Building vs. Ovulation

Hi everyone,

I have a 2000g female that’s never been bred before this season who I paired 3 times with a male (1200g that’s proven). I saw locks each time. She spent a decent amount of time on the cool side of the enclosure, but for the past few weeks she has been spending more time on the warm side and has also been off food for about 4 weeks.

She did have a “lump” mid-section around that same time (a month ago) and I was wondering if this was evidence of her continuing to build her follicles. It’s clearly not an ovulation, but it’s been hard for me to tell given that my adults are currently in PVC cages with hides and not in the rack.

I saw a video that recommended continuing to pair your female until you see an ovulation happen. Having not paired her again in any of March, I decided to put them together tonight and see what happens. So I guess I have a few questions:

1. Does this “lump” in the pic from a month ago just look like building? That swelling is gone now. It’s possible I missed an ovulation since she may have been in her hides.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fa1240b70d.jpg

2. At what point do you consider the fact that she may have just absorbed her follicles? This is my biggest concern.

3. Would a female that’s already ovulated refuse further copulation from the male?

4. If she does ovulate and I see it, would you recommend taking out the hot hide in exchange for something better suited for her laying eggs? She would definitely need more room than her Zilla rock lair, lol.

Thanks so much in advance and your patience with my novice questions.


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It's a little hard to tell without seeing the whole rear section of her. If it was right before she went on fast, it could just be her digested meal really pressing the follicles out. Given the timing of her fast, I'm inclined to think there is a strong possibility it's that vs ovy, as mine will usually go into fast for weeks before ovy, but I wouldn't completely dismiss it either. See how this pairing goes and if you don't get a lock this time, it very well could be ovy.

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Originally Posted by femmefalconer

I saw a video that recommended continuing to pair your female until you see an ovulation happen.

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I recommend you continue to pair your male with your female until you see eggs-or you don't.
My method is one week on/one week off. I try to facilitate one week of breeding time/female/month.
A lot of people are devastated when their ball python doesn't lay eggs in a particular year: Stay calm and try to have fun! :)

Thank you guys for your valuable input!

After 24 hours I was able to catch them in the act and they’re currently locked up again. Since these guys are in cages and not in my rack, I always remove the hides and extra decor:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9e122bee97.jpg

So is it safe to say there’s still a possibility for an ovulation from her? Would she have refused the male otherwise? I’ll definitely be checking closely and will pair her again in a month unless I see something. She’s been off feed for about 5 weeks. Male is eating voraciously.


Also, is there a type of hide I could use on the warm side that would be more acceptable for egg laying?

Thanks again everybody!


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Warmth seeking coupled with inappetance in a ball female python that has locked several times in the past with a male are grounds to presume she’s gravid. A “lump” visibly can be the thickening that generally comes post ovulation. A ovulation, if you catch it, is unmistakable and is a pretty extra large swelling of the mid body. Just “building” typically refers to the maturation of the follicles and can be palpated but is for the most part not going to cause a swelling of the reproductive tract like a ovulation. Being egg bound however will surely show a heaviness and rounded appearance with some spinal prominence and tail inversion.

Actually not egg bound! Rather “full of eggs” that haven’t been laid as of yet and still gravid.” Egg bound “ being a emergency is not the correct presentation I was trying to get across. Thanks for the help.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Warmth seeking coupled with inappetance in a ball female python that has locked several times in the past with a male are grounds to presume she’s gravid. A “lump” visibly can be the thickening that generally comes post ovulation. A ovulation, if you catch it, is unmistakable and is a pretty extra large swelling of the mid body. Just “building” typically refers to the maturation of the follicles and can be palpated but is for the most part not going to cause a swelling of the reproductive tract like a ovulation. Being egg bound however will surely show a heaviness and rounded appearance with some spinal prominence and tail inversion.

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Thanks so much. So if I assume she is gravid already, would she still have copulated with the male again like she did last night?


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Originally Posted by femmefalconer

Thanks so much. So if I assume she is gravid already, would she still have copulated with the male again like she did last night?


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Yes, I believe so because remember it’s the male that uses his spurs to stimulate the female and she is mostly responsive to that and the domination behavior. I just had two females lay eggs last night and one week ago they were both receptive to the males and locked with them. Also, you are correct that the building process can show “ lumpy” areas along the body of a female as well as some swelling but not like a ovulation though. Good luck and continue pairing them. On 3 days and off 3 days. If she’s off food that is telling.

Well unfortunately I don’t think she’s going to go this year. I haven’t seen an ovulation and when offered a medium rat yesterday she ate it, so it appears she’s back on food.

It’s sad for my first breeding attempt but oh well. Better luck next year I guess.


