Cleaning products

Hello,
I am sure this subject has been touched on before. I have read articles on different cleaners. Looked on different groups. I was wondering what everyone here uses as a cleaner for tubs, enclosure s, water bowls. I want the safest thing possible but cleans and does a good job. How do you guys sanitize without being paranoid your snake is going to get sick from cleaners?

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Originally Posted by JJpeep

I was wondering what everyone here uses as a cleaner for tubs, enclosure s, water bowls.

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Dawn dishwashing soap to clean. Chlorhexidine to disinfect. I used to use Listerine.

Listerine? Interesting. Didn't hear that one yet. I heard a lot of people use the chlorhexidine. Also read that some vets say to watch your exposure to it. So that made me a little nervous. Seems it is widely used though. Thanks very much. I appreciate the response.

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Originally Posted by JJpeep

Listerine? Interesting. Didn't hear that one yet.

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I should have specified brown Listerine. The various other flavors have additives that may be irritating to reptiles sensitive respiratory systems. I don't think keepers use it much anymore since the rise of online retailers have made better disinfectants like F10 and Chlorhexidine more readily available.

Oh okay. I can see how it would work though. That stuff is strong.

NO disinfectant will be effective in the presence of fecal material & other biological debris, so FIRST, wipe & remove that stuff, THEN spray on disinfectant of choice- & for best effectiveness, let that sit for 10-20 minutes before wiping dry.

A number of mouthwash products (for humans!) have chlorhexidine as the disinfecting ingredient, & I've heard of people using mouthwash to wipe their snake's homes, but the other chemicals, none of which are meant to be swallowed, could be irritating or even toxic to reptiles if left on the surface- no telling- as not all mouthwashes have the same stuff in them.

Normally, I use generic (very diluted) chlorhexidine for wiping both snake & rodent cages, & it doesn't need to be rinsed, only dried. You can buy it in places like feed stores, or online. Depending on how many snakes you have, even a pint will go a LONG way, so if you end up buying a gallon, you might find someone to share it with, or donate some to the nearest animal shelter.

I have in the past also tried F-10, etc.

BTW, bleach is very effective, but very toxic & must be rinsed so there's NO odor left- don't use for routine maintenance, only for major disinfection of cages+ in case you have a known sick reptile, or if buying a used cage- since you never know what may have died touching that & what it died from. Same goes for ammonia- must be used with LOTS of ventilation or you'll get sick too, as with bleach- it's toxic to US! Use sparingly only when absolutely essential, & ONLY on surfaces that cannot absorb it- never on wood, for example.

For some things, a spray or soak in rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) is a handy disinfectant, though irritating- I use it on my feeding tongs, for example.

For water bowls, I mostly use just white vinegar, as it's a mild disinfectant but also removes hard water deposits*. Obviously you have to rinse it out thoroughly, but that's easy- there's no foaming like with soaps- it rinses clean easily. (*good for cleaning bathroom fixtures/showers too, for the same reason) And a gallon of plain white vinegar isn't expensive- it's in your nearest grocery store.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I've heard of people using mouthwash to wipe their snake's homes, but the other chemicals, none of which are meant to be swallowed, could be irritating or even toxic to reptiles if left on the surface- no telling- as not all mouthwashes have the same stuff in them.

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Agreed. When I used Listerine, it was on a nonporous surface (tub) and I washed it with water afterward.

Thanks for the lengthy response. I get super paranoid not knowing what is toxic or not. I like the idea of vinegar, but I would def rinse. Bleach gives me an instant head ache so I would avoid it unless, like you mentioned something died in an enclosure or there was some outbreak of sickness or something. I may buy a small bottle of chlorhexidine, if I really need to disinfect, but I will probably use vinegar for regular cleaning if I have to. I always use super hot water anyways before anything. I also was thinking about getting a steam cleaner. I think that would be a good idea.

This is assuredly not necessary for a routine cleaning, but when I got a used enclosure I did a triple step cleaning of Dawn dish soap, F10 and bleach with ample sitting periods and heavy rinsing between each.

