Odd BP behavior

Or is it?

So I have had a female regular ball for 7 weeks. She’s amazing, friendly, eats well etc.

40 gallon glass exoterra tank.
Tops are covered in foil.
CHE and UTH - both on thermostats

Cool side: 77/60%
Hot side: 83/55%

Substrate with heat gun: 83-88 depending on where I pint it.

Both sides covered in black. Back in styrofoam.

Substrate is reptisoil & chip

Change water every 2 days and spit clean. Change tank every 6 weeks.

Feed her a hopper. She is 4-5 months old. They said she was 2-3 months when I got her.

She has shed 1x perfectly since having her.

She was hiding on Both sides, moving at night, etc. Her enclosure has 2 hides, 3 bushes, huge tree shaped log in middle, stick to climb on and bask if needed etc. Tons to hide and much clutter.

Lately at night she hides or moves around which is normal. But every morning for 2-3 hrs she glass climbs all over. Up the glass, down, sideways etc. She’s not scratching and doesn’t have mites.

Local keeper says it’s normal or she may be hungry but I fed her Monday.

Is it normal?
Should I increase to small mouse?

Nothing has changed in the tank so it’s just odd. She’s hiding less during the day so it seems way off but can’t figure out why.

Or am I over thinking all this and she’s just exploring and still getting used to enclosure.

Help lol.

I vote overthinking. Pics would help us identify anything that may be bothering her that you're not seeing. You can find instruction on posting pics here.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I vote overthinking. Pics would help us identify anything that may be bothering her that you're not seeing. You can find instruction on posting pics here.

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I was thinking that. She’s got everything dialed in and nothing has changed. I spoke to a few keepers here and they all said nothing she’s just exploring or maybe try larger mouse next feeding. She could want more food.

They said just handle her less right now, keep an eye out for anything else.

I will post pics in a few.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...664fb620a3.jpg

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Originally Posted by Harri

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...664fb620a3.jpg

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She does this all the way up, then down, moves across the bottom glass, then up down and around. So far all morning, no hiding.

If you're able to, I would try to get some pics of entire enclosure, that way we can see the whole thing and look for any potential signs or things that would help better understand what's going on. :)

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Originally Posted by Harri

But every morning for 2-3 hrs she glass climbs all over. Up the glass, down, sideways etc.

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For how long has she been doing this?

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Originally Posted by Homebody

For how long has she been doing this?

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About a week. I fed her Monday, day early as I thought she was super hungry. She hid for maybe 24hrs (which usually it’s 3 days) then out, no buldge - seemed digested and back at the glass lol.

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Originally Posted by SS snakes

If you're able to, I would try to get some pics of entire enclosure, that way we can see the whole thing and look for any potential signs or things that would help better understand what's going on. :)

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Will do in about an hr I will post em

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b6783e088e.jpg
Cool and warm hide, water, bushes, log, stick etc . She’s hiding behind the hot hide right now, not in it - R side looking at this.

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Originally Posted by Harri

About a week. I fed her Monday, day early as I thought she was super hungry. She hid for maybe 24hrs (which usually it’s 3 days) then out, no buldge - seemed digested and back at the glass lol.

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Two to three hours of daytime surfing everyday for a week indicates to me that she's wanting something. My first guess would be food. My BP was an adult so I don't have any experience adjusting sizes, but I know they're fed hoppers as babies so it's probably time to size up. Get a weight on her and consult any of the numerous ball python feeding charts on the net to see what you should be feeding her.

It's probably unrelated, but I wonder how effective your UTH is through that much substrate. It looks like you've go two or three inches there. You've either got it running too hot or it's not doing anything.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Two to three hours of daytime surfing everyday for a week indicates to me that she's wanting something. My first guess would be food. My BP was an adult so I don't have any experience adjusting sizes, but I know they're fed hoppers as babies so it's probably time to size up. Get a weight on her and consult any of the numerous ball python feeding charts on the net to see what you should be feeding her.

It's probably unrelated, but I wonder how effective your UTH is through that much substrate. It looks like you've go two or three inches there. You've either got it running too hot or it's not doing anything.

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Feeding: That’s what everyone keeps saying. I might try small mouse if rat.

