HELP! Baby ball python extremely skinny and corkscrewing!

I just got this baby last night, bought him from a breeder so I thought he'd be fine but it wasn't until I got home that I noticed he's extremely skinny and wrinkly. I saw another thread on here with similar issues that said dehydration could be a cause so I gave him a bath and he very quickly started drinking and plumped up. He's extremely lethargic though and doesn't flick his tongue at all. I didn't notice the corkscrewing until 2 am this morning when I woke up to check on him, he finally started moving on his own and I noticed it, he doesn't have a head wobble but he definitely can't seem to move in a straight line. The breeder mentioned to me that he left him on a heater while he was at work yesterday and I think he might've gotten too hot and that caused the dehydration and corkscrewing. Is there anything I can do for him? He's in another lukewarm bath right now, leaving him in there for 30 minutes. He's also only ever been eating pinkies so he's very skinny. He ate the day before yesterday so I'm thinking I'll try giving him a fuzzy after he poops. Any help or advice is appreciated. Thank you.

I don't know how to edit posts and I forgot to add that he's not a spider, he's pastel het for G-stripe.

So this snake was shipped to you? (How did you not notice he was so skinny?)

Pinkies (rat or mouse) are NOT enough food for the typical BP hatchling. Most are started on mouse hoppers, but without seeing what size this snake actually is- I wouldn't upsize quickly & a fuzzy would likely be the best thing to try, as you mentioned in your plan.

Cork-screwing could just be that he's very weak! Again, not seeing & even if you post pics or a video, we cannot (& ethically, should not) assess or diagnose your snake as an experienced herp vet would. Actually, if you keep him, a vet would be a good idea, & this site can help you find one: https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

You're correct that excessive heat can also cause neurological damage to a snake- are you sure you want to keep this snake? Seems the seller passed off an un-healthy snake to you- I hope you have enough experience to deal with it. If not, you might want to consider returning him, because sick snakes can quickly get expensive, with no guarantee of survival.

What health guarantee did the seller give you, btw? What is the hatch date?

Do NOT leave this snake alone in water- he could easily drown, being so weak. Also- measure the temperature of the water very carefully- what feels warm to you is HOT to him- remember we're roughly 98.6* so the water that feels warm to you may easily be 100*+ and if he was previously overheated...this may not end well. The shallow water should be about 80* for his safety- get him out until you can make sure, & keep any soaks short (about 20 minutes max.) it's very stressful for him.

I picked him up in a city a couple hours away from a breeder I found on Craigslist. I just didn't examine him well enough when I picked him up so that's on me and he was curled up in a ball so I didn't notice he was so skinny and wrinkly until I got home and moved him out of his box. This is my first ball python, I've had a corn snake before but never a ball. Thanks for that vet source.

I think the guy I got the snake from is a hobby breeder so he didn't give me any kind of guarantee, it seems I'm learning a lot of things the hard way right now. I really want to keep him, he's such a beautiful little thing but I should still be able to talk to the breeder if he ends up not getting better at all soon but it seems this guy knows about as much as I do about ball pythons if he's feeding them pinkies. The breeder said he hatched in November 2021 but didn't give me an actual date.

Yes I have been keeping a close eye on him in the bath and I put a thermometer in the water to make sure it was a good temperature, it was about 86 degrees so he should be okay.

He's done with the bath now and I put him in his warm hide. He struggled a bit and managed to poke his head out and he's just resting now, hasn't moved for about a half hour.

Here are the pictures I have so far.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...216-154133.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...217-124227.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...217-124241.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...217-124448.jpg
https://ibb.co/DgK2Sr5
https://ibb.co/XJG2pGm
https://ibb.co/FxNkqjR
https://ibb.co/82SLNCg

This poor baby. By leaving him on a HUMAN heater, this snake would have definitely been overheated. Think of how large of an area that is meant to heat and how hot that is for us to touch. Even if it was a reptile heat pad, without being regulated by a thermostat, they routinely will hit 115 or higher.

I would definitely leave a little washcloth in the water for the snake to rest on if he feels too intimidated by the water. It will also help try to keep him from being even more stressed by being unable to escape the water. Boger has also given you some good advice!

I would personally try to get this baby more hydrated over the next 48 hours before feeding, unless this baby is absolutely emaciated.
This is where I might go a little differently than some suggestions, but....if emaciated, I would possibly consider keeping him on the pinky every 4-5 days because they are small and very easy to digest for at least 2-3 meals with you. You may need to ask your vet about alternative methods like tube feeding if he will not eat. After a couple of meals with you I would move up feeders to correct size slowly. Remember his body may not be used to eating that much and he may regurge or get diarrhea from the sudden change.