Something like a good wet wipe down with or without Dawn soap and an F10 followup would more than suffice for something more routine, bleach is overkill.

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Originally Posted by JJpeep

Thanks for the lengthy response. I get super paranoid not knowing what is toxic or not. I like the idea of vinegar, but I would def rinse. Bleach gives me an instant head ache so I would avoid it unless, like you mentioned something died in an enclosure or there was some outbreak of sickness or something. I may buy a small bottle of chlorhexidine, if I really need to disinfect, but I will probably use vinegar for regular cleaning if I have to. I always use super hot water anyways before anything. I also was thinking about getting a steam cleaner. I think that would be a good idea.

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I remember someone else buying & using a steam cleaner- never tried one myself, but be careful that you don't warp plastic enclosures (tubs especially, but maybe even PVC-?). Otherwise, in terms of being non-toxic, it's a good idea. Let us know how that goes, if you do try one?

You can wipe the whole enclosure with white vinegar, full strength, but it's no fun having to rinse that much- & it's definitely irritating, so for me, it's just for water bowls. Or hides would be OK too.
Use white vinegar for things that are easy to rinse. Vinegar is not toxic- just irritating.

I'm glad you think in terms of what might be toxic- it's important for our own health too- don't assume that just because it's sold, it's safe- read the fine print & search it online. :gj: Herp pets are so much more sensitive & vulnerable than we are, since we're so much larger, and since any remaining chemicals will be breathed-in by our pets- especially since most of you use enclosures that restrict most of the air-flow.

Seconding Dawn dish soap! For disinfecting I was recommended Simple Green - it has a strong minty smell, so first I rinse it off twice really good and then keep rinsing until the mint smell goes away entirely. Some people think of it as nontoxic because it's called "green" and is supposedly biodegradable, but it stings my hands and is definitely not safe in trace amounts so you want to wear dishwashing gloves and rinse everything really well, and be careful not to blast it with water to avoid any splashing back at your face or god forbid in your mouth.

eta: hmmm upon googling I see "Simple Green All-Purpose Cleaner is not a disinfectant and will not kill bacteria or viruses. " so maybe I need to switch to something else.

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Originally Posted by plateOfFlan

Seconding Dawn dish soap! For disinfecting I was recommended Simple Green - it has a strong minty smell, so first I rinse it off twice really good and then keep rinsing until the mint smell goes away entirely. Some people think of it as nontoxic because it's called "green" and is supposedly biodegradable, but it stings my hands and is definitely not safe in trace amounts so you want to wear dishwashing gloves and rinse everything really well, and be careful not to blast it with water to avoid any splashing back at your face or god forbid in your mouth.

eta: hmmm upon googling I see "Simple Green All-Purpose Cleaner is not a disinfectant and will not kill bacteria or viruses. " so maybe I need to switch to something else.

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Both Dawn & Simple Green are for removing dirt & debris- either from dishes (Dawn, which is also used for cleaning wildlife that's gotten into petroleum oil spills, incidentally) or from household things (in the case of S.G.). Neither one is a "disinfectant". But just mild soap & water, cleaning thoroughly, is often enough- you need to clean first, or the dirt (feces etc) actually deactivates most of the disinfectant ability of other products used. And if you don't follow the directions when using disinfectants, they might not be doing all that you imagine anyway. (Most need to be left on for 10-20 minutes before wiping dry for maximum effectiveness.)

Any soaps, Dawn included, do need to be thoroughly rinsed from reptile homes & accessories. That's one reason many of us like to use a convenient spray-on disinfectant (such as chlorhexidine or F10) that doesn't require rinsing- only drying. But remove the "dirt" first. ;) And if you can't afford a disinfectant, just a thorough regular cleaning with "soap & water" is probably enough, especially if you aren't keeping large numbers of reptiles, adding new ones all the time, or breeding them- AND if yours appear to be healthy. It's another matter for vet clinics, pet stores & breeding locations- disinfectants are a "must" for them.

