Regurgitation?

So there was an issue with my jumpstart thermostat and the hot spot on my bps cage was about 98 when I checked after seeing this. Cool side was still 78. It had an acidic smell that I noticed when I opened the enclosure but wasn’t as bad as it was when my other one regurged back in January. When breaking it apart it seems to be mostly hair, but does not really have the consistency of normal poop. His poop was normal up until this point. This was a whole 5 days after eating his last meal. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...95c168953f.jpg
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I found that in my bp's enclosure once. I even posted about it (Post #10 & 15). My bp was suffering from a large cyst or tumor. I found that in his enclosure and took it with me to my vet appointment, but the vet couldn't tell me what it was.

I would be highly concerned if it were an internal issue like that. I can’t feel any masses in him at all and he’s quite young and 250 grams. Should I make a vet appointment?


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Originally Posted by BallBoa

I would be highly concerned if it were an internal issue like that. I can’t feel any masses in him at all and he’s quite young and 250 grams. Should I make a vet appointment?

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Something stopped your bp from fully digesting it's meal. In my case, it was probably the tumor. Hopefully, the cause in your case is something less dire. Wait and see if anyone else on the forum has experience with this.

The acidic smell* suggests to me that this was a regurgitated "hairball". If your snake seems healthy otherwise, I doubt that a vet can tell you very much, but if you'd feel better asking one, by all means do so. Fecal material, in my experience, always smells, well, like fecal material. ;) *That this odor "wasn't as bad" as a previous regurge is because it's mostly hair, not other undigested content. Nothing reeks like a snake regurge... :rolleyes:

Do you think the temperature spike could have caused it? What should my course of action be? I was going to wait 2 weeks before offering food again and put nutribac in his water.


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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

The acidic smell* suggests to me that this was a regurgitated "hairball".

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I searched the forum for "hairball" and I was surprised at how often this comes up. Doesn't seem to be anything to be concerned about. Apparently, bps cough up hairballs like cats do. You learn something new everyday.

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Originally Posted by BallBoa

Do you think the temperature spike could have caused it? What should my course of action be? I was going to wait 2 weeks before offering food again and put nutribac in his water.


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I wouldn't worry about it- no idea if a temperature spike could promote this, but he's better off without this in his G.I. tract, & it might have proven to be a more problematic blockage if it had left the stomach. (What I'm saying is that he might have ended up "constipated", which is no fun at all.)

I thought more about this so I'm editing > > > Yes, after 2 weeks, I'd go back to feeding him on his regular schedule- & you might also want to feed him smaller prey for the next meal or beyond, for better digestion. For whatever reason (& it seems to be quite rare) but some snakes just don't digest as well as others- I was just remembering one snake I had like that- it was years ago & a long story, but the cause was unknown. Just like us or any other living things, some have issues that others don't.

I would not bother adding Nutribac to a snake's water, as it will be far too diluted to do much (& just be wasted) as he couldn't possibly drink much of it in a day, & if you leave it longer than that dissolved in water, it will help pathogens grow. Personally I'd dose Nutribac by installing it into the oral cavity (mouth) of the dead prey right before feeding. It should be well absorbed this way, since it will be digested with the meal. (When humans take vitamins, they're also best taken with a meal.) ;)

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I searched the forum for "hairball" and I was surprised at how often this comes up. Doesn't seem to be anything to be concerned about. Apparently, bps cough up hairballs like cats do. You learn something new everyday.

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It's common to see a bunch of hair within a snake's stool also- it's just that we don't always look that close...:rolleyes:

I've never dealt with ASF's, that are said to be the normal diet of wild BPs, but I have a hunch that their fur is far less course & thick than the fur of domestic rats- that might be why BPs (or other snakes) seem to have occasional issues with "hairballs"? I do think hairballs are FAR more of a "cat thing" (since they're always licking their fur).

The main concern (IMO) about a snake "coughing up a hairball" is that snake's don't actually cough very well- this was actually a regurgitation, & with any kind of regurge there's always a risk of aspiration into the lungs & of the snake choking to death. Is it possible that domestic rats aren't the ideal food for BPs after all? Domestic mice (which most BPs like) have much thinner hair- they just aren't as large. (for convenient 1-item meals).

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Originally Posted by BallBoa

Do you think the temperature spike could have caused it? What should my course of action be? I was going to wait 2 weeks before offering food again and put nutribac in his water.


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Certainly the temperature spike could have caused it. However , for the most part these reptiles have the ability to thermoregulate and if they are uncomfortable they can move to another area of the enclosure. It’s concerning that this occurred and a reptile vet surely is a consideration. However , I think waiting to feed in 2 weeks is a great strategy. Of course troubleshooting the thermostat is key also. What prey item was that? Consider going with a smaller offering next time will help. Maybe even something hairless? I would use a liquid acidophilus to coat externally the next feed. Acidophilus in its liquid form is easily applied to the feeder.

It was a 30g rat wean. Do you think it might be a good idea to move him over to hairless rats? By acidophilus, do you mean something like this? I’m not sure how concerned I should be about this happening.

