Still cannot get my bp to eat f/t rats

We have been trying to get our bp to go from f/t mice to f/t rats for about 4 months now. It's getting to a point where she's just not even fun to have anymore honestly.

We have tried literally every single method other than feeding live.

We have tried:
-Scenting with a f/t mouse in several ways
-Bait and switch
-Thawing the rat near her enclosure
-Thawing the rat in dirty live mouse bedding
-Putting dirty live mouse bedding in her enclosure prior and during feeding
-Various thawing methods
-Feeding at different times of day and with lights on or off
-Bumping up humidity for a few days leading up to feeding
-Trying different colors and sizes of rats
-Leaving rat in enclosure

The only thing that works is starving her out for a month straight. Only then will she reluctantly eat a rat. But, she can't really go a month without food. She is not growing anymore and is now teetering towards underweight.

We do not know what to do anymore other than give up and feed her only mice. Though, our understanding is feeding mice only will stunt her growth, which we do not want either.

Is this how long this usually takes? Is there some magical method we aren't aware of?

Where is it that you are located exactly? Do you have access to live rats?


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Couple things I would check.

-What are you temps like, cool, warm, and hot spot? Either too hot or too cold could cause them to not want to eat or digest too slow in the case of cold.
-What kind of cover does she have to hide? Oftentimes I will see new owners put a baby BP in a huge enclosure with a couple hides and call it good and this rarely works. If it's a large space, you need to fill most of it up with fake plants, hides, sterilized branches, etc
-Is the prey item small enough? Even if it's appropriately sized, snakes who have been fasting or are just scaredy cats do better if you go a size or two down and feed more frequent. I have a breeding size male and sub adult female that refuse to take small rats, and have to be fed weaned. This is just how some are.

Whatever the case, if she is eating SOME of the time, I would stop trying to switch up the type of prey. If she ate a f/t rat at any point with you, I'd stick with that.

Hope that helps!

This is her entire enclosure plus pic of where she basks: https://imgur.com/a/oQYAa9c

Warm side air temp (all in F) is 90-92 depending on house temp. Basking spot is ~98. She seems to like it hot. I use a DHP all day for temp gradient plus a halogen during the day for basking spot. Cold side is ~78 surface temp. Not seen in pic, but she also now has 7% UVB.

2 water bowls to help with humidity, but will likely be replacing the white one in the center with a humid hide. She hasn't liked humid hides in the past and avoids them at all costs, but we'll try again. She did actually shed last week and it was a healthy and pretty fast one. Idk why she shed since she's not eating and in fact has gone from 240g to 218g over the last 3 or so weeks.

We struggle with humidity a little. I pour like 2 gallons of water into the substrate plus we mist several times a day. Hygrometer still always says it's stupid low, but it might not be accurate if she had a good shed? Idk where a good spot for a hygrometer is.

Aside for not wanting to eat rats, she is a super sweet little snake who is extremely handleable. She literally never balls up when holding her. She is always very alert and curious when she's being held.

I really do suggest trying the hairdryer method ... I’ll send you the method by PM

These are my four Albino Royal Pythons all fed within about 30 seconds of each other and two were climbing at the time !https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...63c0f003f7.jpg


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Consider turning off the basking lamp temporarily and swapping out the log hides for something more closed in. One way in and out type of hide. How old is this reptile? Definitely consider Zincubus and the hair dryer method. And yes, lengthen the time between feedings.

I'd personally not use the UVB. Not only do BPs not increase their D3 levels with UVB (according to the only study of the species I'm aware of, here), but providing UVB to those species that don't really need it (i.e. those animals that are not basking thermoregulators) are reported to have hiding and feeding problems, and I've experienced these same issues myself with providing excess UVB to box turtles and Rhacodactylus geckos.

If you do use UVB, it should be metered to provide a level of no more than 0.7 UVI for ball pythons.

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I'd personally not use the UVB. Not only do BPs not increase their D3 levels with UVB (according to the only study of the species I'm aware of, here), but providing UVB to those species that don't really need it (i.e. those animals that are not basking thermoregulators) are reported to have hiding and feeding problems, and I've experienced these same issues myself with providing excess UVB to box turtles and Rhacodactylus geckos.

