How are people able to sell reticulated pythons at shows in Alabama?

A while back now, reticulated pythons we’re banned in Alabama, yet last time I went to a show I saw them there for sale. How is this possible? They were banned all the way back in 2020.


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Sometimes there are ways around the laws like a permit or the size of the snake (in my state, Ohio, they're legal under 12'). But, many breeders don't keep up with the laws and nobody enforces them so they are likely going to keep breeding them.

I assume that the sellers are letting buyers take the heat if they buy something that's illegal- it's up to the buyer to "know the laws where they are". You'd think they wouldn't be allowed to sell them at all in AL- ? Call me suspicious, but I sure hope it's not a sting operation? :confusd: But for a real answer, you should be asking your state dept. of fish & game. As Erie_herps said, maybe a special permit allows some to still buy them, but who knows?

For clarity, here is the legislative text:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/regulati...ode-r-220-2-26

Regarding this clause:

"(1) No person, firm, corporation, partnership, or association shall possess, sell, offer for sale, import, bring, release, or cause to be brought or imported into the State of Alabama any of the following live fish or animals: (...) Any species of bird, mammal, reptile, or amphibian listed as injurious wildlife under the Lacey Act ( 18 U.S.C. 42 ) from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service;"

That list of injurious wildlife is here:

https://www.fws.gov/injuriouswildlif..._Listed_IW.pdf

There are all kinds of illegal herps for sale in public view, some actually illegal in light of laws that aren't as foolishly misguided as this one from Alabama.

So apparently the sellers are assuming that LE will be too busy to bother with them, & just taking a chance. Not smart. :rolleyes:

Ok, I thought there may have been some sort of loop hole in the law which allowed them to be kept, I remember when the van first came out I was still seeing tegus and the person selling them explained to me that it was fine at the time as long as they were micro chipped. Still could be, or like you say they’re just ignoring the law which seems like a terrible idea if you ask me. Well, there go my dreams of getting a retic :(


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Originally Posted by BallBoa

Ok, I thought there may have been some sort of loop hole in the law which allowed them to be kept, I remember when the van first came out I was still seeing tegus and the person selling them explained to me that it was fine at the time as long as they were micro chipped. Still could be, or like you say they’re just ignoring the law which seems like a terrible idea if you ask me. Well, there go my dreams of getting a retic :(


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Unfortunately, there are some people around that will tell you anything to make a sale. You're smart to do your own checking- as they say, "ignorance of the law" isn't a valid defense. I would hate to run afoul of these laws- it's just not worth it. But rather than fixate on a snake you cannot keep, look at all the awesome ones that you can.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Unfortunately, there are some people around that will tell you anything to make a sale. You're smart to do your own checking- as they say, "ignorance of the law" isn't a valid defense. I would hate to run afoul of these laws- it's just not worth it. But rather than fixate on a snake you cannot keep, look at all the awesome ones that you can.

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Agree 100% with this. I understand we all get frustrated when state and federal governments ban certain animals, but if we try to find loop holes and circumvent these laws it's just going to make things worse. My worry when I see people selling animals I know to be illegal at expos is that the expos will start having issues finding venues to host them, or worse that they'll just get shut down all together. If we're not spending money on these animals they'll stop bringing them, and in a small way we'll protect at least some aspects of our hobby.

I am of the mindset that certain reptiles just weren’t meant to be kept in our homes. This is only my 2 cents and not to offend anyone but most of the giant snakes and definitely the venomous species really do belong in zoos. There has been multiple reports of keepers of venomous reptiles being tagged by their captives. Some reports of venomous reptiles that have escaped ! As far as the giant reptiles, can we really feed them adequately when you read about the sizes of prey that they are truly capable of swallowing? :confusd:

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

I am of the mindset that certain reptiles just weren’t meant to be kept in our homes. This is only my 2 cents and not to offend anyone but most of the giant snakes and definitely the venomous species really do belong in zoos. There has been multiple reports of keepers of venomous reptiles being tagged by their captives. Some reports of venomous reptiles that have escaped ! As far as the giant reptiles, can we really feed them adequately when you read about the sizes of prey that they are truly capable of swallowing? :confusd:

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I think it's not only about feeding giant snakes adequately (though that does get expensive) but also, how do you handle them safely*, & how do you house them securely & with enough space in a home environment? *It takes a team effort to do so safely, & that team needs to be experienced. An awful lot of people are attracted to these animals, only to later find themselves in over their heads & not willing to admit it.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

I am of the mindset that certain reptiles just weren’t meant to be kept in our homes. This is only my 2 cents and not to offend anyone but most of the giant snakes and definitely the venomous species really do belong in zoos. There has been multiple reports of keepers of venomous reptiles being tagged by their captives. Some reports of venomous reptiles that have escaped ! As far as the giant reptiles, can we really feed them adequately when you read about the sizes of prey that they are truly capable of swallowing? :confusd:

