Fogger, yes or no?

Hello! I currently live in a desert state and have been having trouble keeping humidity up in my Ball Python's tank. I can spray the whole tank down and it'll be at 80% for about 15 minutes and then it'll drop back down to 10% because of how dry it is out here. I use Eco Earth substrate because when I lived in Ohio (I moved last year) it kept the humidity perfect for my previous Ball Python.

The fogger is currently hooked up to a guage that keeps the humidity between 50-60%.

I hooked it up a few days ago and my Ball Python's tank has hung out at about 58% and it all seems to be working. The fog isn't super thick, but it is visible. Just tonight I went into my office and turned the light on and my ball python was on his tree seemingly basking but I'm worried he might be doing it because he can't breath well in the fog so he's getting out to breath. Could he just be basking?

I'm just worried, hopefully some of you can give me some advice!

Thank you so much!

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/eogabQi.jpg

There's not much fog in the cage at the moment because the fogger turns off once it reaches the threshold and the fog disappears pretty quick once it turns off. Does he look like he's just basking and relaxing? I haven't seen him yawning or anything, I'm still worried. (Sorry for the low quality picture, my phone really didn't want to take it!)

Greetings!

Maintaining humidity levels in an entire enclosure can definitely be tricky. Unlike some other types of snakes, ball pythons do not seem to require a sustained humidity level in order to be comfortable...as such a humid hide is probably your most straightforward solution. Nothing fancy is required for a humid hide: it could be a plastic container with a hole cut out and filled with a moist substrate (e.g. sphagnum moss) and then the moisture levels checked on a regular basis.

Over time I have personally stopped paying attention to humidity levels and my only concession is that every enclosure has a water source that is large/deep enough for the ball python to fully submerge itself within. I don't maintain a thermal gradient (ambient=80F throughout) so it is irrelevant where my water bowl sits. It works for me.

As for your second photo your bp looks like it is just 'hanging out', the body is relaxed and the head is propped up--nothing unusual going on. :)

Consider purchasing a “Versa-Top” for your tank enclosure. It’s a folding glass top that fits on the inner lips of the tank. It comes with a plastic attachment that slides onto the glass. Very useful and eliminates the humidity issues in tanks that house reptiles. When I find a link I’ll post it for you. Petco, Pet Smart should have them in stock.

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Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

Greetings!

Maintaining humidity levels in an entire enclosure can definitely be tricky. Unlike some other types of snakes, ball pythons do not seem to require a sustained humidity level in order to be comfortable...as such a humid hide is probably your most straightforward solution. Nothing fancy is required for a humid hide: it could be a plastic container with a hole cut out and filled with a moist substrate (e.g. sphagnum moss) and then the moisture levels checked on a regular basis.

Over time I have personally stopped paying attention to humidity levels and my only concession is that every enclosure has a water source that is large/deep enough for the ball python to fully submerge itself within. I don't maintain a thermal gradient (ambient=80F throughout) so it is irrelevant where my water bowl sits. It works for me.

As for your second photo your bp looks like it is just 'hanging out', the body is relaxed and the head is propped up--nothing unusual going on. :)

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He's never hung out like this before the fogger was put in. :/ I'm wondering if maybe he likes it? The reason I'm so worried is because I got him a little over two months ago, he's pretty young, and he still hasn't shed. I was thinking it was a humidity problem so I'm hoping he starts showing signs of shedding with the fogger keeping the humidity between 50 and 60%...

There are humidifiers in my home (not in my BP's enclosure though) and during a handling session I once let my BP investigate the humidifier fog - he puffed a bit when the water vapour got into his nose and retreated from it quickly so I got the sense he didn't like it. I have suspicion that it could potentially eventually lead to respiratory problems if the snake was inhaling water vapour like that every day for multiple hours over the long term so I personally would recommend against it.

Instead, maybe you could tell us more about your current enclosure set up so we can give ideas on how to increase the humidity without a fogger? I'm guessing you have a glass tank with a screen top, have you tried covering most of the screen top? Albert Clark's recommendation to get the Versa-Top is a good way to help keep humidity in the tank. Adding a humid hide is another way to ensure your BP has access to higher levels of humidity when he needs it.

As for your BP's basking pose, he looks to be relaxed and it could be nothing, but the way he has his head raised up like that could be a sign that he's finding it hard to breathe - snakes with RIs will do that (not saying your BP has an RI though, RIs come with other symptoms and sometimes snakes also just rest their heads like that to relax and it doesn't mean anything :) ).

I would avoid using a fogger, just for the same reasons already illuminated by Luvyna above- not to mention that BPs don't live in a foggy area in the wild- even then, it wouldn't be 24/7 either.

I will say I was mostly concerned because I've never seen him bask before, like at all. He never comes out of his hide and this was the first time. After a bit he even crawled closer to the fogger and decided to use the hide near it which he hasn't used in a while. I keep seeing people saying they're worried about RI with a fogger, but I also keep researching and can't find anyone who's experienced it. I only find people who are worried, but not people who've had it happen.

