind that some people have mite recurrences thought to be from mites transferred to room surroundings (carpet? etc) or clothing of the handlers. You'll need to be vigilant for a while. ;)

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

Photos for reference to mite activity. Last photo is just a tax. He ate yesterday, but he doesn’t think he did. The little hunter is in wait.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...E5-CF274-D.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...19947-AD46.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...B91-BCA1-A.jpg

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You have observed the little buggers moving, I assume? (Pick them off manually when you see them.)

Indeed, yes. They move. Ugh.

I hate mites. We had some scaly leg mites on our hens last winter and it was a solid month or slathering their legs in coconut oil. They are a huge pain to deal with.

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

Indeed, yes. They move. Ugh.

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And they suck...literally. ;)

Applying coconut oil to chicken's legs...that HAD to be "fun", lol. BTW, never use oil (any kind) on a snake- yes, it would probably smother the mites, but it will also mess up sheds for some time to come. :taz:

Noted.

two of my hens were tolerant. One of them was a holy terror. We ended up having to use ivermectin on them.

should I be concerned about eggs scattering around the floor/bed/ curtains? And are these mites species specific?

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

Noted.

two of my hens were tolerant. One of them was a holy terror. We ended up having to use ivermectin on them.

should I be concerned about eggs scattering around the floor/bed/ curtains? And are these mites species specific?

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Snake mites are pretty species-specific...however, a number of ppl claim that snake mites have "hitched a ride home on them" after visiting either a pet store or a reptile expo (& not changing clothes & showering immediately afterwards), & then invaded their own snake. Some also claim that mite eggs were left in bags of substrate that were bought from venders with snake mites on their animals (& then infested their own pets at home). I cannot verify that & it's a more remote possibility*, but just something to consider when you decide what storefronts to patronize- I just urge caution- if you see reptiles with mites in a store. (*It's more likely their own snake had one or a few eggs or mites which took a while to reproduce & become noticeable- IMO.)

I'll just add that in the past, the only 2 snakes I've had with mites came directly shipped with mites included- so it wasn't a question of them following me home from a store on my clothing or in substrate. And at the time, I had literally a house full of snakes, but no other snakes ever got any mites- mostly because I'm not a fan of "racks" & all my snakes were (& still are) in glass tanks with apparently "enough" space between them throughout my house- they don't tend to "catch things" that way.

And yes- if you handled this snake over your carpet, bed, etc. do a good job vacuuming & cross your fingers. I can't say for sure how far or how well they travel. I just caution that some have re-infestations of mites- that's why I suggested remaining vigilant for a while after you think they're gone. At least you only have one snake, eh? It's truly a nightmare with a collection of snakes.

Snake mites do tend to travel upwards, so all surfaces/areas are potential hiding spots.

As for species-specificity, Ophionyssus natricis (there's the search term to use online if you want to try to avoid misinformation sites) are known to parasitize skinks, and occasionally humans. No reason to freak out about that, but do be aware.

Not to dispute any recommendations made here in any way, but I personally would (and did, the one time I bought a mite-carrying snake a long time ago) use PAM. It has residual protection, as it kills mites on surfaces for some time (a month or thereabouts), and so prevents "re-infestations" (= failed treatment). Permethrin is very stable on surfaces once it dries (it is what is used in tick-repellent outdoor clothing, for example). There is published research showing PAM's safety (here).

Other keepers have other recommendations that have worked for them, or are more in line with their own personal cost/benefit analyses. It is good to have all the facts and options at hand when making a decision. :)

@ M A- I'm glad you jumped in on this (I didn't know they travel upwards, etc) & I agree that we all have to make our own decisions, what we're comfortable using, which is why I linked bcr229's write-up early on, which covers the options pretty well. And for any new snake-keepers it may confuse, "PAM" as referenced for fighting snake mites is NOT the cooking spray- the letters P-A-M stands for "Provent-A-Mite", as praised in the previous post. I've no doubt it's effective, as it's one of the stronger options. No matter what you use, following directions closely is so important.

Treating mites: I wrote this up after my second battle with the little so-and-so's. While other treatments, such as ivermectin injections and wiping the snakes with Frontline, do exist, I have not tried them so I've not included them in my own writeup. You can find out about Frontline at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwCA...&feature=share


Mite Eradication 101:


*** Permethrin ***


Permethrin comes in many forms - Provent-A-Mite (PAM), NIX/RID head lice treatment, Permethrin-10 from a livestock supply store, etc. Once mixed with water its half life is 30 days if kept out of direct sunlight.