Substrate: I have the UTH set on thermostat to 94. Which with heat gun registers at 84. So I don’t think it’s too hot. Do you?

I mean if it was too hot she would be on the cool side or in water, which she isn’t. She’s chillin on hot side.

Now I was thinking …
Probe is under mat under the tank. Is that good? Or should it be in the tank under substrate?

Also, YTuber (Green room pythons) says put UTH to 90, with no substrate in hide. Was thinking of that. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Harri

Feeding: That’s what everyone keeps saying. I might try small mouse if rat.

Substrate: I have the UTH set on thermostat to 94. Which with heat gun registers at 84. So I don’t think it’s too hot. Do you?

I mean if it was too hot she would be on the cool side or in water, which she isn’t. She’s chillin on hot side.

Now I was thinking …
Probe is under mat under the tank. Is that good? Or should it be in the tank under substrate?

Also, YTuber (Green room pythons) says put UTH to 90, with no substrate in hide. Was thinking of that. Thoughts?

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Your UTH thermostat is too high. Follow Green room pythons recommendation to set the UTH to 90 and remove the substrate in the hide. As you have it, if your BP burrows under the substrate it could get burned.

That said, you're BP hasn't burrowed under the substrate, so I don't think that's causing the daytime surfing. It's just a potential problem that I noticed.

I definitely agree that you need to double check the temps. If the glass is registering above 88, that can be a burn hazard. That will need to be fixed. The substrate can always be moved and the snake can contact the glass and injure itself.

I honestly think the whole problem is food however.
How much does your snake weigh? How much does the food weigh? Ideally you need to be feeding around 10% of your snake's body weight. At 4 months, I feel like a hopper mouse(?) Is way too small. That will make them restless and keep looking for more.
I have a month old BP that is eating small mice. Hopers are only fed to hatchlings for a couple of meals.

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

I definitely agree that you need to double check the temps. If the glass is registering above 88, that can be a burn hazard. That will need to be fixed. The substrate can always be moved and the snake can contact the glass and injure itself.

I honestly think the whole problem is food however.
How much does your snake weigh? How much does the food weigh? Ideally you need to be feeding around 10% of your snake's body weight. At 4 months, I feel like a hopper mouse(?) Is way too small. That will make them restless and keep looking for more.
I have a month old BP that is eating small mice. Hopers are only fed to hatchlings for a couple of meals.

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The glass is above but the substrate is 88 max.

Should i put probe in or out of tank? Should I just do glass no substrate on hot side with UTH at 88?

I agree on food. At store now. Should I feed her today or wait til Monday?

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Originally Posted by Harri

The glass is above but the substrate is 88 max.

Should i put probe in or out of tank? Should I just do glass no substrate on hot side with UTH at 88?

I agree on food. At store now. Should I feed her today or wait til Monday?

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The probe should be out of the tank securely affixed between the UTH and the bottom of your enclosure. You should feed her on your normal schedule. There's no need to rush. She won't starve.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

The probe should be out of the tank securely affixed between the UTH and the bottom of your enclosure. You should feed her on your normal schedule. There's no need to rush. She won't starve.

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Should I go weaned rat?

Can't add anything to what others have said about conditions or heat, but I will say; The hatchling I currently have is just three months old (egg was cut on 5/16/22), and has been on a feeder mouse (15-25g ea. as per the supplier), once a week to every five days (depending on whether she's hunting) for a while now. I just ordered weaned rats (25-45g ea.) to start transitioning her to in a month or so. At three months old, her health condition is very good, and she could easily take a weaned rat already, but I prefer to wait. I'm not sure if your hatchling is unusually small, but I would think that she's probably hungry, if you're still feeding hopper mice.

Was going to edit in, but took too long...

My 3-month-old is currently 198g 'loaded', aka she hasn't pooped, just for a base of comparison. If you have a kitchen scale, you can check your snake's weight - I just have a very basic Camry scale I got off Amazon years ago. I wouldn't depend on checking weight constantly, but it can be useful to get a general idea of feeder size by the charts. Some of them say to feed 15% of the body weight, but personally, I think that could be better stated as 'feed an absolute maximum of 15% of the body weight'. Ball python hatchlings do grow very fast, though. I normally feed my adult female about 4% of her current body weight, and even at that I recently noticed that she's gotten chubby. A hatchling, I would tend to feed closer to 10-15%, so long as they continue to show a healthy body condition.