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I would hesitate to use probiotics designed for humans on snakes- since we have very different digestive enzymes & I'm not sure that adding the "wrong" probiotics would be harmless. I do NOT know for sure- I'm just urging caution & more research, & I hope someone here has more info on that. I just would NOT assume they'd all be harmless to snakes- & this might be a very good question to ask your herp vet. And at the very least, I'd compare the ingredients to those probiotics sold FOR snakes- there's at least 2 commonly sold (Bene-Bac, & Nutribac). < < < And that's what I'd be buying, personally.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

... I would use a liquid acidophilus to coat externally the next feed. Acidophilus in its liquid form is easily applied to the feeder.

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Have you personally used acidophilus on feeders for snakes?

I can simply use the nutribac if there are potential problems with acidophilus in snakes. I’m not sure how concerned I should be over this, I’ve seen some threads where people don’t seem to think it’s an issue but it’s still a regurgitation.


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Originally Posted by BallBoa

I can simply use the nutribac if there are potential problems with acidophilus in snakes. I’m not sure how concerned I should be over this, I’ve seen some threads where people don’t seem to think it’s an issue but it’s still a regurgitation.


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Yes, it is still a regurgitation- I went back & amended part of my earlier answer, having reconsidered this. He obviously digested most of his prey- all that was left was "the hairball", but with an abundance of caution (since you did experience the sourness smell of a regurge)- I'd at least wait 2 weeks & feed on the smaller side at next meal, just in case his digestive enzymes were at all to blame, or are now a bit lacking after getting rid of "the hairball". Adding digestive enzymes might help some, or might be unnecessary. no way to know- it's your decision. If you already have Nutribac on hand, I would add that, as it won't hurt & may help.

I’m now curious if anyone knows a source where I can buy frozen hairless rats. I would be willing to buy them if it would help him with digestion.


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Originally Posted by BallBoa

I’m now curious if anyone knows a source where I can buy frozen hairless rats. I would be willing to buy them if it would help him with digestion.

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Nope. I checked RodentPro, Big Cheese and Perfect Prey.

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Originally Posted by BallBoa

It was a 30g rat wean. Do you think it might be a good idea to move him over to hairless rats? By acidophilus, do you mean something like this? I’m not sure how concerned I should be about this happening.

Probiotics for Women Men & Kids | Probiotics for Digestive Health | Acidophilus Probiotic | Gut Health & Immune Support Supplement | Vegan | Non-GMO | Gluten Free | 20 Servings https://a.co/d/29D8SJZ


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Sure, Rodentpro has hairless large and extra large mice I believe. You really want to get a handle on the regurgitation so smaller meals is the better way to go. As far as the acidophilus is concerned you do need the one geared for reptiles and you can get that at Beautiful Dragon Rescue online store page. Another source would be Triple L Reptile or LLL REPTILE store page also. Reptile Basics may also carry the acidophilus. After a regurgitation , the intestinal tract loses some of the beneficial bacteria that aids in digestion and the acidophilus replaces it rather quickly. Beautiful Dragon Rescue would be my first choice to look. Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Sure, Rodentpro has hairless large and extra large mice I believe...

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Except this snake is on rats, not mice.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Except this snake is on rats, not mice.

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And it’s ok that the reptile is taking rats as his usual diet. This is a health issue and it’s a rehabilitative approach that’s being taken to get the treatment into the animal that’s needed. It’s a very short term dietary change and probably a one time change and monitor the animal as the OP considers switching to a smaller prey item with less / no fur.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

And it’s ok that the reptile is taking rats as his usual diet. This is a health issue and it’s a rehabilitative approach that’s being taken to get the treatment into the animal that’s needed. It’s a very short term dietary change and probably a one time change and monitor the animal as the OP considers switching to a smaller prey item with less / no fur.

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I was just thinking that with some BPs, they get "stuck" on the prey they prefer, so it can be risky to offer mice if they've been eating rats, & assuming the owner wants to keep them on rats.

If it was a rat snake, or one of many other kinds of snakes, I wouldn't think twice about offering a different kind of hairless rodent, but some BPs will be goofy about it.

Another option: The OP could always shave the rat...you wouldn't have to get all the fur off, just some would likely help.

Looked in his enclosure today and saw this pink spot and also some other small spots that I think are blood. This has me extremely concerned and I am making a vet appointment. I haven’t seen many posts with people talking about bloody pee in ball pythons.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e14a3b9e82.jpg


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Well, we surely hope that it’s not blood. Out of curiosity, has the reptile been dosed with acidophilus? I ask, because it doesn’t look like blood but I do feel a reptile vet is in order and the right thing to do. Has there been any new regurgitation episodes? Or have you not fed him since the initial insult? Also did you go with the hairless large mice at Rodentpro ?

He has not been fed since and I have changed the substrate since as well. It seems like this came out when he peed. It is strange that it appears to be an almost neon pink, but some smaller spots were slightly more red. The only other explanation I could think of is it’s leaked die because one of his fake plants has red leaves. But that’s a bit of a stretch. Here’s another close up photohttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c1f88af73c.jpg


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Ok. Got it. Better safe than sorry for sure. We are all concerned! How soon is the vet visit?

