Low/Nil White Pied?

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...1229B16A81.jpgI picked up a female today that I’m not entirely confident about. I was told she was a low white pied female. She has no white on her with the exception on 3-4 white patches on her belly. She does not have a normal pattern on her body, and appears to be a pied pattern (like a wonky genetic stripe). Let me know what y’all think!

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2824FB3F37.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...7319889E71.jpg

She's definitely got an interesting belly! Love that stripe on her back too. I wonder if she's actually a het pied with some of the pied markers bleeding through a bit differently. Is there a picture of her sides? Is there any flaming or heavy blushing down by the belly?

If she was in my possession, I'd try breeding her to a pied and see what I get. All pieds is most likely a very interesting super low white mom. Mix of het pieds and pieds would mean she's a het...unless the babies also hatch out with her very interesting pattern.
To me.... even her color seems a bit off for a Pied. A lot of them have more of a high gold coloration and she looks pretty dark.

Hopefully someone with more experience on extremely low white pieds can pop in with an opinion... but I really do love the look of this girl.

Also....
2 of these do look similar to yours, so maybe they're from a similar line
https://community.morphmarket.com/t/...te-pied/5593/9

Here are some images of her body and sides. She also has some purplish blushing near her head I’ve captured. She also has a white tip on her tail. I’ve also included her blushing on her sides.https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...A545124F8D.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...AEB959D8A2.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...60DF77806C.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...9FF7F1449F.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...054B15F434.jpg

When I read the title I thought I was in for some inexperienced person assuming a het with ringers was full pied, but seeing the pictures and description, I think it really might be. It's really wild to see that dark of yellow in the belly, and to my knowledge, pied is the only morph to really saturate colors to the extend that could cause that. Curious to see some good head shots of this animal, from side and top. Whatever it is, it's really freaking cool! The reason I really want to see the head is to see if I could possibly see another morph in there that might increase chances for really low white pied. Might be dealing with something in the Cinnamon complex other than cinnamon or black pastel that really fights the white. We know Enchi does that, which is in that complex.

Another thought I had after some thinking, is there some possibility this is a hybrid?

I think it would be helpful to ask the seller/ breeder what the parental genotype was. In Stefan Broghammers account ( author of Python Regius) he discusses this. He says in part, “It has been realized that mating two low white pied specimens will only produce low white pied young. However, it’s not the same for heterozygous specimens. If you pair a low white piebald specimen with a non pied there is is a chance that the white content is not exclusively determined by the pied parent but also by the non pied parent , meaning the hetero specimen exerts an influence on the phenotype of the offspring as well. He goes on to say that this scenario exists in the Calico for example, where the appearance of the offspring is not determined by the dominant Calico but rather by to what extent the respective mating partners genes respond to the mutation. This could also be the case in piebalds. Important to look at parentage when possible.

I looked at the gray coloration under this reptiles chin and acknowledged that is also a visual sign of the piebald gene. The lack of an all white belly throws a curve into the equation. The yellowing along the laterals makes this a difficult call. Really would like to know the parentage.

I've never seen one with a continuous stripe like that, normally there's some breaks in it, more than normal side pattern also. but at the same time I'm not doubting it's a pied. Pretty neat.

Unfortunately she was kept as a pet for a few years. She was for children so she’s super friendly, however, because of this they are not understanding of genetics. They sold her to me as a low white but after looking at her more in person I was baffled haha! I figured I’d get some advice from the community!

At least now there are cutting edge services where you can send in a BP's shed and they can analyze its heritage. Could be worth a shot for this mystery.

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

At least now there are cutting edge services where you can send in a BP's shed and they can analyze its heritage. Could be worth a shot for this mystery.

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I would offer to send the shed as a sample at this stage, but it's not advanced enough that it's worth doing much more yet. Give it some time though and they might be able to answer a lot of questions about what is going on with this animal. Doing a morph profile necessitates them having sequenced every gene that relates to any morph. When that service is first offered to the public, it will be very pricey because unlike sexing, they will have to examine a bunch of different genes, not just one chromosome.

Hey Nik, I think the university in Eastern Michigan is already doing that morph testing in ball pythons. OWAL had posted it in that thread. Unless I missed something in the readings. I know the original DNA sequence facility is only doing the sexing. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Used the search bar and the forum and can’t seem to pull up that thread. OWAL gave the link and the prompt led you to all the info about the Eastern Michigan study and information. I believe he also said he was preparing to send off several sheds soon.

All the sheds I'm sending are donations so they can hopefully figure out some more morphs. I'll be seeing Hannah on Saturday, I'll ask her what they are able to do at their current stage.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

All the sheds I'm sending are donations so they can hopefully figure out some more morphs. I'll be seeing Hannah on Saturday, I'll ask her what they are able to do at their current stage.

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Alright, that sounds like a plan. I was not sure if the description of their advances were already in place and being carried out. Or to what extent. Please keep us posted when you can. The language in the article accessed through the link led me to believe all systems were a go.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Hey Nik, I think the university in Eastern Michigan is already doing that morph testing in ball pythons. OWAL had posted it in that thread. Unless I missed something in the readings. I know the original DNA sequence facility is only doing the sexing. Correct me if I’m wrong.

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This is from their website:

"We have created genetic tests for Albino/Toffee/Candy, Lavender Albino, Ultramel, and soon Piebald. Genetic tests will be offered for FREE in Fall 2021.

To have your animal tested, please send us a shed from your animal.


Genetic testing can tell you:


Whether your animal is heterozygous


Which alleles your animal carries (e.g. Albino versus Toffee versus Candy)"

I imagine they had a period they were doing them for free to get some more samples in. Not sure if that has expired since it's no longer fall 2021, or what progress they have made since this was posted. For the testing when publicly available for a fee, they will likely have a cost per morph to test or a larger group of tests to test them all. I also imagine they chose to start with the morphs they did because recessive morphs being tested for hets should be the bulk of demand.

I'm very excited to see how the project grows, and I'm glad more than one place is working on it. Ever since Brian mentioned it on youtube that he wanted to possibly start working on it, I've been really excited and even entertained the idea of doing it myself but it would be such a huge scope that I just don't have the resources I would need. Here is the original thread https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...om-Snake-Sheds!

And the original genetic sequencing facility is only doing venomous and colubrid testing for sex determination. Not ball pythons yet.

So in addition to what they say above she said they can also do they yellowbelly complex. She believes they are close to pied and hypo also. I asked about clown and she said it's a big request. Being able to tell hypo clown and pied would be huge for me.