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Stargazing? Poorly ball python
A few weeks ago I bought a young ball python, when I went to collect him/her I noticed quite a bit of stuck she on its head, the snake was not being kept in the correct conditions. Was kept on Aspen in a tiny tub and was being fed small mice. Being the soppy git that I am I bought it and took it home as I felt sorry for it. It was obviously underweight for its age and was being fed tiny prey. He/she has taken one feed in the last 4 weeks (a large mouse) I have tried rat pups but had no luck. The snakes movements have been a bit odd since I got him, he dork screws a little and hold his head at weird positions, it has been making a few clicking noises but I think that’s due to stuck shed on its nostrils and mouth. I have removed the stuck eye caps and today have managed to get off quite a bit of the shed around its mouth. My main concern is that when I open its tub (in a rack) he has his nose pointing up almost gazing into air, he has been doing this for a few days. When I take him out he puts his head in the air which his head back and just sits like that until I move him. I have tried placing him on his back to se if he corrects himself, sometimes he does and other times he stays still until I touch him then he will roll over.
I am worried that he is stargazing and may have IBD? I have moved him/her away from my other snakes (upstairs) but I am unable to get him/her to a vet. My nearest reptile vet is a hour and a half drive away and the vet is only there 2 days a week 😬. Could the stargazing just be due to the conditions he was kept in? Could it be related to the stuck shed around his mouth?
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Is the baby a morph like champagne, spider or woma?
It most likely isn't due to the shed. It can be due to parasites or chronic malnourishment. But IBD is still possible as well...
If the baby does have a respiratory infection, that could also be a cause as they will sometimes hold their heads up to help the breathe.... But not usually to the point where it can be considered star gazing.
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Re: Stargazing? Poorly ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armiyana
Is the baby a morph like champagne, spider or woma?
It most likely isn't due to the shed. It can be due to parasites or chronic malnourishment. But IBD is still possible as well...
If the baby does have a respiratory infection, that could also be a cause as they will sometimes hold their heads up to help the breathe.... But not usually to the point where it can be considered star gazing.
No, he doesn’t have any of the wobble morphs in him that I know of though his markings make me think he has something else hidden in him. There’s no mucus or anything, just the clicking sounds due to the blocked nostrils. I will add a couple photos of when I was bathing him earlier, the position he is sat in is how he sits in his rub.
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Re: Stargazing? Poorly ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banjoballs12
... I have moved him/her away from my other snakes (upstairs) but I am unable to get him/her to a vet. My nearest reptile vet is a hour and a half drive away and the vet is only there 2 days a week ��. Could the stargazing just be due to the conditions he was kept in? Could it be related to the stuck shed around his mouth?
This snake should NEVER have been near your other snakes for even a moment, okay? Quarantine ALL new snakes- you never know what they may have that all your other :snake:s can catch & die from.
Agree with Armiyana's post- IBD or RI are all possibilities, as is just poor health (weak) & genetic issues. Also, many snakes are fascinated by the new scents in the air, so they'll naturally want to stick their nose in the air. I'd re-assess his balance (ability to right himself) in the future, as so far your results were inconclusive. I know how hard it is not to rescue snakes in bad shape when you see them, but it sounds like you took on quite a lot- especially without a good herp vet closer to you- this was perhaps not a good idea. (He's pretty though...I understand your temptation- I do.)
With an underfed snake, I'd not have fed a "large mouse" as that's harder for the snake to digest, so you risked a regurgitation which would have been a huge set-back. Remember that no matter how badly you want to feed a starving snake, it's best to go slow- their digestive enzymes will likely be in short supply due to malnutrition, so they'll have trouble digesting the larger mouse you couldn't resist feeding him. Large mice (as in older breeders) are also very fatty, which again takes longer to digest- it would have been better to have this snake eating frequent smaller meals for quite some time. Growth- & rebuilding a thin snake takes time. And hydration is essential too- if a snake is dehydrated (as this one seems to be based on your description) that also makes digestion difficult. So remember to go slow- it just works better & pays off in the long run. ;) I hope it turns out to be nothing serious.
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Re: Stargazing? Poorly ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banjoballs12
I see a snake periscoping not stargazing.
If you put the snake on its back can it right itself quickly?
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Judging by those two pics, it looks overweight, not underweight. Sometimes that can be hard to judge from a pic or two because of how they tense up being bothered, but there are a few indications like the way the skin is folding where it bends, space between scales, and the way the skin wraps the spine.
The upper jaw looks either deformed or like it is quite swollen. Going so long with stuck shed could have caused pretty serious problems that really need (very experienced) reptile vet intervention. Stuck shed can block up tear ducts and nasal passage to the point that bad infections in the mouth and jaw can occur. I would recommend trying to get a look inside the mouth for signs of URI, mouth rot, and so on *if* you know how to do it without damaging them.
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Re: Stargazing? Poorly ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkubus
Judging by those two pics, it looks overweight, not underweight. Sometimes that can be hard to judge from a pic or two because of how they tense up being bothered, but there are a few indications like the way the skin is folding where it bends, space between scales, and the way the skin wraps the spine.
The upper jaw looks either deformed or like it is quite swollen. Going so long with stuck shed could have caused pretty serious problems that really need (very experienced) reptile vet intervention. Stuck shed can block up tear ducts and nasal passage to the point that bad infections in the mouth and jaw can occur. I would recommend trying to get a look inside the mouth for signs of URI, mouth rot, and so on *if* you know how to do it without damaging them.
