Hypo black pastel... with trick?

I know this hatchling has black pastel and orange ghost, but I am questioning if trick may be present as well. The reasons I believe it may be present are a strong yellow/orange back pattern with open donut spots and some black squiggles toward the head, a solid stripe at the tail, some back pattern that connects to side pattern, the center of the alien heads very expanded, some open-shape alien heads and a lot of irregularity inside the alien heads. The pairing was an orange ghost pinstripe x black pastel pos het orange ghost. I am certain there is no pinstripe. Thanks in advance!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c45f56651c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...dae0139d6d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0b3a707c0e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9d594f1519.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ceae24ddc1.jpg

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I think you should update this post with the family history from morph market forum as well.
I'm not familiar with trick, but if the grandfather had a possibility, you might have it.

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

I think you should update this post with the family history from morph market forum as well.
I'm not familiar with trick, but if the grandfather had a possibility, you might have it.

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Thanks, you bring up a good point!

So years ago I bought this snake's grandfather from a commercial breeder who sold him as a black pastel het hypo (orange ghost to be specific) possible trick but the breeder wasn't sure.

I can attach labeled photos of the snake in question's parents and grandparents. If the snake does have trick also, my guess is that it went from grandfather to mother to this snake. I have bred the grandfather several times and have produced others that I questioned may have trick, but this particular snake shows trick traits strongly I believe.

Had to switch to Tapatalk for the photo attachment.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d5dff6672b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...8241957c33.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...28d70c5e69.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...09d6e40fb5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...8b4e49283f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6adf93995b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...699af0138d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a373e6746c.jpg

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Also, a picture of a half sibling from a clutch years ago who shares the snake in question's grandfather...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b5644f058b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...57f1ec068f.jpg

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Any others in the clutch look like they picked up Trick? Should be roughly 50/50 split. I think there is a good possibility but I wouldn't say definitively. I don't know near enough about OG to understand entirely how that would interact with Black Pastel, which already can have highly variable back patterning. From glancing on MM, all the OG Black Pastel have a strong orange in dorsal patterning, and the few I see with the Trick-like donuts in the dorsal have only one or two. If I were personally selling, I'd list it as "probable Trick" and include some background info in the body of the listing. It may be a world first, in which case I would keep it and work on proving it out.

I'm not sure about the others yet; this was the first speedy pipper. I can add photos of the rest of the clutch once they are no longer a bunch of eggs...I'm thinking 2 days?

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Here are the next two babies. They are taking forever to come out!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...472c7a0a63.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...bbf6ba65ee.jpg

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From what I can see of the pattern on the 1st new one, nothing is screaming Trick to me, looks like pretty standard Pin pattern. Second one has some really funky pattern beyond what I would expect from Black Pastel Pin, so that makes me lean more heavily towards Trick being in there in the original post OS.

Edit: I'm assuming last pic has OG as well, but I'm not really aware of what that does to pattern if anything, as again, not super familiar with it.

Comparing them to a couple on WOB:
Blk Pastel, Hypo Pin:
https://www.worldofballpythons.com/m...hypo-pinstripe
Hypo Trick Pin:
https://www.worldofballpythons.com/m...nstripe-trick/

Your second baby seems to have a crazier pattern than either of these morphs there. Might be a low expression trick on a hypo pin blk pastel?
It's a pain with the more subtle morph appearances sometimes.

So I'll go ahead and post before the last one comes out because I don't know if it'll make it, but here are the others.

I think that 1, 5 and 6 have trick, and maybe 4 does. I agree, if and when I sell them I'll list them as a maybe. It's been a subtle gene and I'd rather people have a good experience with a better than average outcome with all the research I've done than to be banking on a gene that evades them or falls flat of expectations.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9e4b8d8642.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...70461dfae8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4ad214e01f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e08a7e69b1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...187d402756.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e3afeafff3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d652ff37e1.jpg

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I'm on the fence about whether 6 is trick or just a bit of off patterning of the pin, but you are probably right. Otherwise I agree. Lovely looking clutch, congrats!

Thanks so much, I'm thrilled with them! Here's what makes me think trick for #6:

But also, I'm a transparent person so I'd give people the full rundown before mentioning the possible trick influence.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6d14539ac7.jpg

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