It really does sound like this breeder has a number of points that they need to improve on. :mad:

It sounds like it's from overheating, it could also be from chemicals but overheating is much more likely. All of the information that Bogertophis mentioned is spot on. I think a vet visit is a good idea but it might be better to wait at least a couple days for an in-person visit just because he's so weak (a phone call would be a good idea). Try to avoid unnecessary handling since it will cause more stress, handling for health reasons is okay. Make sure he has a lot of cover in the tank, if he's in a clear tank covering 3 of the sides will help. Try to keep the warm side a little bit cooler than usual (maybe about 86*) so he doesn't overheat (he might not be able to thermoregulate properly).

Okay my post was being typed while you were posting....
He doesn't look emaciated, but he is on the skinny side. I would still do another soak at some point today or tomorrow to help hydrate him a bit more and make sure he has a nice humidity level in his tub for now.

I think you can still try a fuzzy for him, but do be careful with upsizing too quickly because the point about him not being used to it and possible regurge still stands.
He definitely is a cute little one though so I hope once he's hydrated and has a few more calories he'll start doing better.

Yes, this is definitely jumping in quickly & learning the hard way...I'm not impressed with the breeder you found. :rolleyes: A snake should never be sold in this condition- rescued perhaps, but not sold.

86* for that bathwater was still a little too warm; that's nearly as high as the maximum recommended temperature in their enclosures (you want the cool side to be roughly 77* & the warm side to be 88-89* max. warmth), & remember, in their enclosures they can always move away from the warmth, unlike in a bath where they're totally surrounded by whatever temperature the water is. I do hope he's okay, he's going to need all the help you can provide, it sounds like. Think of him as being in your ICU- (intensive care unit).

Don't handle him at all, as you might a pet- just watch & let him rest until he's eaten (& digested) AT LEAST 3 meals with you (& preferably after 5+ meals, with one in such poor condition) at normal intervals (5-7 days). In this case, if you get him to eat a fuzzy, I'd offer again after 5-6 days, unless he's in shed.*

*You said his skin is wrinkly- he might be wearing an old stuck shed, which you might need to help him get out of- but for now, keep his humidity up- about 75% (I hope you have a gauge? and also are using a thermostat on any/all heat sources?)

I see you've posted pics while I was typing- that helps us see what you're dealing with. He's a pretty little soul- & as Armiyana mentioned, he's thin but could be worse, & he doesn't appear to be wearing old shed, so that's good.

Thank you all for your quick replies! I will definitely put a towel in the bottom of his baths from now on. I'll probably give him another bath this afternoon. The warm side of his tank is set for 88 degrees for now. He ate a pinky the day before yesterday for the breeder, I could feel it in his stomach and he does seem to be digesting it fine so that's good. If I can find a fuzzy that's on the really small side I'll try that but otherwise I'll do another pinky. I'll probably try feeding him tomorrow, and I'll see if I can get a video of the corkscrewing.

Is there anything that can be done for that corkscrew? I'm very worried he'll be so screwed up he won't be able to strike to eat. It doesn't look like a normal wobble, he can hold his head perfectly still he just doesn't seem to be able to figure out where the ground is and what's up or down.

When offering food, try not to dangle it high, closest to ground level will be the best when they can't quite figure out which way is up.

As for helping his problem with corkscrewing- you'd have to know what's causing it, & for that, you'll NEED a good experienced herp vet.

As already noted, it would be FAR better to keep him home for a while so he can eat & get stronger- vet visits are very stressful (for the snake ;) ) & it would also help if the vet can get a fresh stool sample to test. He may need to take a blood sample, & that's NOT something you'd want to do with a dehydrated fragile snake.

Is this your only snake right now? I hope so- if not, you must quarantine this guy completely from any others. You mentioned a corn snake, but that sounded like it was in the past?

I trust you have feeding tongs? You may have to help him eat (guide the prey to his face) if his wobble is too severe.

I almost forgot...:welcome:

I'm not impressed either, once this little guy recovers and I'm sure I'm not going to have to try to bring him back to the guy I'm going to probably send him a very educational but slightly nasty text.

Okay good to know, thank you, I'll make sure to give him cooler baths from now on. I haven't handled him at all other than what's necessary and I definitely agree, I'll keep from bugging him as much as possible. I don't think he's in shed at all, his eyes are very clear and the wrinkles seem to be from a lack of mass rather than stuck shed. I'll keep an eye out though.

I have a Jump Start thermostat hooked up to a ZooMed heat mat and I have a laser thermometer I've been checking the temperatures with every hour or so. I also have a heat lamp with a 60 watt ceramic heat emitter but it's too cool in the house for it to heat up much, it just helps keep the cool side above 70. I'm going to get a hygrometer right now since I'll be at the store to get mice as well. I've been misting the tank every couple hours though with warm water in a fine mist bottle so it should be plenty humid, the substrate is also slightly damp.

Do you know of anything I can get or anything I can do to help the corkscrewing? I think that's my biggest concern at the moment. His head stays still just fine but whenever he moves he goes straight upwards and kinda back or to the sides, he's just all over the place, the poor thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

As for helping his problem with corkscrewing- you'd have to know what's causing it, & for that, you'll NEED a good experienced herp vet.

