is 36x18 ok?

I always rememberd a 40 breeder equivalent being the go to size for BPs, but it seems now certain people are saying 4x2 is " the new standard". Ive had my male in a 41 qt and now a 116ish qt (36 ×18) and he seems fine just wanted to get opinion. Might look at a christmas tree tote (52x20) this winter.

My bps are all on 36x18. They're all over 10 years old.

I think for a male BP, your 36" x 18" is fine; it's the female BPs that tend to get larger & may need more space. Of course, take into consideration any "exceptions to the rule" & also that they grow their whole lives, so a 30+ year old male might need more space but that's a long way off. ;)

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Originally Posted by Vader1

I always rememberd a 40 breeder equivalent being the go to size for BPs, but it seems now certain people are saying 4x2 is " the new standard". Ive had my male in a 41 qt and now a 116ish qt (36 ×18) and he seems fine just wanted to get opinion. Might look at a christmas tree tote (52x20) this winter.

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I agree that a 36x18 is fine, but that a properly set up 4x2 is better. A christmas tree tote is an intriguing option, but, unless your ambient temp is 80 degrees, it looks like it would be a challenge to heat.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/uIfeQIt.jpg

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I think for a male BP, your 36" x 18" is fine; it's the female BPs that tend to get larger & may need more space. Of course, take into consideration any "exceptions to the rule" & also that they grow their whole lives, so a 30+ year old male might need more space but that's a long way off. ;)

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Yea for a big female i would agree, ive seen some chunkers. My guy is about 9 years old and i dont feel like he is too cramped.

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Originally Posted by anatess

My bps are all on 36x18. They're all over 10 years old.

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Yea mine is 9.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I agree that a 36x18 is fine, but that a properly set up 4x2 is better. A christmas tree tote is an intriguing option, but, unless your ambient temp is 80 degrees, it looks like it would be a challenge to heat.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/uIfeQIt.jpg

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Well i used to not worry bout supplemental heat, my my new house stays rather cold. last winter was fine but this year he went off food so now he has a hot hide (88) a cool hide(77 to 81) and a cooler hide (74ish). I dont think a extra foot would make it much harder, maybe just up the wattage of my CHE.

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Originally Posted by Vader1

Well i used to not worry bout supplemental heat, my my new house stays rather cold. last winter was fine but this year he went off food so now he has a hot hide (88) a cool hide(77 to 81) and a cooler hide (74ish). I dont think a extra foot would make it much harder, maybe just up the wattage of my CHE.

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It depends on how much more air you're trying to keep warm- don't assume, try it first: test for at least a week without an occupant, & in winter when your place is chilly. That's the only way to know.

So I started off with a big (48x20) tote. My ball python seemed fine there, but I had some issues. I think it was fine because ambient temperatures in the room were on a natural daily cycle of between 80-90 degrees. The undertank heat mat was cranked pretty high (like 101 degrees) to raise the plastic surface temperature a few degrees. I also couldn't stick it right to the plastic on the particular tote, I had to use foil, all-weather tape to keep it stuck. I started on paper towels for substrate, and humidity was pretty easy to control. Once I added Reptichip, the humidity spiked up to the 90s and high 80s. I had to take out a ton of the moist stuff, wipe down the condensation, and mix in a lot of dry substrate to get the humidity down.

Very soon after getting my snake, I was given an Exoterra Large/Low (36x18x12). The undertank heat mat sticks to the glass well and keeps the glass surface over it about 1-2 degrees lower than the thermostat set point. I used the all-weather tape to tape off all but two lengthwise ⅛" slits across the top screen and have no trouble maintaining humidity over 60%.

I think my problems with the tote are that I didn't pick a great tote for the job. The bottom had some honeycomb pattern instead of being flat. I also may not have drilled enough holes to allow enough ventilation, which is why humidity was too high. Finally, this winter, I don't know how I would've heated the tote to get good ambient temps. With the glass, if room temps get too low for an appropriate ambient temp, I can always get a low-power ceramic heat emitter on a thermostat.

