After 14 years, my snake surprised me...

In 2008 I adopted a 7 year old normal male, abused, rescue BP. My vet tech friend was doing reptile rescue and rehab, and he took in a snake with a broken jaw, occluded nostrils, infected rat bite wounds, RI, burns, belly and mouth infections---poor animal was in dire shape. My friend didn't name his rescue animals, so over the months of recovery I'd ask him "Hey, how's that little rat bite baby doing?" After about 8 months the snake recovered, but as he was not an especially valuable male for breeding, my friend asked if I wanted him. I'd just begun learning about reptile husbandry but thought it over carefully and decided to adopt him. I'd researched BP care here at BP.net, asked a million questions here and from other respected herpers, and ordered and set up my RBI rack, hides, thermostats, etc. And so Rat Bite Baby came to live as a confirmed bachelor at my house.

When I first adopted RBB I took him to an well-known, experienced reptile vet who sexed him, confirmed him male, and evaluated his condition. One of his nostrils was closed permanently by the rat bite injury, and though his jaw healed a little crooked, other than an occluded nostril and some scarring, RBB was a healthy boy.

Previously I'd only cared for mammals, and at first reptile husbandry was a steep learning curve. Not having to have him neutered (go ahead and laugh; I'll wait.) Not freaking out when he wouldn't eat for months, getting the Goldilocks set up just right for him to be happy, and acceding to this particular snake's preference for only eating white f/t rats. Over the years RBB thrived, put on good weight (1850-1875g), and had a very easy going and curious personality. A very chill snake. I'm respectful, he's respectful. He's given me perfect sheds and continued to eat well over the years.

Fast forward 14 years... Something's been off with RBB the past few months; he hasn't eaten, he had his first really terrible shed, and he's kept to himself under his hides. He's still mellow and calm when I take him out to gently examine him; he hasn't loss much weight. No wheezing, weird noises, RI symptoms; no skin or mouth infections; continues to drink and void, but he's not eating and something's a miss. His behavior and condition probably wouldn't concern most, but I've been concerned about what to do next--vet or not, stress him out or not.

Until last night... when I went in to check on him and found that "he" had cleanly laid a clutch of 9 eggs! Removed the eggs (slugs/no viable), waited til morning to make sure she was done, confirmed no other eggs were forthcoming or bound, let her hang in basin of warm water for a little bit, gave her a warm soap and water bath, completely scrubbed and changed her tub and environment, and let her rest awhile before offering food.

Yep, Rat Bite Baby is a GIRL and apparently capable of facultative parthenogensis. I guess she figured after 21 years there weren't going to be any males stopping by to flirt and laid a clutch of eggs by herself. I would've given anything to see my face when realized I was looking at a clutch of eggs in my 21 year old bachelor male's tub. And BTW, a little disappointed in the sexing by the "renown" reptile vet...

Apologies for the long post and special thanks to everyone at BP.net who has had this same surprise and posted about your own experiences. Your collective guidance keeps me off the tiny high ledge every time. Much obliged.

Learning here.....


https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...bpnet_eggs.jpg

May I be the first to congratulate both you & your awesome ball python! :D :dance: Talk about stoic pets, eh?

RBB's story reminds me of snakes I've taken in over the years & I've come to the conclusion that some of the best things in life are those passed over by others. ;) It happens when you can see the beauty & value in all snakes, even if they're not the latest designer morph. Are you incubating the eggs? If they're not clearly slugs (yellowish, slimy), I would... then again, that's how I end up with so many snakes. :rofl: Just noticed you posted a link to the clutch- looks like only the larger whiter one has potential, but hey, there's always a "next time"! (she said, with an evil grin...)

This poor python sure went thru a lot before you got her- snakes can survive a great deal, but it sure helps to have a "little help from their friends". :sweeet:

So obviously, even those very experienced with snakes can make mistakes on gender. :oops: Snakes are full of mysteries & surprises- maybe that's why we love them so much?

BTW, did you candle the larger, white egg? Sometimes they don't color up right away. It's funny that your RBB waited until "quite mature" to pull this stunt, much like the very mature rosy boa did with me, many years back. It really does seem to be nature's "Hail Mary pass" to save their species & of course with RBB, it really took years for her to fully recover anyway, before attempting "single parenthood".

I hope you're still in touch with your vet tech friend- I'd love to see his expression now too. :D Not to mention that it's a real credit that he was able to save this snake when she was so badly injured in the first place. Pretty amazing.

If they were all slugs it was not necessarily partho. While I haven't personally seen this in a BP, I've had single females of other species lay eggs from time to time, especially geckos.