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I think that these animals can be kept just like any other reptile as long as many precautions are set, but I won't get into this too much. I think that most keepers shouldn't keep reticulated pythons since they need gigantic enclosures. I hate seeing where people keep them in enclosures so small (like 6') that they can't do much except curl up. But I think people should be able to keep them. If someone wants to dedicate an entire room to a gigantic enclosure then they can (I know of people doing this). But an important thing to note are super dwarf retics. They can be easily kept in a 4x2x3 enclosure, something that many keepers can provide. Many legislations fail to see this and just ban retics even though super dwarfs can easily be kept and mainlands can be kept (but not easily). Something else that hobbyist breeders might not think of is that not all of the eggs need to be kept. If you want to breed mainland retics you can easily just keep a few eggs just to have the experience of raising the babies. Unfortunately some breeders hatch hundreds of babies per year and don't tell buyers about how large they get as adults. I don't know of any breeders doing this but I'm sure that once a breeder has gotten overwhelmed with babies and didn't have the space or money to house them all and some were culled and thrown away.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I think it's not only about feeding giant snakes adequately (though that does get expensive) but also, how do you handle them safely*, & how do you house them securely & with enough space in a home environment? *It takes a team effort to do so safely, & that team needs to be experienced. An awful lot of people are attracted to these animals, only to later find themselves in over their heads & not willing to admit it.

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Most retic keepers feed the snakes pigs or rabbits. 4-6 people are usually required to safely handle the snake.

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Originally Posted by Erie_herps

I think that these animals can be kept just like any other reptile as long as many precautions are set, but I won't get into this too much. I think that most keepers shouldn't keep reticulated pythons since they need gigantic enclosures. I hate seeing where people keep them in enclosures so small (like 6') that they can't do much except curl up. But I think people should be able to keep them. If someone wants to dedicate an entire room to a gigantic enclosure then they can (I know of people doing this). But an important thing to note are super dwarf retics. They can be easily kept in a 4x2x3 enclosure, something that many keepers can provide. Many legislations fail to see this and just ban retics even though super dwarfs can easily be kept and mainlands can be kept (but not easily). Something else that hobbyist breeders might not think of is that not all of the eggs need to be kept. If you want to breed mainland retics you can easily just keep a few eggs just to have the experience of raising the babies. Unfortunately some breeders hatch hundreds of babies per year and don't tell buyers about how large they get as adults. I don't know of any breeders doing this but I'm sure that once a breeder has gotten overwhelmed with babies and didn't have the space or money to house them all and some were culled and thrown away.



Most retic keepers feed the snakes pigs or rabbits. 4-6 people are usually required to safely handle the snake.

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This whole topic of the giant reptiles and the venomous is a Pandora’s box of views and controversies. I know escapes of both, and the venomous bites inflicted, that always make the evening news are detrimental to the business and the hobby unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

This whole topic of the giant reptiles and the venomous is a Pandora’s box of views and controversies. I know escapes of both, and the venomous bites inflicted, that always make the evening news are detrimental to the business and the hobby unfortunately.

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For nearly all people giant and venomous snakes are terrible choices. But there are those few people that put in 5 years with venomous snakes, are ready for them, and then put in 5 more years of training. If people are responsible and invest in venomous enclosures and secure the room (which is required for hots) then escaping isn't a huge concern except for keeper negligence. It's also way too easy to get a venomous snake. Gaboon vipers are not a good intro to hots but you can get them for $200.

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Originally Posted by Erie_herps

For nearly all people giant and venomous snakes are terrible choices. But there are those few people that put in 5 years with venomous snakes, are ready for them, and then put in 5 more years of training. If people are responsible and invest in venomous enclosures and secure the room (which is required for hots) then escaping isn't a huge concern except for keeper negligence. It's also way too easy to get a venomous snake. Gaboon vipers are not a good intro to hots but you can get them for $200.

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Operative words are responsible vs. irresponsible and keeper negligence. Very controversial in all cases. :handshake

For what it is worth, "injurious" in this context means "injurious to the interests of human beings, agriculture, horticulture, forestry, wildlife or wildlife resources of the United States" (source). This is almost entirely a matter of avoiding and minimizing enviromental damage from invasive species -- hence the listings of big tropical constrictors following on the coattails of the burmese python situation in FL, the listings of invasive aquatic species, and the recent salamander listings.

There's no reason to believe that the risk of personal harm underpins the FWS listings; there's no substantive discussion of it in this history of listings, and reptile species more directly dangerous to human health aren't listed.

Whether state lawmakers misunderstand this use of 'injurious' is another question, of course.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Operative words are responsible vs. irresponsible and keeper negligence. Very controversial in all cases. :handshake

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I agree, unfortunately lawmakers base their laws on irresponsible keepers, so everybody has to suffer the consequences.