My tank screen top is completely covered with foil except where his ceramic heat lamp is to allow some air to vent and to allow the heat in but not out as easily. The air is so dry here that running a humidifier in the room does little to nothing because it doesn't reach the tank before the air dries out. As stated, I do live in a desert. Humidity is uncommon and very hard to maintain which is why I went with the fogger.

I replaced the water in the fogger with purified water when he was basking because I was worried about contaminants in the tap water I used originally. Shortly after he came down off his perch and that's when he moved to the hide closer to the fogger. I wonder if he likes it better with the purified water?

I just really want to get him to shed. It's been over two months and he's still a juvenile. He should have shed twice by now. With the fogger, his humidity and temps are now perfect day and night. I also have the fogger set to very low so it's not a thick fog at all. It's a barely visible fog and the moment the fogger shuts down the fog vanishes only leaving behind the humidity. (It shuts down when the humidity gauge gets near 60%)

I'm worried, but I figured I'd give it another week or so maybe to see if he starts showing signs of shedding or not. He's also still eating fine with the fogger, he snapped up a mouse yesterday without issue so I think I'm gonna hang onto this setup a little longer as he seems fine so far. If he starts showing signs of issues, I'll obviously change strategy but for now, this is all I have.

I will also add that I have tried moss and a lot of it but it dries out in less than a day. I might try a mossy hide next to see if he'll use that to help the humidity but, like I've said, I'm gonna hang on to the fogger for now and see how this goes.

Thank you guys for your help, I really do appreciate and I have taken all of your guys' advice into account, I promise! And it truly is appreciated!

Sometimes you do just have to "go out on that limb" & try things that may work for you but not others. Obviously, we're not saying for sure that it's wrong- but mostly concerned that it could be overdone. I used to live in the desert for many years- I can appreciate what you're dealing with.

But as far as your snake shedding- he'll go into shed when his body is ready- when he's out-grown his current skin. Are you sure you're feeding the right size prey, & often enough? Just adding humidity won't create a shed cycle- it will just facilitate the process once he's grown enough & ready to shed his "old clothes".

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Sometimes you do just have to "go out on that limb" & try things that may work for you but not others. Obviously, we're not saying for sure that it's wrong- but mostly concerned that it could be overdone. I used to live in the desert for many years- I can appreciate what you're dealing with.

But as far as your snake shedding- he'll go into shed when his body is ready- when he's out-grown his current skin. Are you sure you're feeding the right size prey, & often enough? Just adding humidity won't create a shed cycle- it will just facilitate the process once he's grown enough & ready to shed his "old clothes".

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I don't have his exact weight on hand but the last time I weighed him he was only big enough for hoppers. I've been feeding him a hopper once a week. We have a small pet store in town that's very good with their reptiles and they said a hopper was the right size for him. I could try feeding him two but it seems like one would be enough right now and I'm worried about over-feeding.

No, I wouldn't worry about it- just stick with one hopper. Snakes don't take the same amount of time between sheds when growing- they can have growth spurts (& slow-downs) just like we do.

Nature generally knows what it's doing- just be patient. That was the only thing I could think of- I didn't mean to make you worry though. See, every once in a while, we find out that someone thinks they're feeding the right size, but they're not & they're way underfeeding without realizing it. You're not, so "stick with the program". ;)

[IMG]Aqueon Versa Top Hinged Glass Top 4.1 (924) OverviewVideosStoresReviewsDetails Main Results Image Carousel Image 1 of Aqueon Versa Top Hinged Glass Top Image 2 of Aqueon Versa Top Hinged Glass Top[/IMG]


Available @ Petco, PetSmart.

Remember the tops are matched with the gallon size of your enclosure. Hope this helped.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

[IMG]Aqueon Versa Top Hinged Glass Top 4.1 (924) OverviewVideosStoresReviewsDetails Main Results Image Carousel Image 1 of Aqueon Versa Top Hinged Glass Top Image 2 of Aqueon Versa Top Hinged Glass Top[/IMG]


Available @ Petco, PetSmart.

Remember the tops are matched with the gallon size of your enclosure. Hope this helped.

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Good idea for another (best) way to retain humidity, but just FYI- as one who has lived (& bought glass tanks) in different parts of the country- let me just suggest that anyone thinking about buying such a top for their aquarium to...

first- measure your actual glass tank to make sure that top will fit correctly. If you can, double-check the brand of your aquarium, because as I've personally discovered, the dimensions of different brand tanks of the same capacity may NOT be the same.

Just know that a 40 or 50 gal. (ie. any size) tank of one brand may not have the same measurements as one from another brand. One may be a little longer with a little less width, or vice versa. I know because when I moved across country, I brought my tops only, rather than trying to ship so many glass tanks (you wouldn't believe the cost estimates I got!) & assumed I could just buy new tanks on which they'd fit, but no such luck....:rolleyes:

I thought I was able to get a regular normal link but I wasn’t. Sorry. I just figured you could use the search bar when you went to the website. Just in case.