I thought something about the jaw/face looked "off"- I'm so glad you said something, nikkubus.
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Definitely not a stargazing posture to me. That's just a curious baby being goofy or begging for more food. Periscoping like this is common when they're hungry or smell something interesting. Or even just to get a lay of the land at times.
If this had been with open mouth or bubbling that is a more serious issue, but not the case here. I think the swollen look on the front of the nose may be contributing to the clicking or whistling sounds.
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Re: Stargazing? Poorly ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkubus
Judging by those two pics, it looks overweight, not underweight. Sometimes that can be hard to judge from a pic or two because of how they tense up being bothered, but there are a few indications like the way the skin is folding where it bends, space between scales, and the way the skin wraps the spine.
The upper jaw looks either deformed or like it is quite swollen. Going so long with stuck shed could have caused pretty serious problems that really need (very experienced) reptile vet intervention. Stuck shed can block up tear ducts and nasal passage to the point that bad infections in the mouth and jaw can occur. I would recommend trying to get a look inside the mouth for signs of URI, mouth rot, and so on *if* you know how to do it without damaging them.
I wouldn’t say he’s overweight, I think it’s probably just the way the photo is taken, my phone isn’t great for photos. Most of the shed is now off, I have checked in his mouth and there’s no sign of a RI or mouth rot. To me he looks slightly underweight, I have 13 other pythons who are all a healthy weight but this one seems slimmer though not drastically underweight. The person I got him from was a first time breeder and inexperienced, they had one of his siblings which was being assist fed, both were kept in tiny tubs with aspen and a water bowl, no hide as there wasn’t room. I had been keeping him my rack which doesn’t have much else in so not in close contact to my other snakes but close enough for me to worry 😬, the tubs in my new rack are black and I’m wondering if he didn’t like the lack of light in there? He’s now in a clear tub in my room and no longer has his nose pointing upwards, he’s actually gone into a hide for the first time in a few days. He had literally been in the position in my photos for 3 days. I only removed the majority of the shed last night after lots of soaking and rubbing a cotton bud over his face for ages.
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In the photo the shed was half off and rolled over his nose (I was still working on it) which maybe why his face/jaw looks swollen? I will leave him alone for a few days now as he seems much more settled in his new tub.
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Re: Stargazing? Poorly ball python
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banjoballs12
I wouldn’t say he’s overweight, I think it’s probably just the way the photo is taken, my phone isn’t great for photos. Most of the shed is now off, I have checked in his mouth and there’s no sign of a RI or mouth rot. To me he looks slightly underweight, I have 13 other pythons who are all a healthy weight but this one seems slimmer though not drastically underweight. The person I got him from was a first time breeder and inexperienced, they had one of his siblings which was being assist fed, both were kept in tiny tubs with aspen and a water bowl, no hide as there wasn’t room. I had been keeping him my rack which doesn’t have much else in so not in close contact to my other snakes but close enough for me to worry 😬, the tubs in my new rack are black and I’m wondering if he didn’t like the lack of light in there? He’s now in a clear tub in my room and no longer has his nose pointing upwards, he’s actually gone into a hide for the first time in a few days. He had literally been in the position in my photos for 3 days. I only removed the majority of the shed last night after lots of soaking and rubbing a cotton bud over his face for ages.
I do not think he's underweight either.
I want to mention the following for the OPs benefit and also the benefit of those reading.
First, not advisable to by from first time breeders, especially when the conditions they are keeping them in and the way they are treating them is less than stellar. It can lead to issues for you, the snake(s) in question, and also put at risk your entire collection.
This leads me to Quarantine.
For those unfamiliar, proper quarantine is as follows:
1. Separate room when at all possible. If that is not possible, as far away from other reptiles as possible. For example, a large finished basement, would have 1 side Quarantined animal and the other side other animals. Again, ideally a separate room, floor, and when possible, separate ventilation system.
2. Paper substrate
3. Fed last, handled last (handling should be at a minimum in quarantine), cleaned last, etc. If you do touch the reptile in quarantine and have to go back to the established reptiles, that should be done after changing or washing clothes, washing hands, and preferably body.
4. Separate tongs, bowls, hides, etc. At no point should anything that touched a quarantined animal ever touch an established one without sterilization at best.
5. Quarantine should last 90 days. If any issues come up it's 90 days from then. If you get another animal during that period (not advisable) the 90 days starts again.
6. Stool sample at minimum recommended to be run (mail in or by vet) if any concerns come up during the quarantine.
7. If it's wild caught specimen, you are unsure, or you want to be extra careful, 180 days minimum quarantine.
If I missed anything, please add. I've written this quite a few times before, but that doesn't make me immune to mistakes.
The important thing here, for those reading, is that the OP gives us an opportunity to revisit proper quarantine and to understand the importance. Just because everything seems okay now, doesn't mean it will end up that way.
OP, I wish you luck. I would encourage you to properly quarantine now and to do so with any future additions.
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I think as an addon to #7: fecal testing is required if you are unsure on if an animal is wild caught. Wild caught animals can exist with a parasite or bacterial load that can affect your other animals in entirely different ways.
I would even go so far as to treat with a antiparasitic as a precaution immediately after taking a fecal sample. Antibiotics are a bit more harsh and I would wait on a fecal culture there.
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