As already noted, it would be FAR better to keep him home for a while so he can eat & get stronger- vet visits are very stressful (for the snake ;) ) & it would also help if the vet can get a fresh stool sample to test. He may need to take a blood sample, & that's NOT something you'd want to do with a dehydrated fragile snake.

Is this your only snake right now? I hope so- if not, you must quarantine this guy completely from any others. You mentioned a corn snake, but that sounded like it was in the past?

I trust you have feeding tongs? You may have to help him eat (guide the prey to his face) if his wobble is too severe.

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There also seems to not be any good herp vets in my state, I'll keep looking though but I think if he's that bad I'll have to just take him back to the breeder because I probably wouldn't be able to afford a vet visit.

He is my only snake yes, the corn snake was a few years ago.

Yes I have feeding tongs and I think it'll be best to feed him in his enclosure but I'll put a paper towel under him so he doesn't end up ingesting any bedding.

ALWAYS feed snakes where they live- never move them to eat elsewhere. Shy feeders may stress out & refuse food after even minimal handling, & not-shy feeders may be biting you before or afterwards, since snakes can stay in "feed mode" for hours or a day or longer.

DO NOT FEED HIM ON A PAPER TOWEL! (I'm SO glad you mentioned that though.) Paper towels easily get dampened & caught up with the prey, & may require surgery to save the snake from the undigestible blockage in their gut. Never feed a snake on soft paper or any kind of fabric- but DO put down a piece of cardboard or a plastic box top, or a real plate- anything he can't ingest accidentally.

If his instability (corkscrewing) was caused by excessive heat, I suppose he might gradually improve, but it's impossible to say. If it was just from his overall weakness & disorientation, it "should" improve. But of course, it could be other things that won't get better- we'll hope for the best, right along with you. :please:

I would not put anything in the water with the snake. While you should be watching it you don't need it to get under the towel or cloth and not find his way out. He could drown. The proper way to soak a snake is to place it in water no deeper than their body. I usually only go half to 3/4 up their body. That way they soak but do not have to fight to keep their head above water. If the water is shallow as it should be the snake will not need anything to rest on. If it needs such a think the water is deeper than it should be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

ALWAYS feed snakes where they live- never move them to eat elsewhere. Shy feeders may stress out & refuse food after even minimal handling, & not-shy feeders may be biting you before or afterwards, since snakes can stay in "feed mode" for hours or a day or longer.

DO NOT FEED HIM ON A PAPER TOWEL! (I'm SO glad you mentioned that though.) Paper towels easily get dampened & caught up with the prey, & may require surgery to save the snake from the undigestible blockage in their gut. Never feed a snake on soft paper or any kind of fabric- but DO put down a piece of cardboard or a plastic box top, or a real plate- anything he can't ingest accidentally.

If his instability (corkscrewing) was caused by excessive heat, I suppose he might gradually improve, but it's impossible to say.

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Oh! Thank you, so glad I mentioned that too. I'll use a piece of cardboard or something then!

Darn, I wish there was something I could do but at least it doesn't seem like he's guaranteed to be stuck like this forever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

I would not put anything in the water with the snake. While you should be watching it you don't need it to get under the towel or cloth and not find his way out. He could drown. The proper way to soak a snake is to place it in water no deeper than their body. I usually only go half to 3/4 up their body. That way they soak but do not have to fight to keep their head above water. If the water is shallow as it should be the snake will not need anything to rest on. If it needs such a think the water is deeper than it should be.

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Oh definitely don't do that if it's alone! But the whole point is that this animal should not be left alone to soak.
The point of the towel is to be a still moist landmass for it to feel comfortable on and reduce stress. Stressing an animal like this out in a soak can lead to it panicking and even at only 3/4 body depth, it can flip over or inhale fluid. It also gives them something to rest the front half of the body on.

I suppose you can put something flat and heavy they can't tip over in there, but they usually aren't able to get that permeability like a towel can. And that reduces how much hydration they can get through contact.

Part of the reason I started doing this for sickly reptile soaks is because of a coworker loosing one at 'proper depth' when it did alligator roll and inhaled too much fluid. =/

Just got back from getting mice and such, they were sold out of hygrometers but I'll continue misting with warm water and I think he'll be just fine until I can get one. He's still really lethargic, didn't move at all while I was out. I gave him another bath and got a video of him corkscrewing. It isn't always this bad but this is about as bad as it gets for him.

https://youtu.be/okcRe9gZinE

Also the water looks too deep because the bin was tilted a bit, I evened it out and got him situated better after the video. He didn't seem to drink as much this time but that's probably a good thing. Also I put paper towels in the bottom and the water is only as high as half of his body and I sit and watch him throughout the entire bath so I can be sure he doesn't drown.