Personally I have one, but it's set has both a thermostat and humidity monitoring. What I did was drill a hole in my plexiglass and screen, and stuck the hose in the back corner. I see it to right before the point you see steam, it may run longer, but you don't see the smoke. My BP hasn't had a partial shed since I added it. Again, this is just what I do, if I didn't my tank humidity was in the low 40's due to the Ceramic heater on top.

Another option is to just consider “misting” on a daily basis as part of your routine husbandry checks. The versa top makes it easier to maintain.

I will say that I was misting the tank about 3 times a day to no avail.

However, I should add that tonight I lifted his hide and VOILA! A full shed, curled up right under the hide. So, this being his feeding day, I took him out and he quickly snapped up a hopper with no hesitation! He must've shed within the last day or two and I skipped last weeks feeding because his eyes were milky and he couldn't see so he was a bit extra hungry this week.

However, I do have a question. I added a new log that is just a small ceramic one. Not really a hide, just sort of something he can skate under when crossing his tank as there was a huge bare spot. I felt better putting it in so that he could get from his hot hide to his cold hide without being seen.

I'm curious, do new decorations cause a bit of stress? When I put him down in his tank tonight (Shortly before feeding) He began rubbing his head on things like his tree and water bowl (not the ceramic log). He did investigate the ceramic log a bit before continuing to rub his head on his branch. I always worry, but he did eat just fine and his shed was completely full.

Could it be that this is residual since he JUST finished shedding? Or could it be stress? When should I start to worry?

Sorry, I'm a worry wart and I can't help it!

Thank you!

Congrats on his "shed & fed". :D Usually more cage furnishings elicit curiosity & a better sense of security- not stress. Have you checked his shed skin to make sure he got ALL the old skin off his head? How about his chin, around his mouth? How about his eye-caps? Because I think that would be a more likely reason for him to be rubbing his head. How about mites? Any mites around making his head itch? (check closely around his eyes, chin, nostrils- sometimes they leave a bit of old skin in their nostrils too.)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Congrats on his "shed & fed". :D Usually more cage furnishings elicit curiosity & a better sense of security- not stress. Have you checked his shed skin to make sure he got ALL the old skin off his head? How about his chin, around his mouth? How about his eye-caps? Because I think that would be a more likely reason for him to be rubbing his head. How about mites? Any mites around making his head itch? (check closely around his eyes, chin, nostrils- sometimes they leave a bit of old skin in their nostrils too.)

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I tried to get a close look, but I couldn't see anything out of the ordinary :/ I wonder if it may have been because he was hungry and he was stressed because of that? As I said, I hadn't fed him since his eyes were milky so he missed a week and usually gets fed weekly since he's young. After he was rubbing, I was thawing a mouse and he did start investigating the new log a little bit before I fed him. He snapped it up way faster than usual for him.

Another reason he might have rubbed his face is that he might have gotten water in his heat-sensing pits when he drank (or from the fogger, come to think of it).

If this had been AFTER he ate, I've often seen snakes rub their face after they eat- and I assume that's instinctive, to remove the scent of prey from their face. (If a snake happened to come face to face with another snake in the wild & his face smelled like prey, you can see how that might not end well, because snakes trust scent more than eyesight. And since snakes normally swallow prey head-first, that means the last part of the rodent they swallow is the stinky end that can leave more scent on their face- rodents use their urine to scent mark, btw.)

Anyway, I'm out of ideas, so...don't worry about it. :D Snakes can do random things too. Just to confuse us...:confuzd:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Another reason he might have rubbed his face is that he might have gotten water in his heat-sensing pits when he drank (or from the fogger, come to think of it).

If this had been AFTER he ate, I've often seen snakes rub their face after they eat- and I assume that's instinctive, to remove the scent of prey from their face. (If a snake happened to come face to face with another snake in the wild & his face smelled like prey, you can see how that might not end well, because snakes trust scent more than eyesight. And since snakes normally swallow prey head-first, that means the last part of the rodent they swallow is the stinky end that can leave more scent on their face- rodents use their urine to scent mark, btw.)

Anyway, I'm out of ideas, so...don't worry about it. :D Snakes can do random things too. Just to confuse us...:confuzd:

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Oh! Maybe it was the water thing! I moved his water bowl and while he was investigating he did seem to drop his head in the water before he started rubbing. That does make sense, but I'll keep an eye out just in case! Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Stofey

Oh! Maybe it was the water thing! I moved his water bowl and while he was investigating he did seem to drop his head in the water before he started rubbing. That does make sense, but I'll keep an eye out just in case! Thanks!

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The longer you live with & watch snakes, the easier it gets to "read" them- you're obviously watching & it will get easier to know what's going on with him. (Now if only I could figure out people? :snake:)