PAM has several advantages. It has been tested for use with reptiles, and it comes ready to use. The disadvantages are that it's expensive and most reptile stores don't have it in stock, so you have to wait for it to be shipped to you if you don't have any on hand. Meanwhile the mites are busy feeding and breeding.


NIX/RID is cheaper than PAM and is readily available at WalMart, CVS, and other drug stores. It is also easy to dilute: mix one two ounce (59 ml) bottle of the cream rinse with one gallon of water.


Permethrin-10 is the cheapest of the three options; one eight ounce bottle will make 240 gallons of solution, as only 6 milliliters of it are needed per gallon of water to make an effective mite spray. The upside is that if you have a lot of snakes to treat this will do it very economically. The downside is that it's all too easy to make too strong of a permethrin solution which can seriously injure or kill your snakes.


No matter which product you use, it must be used correctly. I've never applied any permethrin product directly onto my snakes as it's not needed for mite treatment, and permethrin poisoning in a snake can cause irreversible neurological damage or death.


Permethrin use: spray the enclosure, paper substrate, and hides with the diluted solution or PAM. DO NOT SPRAY THE WATER BOWL. Allow everything to dry completely before returning your snake to its home. Also keep a supply of treated and dried newspaper or paper towels and treated hides available so that when a snake makes a mess, you replace the soiled paper and hides with treated ones. Treat the enclosure every two to three weeks. Do not use natural substrates such as cypress mulch, coco, Reptichip, spaghnum moss, etc. while treating for mites, as these provide too many hiding places for the mites to avoid the permethrin. Use paper.


*** Natural Chemistry Reptile Spray ***


Reptile Spray kills mites on contact while wet, once it dries it loses its effectiveness pretty quickly. Reptile Spray is a solution of salts rather than an insecticide; it kills mites by dehydrating them. I don't spray the snakes as more ends up on the floor than on the snake. Instead, I spray a white paper towel with it and wipe it on the snake. That way you get even coverage on the snake, you can work it into the area under their chin really well as that's a favorite hiding place for mites, you don't stress out your snake, and you can look for mites on the paper towel to see how quickly they're being eradicated. Apply twice a week. Note - this stuff hurts like hell in an open wound.


*** Hot Shot No-Pest Strips ***


Some people take a Hot Shot No-Pest strip, cut it into pieces, put each piece into a small sealed container, poke some holes in the container, and put each container into the snake's enclosure. I've used the No-Pest strip but I just hang it in the snake room and close the door. Either way is effective, especially if you have a major outbreak.


If you do use it, remove the water bowls as the insecticide is strongly attracted to water and you don't want the snake drinking it. After 24 hours remove the strip (or pieces), put them into an airtight container for future use, air out the room, and put the water bowls back. Repeat treatment weekly.


Important! If you also keep tarantulas, feeder roaches/dubias, crickets, etc. do not use the No-Pest Strip as it can kill them too!!!!


*** Mild Dish Soap ***


One or two drops of mild dish detergent in your snake's bath water will break the surface tension and prevent mites from floating in the water so they drown. No more than that is needed, your snake should not look like it is taking a bubble bath.


*** Heat ***


Don't laugh, but a temperature of 135*F for five seconds will kill mites and the eggs. I purchased a heat gun used for stripping paint that can be set to blow hot air from 180*F through 1200*F. Using the heat gun and a temperature gun I heated the surfaces and crevices of my racks and enclosures to kill off any mite eggs that may have been laid outside the tubs. Don't get your enclosure surfaces and joined/glued areas too hot or you can damage them.


Mite treatment should continue for 30 days after you stop finding mites on your snake, as an egg can take that long to hatch.


*** FINAL NOTES ***


Effective quarantine means that you treat every new arrival as if it has mites, and new snakes are kept as far away from your established collection as possible for at least 90 days. At the very least new critters should never be in the same room with your established collection.


I treat the quarantine enclosure, hides, and paper substrate with permethrin a day or so before the new snake arrives, and I wipe the snake with a paper towel soaked in Reptile Spray as part of my inspection process when it comes out of the shipping box. If the snake has mites I will know it within a day or two at most. This also goes for snakes from "trusted" sources, my first mite outbreak ever came from someone I trusted.