I like the Exoterra, but I'm currently building a PVC 4x2x2. Partially because I want to give my snake more space to move around and for me to add enrichment items, and partially because I think I'd like to get a smaller snake like a Hognose or Rosy Boa down the road to put in the Exoterra.

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Originally Posted by Vader1

Well i used to not worry bout supplemental heat, my my new house stays rather cold. last winter was fine but this year he went off food so now he has a hot hide (88) a cool hide(77 to 81) and a cooler hide (74ish). I dont think a extra foot would make it much harder, maybe just up the wattage of my CHE.

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Installing a CHE in a plastic enclosure is what I would be concerned about. I know people do it, but I'd find it challenging. When I had my bp in a sterilite tub, I only used a UTH because my ambient temp is high.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

It depends on how much more air you're trying to keep warm- don't assume, try it first: test for at least a week without an occupant, & in winter when your place is chilly. That's the only way to know.

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Amen and amen. Can't emphasis this enough. Get your enclosure dialed in before you put your critter in it. Pay particular attention to your temps, humidity, and security.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

It depends on how much more air you're trying to keep warm- don't assume, try it first: test for at least a week without an occupant, & in winter when your place is chilly. That's the only way to know.

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Well im not making any changes at the moment, just meant with more heat near the enclosure would raise the ambient.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Installing a CHE in a plastic enclosure is what I would be concerned about. I know people do it, but I'd find it challenging. When I had my bp in a sterilite tub, I only used a UTH because my ambient temp is high.

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His CHE hangs above the enlcosure. The top has soldered holes to allow better heat penetration. His main hot side is heated by flexwatt.

Also correction, at the substrate level the floor is 34x17 as the tub has a slight flare to it.

I had my (only BP) normal male in a V-70 tub (50 qt) for about eight or ten years before moving him into an AP T8 (4' x 2' x 1'). The larger enclosure seems to be less of a 'snake storage unit' than the V-70, and more of a "habitat" just based on how he acts. For reference, I keep most of my snakes in tubs; I'm not anti-tub in any way whatsoever.

I kept a pair of adult blood pythons for a handful of years (eventually, they sort of wore me down...they're a lot of snake to deal with) and for a while I used Xmas tree tub enclosures. I found those hard to deal with and moved the bloods into AP enclosures after maybe a year in the Xmas tubs.

I would like to add that some manufacturers like Boamaster and AP make racks for those big Christmas tree tubs if you wanted to get one.

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Originally Posted by Animallover3541

I would like to add that some manufacturers like Boamaster and AP make racks for those big Christmas tree tubs if you wanted to get one.

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That's a good thing to mention. I did have mine in a rack, for what it is worth. They were too large to slide out easily (heavier snakes than BPs, admittedly) and harder to clean than stacked enclosures (either put them on the floor and scrub them out, or try to move them somewhere to hose them out -- neither was as good as working in a front-opening AP cage).

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Originally Posted by Animallover3541

I would like to add that some manufacturers like Boamaster and AP make racks for those big Christmas tree tubs if you wanted to get one.

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Yea Ive seen the AP version. I just like being able to pop the top off and have full access to spot clean wipe down the sides when disinfecting. If I had more BP's i would see the use but right now its just my Ball and baby MBK.

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I had my (only BP) normal male in a V-70 tub (50 qt) for about eight or ten years before moving him into an AP T8 (4' x 2' x 1'). The larger enclosure seems to be less of a 'snake storage unit' than the V-70, and more of a "habitat" just based on how he acts. For reference, I keep most of my snakes in tubs; I'm not anti-tub in any way whatsoever.

I kept a pair of adult blood pythons for a handful of years (eventually, they sort of wore me down...they're a lot of snake to deal with) and for a while I used Xmas tree tub enclosures. I found those hard to deal with and moved the bloods into AP enclosures after maybe a year in the Xmas tubs.