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Originally Posted by BallBoa

Looked in his enclosure today and saw this pink spot and also some other small spots that I think are blood. This has me extremely concerned and I am making a vet appointment. I haven’t seen many posts with people talking about bloody pee in ball pythons.https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...e14a3b9e82.jpg


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That spot is very faintly pink- any chance it came from decor or dyed substrate? It doesn't really look like blood to me. Or from prey? Also, blood exposed to air for any length of time tends to turn brown, so that would have had to be very fresh.

I know how concerning it is to see even just a tinge of blood in a snakes urates or stool. It may possibly indicate that your snake has some gastrointestinal parasites* that need to be medically eliminated, so you can expect your vet to need a fresh stool sample to test for this. (*usually from live prey eaten- even before you got the snake) :gj: to you for realizing something may be going on & not waiting for it to become worse before investigating.

Have you checked your snake's cloaca for signs of irritation? Sometimes when they expel a hard urate "stone" it causes temporary irritation. Also check for prolapses- that IS a serious issue that requires immediate help.

I don’t have a stool sample to test unfortunately. I could take him for a wellness check but the only option past the would be to feed him again and collect the next one I guess. There were some other spots that looked slightly more brown, but this main spot is just bright neon pink, even more so than it looks in the photo. Looking at his cloaca everything seems normal. His weight has gone from 249 to 235 in this same time frame, though he has peed twice.


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This for sure. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What Boger said….

i would take the paper towel also that has the reddish pinkish staining to the vet also. Any stool sample should be double zip lock bagged and refrigerated to go to the vet.

Would it be better to wait until I have a stool sample? That likely won’t be for another 1-2 weeks at least as he won’t be fed until the 26th.


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Originally Posted by BallBoa

Would it be better to wait until I have a stool sample? That likely won’t be for another 1-2 weeks at least as he won’t be fed until the 26th.


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I would go ahead and get the appointment but as you explain your concern to the desk at the vet. Ask them what they require or will need in your specific circumstance. It’s important that you feel comfortable and the situation investigated ASAP.

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Originally Posted by BallBoa

Would it be better to wait until I have a stool sample? That likely won’t be for another 1-2 weeks at least as he won’t be fed until the 26th.


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Snakes don't defecate regularly- on schedule the way dogs & other pets do- so I wouldn't wait- I'm pretty sure they can get a sample anyway (as they do for dogs etc. if you don't bring a sample).

You can mention this though. And for sure, take the material with the pink stain to show them- that's an odd color for blood. Have you tried to get that color (by rubbing with damp paper towel) from other items in enclosure? I sure would- & I hope you find this didn't come from the snake at all.

So it’s possible they can test for parasites without me having to bring in a stool sample? I might be able to get a appointment tomorrow or Saturday.


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Originally Posted by BallBoa

So it’s possible they can test for parasites without me having to bring in a stool sample? I might be able to get a appointment tomorrow or Saturday.


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With dogs (that arrive without a stool sample), they use a swab- & probably can do something similar with snakes, but just ask them. Your vet is experienced with snakes- I hope?

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Originally Posted by BallBoa

So it’s possible they can test for parasites without me having to bring in a stool sample? I might be able to get a appointment tomorrow or Saturday.


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Sure. They have the methodology to test for parasites without the stool sample. It’s a more invasive procedure with a catheter but can be accomplished. But, just ask them to be sure and that you have what’s required by them.

I wonder if they could test that "pink spot" first, to see if it's actually blood? (I'm not sure if it's "enough" of a sample, but there are ways to test for the presence of blood.)

I’ve got it in the fridge and I’ll take it with me. Maybe if she can’t test for it, she’ll just be a lot better at identifying through looking at it if it’s actually blood or not.


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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I wonder if they could test that "pink spot" first, to see if it's actually blood? (I'm not sure if it's "enough" of a sample, but there are ways to test for the presence of blood.)

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I believe there is a reagent liquid that they use similar to a guiac test in humans for the presence of blood. The guiac test does require a stool sample in humans. Testing paper towel is probably done microscopically.

A stool sample is ideal but there's ways to get around it. I watched one of the vets I shadow at my internship insert a cotton swab into a cloaca of a bearded and gently wiggle it around. For some reason it seems to stimulate reptiles to poop, especially after a warm bath. So, I wouldn't worry too much about the stool sample.

Good luck with your little buddy. Keep us updated!

So I took him to the vet and he has since eaten and pooped. She was not concerned about parasites and thought that it may have been just too big of a meal for him. She also didn’t think the paper towel had any blood on it. His most recent poop after eating seemed mostly normal, but slightly less solid than usual and there was a clump of undigested hair in it. Wondering if the undigested hair is an issue.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6cc2d0f6c2.jpg


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IF you're sure he has adequate warmth, & you're sure his rodents aren't too big (try downsizing first & make sure he has adequate time to digest) then maybe his digestion just isn't as good as it should or could be? I've had one snake in the past that had very poor digestion- for whatever reason, hey, it can happen. All snakes aren't perfect any more than all humans are- many or all of us have some weak areas, so if this snake has digestive trouble with thick furred rodents, he might do better being fed mice (not rats), or something else (hairless, maybe) ?