Finally, a mite egg can take up to 30 days to hatch. So, suppose you treat for a week or so and you think the mites are gone... but there are some eggs left. You stop treating. The eggs hatch a few weeks later, the mites grow up, and the females lay eggs. After six to eight weeks those eggs are hatching and you notice a full-blown infestation. So, if you think you "keep getting mites", you're not: you failed to eradicate the original infestation. Mite treatments should continue for 30 days after you stop finding them.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

@ M A- I'm glad you jumped in on this (I didn't know they travel upwards, etc) & I agree that we all have to make our own decisions, what we're comfortable using, which is why I linked bcr229's write-up early on, which covers the options pretty well. And for any new snake-keepers it may confuse, "PAM" as referenced for fighting snake mites is NOT the cooking spray- the letters P-A-M stands for "Provent-A-Mite", as praised in the previous post. I've no doubt it's effective, as it's one of the stronger options. No matter what you use, following directions closely is so important.

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im glad you mentioned this for the benefit of folks like me. Although I dug in a little deeper instead of taking it at face value, I did at first think it was cooking spray. As I mentioned, our hennies had mites and one method of suffocating them was in fact cooking spray directly to the scales on the feet. So, PAM and not Pam the cooking oil was a great distinction to make, since it’s an effective and encouraged treatment for mites on other animals. At first I was like “oh ok. Same method.”

Further digging revealed: no.

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

im glad you mentioned this for the benefit of folks like me. Although I dug in a little deeper instead of taking it at face value, I did at first think it was cooking spray. As I mentioned, our hennies had mites and one method of suffocating them was in fact cooking spray directly to the scales on the feet. So, PAM and not Pam the cooking oil was a great distinction to make, since it’s an effective and encouraged treatment for mites on other animals. At first I was like “oh ok. Same method.”

Further digging revealed: no.

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I've heard of people smearing their snakes with whatever cooking oil (olive, etc) they had on hand & they swore this was an accepted treatment they saw somewhere. I suspect they got started when they misread about "PAM"/Provent-A-Mite, and thinking "Oh yeah, Pam the cooking spray" as they run to the kitchen...:( (Face>Palm) Poor snakes!

He handled it really well all things considered. He’s been with us only about two weeks, so he has every right to feel crabby about all the changes. But he seems to be a good natured fellow. He was very tolerant of handling and having his mite soak— didn’t even get defensive on us.


Noodle man in his bare bones tank.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...-C827-ED66.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

He handled it really well all things considered. He’s been with us only about two weeks, so he has every right to feel crabby about all the changes. But he seems to be a good natured fellow. He was very tolerant of handling and having his mite soak— didn’t even get defensive on us.


Noodle man in his bare bones tank.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...-C827-ED66.jpg

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I'm glad. :gj: Most BPs are pretty tolerant (mellow) anyway. What MOST snakes hate about a "soak" is the loss of traction- you want to keep the water shallow (not higher than their height is); you don't want to force a snake to keep swimming- most will go thru the motions instinctively even in shallow water, but if they can feel some traction- like a rubber mat or even a small towel under them in the water, that helps reduce their stress & panic too. And keeping the water with just a hint of warmth helps too- not cold or too hot.* Use a thermometer to check- don't rely on how it "feels" because our bodies are 98.6*, so to feel "warm" to us means it's too warm for the snake. Water temperature can be very deceptive. And I'm sure you handled him gently thru this- that all helps too. :gj: BTW, with a drop or 2 of soap added, also make sure the snake doesn't drink the bathwater- that would upset their digestion. Another reason to stay "right there" with the snake.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I'm glad. :gj: Most BPs are pretty tolerant (mellow) anyway. What MOST snakes hate about a "soak" is the loss of traction- you want to keep the water shallow (not higher than their height is); you don't want to force a snake to keep swimming- most will go thru the motions instinctively even in shallow water, but if they can feel some traction- like a rubber mat or even a small towel under them in the water, that helps reduce their stress & panic too. And keeping the water with just a hint of warmth helps too- not cold or too hot.* Use a thermometer to check- don't rely on how it "feels" because our bodies are 98.6*, so to feel "warm" to us means it's too warm for the snake. Water temperature can be very deceptive. And I'm sure you handled him gently thru this- that all helps too. :gj: BTW, with a drop or 2 of soap added, also make sure the snake doesn't drink the bathwater- that would upset their digestion. Another reason to stay "right there" with the snake.

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So, for anyone reading this thread for information, what we ended up doing was hooking a thermostat to a heat pad and programmed it at 80 under his little scrub a dub tub. We didn’t add the soap immediately so he could drink if he wanted to first. And I’m glad we did it like that cause he ended up guzzling some water. His water stayed at a steady 80 when we checked with the heat gun.

