Can Bioactive Setups be Successful with Fake Plants?

Hello,

I have a BP that's a few years old. I thought it would be cool to set up a bioactive terrarium, but I'm mostly interested in the extra protection from the cleanup-crew against mold, fungus, etc. My problem: I've never taken care of a plant before and I don't really care to, so I was wondering if anyone has had success using artificial plants in a tropical bioactive setup.

Also, for substrate I was planning on using the BioDude's Terra Firma, which says it does not require a drainage layer. Is this still true if I were to use artificial plants? I imagine live plants wouldn't be sucking that much water out of the soil, but as I said, I don't really know anything about plants... It may be worth noting I use a CHE which tends to reduce humidity and moisture anyhow (I mist regularly and keep hygrometers, don't worry!).

If anyone has experience doing this and has any tips for keeping the tank alive (well, aside from the plants), please do share.

I keep one ball python (for almost 15 years) the traditional basic way -- coco chip substrate, some cork and plastic hides, a water bowl. I've not had mold in his enclosure (PVC with an RHP) once during that time. Simple cleaning (not even that frequently) is all that is necessary to avoid it.

I keep about 15 "bioactive" vivs for frogs. Most of them have some fungus much of the time; one grows a crop of mushrooms reliably every two weeks or so (they're neat). Fungus is an inherent part of bioactivity (if all the fungus on earth were to die, there would be no bioactivity at all; we'd all die too within a couple years from starvation).

The best protection against fungus in my experience is to moderate moisture levels (easy in a ball python enclosure, since the substrate can be basically dry so long as there is evaporating water to keep humidity at a decent level, and a moist hide box for the snake to go during shedding). Some substrates mold for no reason at all (Eco Earth style coco fiber does this bad), so swapping substrates might be a solution. Sounds like perhaps you're adding too much water in order to make up for shortcomings in enclosure design (just something to consider -- not intended as criticism or accusation).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I keep one ball python (for almost 15 years) the traditional basic way -- coco chip substrate, some cork and plastic hides, a water bowl. I've not had mold in his enclosure (PVC with an RHP) once during that time. Simple cleaning (not even that frequently) is all that is necessary to avoid it.

I keep about 15 "bioactive" vivs for frogs. Most of them have some fungus much of the time; one grows a crop of mushrooms reliably every two weeks or so (they're neat). Fungus is an inherent part of bioactivity (if all the fungus on earth were to die, there would be no bioactivity at all; we'd all die too within a couple years from starvation).

The best protection against fungus in my experience is to moderate moisture levels (easy in a ball python enclosure, since the substrate can be basically dry so long as there is evaporating water to keep humidity at a decent level, and a moist hide box for the snake to go during shedding). Some substrates mold for no reason at all (Eco Earth style coco fiber does this bad), so swapping substrates might be a solution. Sounds like perhaps you're adding too much water in order to make up for shortcomings in enclosure design (just something to consider -- not intended as criticism or accusation).

---

I'm actually not having any problems with mold or fungus haha!

I should also mention I like bioactive setups for the fact that you apparently don't have to change out the substrate but once every year-to-a few years. But I suppose that might not be the case, if you're reporting fungus growth in yours?

I don't really need to go bioactive, I just think it would be cool, and I would save some money on substrate (supposedly!)

@BonnieBallPython- I might be wrong about this (I don't do bio-active) but from reading about it, I thought that the waste from a larger snake such as a ball python was more than a bio-active set-up can process- and that you'll still need to do clean-ups, so I hope you're on the right track with this? That's with or without the question about plants. :confusd:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

@BonnieBallPython- I might be wrong about this (I don't do bio-active) but from reading about it, I thought that the waste from a larger snake such as a ball python was more than a bio-active set-up can process- and that you'll still need to do clean-ups, so I hope you're on the right track with this? That's with or without the question about plants. :confusd:

---

As I understand it would be more of a question of spot-cleaning? My snake's shed usually comes out in one piece and she seems to pass waste easily. I would expect to spot-clean and rely on the cleanup-crew to take care of any bits I might not see. Again, I would be interested in being able to keep the substrate for a while without changing it out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BonnieBallPython

I'm actually not having any problems with mold or fungus haha!

I should also mention I like bioactive setups for the fact that you apparently don't have to change out the substrate but once every year-to-a few years. But I suppose that might not be the case, if you're reporting fungus growth in yours?

I don't really need to go bioactive, I just think it would be cool, and I would save some money on substrate (supposedly!)

---

The way dart frogs are kept (which other circles have imported as "Bioactive", often nonsensically and sometimes to the detriment of the species being kept) is primarily (a) to provide a supplementary food source for the frogs, some species of which forage pretty frequently, and (b) to eliminate substrate changes. On that last part, this is because many dart species don't tolerate major cleanings; they're 3/4" animals that travel about Mach 4 when startled, and they lay eggs in the top substrate layer (leaf litter). Major viv upheavals like swapping out substrate can and does kill frogs/tads/eggs. It isn't because it is simpler -- much to the contrary, if there were a simpler way than "bioactive" to get the same results a keeper would be crazy not to use it. The substrates we use (not sure about stuff that the BioDude peddles; I would be somewhat skeptical) last from ten years to forever.

