Can you all help me choose between two snakes?

Hi all,
I have been MIA for a little bit. But I wanted to ask ya'll for some help choosing between snakes that I am interested in. I am headed to the Tinley park NARBC this weekend. Gonna pick up a female leopard albino (I love the looks of those). The breeder was going to give me a deal on two. So I went through his list. There are two males available that I am interested in. Both are possible orange dream. But one is vanilla cream and one is super vanilla. I am having a hard time choosing between the two. I kind of like the vanilla cream because he has more contrast. But the super vanilla has a cool pattern. Also was wondering if you all see the orange dream in either. Thanks again. I'll add both the snakes photos in the comments.

This is the vanilla cream possible OD



https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...4-142353_2.png

Here is the super vanilla possible orange dream


https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...4-142338_2.png

I know zip about their genetic potential- but just between the 2 as they are, I personally like the appearance of the vanilla cream better. Sorry, I'm not much help on the OD, hahaha! Wait for the "pros" here, that know the genetics.

The Vanilla cream is very pretty.

Thanks guys. I think they are both pretty. But the contrast is what I like about the vanilla cream better. Like he gave me several choices of the leopard albinos. But most had pastel. The one I picked had no pastel, I like the contrast much better.

Just wanted to show you guys the leopard albino I am picking up. I think she is pretty.


https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...005-203905.png

"Pretty" is an understatement...:cool:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

"Pretty" is an understatement...:cool:

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Thanks, can't wait to see her in person. I have a feeling she will be even better!

I see where you’re saying and letting us know what you like. Even though the other animal pattern is “cool”. I think it’s always important to go with your gut when deciding in a situation like this. It depends also on what your plans are as well. Always go with what interests you and appeals to you and your plans and your heart. Ask the breeder why he’s listing them both as possibles and does he have pictures of the parents. Sometimes the line of a specific gene can be a low expression or presentation. Especially in the presence of other genetic material. Opinions are subjective. The breeder can give you a objective perspective on the genetics because he knows what he bred into the animal. All three of them look amazing!

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

I see where you’re saying and letting us know what you like. Even though the other animal pattern is “cool”. I think it’s always important to go with your gut when deciding in a situation like this. It depends also on what your plans are as well. Always go with what interests you and appeals to you and your plans and your heart. Ask the breeder why he’s listing them both as possibles and does he have pictures of the parents. Sometimes the line of a specific gene can be a low expression or presentation. Especially in the presence of other genetic material. Opinions are subjective. The breeder can give you a objective perspective on the genetics because he knows what he bred into the animal. All three of them look amazing!

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I understand what you are saying. Most people tell me to go with what I like. I was just asking to see what other thought since I kind of was torn between the two. The breeder hadn't gotten back to me yet today. But I asked him if maybe he could bring both to the show so I can see the snakes in person. Sometimes that makes a decision better. If the snake I like is extremely nippy and uncomfortable, and the one I wasn't go to choose has a good demeanor and seems more comfortable being handled, I may choose the other. Also, being an amateur photographer, I know colors don't always come out as they look in person. So hopefully I can pick at the show I person. We will see what the breeder says.
Thank You for your input. I probably with ask him about the orange dream thing in person.

I think the Super Vanilla likely has OD with as heavy as the blushing is. Vanilla Cream already have strong blushing, so that one is a bit more of a toss up.

They are both really nice looking. Really depends if these are for pets, or breeding and if breeding what kind of projects you are interested in. If it were me, I'd probably go with Super Vanilla for breeding because it's an easier ID and consistent on OS, plus Vanilla is a little more rare than Fire.

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

I think the Super Vanilla likely has OD with as heavy as the blushing is. Vanilla Cream already have strong blushing, so that one is a bit more of a toss up.

They are both really nice looking. Really depends if these are for pets, or breeding and if breeding what kind of projects you are interested in. If it were me, I'd probably go with Super Vanilla for breeding because it's an easier ID and consistent on OS, plus Vanilla is a little more rare than Fire.