Also, do I have to wait until he poops to feed him again? Or should I feed him tomorrow night regardless?

If it is doing that I would not put it in water. Would be pretty easy to breath in water. I would contact the breeder ASAP and send them that video. That is not right and does not look good to me.

I saw it mentioned the heating pad used by the breeder meant for humans. I question any "breeder" that would do such a thing. That is widely known to be a bad idea and why would they need to do it anyways? They should be set up to properly house snakes.

I would ask for a full refund and return the snake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

If it is doing that I would not put it in water. Would be pretty easy to breath in water. I would contact the breeder ASAP and send them that video. That is not right and does not look good to me.

I saw it mentioned the heating pad used by the breeder meant for humans. I question any "breeder" that would do such a thing. That is widely known to be a bad idea and why would they need to do it anyways? They should be set up to properly house snakes.

I would ask for a full refund and return the snake.

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He settles down pretty quickly after he's in the water and I literally sit there and stare at him for basically the whole duration of the bath, he's just so dehydrated I want to get fluids in him.

I just texted the guy I bought the snake from asking for more specifics. I just remember he said he kept it on a heater while he was working and I thought it was a good thing until I found out overheating can cause corkscrewing pretty quickly. He's definitely a hobbyist breeder, and clearly doesn't know his stuff very well. We'll see about returning him. I'm kind of just holding out hope that he just needs a lot of TLC. I brought up a refund with the guy but he's kind of just a guy on Craigslist so I'm not sure if he'll even give me a refund. He seemed like a decent guy though, just ignorant apparently. We'll see.

Oh, that poor little snake. That is just so sad. You don't even have a good vet to get help from, & you shouldn't have to, with a brand new snake that was supposed to be healthy from the start.

Honestly, you'd be better off returning him & demanding a refund- I hope you didn't pay a lot for this snake, but there's always small claims court* if the person you got it from is as big a jerk as I'm suspecting they are. This is not a snake that should ever have been sold- maybe given away as a "rescue" but not sold. I hate to say this, but I wouldn't get real attached to this snake- this little one is not okay. (*Small claims court- you don't need a lawyer- & the amount you can sue for depends on what state you're in, but just threatening to take them to court might make them decide it's not worth refusing your refund.)

You don't need to wait for any baby snake to defecate before you feed them again -because the small rodents they're eating are mostly digestible, so they may not go for quite a while- not for many meals- see? Pinkies aren't much more than water- fuzzies have a little more nutrition to them, but with tiny bones that are barely there & little or no hair, there's still almost no "waste".

Normally we'd advise not feeding a new snake- for at least a week, due to their stress, many will refuse anyway. But this one, being skinny & all- if you can get him to eat, I'd probably go ahead & try it. There's not a lot to lose, honestly.

One more thing: if you're going to ask to return him & get a refund, you should do it right away! Otherwise, he'll claim the snake wasn't like this when he sold it & try to blame you- trust me. :rolleyes: A herp vet's opinion would be helpful for you, but costly, & apparently not available anyway.

I'd suggest you try to return the snake a.s.a.p. because IF "TLC" could fix him, it will likely take a long time- at which point, you're stuck with him. If you do try & he says "no" & you decide to try taking him to small claims court, keep these videos of the snake because pretty much ANYONE can tell this snake isn't okay. I assume the video has a date in it? If not, make sure you take one that does- you need to prove you got him this way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by supremenoser

He settles down pretty quickly after he's in the water and I literally sit there and stare at him for basically the whole duration of the bath, he's just so dehydrated I want to get fluids in him.

I just texted the guy I bought the snake from asking for more specifics. I just remember he said he kept it on a heater while he was working and I thought it was a good thing until I found out overheating can cause corkscrewing pretty quickly. He's definitely a hobbyist breeder, and clearly doesn't know his stuff very well. We'll see about returning him. I'm kind of just holding out hope that he just needs a lot of TLC. I brought up a refund with the guy but he's kind of just a guy on Craigslist so I'm not sure if he'll even give me a refund. He seemed like a decent guy though, just ignorant apparently. We'll see.

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You didn't buy a project. You were buying a pet, a pet that should have been healthy. I completely get taking in an animal in need, been there done that, but I would never pay for one.

If the breeder is being honest and didn't pass the snake off with issues it is a fair bet that the issues came from overheating. If that is the case I believe the chances of the damage being reversed is slim to none. Now if the snake was born this way that is one thing but the breeder should not being selling such an animal without divulging that information to the buyer.

Yeah this is true. I texted him and we'll see how that goes. If he doesn't respond to me tonight I'll call him tomorrow. I only paid 60$ so I guess I should've known there was a reason he was selling him so cheap. Ugh this really sucks. Nobody else really sells snakes in my area and my petco wants almost 200$ for normals last I checked but they don't even have them in stock hardly ever. This was kind of my only chance and having a beautiful snake like this. :(
If anybody knows any place that sells them online cheaply I'd appreciate the referral but with how much it costs to ship a snake I'm probably not going to be able to get another. I really hope this guy pulls through, I'm still going to do everything I can for him.