Either way, what an interesting way to find out "he" was a she :)

@ Bogertophis

Thanks very much for taking time to help, and I certainly appreciate your comments. I did candle the larger, whiter egg but no joy; it was a total slug clutch. I did take a number of photos though so I can be sure I didn't imagine it.;)

Honestly, it turned out for the better as I wasn't really set up to properly care for an unexpected clutch of viable babies. You know, after stupidly thinking RBB was a bachelor for 14 years, and everything. :oops:

As you mentioned, after all of the physical trauma this rescue snake had endured, I'm sure it took her body systems much longer to heal internally than it did externally. But the girl definitely knows how to keep a secret...

Again, my thanks to everyone for their help and comments, for sharing this unusual surprise with me, and for not laughing in front of me! LOL

I don't think anyone's laughing, & personally, I'm delighted about the surprise your beautiful RBB gave you- sort of a belated "thank you" for all the years of TLC you provided & still do. :gj:

And you weren't stupid at all- initially, someone with experience judged her to be a "he"- that's not your fault at all- who gets an answer & keeps looking for a different one anyway? LOL

If these things happened when we expected them, they wouldn't be "surprises", and not nearly so satisfying. Suffice to say, I know the feeling. ;) And way to go, RBB! :snake:

Very generous, much obliged. :strong: Truthfully, I know I don't have the skill or experience to try probing anything, but you're right; several licensed reptile vet professionals and an experienced breeder confirmed my girl was a male, so yes, maybe I'm not quite as stupid as I feel. And yes, it's a fun surprise... as opposed to finding out the prize breeding male I just purchased might drop the occasional clutch. ;)

It's just that she keeps looking at me with that exasperated expression that says, "Finally you're figuring it out, huh? And BTW, bring on the rats!"

Grateful for the experience represented on these BP.net boards and camaraderie!

Just so you know, after my snakes have laid eggs or had live babies, they're TIRED first, & need both some rest & rehydration before food. I wait for the "signs" that mine are ready to eat before offering food- it can wait a few days or a week+, it totally depends on the individual snake. I'm not seeing yours, so I'm not saying she's not ready to feed- she may well be? This wasn't a huge clutch. But try to make sure she's well-hydrated.

Your RBB has been mellow & relaxed because she also feels safe with you- that's just awesome. But of course some snakes that seem "agitated" after laying eggs- it might be stress, or often they're just hungry & don't express it in the best way. It always helps to "know" our snakes & their personality- & then hope for some lucky guesses! :D

Amazing! What a powerful story. OP should consider submitting this to Reptiles magazine. Thanks for telling this one in such perfect detail also!

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Amazing! What a powerful story. OP should consider submitting this to Reptiles magazine. Thanks for telling this one in such perfect detail also!

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Hey, yeah, that's a great idea, starfire! :gj:

Quick epilogue... just wanted to post that after a few days of rest and rehydration, Rat Bite Baby ate a small white rat last night, and all was good with the world again. :floating: Great suggestions, Bogertophis.

It's good to breathe again after the past months. Sincerely appreciate the kindness and, as always, the great guidance by BP.net members. Now I just have to get used to writing 0.1 instead of 1.0....:cool:

Ms. Rat Bite Baby is a rock star! :w00t::carrot::dance::love: And I'm sure she sure didn't mean to cause you all that worry, lol. :snake:

My yellow rat snake females have never bred (at least not in the 13 years that I've had them, & IF they'd mated before that, they'd have been pretty young, so it's unlikely) but they still insist on laying infertile* clutches every (!) year- the first clutch is typically 20-28 eggs/slugs, & the second (automatic!) clutch is mercifully smaller, but as you can imagine, they're pretty wiped out after all that. ;) They always sink into their large water bowls for several DAYS, just resting & getting rehydrated after all that- their much-needed "spa days". Only when I see their interest in "motion" do I offer them food, & they POUNCE on it. :D Now pushing 15 years, they're quite "mature" for rat snakes, so I wish they'd quit laying all these eggs, but so far they just stick their tongues out at me...snakes will be snakes! :snake:

*I say infertile but one of these girls gave me 3 fertile eggs back in 2019 that I incubated out of curiosity (because they appeared to be good eggs) & they HATCHED- snakes can sure be full of "surprises". Like I "needed more snakes", ahem! :rofl: As you now know, snakes are full of surprises. :D

Congrats on your clutch, glad your girl is eating again.
I've had a similar situation, in 2019 my female (24yo) bp (that I thought was male) laid 6 good eggs+1 slug, by parthenogenesis.

Then in 2020, 6 good eggs, by parthenogenesis.

Then ate 29 f/t rats without missing a meal.

Then today (age 27) has just laid X eggs, by parthenogenesis.
I haven't been able to see the clutch yet.

From prelay shed, I had to wait 48,43,49 days for eggs.

I'm wondering do you know how long it was from her prelay shed to laying for your bp as she was also older, cause most people give values of 30 ish days, but mine has just done 49 which was stressful for me, as I thought she could be eggbound.

Let me know if you know, as there's little data out there for older snakes.