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See he was in a VE-70 equivalent before I went with a taller 120qt in an effort to be more naturalistic and it seemed he was more active in the short tub lol. But that could just be recall bias. Thank you for your input.

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Originally Posted by Vader1

See he was in a VE-70 equivalent before I went with a taller 120qt in an effort to be more naturalistic and it seemed he was more active in the short tub lol. But that could just be recall bias. Thank you for your input.

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Possibly the "more active" behavior was because he wanted more room and once he got it he felt at ease. Or it could be that he liked the smaller tub better for reasons that we keepers have trouble seeing. I occasionally (not frequently, but a handful of times) have upsized growing snakes only to have them completely stop feeding; returning them to the original (too small, as far as I can see) tub immediately fixed the issue.

I have two rainbow boas like this right now, still jammed in shoeboxes since they won't eat at all in the next tub size up, but never refuse a meal in the shoeboxes. I personally try to give animals what I think is right (based on other keepers' input, natural wild conditions, empirical research, and so on) but if the animal indicates that this isn't what they want I try to defer to the animal's apparent wishes so long as it doesn't involve something obviously opposed to its health and safety.

Back to an earlier topic: having the tub in a rack, or using a PVC display enclosure, simplifies heating tremendously. The AP cage especially -- one radiant heat panel on a Herpstat and you're good to go. The Xmas tub in a rack in a cool room might need some creative heat tape (some belly heat, some side heat) but that's not too challenging. I share the worry about a CHE hanging over a tub, though of course you're the only one with eyes on the setup.

Given the lifespan of BPs, amortizing the cost of the most secure, safe and (in my opinion, anyway) easy to deal with enclosure comes out to a couple dollars a year ($250 APcage + $100 RHP + $200 Herpstat = $550 over 40 years = $13.75 per year), even ignoring the high resale value of this sort of equipment. Just a way to think about it that it seems we sometimes don't, that's all -- not implying that you or anyone else should see things only one way.:)

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Possibly the "more active" behavior was because he wanted more room and once he got it he felt at ease. Or it could be that he liked the smaller tub better for reasons that we keepers have trouble seeing. I occasionally (not frequently, but a handful of times) have upsized growing snakes only to have them completely stop feeding; returning them to the original (too small, as far as I can see) tub immediately fixed the issue.

I have two rainbow boas like this right now, still jammed in shoeboxes since they won't eat at all in the next tub size up, but never refuse a meal in the shoeboxes. I personally try to give animals what I think is right (based on other keepers' input, natural wild conditions, empirical research, and so on) but if the animal indicates that this isn't what they want I try to defer to the animal's apparent wishes so long as it doesn't involve something obviously opposed to its health and safety.

Back to an earlier topic: having the tub in a rack, or using a PVC display enclosure, simplifies heating tremendously. The AP cage especially -- one radiant heat panel on a Herpstat and you're good to go. The Xmas tub in a rack in a cool room might need some creative heat tape (some belly heat, some side heat) but that's not too challenging. I share the worry about a CHE hanging over a tub, though of course you're the only one with eyes on the setup.

Given the lifespan of BPs, amortizing the cost of the most secure, safe and (in my opinion, anyway) easy to deal with enclosure comes out to a couple dollars a year ($250 APcage + $100 RHP + $200 Herpstat = $550 over 40 years = $13.75 per year), even ignoring the high resale value of this sort of equipment. Just a way to think about it that it seems we sometimes don't, that's all -- not implying that you or anyone else should see things only one way.:)

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Just found out im bring gifted a pvc tank for christmas so i guess i dont have to worry to much. As for the creative heating, yea my house is cold compared to where ive lived in the past so i had to go with the uth che combo. its controlled and humidity seems to stay stable in his tub. And yea hopefully he lives another 20 years so i agree that the cost is really front loaded