I'm sorry for the way this is turning out for you, but don't lose hope. There may be other options I can think of, but for now, you have your hands full with this one- and if or when you return this one, you'll really need to disinfect every place he was, because "who knows" what this really is at this point? That's well before you bring any other snake home & expose it to potential pathogens he left behind, okay? Your heart's in the right place, but unfortunately that guy selling this snake took advantage of you. Shameful to sell a snake like this.

I'm not sure it's fair to say the seller took advantage... Not yet. If it is from a heat pad chances are they had no idea what they had done. This may be a learning experience for all involved.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

I'm not sure it's fair to say the seller took advantage... Not yet. If it is from a heat pad chances are they had no idea what they had done. This may be a learning experience for all involved.

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Yes, that's possible, but the low price does suggest he knew something wasn't right- and remember, he was only getting the snake to eat pinkies too- at least, that's what he said, so I think feeding was difficult for quite some time- the snake didn't get thin in a day.

Yeah, the guy doesn't seem to be malicious but he also hasn't texted me back yet. Time will tell I suppose. I definitely know I need to check my snakes much more thoroughly now. I will absolutely be cleaning every inch of the area if this guy doesn't make it. I used to foster kittens so I definitely have experience scrubbing and disinfecting areas after having sick animals. Hopefully it won't come to that though. The snake has been moving a bit more in the past couple hours, he moved part way out of his hide and then went back in again later so that might be a good sign. He's still lethargic though. We'll see if he eats okay tomorrow night, my fingers are crossed.

Mine are crossed too. You're not the first person to buy an animal in haste- and I'm sure it happens a lot at these reptile expos too, because when there's a crowd of people looking for "that one" great snake for them (& at a good price), it's easy to feel pressured to buy quickly, knowing that if you keep looking & you walk away from that table, someone else may buy that snake before you can get back from seeing what else there is. ;) And some pet stores get a lot of business in "sympathy buys". It helps to take a check-list of things to look for on a snake to make sure it's healthy & to remind ourselves to slow down, really look, & ask more questions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by supremenoser

Yeah, the guy doesn't seem to be malicious but he also hasn't texted me back yet. Time will tell I suppose. I definitely know I need to check my snakes much more thoroughly now. I will absolutely be cleaning every inch of the area if this guy doesn't make it. I used to foster kittens so I definitely have experience scrubbing and disinfecting areas after having sick animals. Hopefully it won't come to that though. The snake has been moving a bit more in the past couple hours, he moved part way out of his hide and then went back in again later so that might be a good sign. He's still lethargic though. We'll see if he eats okay tomorrow night, my fingers are crossed.

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When I'm going to look at a snake to possible purchase this is what I do. I go straight to the snake and get it in my hands. I then stand there and ask all my questions and talk about whatever comes up as I'm looking over the snake from head to tail. This gives me time to really examine the animal and get a feel for the person I'm dealing with. This way you are not rushed looking at it. I have never brought an animal home I didn't completely check out.

To build on KMG's post above, here's some things I look for: (I've both bought & sold snakes over the years)
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Look at & feel for the overall muscle tone, grip strength, & balance. (corkscrewing? etc)

Overall body weight- not too thin & not over-fed.

Look for symmetry (any lumps & bumps? can be anything from an abscess to tumors)(any concave areas? -can mean broken ribs)

Kinks in the spine? (feel gently as snake slides thru your hands for any that aren't visible- all the way down to the tail tip) Not always a deal-breaker for a "pet only", but you want to know.

Stuck shed (esp. make sure eyes are clear, & check tail tip- this can indicate not only issues you'll have to take care of but may indicate how much or how little attention the previous owner paid to the snake). Look to see that the skin looks "healthy"- normal texture & no signs of infection, scale rot, fungus or burns.

Check the cloaca area for signs of prolapse, or caked on blood or feces (can indicate parasites & other illnesses).

Check the skin closely for mites or ticks.

Listen to the snake's breathing- you don't want to hear crackling, popping or whistling sounds (might be an RI) -I gently put them near my ear- but be careful if the snake is a biter ;)

Look at the snake's tongue flicks- do the tips stick together? (can be an infection) Does the flicking seem normal or impaired? Any swelling in the throat? (under the chin) can be an infection.

Look into their mouth if at all possible- ask the seller to to do this & show you. Or at least, look at the edges of the mouth- you can often see mouth-rot without fully opening their mouth.

Compare their eyes- look for abnormalities (esp. if you're planning to breed- defects could be genetic), & look for health issues (mites like to hide around the eyes)(look for retained eye caps). I like to use a mini-flashlight to check that their pupils are reactive to light also.