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

So, for anyone reading this thread for information, what we ended up doing was hooking a thermostat to a heat pad and programmed it at 80 under his little scrub a dub tub. We didn’t add the soap immediately so he could drink if he wanted to first. And I’m glad we did it like that cause he ended up guzzling some water. His water stayed at a steady 80 when we checked with the heat gun.

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You're a very conscientious owner- your snake won the lottery. ;)

Aw, that’s kind of you. We just love our animals. It’s so important to teach my kids (I have 3) regard for living things. We are one of those catch the bug in the house and let it go outdoors folks. 😂

I’ll keep documenting progress and setbacks as they occur. Hopefully it’ll be useful for someone else along the way.

Geez man. I have cleaned the tank with alcohol and reptile spray 3 times. Noodles has done 3 soaks and I wiped reptile spray on him today. Amazingly with all this, he took a meal. So he’s going to rest a couple days. Not two hours after having some reptile spray on him that sucker had a mite crawling on him.

Am I doing something wrong?

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

Geez man. I have cleaned the tank with alcohol and reptile spray 3 times. Noodles has done 3 soaks and I wiped reptile spray on him today. Amazingly with all this, he took a meal. So he’s going to rest a couple days. Not two hours after having some reptile spray on him that sucker had a mite crawling on him.

Am I doing something wrong?

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No, mites are horrible to get rid of- they get on & off the snake, they hide under scales & in crevices- you have to stay on them for a while, which is why the best advice is not to come home with them in the first place. :(

I could kick myself. I looked him over for mites before we bought him. I guess I missed them.

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

I could kick myself. I looked him over for mites before we bought him. I guess I missed them.

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I know- they're nearly invisible (especially eggs)- so easy to miss, & apparently very prevalent these days. The worst part is that the treatments often prove to be a set-back for the new snake, putting them off eating for a while.

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

Am I doing something wrong?

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Nope. You first posted on 11/2. It can take 2-3 weeks of regular treatments before you stop seeing mites, and then you must continue to treat for another 30 days because that's how long it takes for an egg to hatch. Your mite treatment journey will be ending around Christmas if you do it correctly.

That’s ok I don’t mind the journey. I just wanted to make sure results were typical.

Personally, I would consider contacting the seller to advise him of what you’re dealing with. Not to be critical but to advise him that he needs to triple check all his animals and enclosures. If he denies having a issue with mites , he may want to consider treating prophylactically.

I emailed him a couple days ago to get the age of the snake and told him I’m needed to know for proper mite treatment. I wasn’t sure if he was too young for the reptile spray. I would like to give the benefit of the doubt and just believe it was an unknown issue. But that way it informed him without feeling accusatory.

After tearing down the original cage shortly after his arrival, having to bathe and treat him, etc for mites—I’m noticing an up tick in his “being out” during the day and roaming his cage glass surfing when he should be sleeping.

Am I witnessing a stress response? He has not ceased eating for us, so far.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

I emailed him a couple days ago to get the age of the snake and told him I’m needed to know for proper mite treatment. I wasn’t sure if he was too young for the reptile spray. I would like to give the benefit of the doubt and just believe it was an unknown issue. But that way it informed him without feeling accusatory.

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It is good to refrain from sounding accusatory, if only because it gets people defensive and unwilling to listen to reason.

Personally, though, I'd recommend being very clear in reporting the issue. If it was an unknown issue, the vendor needs to get a lot more serious about their QT procedures (if the mites came to the expo with them) or their biosecurity at expos (if the snake picked them up at the expo).

It is the responsibility of the vendor to take sufficient precautions to avoid such unknown issues, and frankly the vast majority of vendors I've seen (I'm an expo vendor) do not come remotely close to sufficient.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

It is good to refrain from sounding accusatory, if only because it gets people defensive and unwilling to listen to reason.

Personally, though, I'd recommend being very clear in reporting the issue. If it was an unknown issue, the vendor needs to get a lot more serious about their QT procedures (if the mites came to the expo with them) or their biosecurity at expos (if the snake picked them up at the expo).

It is the responsibility of the vendor to take sufficient precautions to avoid such unknown issues, and frankly the vast majority of vendors I've seen (I'm an expo vendor) do not come remotely close to sufficient.

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noted. I’m new to the culture at shows and so I appreciate the advice from a vendor.

So, we have reached the point where we aren’t seeing any further notes actively on him, so we are going to start a 40 day countdown, I think, to continue treatment with the stripped down tank.