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Sorry, but I think that nature "knows when the time is right" better than we do. Be patient...you'll get there. ;) :snake:

Thanks for the nice thought. I do appreciate it and this forum’s support and advice.

We have a new breeding female arriving on Thursday to try out for a DG project (well, first ever, haha). A pretty OD pinstripe het DG to pair with our male who worked so hard this year who’s a super pastel YB butter DG.

The female we tried was my first ever BP, a pet given to me, a simple pastel mojave and a virgin. Not sure if that mattered but she’s at least 6 years old and 2000g. We figured we could make some BELs out of them this year but I guess we’re not making anything. :/ We had them in our PVC cages and not in the rack, not sure if that made a difference either. Their own room, so not a lot of traffic, just checked once a day and spot-cleaned/watered/fed weekly.

Here’s hoping next season will go better. We have 3 males up to size and hope to get a 3rd breeding female next month.

Thanks again guys.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by femmefalconer

Thanks for the nice thought. I do appreciate it and this forum’s support and advice.

We have a new breeding female arriving on Thursday to try out for a DG project (well, first ever, haha). A pretty OD pinstripe het DG to pair with our male who worked so hard this year who’s a super pastel YB butter DG.

The female we tried was my first ever BP, a pet given to me, a simple pastel mojave and a virgin. Not sure if that mattered but she’s at least 6 years old and 2000g. We figured we could make some BELs out of them this year but I guess we’re not making anything. :/ We had them in our PVC cages and not in the rack, not sure if that made a difference either. Their own room, so not a lot of traffic, just checked once a day and spot-cleaned/watered/fed weekly.

Here’s hoping next season will go better. We have 3 males up to size and hope to get a 3rd breeding female next month.

Thanks again guys.


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I have a Virgin girl that I've had for about 4 yrs she's over 2000 grams and the last 2 yrs I've tried to breed her with no luck. I have 3 other girls going this yr so idk if it's a Virgin thing either. Also, my first 2 yrs breeding I used vision cages so I'm sure the pvc cages are fine

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Sorry, but I think that nature "knows when the time is right" better than we do. Be patient...you'll get there. ;) :snake:

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Well, I had her ultrasounded (my vet did it for free) and we saw about 8 follicles measuring 18mm. Is it possible she is just now starting to build and is a late bloomer, or does that sound like she’s absorbing? I wasn’t sure how long it might take her to absorb and which outcome would be most likely. The vet said I can come back to ultrasound again next month.


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What a nice vet! I'll let others (that breed BPs) take your question though- I've never bred BPs. I predict you'll see your vet again next month though- I sure would.

That’s the plan. I’ll also pair her again in another 3 weeks and probably go back in a month. I wasn’t sure if during absorption the follicles just shrink rapidly or what that process really looks like. Like if I ultrasounded again in a month, would the follicles just be gone or be like 5mm etc.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by femmefalconer

Well unfortunately I don’t think she’s going to go this year. I haven’t seen an ovulation and when offered a medium rat yesterday she ate it, so it appears she’s back on food.

It’s sad for my first breeding attempt but oh well. Better luck next year I guess.


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How long was she off food? I had a female go off food for a month then rat 1 rat then go off again. She laid a clutch last week

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Originally Posted by Santiago6621

How long was she off food? I had a female go off food for a month then rat 1 rat then go off again. She laid a clutch last week

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She was off food for about a month but ate a rat on Sunday. I have no idea what to expect at this point, lol.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by femmefalconer

She was off food for about a month but ate a rat on Sunday. I have no idea what to expect at this point, lol.


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Keep pairing. Same thing happen to me she ate 1 more rat then went right back off food then laid 3 months later


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So I know this is 6 weeks later but wanted to add something. I had a female I started pairing in October and she went off food quickly. To me she seemed to thin and I didn't believe she would go this yr so in February I got her back on food and she ate 6 rats in a 12 week span and then went off food again. She's always been a picky eater so I wasn't concerned that she went off food again I've had her since she was 400 grams so I know her habits. So anyways today I decided to changed her bedding try to get her back on food and to my surprise she looked like she glowing she felt full even thought she hasnt eaten in a few months and she has quite the pouch on her so I'm pretty sure she going to ovulate soon. Just wanted to share that sometimes these girls might go back on food and still go. This girl was 1900 grams a few months ago before the 6 small rats and she weighed in at 2200 today after being off food for a little over 2 months ago

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Here's the female I'm talking about. Hasn't eaten in 3 months think this was ovulation https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...197b46c66f.jpg

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Definitely looks like an ovulation! Congrats

Yes came as a surprise didn't think she would go, im 4 for 4 this yr happy about that

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