If you do use UVB, it should be metered to provide a level of no more than 0.7 UVI for ball pythons.

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We only got the uvb a couple days ago, so she's been having issues eating rats for months before.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Consider turning off the basking lamp temporarily and swapping out the log hides for something more closed in. One way in and out type of hide. How old is this reptile? Definitely consider Zincubus and the hair dryer method. And yes, lengthen the time between feedings.

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She doesn't even use her hides right now, so I guess we may as well try new ones. Her favorite sleeping spot is under that fake boston fern, and she rests her head on the base of dark brown tree.

At the moment, we can only get her to eat a rat once month, and with the size she is eating, she is losing weight eating that little. She has not grown in length in a few months either.

How old is this bp? Do you have belly heat for the reptile? I must have missed that temperature. The hides should be the same types. The cardboard at the end of a paper towel roll with one end stuffed with paper towel works well. Unless the animal is too big to fit in that.

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Originally Posted by Silktail

We only got the uvb a couple days ago, so she's been having issues eating rats for months before.

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Yes, I see you mentioned that. My thought -- that I didn't clarify well, I apologize -- is that providing the UVB may be detrimental to the project (by adding another variable that is known to be detrimental in some situations), and also serves no benefit regarding D3 production in this species. I didn't mean to suggest that it is in fact causing the issues you're experiencing.

Definitely the hair dryer method. I just got some new snakes and they were all being fed live rodents before i got them. The hair dryer method got them all in a frenzy when it was time to eat, striking at what ever I put in front of them when I opened their tubs. How much does your snake weigh?

One other angle for things here...
From the sounds of it, you might just have a mouser. =\
Ball pythons can be notoriously picky. Sure, mice are not quite as good for them as rats are, but definitely not the worst you can do.

If it's less stress to get her to eat mice, and she takes f/t mice willingly... Might just be better to learn to work with it.

If you did want to try it a bit more, I also agree the hairdryer method being mentioned works well. That or my pickiest 2 right now will only eat rats that I thaw in a ziplock baggie in water. I guess the baggie locks the rodenty goodness in while they warm up. Maybe try that with some mouse bedding in there. But make sure it's stinky enough first.

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

... my pickiest 2 right now will only eat rats that I thaw in a ziplock baggie in water. I guess the baggie locks the rodenty goodness in while they warm up. Maybe try that with some mouse bedding in there. But make sure it's stinky enough first.

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When you thaw rodents IN water, it washes off some of the original scent. So if you have a snake that prefers mice, it might work better to wash (soak) off as much of the rat's scent as possible first, before adding some mouse scent via "stinky mouse bedding". At least that's what I'd try doing. If you start with a frozen rat, they take a while to thaw, so I'd thaw in water for a while first, & when I change the water (part-way thru thawing), that's when I'd add the mouse-scent, OR roll the fully-thawed rat in the mouse bedding after it's fully thawed & blotted off on a paper towel.

Nutritionally speaking, mice are close enough to a BP's natural diet- and domestic rats are not their natural diet either- it's mostly that the size works better once BPs are mature, so they can eat just one item that fills them up, whereas mice would be too small & require more than one, and some BPs just refuse more than one item no matter what. A BP's natural diet is African soft-furred rats, which is usually abbreviated to ASFs.

As I refreshed my own memory on ASFs (as I've never dealt with any) I noticed that various sources don't agree on whether they're rats or mice: their size falls somewhere in between & they're in a category of their own. Just something to keep in mind. There's plenty of other links to read up on them besides this one. Needless to say (for the OP), domestic rats or mice are less expensive & far easier to come by than the BPs natural prey (ASFs), & in many states ASFs are not legal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natal_multimammate_mouse

(OP-) Keep in mind that there is more than one thing you need to "get right" for many BPs to eat reliably. The method above is about scent, but that's only part of the problem. Most BPs also rely on the heat-signature of their live prey, so that's where "the hairdryer method" comes in. Their prey should also be warm as well as scented for best results.