I already have used dawn dish soap for cleaning purposes. Of course I rinse it out (probably overkill rinsing) because I am so paranoid. But I figured it was safe. I hear a lot of breeders use it to wash off their female snakes after they lay eggs to get the all of the smells off so they start to eat again and get out of the 'protective Mama' mode. So I figured it has to be at least non toxic.
I always overkill rinse too, especially with the ball pythons enclosures. Since they are prone to respiratory infections, so I always take into account that their lungs have to be a bit more sensitive. Why I was looking for a disinfectant that wasn't so harsh. Lots of people use bleach. But like I mentioned above I can't stand the smell. It always seems to linger too and I don't want an animal enclosed in a container with that scent. Especially with sensitive lungs. I always think of the humidity levels as well. Has to conjure up some sort of condensation, therefore possibly kicking up a left over fume from an area that wasn't rinsed to full potential. I just want to stay away from bleach if I can. Unless I really need to use it for some reason.
Thanks for all of the insight. It really helps. Yes vinegar is really strong. So I would probably use it in bowls and hides also perhaps watering it down if I wanted to wipe down an enclosure just to temper down the smell a bit. Then another round of dawn to make sure it is rinsed out well. Just so the snakes don't have to deal with the smell and irritation. I probably will grab some chlorhexidine or F-10 too for them stinky dump days, lol!

Just wanted to say thanks for being so conscientious and responsible about your animal's health. :)

You ask great questions, and everyone learns from hearing these answers. As suggested mild dish soap's not sexy but it's inexpensive and does a good job of cleaning tubs, just rinse really well. I love diluted chlorhexidine gluconate (2%) as my disinfectant afterwards (like others with far more experience than I have suggested) because it smells so good (looking at you, VetOne brand) and properly mixed is a safe but thorough disinfectant.

Like you said, try a small bottle of chlorhex and see what you think. You can always purchase it later, like Bogertophis said, by the gallon which makes it pretty cost effective. Mix up small batches at a time in a spray bottle because once mixed, it loses efficacy after a couple of weeks.

Good lookin' out for your animal!

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Originally Posted by starfire

Mix up small batches at a time in a spray bottle because once mixed, it loses efficacy after a couple of weeks.

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Really? News to me.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Really? News to me.

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Yes, that's what the label (fine print) says somewhere- I remember reading it. If you don't have a HOUSE-full of cages to clean, you might want to buy a pint, rather than a gallon, also- since I think even the concentrate loses some effectiveness over time, & believe me, you dilute this so much it will take forever to use up a gallon, unless you can split the jug with someone, or donate some to the local animal shelter, for example- they'd likely appreciate it & are always underfunded.

I've bought chlorhexidine both ways- it's cheaper per oz. by the gallon, but if it's wasted, a pint makes much more sense. My spray bottle holds 24 oz. & I clean 18 snakes & a number of mouse-houses every week, so I use up that amount of spray. And I'm a "heavy-sprayer"-:D But for someone with only one or a few snakes- you don't need a gallon. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Yes, that's what the label (fine print) says somewhere- I remember reading it.

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I just re-read my label and it says no such thing, but I'll take your word for it. So, if I disinfect my enclosure every 4 weeks, then I need to mix up a new batch every time? That's too bad. I did the math and figured my pint would make 16 gallons of diluted cleaner. That would have probably lasted me for the life of my snake. Oh well.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I just re-read my label and it says no such thing, but I'll take your word for it. So, if I disinfect my enclosure every 4 weeks, then I need to mix up a new batch every time? That's too bad. I did the math and figured my pint would make 16 gallons of diluted cleaner. That would have probably lasted me for the life of my snake. Oh well.