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Originally Posted by Argentum

Was going to edit in, but took too long...

My 3-month-old is currently 198g 'loaded', aka she hasn't pooped, just for a base of comparison. If you have a kitchen scale, you can check your snake's weight - I just have a very basic Camry scale I got off Amazon years ago. I wouldn't depend on checking weight constantly, but it can be useful to get a general idea of feeder size by the charts. Some of them say to feed 15% of the body weight, but personally, I think that could be better stated as 'feed an absolute maximum of 15% of the body weight'. Ball python hatchlings do grow very fast, though. I normally feed my adult female about 4% of her current body weight, and even at that I recently noticed that she's gotten chubby. A hatchling, I would tend to feed closer to 10-15%, so long as they continue to show a healthy body condition.

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Thanks. I agree and will increase to small mouse or weaned rat next feeding.

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Originally Posted by Harri

Thanks. I agree and will increase to small mouse or weaned rat next feeding.

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As far as if she's being fed enough- we're not seeing her whole body- she might be on the thin side & need more food, so if you can post pics of her whole body (from above) we could better advise you too.

This might help:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...f42b352b68.jpg

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

As far as if she's being fed enough- we're not seeing her whole body- she might be on the thin side & need more food, so if you can post pics of her whole body (from above) we could better advise you too.

This might help:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...f42b352b68.jpg

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I will post some when she comes out. She’s on the side of hide between hide and glass. I guess that’s hiding lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Harri

Thanks. I agree and will increase to small mouse or weaned rat next feeding.

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Late to the party, but that makes sense to me. I like to feed the largest (healthy) option. For your BP, that would be a small-adult mouse. NO JUMBO MICE. TOO Fatty.

Then I would switch to rats as soon as possible because BP's can get used to mice. If you want to go weaned rat now, that's fine too. However, I think an adult mouse (18-24g) has more nutritional value than a weaned rat, but not by a ton. Do you feed live or F/T? If F/T you can also be a little more aggressive on size of rodent. If feeding live, for safety reasons, I would recommend feeding smaller prey more often.

I would be feeding an appropriate sized rodent every 7 days to beef her up. Not more than that. When she moves up from weaned rats I would go to every 10 days. Once at a good size and on small rats I would feed every 2 weeks. I would also not recommend going bigger than small rats unless she gets huge. For reference, my BP, Shayna, is about 1.8kg and happily eats a small rat every 2 weeks. A little goes a long way once they are adults and they tend to skip meals or fast if offered too large a meal and/or too often. Shayna still usually fasts a bit in the winter, but does not skip meals otherwise, unless in shed.

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Originally Posted by dakski

Late to the party, but that makes sense to me. I like to feed the largest (healthy) option. For your BP, that would be a small-adult mouse. NO JUMBO MICE. TOO Fatty.

Then I would switch to rats as soon as possible because BP's can get used to mice. If you want to go weaned rat now, that's fine too. However, I think an adult mouse (18-24g) has more nutritional value than a weaned rat, but not by a ton. Do you feed live or F/T? If F/T you can also be a little more aggressive on size of rodent. If feeding live, for safety reasons, I would recommend feeding smaller prey more often.

I would be feeding an appropriate sized rodent every 7 days to beef her up. Not more than that. When she moves up from weaned rats I would go to every 10 days. Once at a good size and on small rats I would feed every 2 weeks. I would also not recommend going bigger than small rats unless she gets huge. For reference, my BP, Shayna, is about 1.8kg and happily eats a small rat every 2 weeks. A little goes a long way once they are adults and they tend to skip meals or fast if offered too large a meal and/or too often. Shayna still usually fasts a bit in the winter, but does not skip meals otherwise, unless in shed.

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Feeding her small mouse today. Then gonna try weaned rat in a week. I feed F/T and she’s a good eater so I assume it won’t be an issue. Keep y’all posted.