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A reliable breeder should furnish the following- if not offered, ASK. (If you forget some, ask later) A reliable breeder cares about their animals as well as your continued success with them. ;)

The date of hatch, gender if known, feeding record: last fed, & what was fed (rat or mouse, prey size, HOW offered -ie. live or f/t- drop fed, tongs? etc), frequency of meals.

How it was housed helps to know- snakes going from a tiny hatchling's "tub" into a well-meaning person's large tank will probably be a nervous wreck & refuse to eat.

Genetics -especially if it's important to you for future breeding, but also important if there are known associated defects (such as "spider" gene in BPs, etc)

Any illnesses, injuries, treatments for medical issues, esp. if any prescriptions (antibiotics) were EVER given. (This is because they're not without harmful side effects, including the potential for resistant germs, or poor digestion if probiotics weren't given afterwards to help normalize their digestion; also, they can be hard on the snake's liver & kidneys, & if a snake needed future treatment, it would help the vet to know what was given previously.)

(If I forgot anything, I'll add later- it's late) ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by supremenoser

Here are the pictures I have so far.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...216-154133.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...217-124227.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...217-124241.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...217-124448.jpg
https://ibb.co/DgK2Sr5
https://ibb.co/XJG2pGm
https://ibb.co/FxNkqjR
https://ibb.co/82SLNCg

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looking at your pictures that you posted the snake looks to have some injuries on its sides as well either from rubbing or from improperly trying to remove shed. I would say if you are soaking the snake you also do a betadine soak ( you can find this at Walmart) add it to the water it should look like watery tea color. as far as the feeding i don’t know how long you have had the snake but when first receiving a snake you want to allow atleast a week before you even think to feed or mess with the snake. Ball pythons can be picky eaters if they are being transitioned from live to f/t. This might take a while but the snake will eat. Also ball pythons will at times go on hunger strikes and they might not feed for a few weeks. Recommend taking snake to a vet if you are really concerned.

When purchasing a ball python as well you want to not only inspect the snake but you want really get the feel from the breeder. If you don’t get a good warm fuzzy feeling about the breeder rule of thumb don’t buy from them. I would question the genetics of the snake as well. I have pastels and super pastels and I’m not really seeing it. In future ball python purchases I would say use www.morphmarket.com. Or go to a local reptile show. I found in going to reptile shows when I started my collection. I made great connections with some experienced breeders and hobbyists that know there stuff and want to help as they are local.

I missed seeing those areas of damage on the snake's side, & I agree that either weak Betadine (or generic povidone-iodine) or Vetericyn ointment (topical & made FOR use on snakes) could be helpful. Rather than soaking, either one should easily be applied with a Q-tip. This snake is new, & while it's benefitting from some re-hydration, you also do NOT want it to drink the medicated water, as it might do at this time if soaked with Betadine added to the water. Instead of immersing the snake, it could also be placed in a container on a wet (saturated) towel for a while- the towel gives traction & the water in the towel helps hydration without as much stress as when using water alone to "soak" the snake.

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Originally Posted by Snakesnipe

In future ball python purchases I would say use www.morphmarket.com. Or go to a local reptile show.

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With either of these options (well, any animal purchase, really) a lot of research on the seller is a good idea. I don't know about ball pythons specifically, but MM has more listings with incorrect IDs on other snake species than I'm comfortable recommending a novice keeper try to catch. Some are honest mistakes (that the sellers correct when informed, if they are informed) and some are clear and certain deception for profit that sellers block messages regarding. I've not seen any of this come up in seller reviews there, so buyer beware.

Reptile expos are...interesting, having been on the other side of the table for a while.

With both these options, a breeder focusing specifically or primarily on your species of choice is typically a better bet than a breeder of many diverse species (which I am, so this isn't a self-serving plug), and either of those are 100X better than a flipper (someone who buys and resells many species, most of which they are typically only faintly familiar with, and specimens that they do not know the history of first hand).

OP, I'm glad your snake seems to be doing better. Adorable little guy. :)

So I see the new posts about the injuries to his sides. I'll do the betadine if he lives through the night but I don't think his chances are good. He seems to be having seizures now, he coils up into a tight corkscrew like all his muscles are contracting without him doing it. Also I don't know what's causing it but suddenly his belly is all contracted up into him making him into a U shape, like he's a long bowl. I doubt he'll even eat tonight but I'll try anyways.

I got a hold of the breeder and he apologized and is going to give me a refund. He admitted to knowing the snake wasn't doing very well and said he shouldn't have sold him. I wish he would've told me that in the first place. :mad: But i guess all I can do now is try to keep him alive though I'm not very optimistic.