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There are different brands- chlorhexidine is the generic name- so I can't promise you what's on every label, but you could google the info also. Off-hand, I don't know where I read it, but you can also search for best temperature to keep it at- I'd guess cooler would be better, so that may help extend the life also. It's the big breeders, farms & clinics that buy most of the gallons. Or should be.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

There are different brands- chlorhexidine is the generic name- so I can't promise you what's on every label, but you could google the info also. Off-hand, I don't know where I read it, but you can also search for best temperature to keep it at- I'd guess cooler would be better, so that may help extend the life also. It's the big breeders, farms & clinics that buy most of the gallons. Or should be.

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I couldn't find anything on diluted Chlorhexidine, but I did read that the undiluted stuff has a shelf life of three years. It should be stored in the dark at room temperature. After that time the alcohol in it starts to break down, and so, it becomes less effective.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I couldn't find anything on diluted Chlorhexidine, but I did read that the undiluted stuff has a shelf life of three years. It should be stored in the dark at room temperature. After that time the alcohol in it starts to break down, and so, it becomes less effective.

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It has been previously discussed on this forum too: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-chlorhexidine

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Yep, this topic comes up in multiple earlier threads, and the Nolvasan quote above is from a 2011 post when BP.net members discussed this issue and contacted manufacturers, like Nolvasan, to get answers on chlorhex efficacy and shelf life once diluted with tap water or distilled water.

I came on this forum in 2008 when I was introduced to reptile rescue and rehab by a vet tech friend, and spoke to several breeders on this site as well as my own reptile-only veterinarian (I was new to reptiles and really annoying with questions) about the best disinfectants for me. I chose chlorhex for my particular situation. I ended up doing a little animal rescue, too, so I had no problem going through a gallon in a year's time.

Mileage may vary, of course. I'm one to err on the side of caution, so I mix up new batches of solution for my spray bottle every couple of weeks.

Great discussion though (cleaners vs. disinfectants, etc.) Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread... very informative!

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Originally Posted by starfire

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Yep, this topic comes up in multiple earlier threads, and the Nolvasan quote above is from a 2011 post when BP.net members discussed this issue and contacted manufacturers, like Nolvasan, to get answers on chlorhex efficacy and shelf life once diluted with tap water or distilled water.

I came on this forum in 2008 when I was introduced to reptile rescue and rehab by a vet tech friend, and spoke to several breeders on this site as well as my own reptile-only veterinarian (I was new to reptiles and really annoying with questions) about the best disinfectants for me. I chose chlorhex for my particular situation. I ended up doing a little animal rescue, too, so I had no problem going through a gallon in a year's time...

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Thanks starfire, for finding that clip- it brings up something I wanted to mention earlier- that is, the reason behind not having the diluted solution sitting around more than a week or two.

Our tap water, while safe to drink, is not perfectly devoid of contaminants, & it's those tiny contaminants that weaken the effectiveness of products like chlorhexidine, Nolvasan, F-10, or even bleach, just as it does when you spray a "dirty" enclosure & think you're killing all the germs that way- you're not. All disinfectants work best in the absence of all contamination (fecal & other biological materials), so for the best possible disinfection by the product of your choice, don't mix up so much solution that you cannot use it up in a week or two.

And that's why, in the above clip for Nolvason, they say the solution can be stored longer (for up to six weeks) if the water used to make the solution was purified by deionization or an equivalent method. (That's their subtle, scientific way of reminding us that tap water isn't as perfectly clean as we'd like to think, lol.)

And btw, @ Homebody: I used to use Nolvasan, so that's one place I remember reading this, but similar notes are found on other products too, even the generic ones, or should be.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

And btw, @ Homebody: I used to use Nolvasan, so that's one place I remember reading this, but similar notes are found on other products too, even the generic ones, or should be.

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Color me convinced. That old batch is going straight down the toilet. Perfect timing too. Cleaning day is this Saturday.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Color me convinced. That old batch is going straight down the toilet. Perfect timing too. Cleaning day is this Saturday.

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You can still use it to wipe out the grunge (maybe put in a drop or 2 of dish soap to help clean), but just have a smaller fresh batch for the disinfection part. ;)

As long as you can tell them apart- & you have an extra spray bottle.