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Cool,. Thank you for your opinion and insight. I am interested in the breeding aspect of the snakes, but that would be in the future. I as of right now, have no fire, vanilla or orange dream in my collection. Figured having a snake with all three jeans is pretty cool to add. Our future breeding interests are pieds, albinos and we like anything with pinstripe in it. Not sure where these guys would fit in but I find them beautiful either way. So for pet or breeding I would be happy with them. If it were you and you got the super vanilla, what would you breed it with? Just curious? I am learning the genetic stuff, getting that hang of it takes time, I get it. Lol. Thanks again for your response.

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Originally Posted by JJpeep

If it were you and you got the super vanilla, what would you breed it with?

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I think Vanilla would be really nice to work into an Axanthic project, but I wouldn't put him straight to an Axanthic female. I'd try to stack up some other morphs and get an even nicer one to put to an Axanthic in hopes of some really nice combo + hets to go to town with. If OD proves out, even better.

Check out this Enchi OD Vanilla Axanthic from MM how nice it helps Enchi clean up the colors and pattern:
https://d20zyr0oabjxc2.cloudfront.ne...D0170704A2B514

Another thing I might do is is try it out with Pastel and some of the morphs that cause really unique patterns like Hurricane, Leopard, etc.

Here is a Leopard Vanilla Cream from MM:
https://d20zyr0oabjxc2.cloudfront.ne...7FD60C24472DE3

and Butter Leopard Pastel Stranger Vanilla from MM:
https://d20zyr0oabjxc2.cloudfront.ne...4CF3F0EF1DB678

Awe Wow!!! Those are awesome. I have a pastel double het pied and clown, but he is a boy. I have a female pastel that is het clown, but we have to prove her out with a clown. I have a female pastel butter yellow belly that I was going to pair with a banana cinnamon butter plus she is a lot older than this little vanilla would be.
I actually love all of your suggestions. I think I will keep an eye out for a female at the show that has some of those morphs.

I really like the Axanthic route. Axanthic is one morph my eyes always gravitate to when I see a bunch of snakes at a show. So that is something that I would be interested in. So you think a certain line of Axanthic would work the best? I like the VPI's but I would appreciate any I think. I also like the way the leopard looks with the vanilla cream too. That is an awesome looking combo. Thanks for the suggestions!!!

You're welcome!

As far as Axanthic goes, VPI tends to hold the most popularity and so it's going to be the easiest to get more variety of existing combos in, less groundwork to make a lot of combos. I really like JDC's line of TSK Axanthic because he has put so much work in to clean up the colors, and that's the line I'm personally into for that reason, less groundwork to get gorgeous B&W snakes without the subtle hints of warm tones. The other lines I don't have as much knowledge about.

Whelp, the breeder ended up not bringing the snakes that I talked to him about. I actually had a feeling I emailed him too late and he didn't get the email before packing for Tinley. But I did end up buying a pair of Toffinos from him. I have been really wanting Toffinos for awhile. I really like them for some reason. I think they are just so pretty. That baby glow they have too. Just so cool. I have to get photos of the. Before they start to change. I also picked up a leopard blast female and a black pastel male from another breeder. I know they aren't loaded with genes, but leopard and black pastel is something knew for my small collection. I really like the idea of having a vanilla still. I think I still may have that super vanilla male you all helped me with, shipped out before the weather gets terrible.

I would go with the OD Vanilla Cream. Its one more gene.

Same benefits of having a Super, since every baby gets a Vanilla OR Fire gene.
Then you have Fire to incorporate in any future projects.
And then you can make your own Super Vanillas in the future if you want.

Good luck!

ooops, i didnt see the second page.

Toffino's are amazing. and you got a pair?
then you can make Toffee's.. those are even better.
and that clutch can produce Toffee's, Toffino's & Albino's.

BP's dont need to be stacked with genes.
Buy what you like if thats your goal!
it all depends on your goals and how the genes work together. buy the best QUALITY genes you're looking for, and also look around. you may find a better quality animal with an extra gene for the same price.

best of luck!

Thank you. Actually I still am into getting the vanillas from the breeder. So your input is considered. I really love the Toffinos. They are cool.