In the case this snake doesn't make it does anybody know what the best solution to clean and sanitize everything is? And is there an amount of time I should wait to make sure any germs have died before getting another snake? I don't know if I'm going to get another one if he doesn't make it, but I figure it's good to ask. :(

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Originally Posted by supremenoser

So I see the new posts about the injuries to his sides. I'll do the betadine if he lives through the night but I don't think his chances are good. He seems to be having seizures now, he coils up into a tight corkscrew like all his muscles are contracting without him doing it. Also I don't know what's causing it but suddenly his belly is all contracted up into him making him into a U shape, like he's a long bowl. I doubt he'll even eat tonight but I'll try anyways.

I got a hold of the breeder and he apologized and is going to give me a refund. He admitted to knowing the snake wasn't doing very well and said he shouldn't have sold him. I wish he would've told me that in the first place. :mad: But i guess all I can do now is try to keep him alive though I'm not very optimistic.

In the case this snake doesn't make it does anybody know what the best solution to clean and sanitize everything is? And is there an amount of time I should wait to make sure any germs have died before getting another snake? I don't know if I'm going to get another one if he doesn't make it, but I figure it's good to ask. :(

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Well the seller doesn't sound all bad....just a novice it seems.

From what you describe it sounds like a neuro issues caused by overheating. I have seen it in snake before and it looked just as you described. I doubt the snake makes it much longer and honestly I would not try to feed it and cause any more stress to its fragile state.

Looking for a positive being it seems to be from overheating you don't have to worry as much about things left behind. I would clean everything with bleach and water as that is my main go to.

I'm so sorry, but you've done what you could for this snake, & I'm really glad that you talked to the guy you got him from- I hope he comes through with the refund. It might be he really needed the money- but yes, it was dishonest. I doubt he's able to eat or that the "wound care" will matter, but it's easy enough if you have some Betadine on hand. You never know?

I agree that from your description, this snake isn't likely to survive. The guy you got him from actually bred this snake? or was he just "flipping" (re-selling) him? Is this the only sick snake he has? NOT that you can believe much of anything he says now- so while I'd love to believe this snake was merely overheated, I also have to say that it's potentially IBD, & if I were you (thinking about another pet) I'd assume the worst & clean as if that's what it was. The only way to confirm it would be expensive testing & you'd need to see a vet, so I doubt that's in your plans.

It's been a while since we discussed IBD on here & I've never dealt with it- there might be some newer info now- I'll get back to you or you can do some searching also, but it used to be recommended to wait months (6?) or even a year (I think?) to be sure your home is safe for a new healthy snake. Unfortunately, BPs are like the "canary in the coal mine"- they succumb rather quickly to this nasty disease. (Some boas or other snakes can carry it for a while without symptoms- maybe even share it without ever getting sick too?)

It's really hard to see a helpless creature in this kind of shape- I must say, you seem to be handling this quite well. :(

More information: If you've never heard of IBD, it's not all that common but it's most every snake-keepers "nightmare" because it's contagious (among snakes) & fatal, not to mention that it can also be horrible to watch a snake with this.

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/exoti...es-of-reptiles

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...&highlight=IBD

and https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...=1#post2765465

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I'm so sorry, but you've done what you could for this snake, & I'm really glad that you talked to the guy you got him from- I hope he comes through with the refund. It might be he really needed the money- but yes, it was dishonest. I doubt he's able to eat or that the "wound care" will matter, but it's easy enough if you have some Betadine on hand. You never know?

I agree that from your description, this snake isn't likely to survive. The guy you got him from actually bred this snake? or was he just "flipping" (re-selling) him? Is this the only sick snake he has? NOT that you can believe much of anything he says now- so while I'd love to believe this snake was merely overheated, I also have to say that it's potentially IBD, & if I were you (thinking about another pet) I'd assume the worst & clean as if that's what it was. The only way to confirm it would be expensive testing & you'd need to see a vet, so I doubt that's in your plans.

It's been a while since we discussed IBD on here & I've never dealt with it- there might be some newer info now- I'll get back to you or you can do some searching also, but it used to be recommended to wait months (6?) or even a year (I think?) to be sure your home is safe for a new healthy snake. Unfortunately, BPs are like the "canary in the coal mine"- they succumb rather quickly to this nasty disease. (Some boas or other snakes can carry it for a while without symptoms- maybe even share it without ever getting sick too?)

It's really hard to see a helpless creature in this kind of shape- I must say, you seem to be handling this quite well. :(

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He bred the snake, he apparently has a ton of others he keeps too who are apparently fine so maybe it's not IBD but I'll still wait a couple months and make sure the whole area is scrubbed clean. I'll do some research on it as well.

It really sucks, especially seeing him convulse and struggle. I'm probably handling it better because I used to foster kittens and a whole lot of them were sick and ended up dying so you kinda get desensitized to it I guess. Still really sucks though, and it's really discouraging. The reason I was able to get a snake was because I ended up having to surrender the fish I had for years because I have a spine injury and can't lift water to do water changes and the local fish store didn't want to have to sell the tank so they just took the fish so I have this tank that's perfect for a snake so that made me feel better about having to give up the fish but now this. Anyways, that's the story, it's been a sad week. I'll keep holding out hope that the little guy might pull through. Thanks again for all your help, you guys have all been so beyond helpful and welcoming, i really appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by supremenoser

He bred the snake, he apparently has a ton of others he keeps too who are apparently fine so maybe it's not IBD but I'll still wait a couple months and make sure the whole area is scrubbed clean. I'll do some research on it as well....