Fungus growth in a dart frog enclosure doesn't indicate the need for a substrate swap (that wouldn't reduce the fungus anyway; fungus grows where it is happy, including on new damp substrate) since the fungus growth isn't due to excess waste build up, but is rather part of the bioactive process. There are literally a couple grams of animal in each cubic foot of enclosure, and the enclosure is flushed daily with copious amounts of water that leave through a bulkhead drain carrying away dissolved waste. Note that in these enclosures the plant growth is a part of the waste processing cycle. The microfauna do process some of the waste, although it is understood that much of what they eat is the fungal growth that occurs on animal waste and other decomposing material.

This is quite different from a typical ball python enclosure, which has at least a hundred times the animal mass per cubic foot of an animal that defecates infrequently but generously, and the enclosure isn't flushed with water. This would make the waste production very unlikely to be processed at all efficiently (isopods need many months to ramp up populations) and in such an enclosure substrate replacement would be necessary whether there were microfauna present or not.

At any rate, there isn't anything special about "bioactive" substrate if a person just wants some isopods and springtails. They'll live in a range of damp substrates, more damp than I keep my ball. Whether the ones they prefer would be ideal for a ball python is a different question. I keep some in gecko vivs that use Jungle Mix and some leaf litter, and they seem to do OK until they get eaten.

Keep in mind that isopods cannot legally or with any degree of environmental responsibility be released anywhere in the US without a permit (which USDA is unlikely to issue; isopods are invasive), so using them complicates substrate disposal (you can't compost it, for example). Freezing or fully drying the substrate, then double bagging and putting in the trash, is generally thought acceptable.

So for isopods & springtails with one BP, it would literally be "feast or famine"? Doesn't sound practical to me- & especially not the disposal issues- I hadn't realized that, thanks Malum Argenteum, for yet another great explanation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

So for isopods & springtails with one BP, it would literally be "feast or famine"? Doesn't sound practical to me- & especially not the disposal issues- I hadn't realized that, thanks Malum Argenteum, for yet another great explanation.

---

Well, feast or famine to a point. Isopods will eat lots of stuff -- leaves, hardscape (this isn't good unless you want your wood pieces sanded down), bits out of some substrates probably. But their reproductive cycles are pretty slow, at least compared to springtails which can go from standby to overwhelming in a week or two with good conditions and food supply.

Yeah, the disposal issues are a problem, and regulations regarding isopods aren't widely followed. Many online isopod sellers aren't properly permitted to ship across state lines, which isn't cool. The "bug" (insects and arthropods) side of the exotics hobby is almost certainly the one that violates the most laws (USDA regulations, which are covered by Lacey) regarding possession, transport and "importation".

Yeah somewhere along the way the term "bioactive" seems to get confused for "add cleanup crew and never clean the enclosure", the whole cycle isn't going to work unless you have all the elements there. Without plant material (particularly decomposing plant material) and fungus, the isopods won't have anything to eat, and the issue with snake waste has already been mentioned. Isopods and springtails also breathe through gills, so they need to be kept in quite damp substrate to survive - if it dries out they'll all die.

eta: without plants and other rotting material you'd need to be feeding the isopods, and they prefer to ignore things like apples and carrots until they're actively decomposing, which would mean the snake is in there hanging out with rotting food. My isopod-only enclosure is honestly pretty gross, I wouldn't want to expose other critters to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Keep in mind that isopods cannot legally or with any degree of environmental responsibility be released anywhere in the US without a permit (which USDA is unlikely to issue; isopods are invasive), so using them complicates substrate disposal (you can't compost it, for example). Freezing or fully drying the substrate, then double bagging and putting in the trash, is generally thought acceptable.

---

This is a good note about the pods I wasn't aware of, thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

...Keep in mind that isopods cannot legally or with any degree of environmental responsibility be released anywhere in the US without a permit (which USDA is unlikely to issue; isopods are invasive), so using them complicates substrate disposal (you can't compost it, for example). Freezing or fully drying the substrate, then double bagging and putting in the trash, is generally thought acceptable.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by plateOfFlan

This is a good note about the pods I wasn't aware of, thanks!

---

See, I wasn't either- I've never seriously considered bio-active enclosures, but I never realized these "little critters" weren't native & that they're invasive, etc.

Some species are native, many are introduced and naturalized. Many more are not naturalized and not listed on the 'approved' list of isopods that USDA gives out easy permits for (I'm permitted for shipment to many states, though not to FL since their requirements are quite a bit more stringent). Here's the 'approved' list that is relatively straightforward to get permits for:

Armadillidium klugii
Armadillidium maculatum
Armadillidium nasatum
Armadillidium vulgare
Atlantoscia floridiana
Cylisticus convexus
Cubaris murina
Oniscus asellus
Porcellio dilatatus
Porcellio laevis
Porcellio scaber
Porcellio spinicornis
Porcellionides floria
Porcellionides pruinosus
Porcellionides virgatus
Rhyscotus texensis
Trachelipus rathkii
Trichoniscus pusillus
Trichorina tomentosa
Venezillo parvus

Others may be issued permits, but they're likely to require inspected containment facilities (which I don't have).

On a similar note, all the non-native mantids currently in vogue are being traded illegally. I checked with the USDA permit person to confirm this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by plateOfFlan

Yeah somewhere along the way the term "bioactive" seems to get confused for "add cleanup crew and never clean the enclosure", the whole cycle isn't going to work unless you have all the elements there. Without plant material (particularly decomposing plant material) and fungus, the isopods won't have anything to eat, and the issue with snake waste has already been mentioned. Isopods and springtails also breathe through gills, so they need to be kept in quite damp substrate to survive - if it dries out they'll all die.

eta: without plants and other rotting material you'd need to be feeding the isopods, and they prefer to ignore things like apples and carrots until they're actively decomposing, which would mean the snake is in there hanging out with rotting food. My isopod-only enclosure is honestly pretty gross, I wouldn't want to expose other critters to it.

---

Couldn't I purchase dead leaves online for the isopods? I figured this was necessary even with live plants. What other rotting material do people use in bioactive BP enclosures?

Also, the Terra Firma substrate says it's supposed to stay dry on the top and moist on the middle and bottom layers. Surely the crew would be able to breathe then?

What would be the implications of using artificial plants as opposed to live ones?

To be clear, I'm not totally unwilling to get some live plants. I'm just not a plant person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BonnieBallPython

What other rotting material do people use in bioactive BP enclosures?

---

i think you'll find everything you need under the "biodegradeables" section on the biodude's website (although you could find this stuff anywhere)- stuff like sphagnum moss, bark pieces, and seed pods will all be broken down over time by isopods. i always find my isopods flocking under cork bark. :)

https://www.thebiodude.com/collectio...le-leaf-litter
https://www.thebiodude.com/collections/seed-nut-pods

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blisterbeetle

i think you'll find everything you need under the "biodegradeables" section on the biodude's website (although you could find this stuff anywhere)- stuff like sphagnum moss, bark pieces, and seed pods will all be broken down over time by isopods. i always find my isopods flocking under cork bark. :)

https://www.thebiodude.com/collectio...le-leaf-litter
https://www.thebiodude.com/collections/seed-nut-pods

---

I currently have some dead leaves, sphag moss, and seed pods sitting in a box already. Good to know I got that part right. The link is helpful too, thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by plateOfFlan

Yeah somewhere along the way the term "bioactive" seems to get confused for "add cleanup crew and never clean the enclosure", the whole cycle isn't going to work unless you have all the elements there. Without plant material (particularly decomposing plant material) and fungus, the isopods won't have anything to eat, and the issue with snake waste has already been mentioned. Isopods and springtails also breathe through gills, so they need to be kept in quite damp substrate to survive - if it dries out they'll all die.

eta: without plants and other rotting material you'd need to be feeding the isopods, and they prefer to ignore things like apples and carrots until they're actively decomposing, which would mean the snake is in there hanging out with rotting food. My isopod-only enclosure is honestly pretty gross, I wouldn't want to expose other critters to it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BonnieBallPython

Couldn't I purchase dead leaves online for the isopods? I figured this was necessary even with live plants. What other rotting material do people use in bioactive BP enclosures?

Also, the Terra Firma substrate says it's supposed to stay dry on the top and moist on the middle and bottom layers. Surely the crew would be able to breathe then?

What would be the implications of using artificial plants as opposed to live ones?

To be clear, I'm not totally unwilling to get some live plants. I'm just not a plant person.

---

Another thought: could I stick some bamboo stocks in the soil to substitute live plants? In addition to the other biodegradables like dead leaves etc.

Thanks for your previous responses, by the way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BonnieBallPython

Another thought: could I stick some bamboo stocks in the soil to substitute live plants? In addition to the other biodegradables like dead leaves etc.

---

you could use bamboo stocks as another biodegradable, but i wouldn't use them as a replacement for live plants. if you do end up going the bioactive route, i'd make sure to get the hardiest and sturdiest plants you can- ball pythons are heavy and will bulldoze plants. you could also use a mix of live and fake plants. it's also necessary to let your plants establish (root) for at least a month or so before adding any inhabitants (other than your isopods/springtails) so they won't be uprooted immediately.

the chances are until you have an established population of isopods and springtails you will have to clean up your snake's feces.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BonnieBallPython

Another thought: could I stick some bamboo stocks in the soil to substitute live plants?...

---

Might want to use bamboo sticks to surround, support & protect any live plants? As noted by blisterbeetle, BPs & many other snakes are good at bulldozing them. :snake:

It is worth mentioning that many people (including me) keep isopods as decorative animals in their own enclosure. This can be as simple as a 6qt plastic box, a clear Critter Keeper (I use both of these), a small fish tank or ExoTerra, or some sort of repurposed decorative glass vessel. They're a lot of fun to keep this way, and it would eliminate both the routine disposal worry/hassles and modifications of another animal's enclosure for the purposes of what is looking to be pretty close to cohabitation.

Just a thought.