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I'm wasn't kidding when I say that among snake breeders (especially BPs) that IBD is something everyone fears because it can wipe out a breeder's collection & investment or livelihood- so we try hard NOT to jump to any conclusions when someone has a snake with neurological symptoms (corkscrewing- unable to right itself- etc.) because it's NOT the only thing that can cause that.

Besides overheating, the over-exposure to some chemicals- pesticides- can sure cause this too. But I have to bring it up now so you're aware that it's a possibility with the symptoms this snake has. It's also underweight & the inability to eat is an issue with IBD too. So since it's unlikely you'll test for it, & may want to get another snake... Your source of this snake- no telling how much he knows, & maybe he's in denial & wanted to blame over-heating- so I would just rather have you be "safe than sorry" in case this snake is NOT suffering from a "heat injury". There's no way we can know for sure right now. Again, so sorry...

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

OP, I'm glad your snake seems to be doing better.

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I wrote this without having watched the corkscrewing video. I was focusing on the couple hints that he may be coming around, but it doesn't sound good at this point. I'm really sorry for your situation.

As for disinfection: after all soiling has been removed with soap and water (likely none in this case, as I assume the snake hasn't pooped), soaking all items in a 10% bleach solution for 10 minutes is effective (that is, mix one part Regular Chlorox Disinfecting Bleach with 9 parts tap water and use the resulting solution to disinfect). Rinse well afterwards. Substrate and such should be discarded, but plastic and wood items can be disinfected and reused.

Both nidovirus and arenavirus (the most concerning pathogens for pythons, I believe) are enveloped viruses, and as such pretty easy to inactivate, though this disinfection protocol should be effective against virtually any pathogen. The solution will also damage your skin and eat holes in your clothes, so use caution and keep children and pets far away.

Alternately, non porous surfaces can be disinfected with a 70% - 90% alcohol spray, allowed to air dry. The spray has to contact all surfaces, and so for some items the bleach soak is best.

So unfortunately the little guy died a couple hours ago, I went to feed him and he was totally limp and not breathing at all. I watched him for a while just to make sure but yeah he's definitely dead. I just got done thoroughly cleaning the area, soaked the hides and everything in that bleach solution that was recommended and scrubbed the tank and lights and everything near the tank with alcohol. I also used disinfectant spray on the carpet and all surrounding furniture and everything I came in contact with after getting the snake. I'll probably go through and disinfect everything again once a day or at least once a week until I get a new snake. I've said it a million times but thank you to everybody who replied to the thread, I would've been so lost without you guys and your wonderful help. Hopefully I'll be posting about a new healthy, happy ball python sometime soon.

What a rotten way to start off with keeping snakes- so sorry- I hope the poor little guy can rest in peace now. :(

FYI- snakes can take a long time to actually pass, even when they appear dead. Not that I'd expect him to make a come-back though.

Good job on the disinfection- just in case. Let's hope you have much happier snake-times ahead. (It could hardly be worse.) We'll look forward to your updates. ;)

Well that sucks but it's what I expected. Losing a pet is never fun and I've certainly lost my share. It's all part of it though and you will bounce back.

I'm so sorry for your loss and all of the stress. You went above and beyond trying to get the care this one needed as soon as you realized something was wrong. Thank you for trying so hard.

I know it's not something you want to hear immediately... but until you do hear back from the breeder again, I would hold on to the body just in case.

I hope we'll hear some happier news soon.

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

I'm so sorry for your loss and all of the stress. You went above and beyond trying to get the care this one needed as soon as you realized something was wrong. Thank you for trying so hard.

I know it's not something you want to hear immediately... but until you do hear back from the breeder again, I would hold on to the body just in case.

I hope we'll hear some happier news soon.

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Definitely This. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I read through this thread all 46 posts and agree with all the information that my fellow keepers have given. The loss of a pet / breeder animal is never easy. Especially under circumstances such as these. I was so touched by the OP story that I am going out on a limb to offer to him/ her one of the baby pastels that I will have soon. My super pastel 100% het pied is gravid from a pairing to my visual pastel leopard clown. Totally on me and we can share pertinent information in a private message as far as the details are concerned.


Better to give than receive. My answer to the call for Help!

I'm sorry about your loss. It's a very difficult situation and you did all that you could to try and make it better. If you're up to it, hopefully you get another snake sometime.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

My answer to the call for Help!

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Way to answer the call, Albert!

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Way to answer the call, Albert!

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Private message sent! :gj: