Arboreal species for a 4x2x2 enclosure

Mods... If this is the wrong forum for this question, please move it to the appropriate section. I couldn't find a forum good to discuss multiple different species.

What would be a good arboreal species that would work in a 4x2x2 minimum enclosure, but possibly as tall as 4' (4' enclosure height, that is). The larger the species for this sized enclosure, the better, but I am flexible.

Any recommendations?

I already have a Ball Python, Mexican Black Kingsnake, Boa Imperator, and a Woman Python... all females.

Amazon Basin Emerald Tree Boa!

Unless you don't have $8-10k for a snake.....Then maybe a big Carpet Python.

Man I want a Amazon Basin!

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Originally Posted by KMG

Amazon Basin Emerald Tree Boa!

Unless you don't have $8-10k for a snake.....Then maybe a big Carpet Python.

Man I want a Amazon Basin!

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I forgot to mention.... would prefer a snake that does well being handled often. I know ATB's are handleable, but I'd like something a bit more interactive. I already have a few ideas... but like to see what others say... sometimes we unintentionally overlook a particular species.

Agree on the carpet python. Would love a Bredli Carpet Python.

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Originally Posted by Charles8088

I forgot to mention.... would prefer a snake that does well being handled often. I know ATB's are handleable, but I'd like something a bit more interactive. I already have a few ideas... but like to see what others say... sometimes we unintentionally overlook a particular species.

Agree on the carpet python. Would love a Bredli Carpet Python.

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Yeah a ETB is not one I want to be tagged by. Luckily my Northern is awesome. I don't think she's even hissed at me before, not that I can remember.

Not an arboreal, but on your want list and quite handleable: Black Milksnake. I have a breeding pair, and they're quite enjoyable captives. I keep mine in 48 x 24 x 12" enclosures, but an extra foot or two of height would be well used.

Rainbow boas are another arboreal-ish possibility -- I keep mine in 48 x 24 x 18", but again more height would be used.

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Originally Posted by Charles8088

I forgot to mention.... would prefer a snake that does well being handled often. I know ATB's are handleable, but I'd like something a bit more interactive. I already have a few ideas... but like to see what others say... sometimes we unintentionally overlook a particular species...

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With this in mind, I'll toss in a name that isn't typically classified as arboreal, but which may fit your criteria, judging from the one I have. I'm not so sure about the 4' height, but my 4' long, solo 14 year old female certainly uses her 2' of tank height to frequently bask on her branches under a heat source*, & what's more, she handles beautifully without biting & happily eats f/t from tongs. She is VERY strong when handled & is therefore well-adapted to climbing branches. (*UTH is also provided & used occasionally, & btw, she is always fed while basking on her branches- that's how comfortable she is there.)

Nice iridescence is a bonus with Antaresia too. I'm talking about my Australian spotted python. ;) I have taken her to lengthy public "meet-&-greets" that lasted hours- she was docile & like a pro with all the handling. She does like the warmth of human hands anyway, & she seems to be naturally curious- not shy. In a taller enclosure with branches, I can picture her using the space, along with maybe a "sky-hide" & a basket wired to branches for a platform, as I do for some other snakes I have.

You might also consider a nice American rat snake- such as an Everglades (beautiful orange-tend to be feisty, especially when young, but handles pretty well when raised from hatchling) or a Baird's rat snake (grey-silver with orange/yellow- generally very docile snakes- great for "public relations"). Either of these are likely to out-grow this 4 x 2 x 2 enclosure, but they'll take quite a while doing so. Just a thought- most rat snakes are very under-rated, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

With this in mind, I'll toss in a name that isn't typically classified as arboreal, but which may fit your criteria, judging from the one I have. I'm not so sure about the 4' height, but my 4' long, solo 14 year old female certainly uses her 2' of tank height to frequently bask on her branches under a heat source*, & what's more, she handles beautifully without biting & happily eats f/t from tongs. She is VERY strong when handled & is therefore well-adapted to climbing branches. (*UTH is also provided & used occasionally, & btw, she is always fed while basking on her branches- that's how comfortable she is there.)

Nice iridescence is a bonus with Antaresia too. I'm talking about my Australian spotted python. ;) I have taken her to lengthy public "meet-&-greets" that lasted hours- she was docile & like a pro with all the handling. She does like the warmth of human hands anyway, & she seems to be naturally curious- not shy. In a taller enclosure with branches, I can picture her using the space, along with maybe a "sky-hide" & a basket wired to branches for a platform, as I do for some other snakes I have.

You might also consider a nice American rat snake- such as an Everglades (beautiful orange-tend to be feisty, especially when young, but handles pretty well when raised from hatchling) or a Baird's rat snake (grey-silver with orange/yellow- generally very docile snakes- great for "public relations"). Either of these are likely to out-grow this 4 x 2 x 2 enclosure, but they'll take quite a while doing so. Just a thought- most rat snakes are very under-rated, IMO.

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Australian spotted pythons are nice. But, I think I've prefer a bit larger (though, not definitely). How big is yours, and how big you think the females get?

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Not an arboreal, but on your want list and quite handleable: Black Milksnake. I have a breeding pair, and they're quite enjoyable captives. I keep mine in 48 x 24 x 12" enclosures, but an extra foot or two of height would be well used.

Rainbow boas are another arboreal-ish possibility -- I keep mine in 48 x 24 x 18", but again more height would be used.

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Both nice snakes. I have a Mexican Black king ... similar in looks to the black milksnake ?except height). Though, I will admit I've been looking for a nice black milk, because I would love a thicker bodied all-blacl snake. And, Eastern indigos are not an easy choice, though would die to have one.

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Originally Posted by Charles8088

Australian spotted pythons are nice. But, I think I've prefer a bit larger (though, not definitely). How big is yours, and how big you think the females get?

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As I said, mine ("she") is about 4' long, maybe a little longer, as she's hard to measure (she's not inclined to straighten out).

The trouble with your "ask" is that most really arboreal snakes aren't known for their "social suitability", having both sizable dentition & the inclination to use it.

My adult Trans Pecos rat snakes are a little bigger (4.5 - 5' long) and they excel at handling (docile, not biters, like handling). And they do use their branches quite a bit & gracefully, but I wouldn't classify them as arboreal. The adults should have a wider home than just 2', even though they enjoy & use branches (& also baskets wired to them for platforms).

If you're actually interested in keeping a Trans Pecos rat snake, that size enclosure 'might' work fine for one- it's just that I've not tried that & hesitate to recommend it, but let me see what Dusty Rhoads has to say in his book, The Complete Suboc, & I'll get back to you, or you can dig up a copy in your local library (maybe?). They do get my highest rating for being docile, curious & easily-handled- & they fit your size request. Mine are never in homes shorter (lengthwise) than 3' though. They do enjoy the branches (etc.) that I install for them, & they aren't inclined to hide much unless in shed. You might be able to make that size home work?

The OP wants a snake with presence, some size, maybe even some girth..... for an arboreal snake that is. I don't think a Rat snake is going to scratch his itch. It wouldn't for me.

If it was me and since I can't afford my Amazon Basin I would be going for a that big Carpet. I never really wanted one but after lucking into the one I have he's certainly made me a fan.

My Carpet, ETB, and GTP are some of my best behaved snakes. The Carpet and ETB have never tagged me. Haven't even tried other than making launches at feeding time... But I don't take that personal. It's not me they want.

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Originally Posted by KMG

The OP wants a snake with presence, some size, maybe even some girth..... for an arboreal snake that is. I don't think a Rat snake is going to scratch his itch...

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Well, from reading the OP's posted "want list" I don't see how you concluded that, except that we all have our personal preferences. Anyway, I don't try to "read minds" & I don't care what he chooses- I just hope he's happy with it.

Because it's what he said. :cool:

We all have a wish list but right now he's looking for something different that may be a new desire. I've had those weird itches pop up that I wasn't really planning on but fell hard into.

I'm still looking for a Giant Madagascar Hoggy. The Blonde I stumbled across is cool and made that want even greater. Just haven't seen one. :tears:

My carpets are in 4 x 4 x 2 vivs and I have Carpondro’s in 3 x 4 x 2 vivs. My GTP is in a 2 x 2 x 2 cube. My GTP is only active at night but my Carpondro’s and carpets are pretty active in the day. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d9ac27ca1c.jpg
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...16cbcb6fb7.jpg
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An Arboreal species which can be kept in a 4' x 2' x2' cage. Well - what about a Children's Python or a Spotted Python - which stay between 3-5 feet as adults. Or maybe one of the dwarf localities of the Central American Boa (Boa imperator) like the Crawl Caye, Sonoran, or Tamaulipas Cloud Forest, which also stay fairly small 4-5 feet.

I agree with KMG. A big coastal or jungle carpet python would be an excellent choice.

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

I agree with KMG. A big coastal or jungle carpet python would be an excellent choice.

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Isn't that going to out-grow the enclosure size? (the OP specified 4'x2'x2')

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...COIiLSjpxAOw&sHow about a Beauty Rat snake? I’ve never kept one but know they are semi- arboreal. They look amazing as well.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...COIiLSjpxAOw&sHow about a Beauty Rat snake? I’ve never kept one but know they are semi- arboreal. They look amazing as well.

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Another great choice (I've kept them before) but they get very large & WILL out-grow the size enclosure being asked about. ;)

If you go with Bredli I highly recommend a male for this size enclosure. Females can get quite large, I house my females in 8'x2'x2'. Both my male and female are very docile and an absolute joy to work with :)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Isn't that going to out-grow the enclosure size? (the OP specified 4'x2'x2')

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You can always go bigger but I think a 4x2x2 is the perfect size for most carpets.

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

You can always go bigger but I think a 4x2x2 is the perfect size for most carpets.

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Okay, I was just asking- from the way you described carpets-:confusd: I have no experience with them but thought they might need more space, as adults anyway.

I feel KMG and Zig are spot on here.

The most handleable, larger sized animals that fit that cage size are carpets IMO. I'd also say any of the island boa constrictors will fit the bill. Probably a male, but you'll likely get more length with a carpet.

My locality Colombian boa is very arboreal and active, but I'd say he's a bit too large in some ways for the cage size you are looking at.

I had a male SD X Dwarf X mainland retic (not recommended) that was extremely arboreal however he was in a 6' X 2' X 30" cage and was pushing 9 feet. All around he was too ill tempered to manage here.

The most arboreal snake I have here is a male, Bredli python.

I have a female Brisbane coastal in the exact cage size the OP is looking at and she is very arboreal as well. Almost every carpet species is highly arboreal.


Bredli in the 4' X 2' X 2'

https://i.imgur.com/1evF3Jo.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ubTiCPA.jpg
He's moved into a 4' X 30" X 20". It has less height but it is deeper. I tend to rotate the adults in and out of the larger cages.


Currently the new Brisbane coastal is in the 4x2x2,

https://i.imgur.com/4nf2r4r.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ExAVYJH.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/eAP3Jxg.jpg


I'm not sure if I will run into any caging issues down the road. Both the Bredli and the Brissy have the potential to get larger. The Bredli is heavy and still growing. The Brissy is very young and may get very long.

My boa is 6+ feet and I don't see him ever going into the 4x2x2. He's too dense and is pretty hard on caging items.

The carpets are more graceful and even at a greater length they tend to be easier to keep in smaller cages. They could eventually weigh the same as the boa but I find it unlikely. My previous carpet that passed was in a 4x2x2 for years and she was over 8 feet. I think she actually preferred the 4x2x2 over the bigger cages.

You can't go wrong with a carpet. They typically handle and interact well, are quite hardy and display well.

Southern coastals and the Bredli are normally the largest species.

Jungles are great, northern coastals are usually smaller and there are many more choices.

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Originally Posted by tropiclikeitshot

If you go with Bredli I highly recommend a male for this size enclosure. Females can get quite large, I house my females in 8'x2'x2'. Both my male and female are very docile and an absolute joy to work with :)

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I agree with the possibility of a larger cage with Bredli carpets. In general they tend to be more dense than other carpets.

What many may not know, and I have had more than a few discussions with Nick Mutton on this subject, is that male Bredli and male coastal carpets can and do attain greater sizes than females in the wild.

The pre-mating, combat rituals influence this.

In captivity, you may or may not see sexual dimorphism. Males and females often attain the same size if both are kept as pets.

Nick explained that most breeders intentionally keep their males smaller as it doesn't pay off to have large males adding to the feeding bill. Breeding females in captivity tend to be fed more.

This is a somewhat off topic subject with a point. You can get either sex and wind up with a large or small specimen.

Have a look at the male Bredli here at the 12:14 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzOJZyhI6gE&t=859s

I'm probably going to need another cage if this happens with my fella, however I think this is an exception.

@ Gio- Your enclosures, and animals, are AMAZING brother!! I’m gonna have to fly you and JMCrook in to help decorate when I get my new cages in. :D

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

@ Gio- Your enclosures, and animals, are AMAZING brother!! I’m gonna have to fly you and JMCrook in to help decorate when I get my new cages in. :D

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I’m down with that sir!!
You have one beautiful collection yourself 👍😎

Oooo, did I miss something? Are you getting new cages Ziggy?

I largely agree with what the others have said so far. A 4'x2'x2' should be minimally sufficient for all but the larger Morelia (ie. the larger coastals, bredli, and diamonds). Something along the lines of a Papuan, inland, or male jungle, coastal, or Darwin would probably find a cage that size comfortable. A smaller female of the later three would be fine as well. It could potentially work for a male bredli as well if you watch how much you feed them, but there's still a good chance they'd outgrow it over the years. An island locality boa would also be an excellent choice if you'd like something a little different -- most of the island boas are more arboreal, so they'd probably appreciate any perching offered and make good display boas.

There's definitely nothing wrong with building bigger cages for the above snakes, either. My personal long term goal is to build 6' display cages for all of my snakes even though they don't strictly need cages that large. They've always used every extra inch of cage space I've given them, and it's nice seeing snakes stretched out, active, and comfortable. If you kit a big cage out properly, most snakes will greatly appreciate the extra space.

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Originally Posted by Gio

I agree with the possibility of a larger cage with Bredli carpets. In general they tend to be more dense than other carpets.

What many may not know, and I have had more than a few discussions with Nick Mutton on this subject, is that male Bredli and male coastal carpets can and do attain greater sizes than females in the wild.

The pre-mating, combat rituals influence this.

In captivity, you may or may not see sexual dimorphism. Males and females often attain the same size if both are kept as pets.

Nick explained that most breeders intentionally keep their males smaller as it doesn't pay off to have large males adding to the feeding bill. Breeding females in captivity tend to be fed more.

This is a somewhat off topic subject with a point. You can get either sex and wind up with a large or small specimen.

Have a look at the male Bredli here at the 12:14 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzOJZyhI6gE&t=859s

I'm probably going to need another cage if this happens with my fella, however I think this is an exception.

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Excellent point, both my male and female are the same length the difference between my pair is in the weight. Both are 8' but female is 16.6 lbs and male is just over 6lbs. I wouldn't be surprised if some males get much larger than this!

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Originally Posted by WrongPython

Oooo, did I miss something? Are you getting new cages Ziggy?

I largely agree with what the others have said so far. A 4'x2'x2' should be minimally sufficient for all but the larger Morelia (ie. the larger coastals, bredli, and diamonds). Something along the lines of a Papuan, inland, or male jungle, coastal, or Darwin would probably find a cage that size comfortable. A smaller female of the later three would be fine as well. It could potentially work for a male bredli as well if you watch how much you feed them, but there's still a good chance they'd outgrow it over the years. An island locality boa would also be an excellent choice if you'd like something a little different -- most of the island boas are more arboreal, so they'd probably appreciate any perching offered and make good display boas.

There's definitely nothing wrong with building bigger cages for the above snakes, either. My personal long term goal is to build 6' display cages for all of my snakes even though they don't strictly need cages that large. They've always used every extra inch of cage space I've given them, and it's nice seeing snakes stretched out, active, and comfortable. If you kit a big cage out properly, most snakes will greatly appreciate the extra space.

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It appears most of us are on the same page.

I would urge anybody who is going with a pure diamond python, to go with a larger cage.

Diamonds do need very different temperature zones in their cages.

If I kept the species I would want a 6 foot cage with 30-36" of depth prior to the animal's maturity and I would entertain an 8 footer. For most boas and carpets, cages 2 feet tall are my minimum.

After doing this for a while you figure things out. If I could do it all over, I'd have cages 3 feet tall and have every one of them, sans the royal's cage be a 6 footer with 30-36" of depth.


The OP should have some great ideas here for the right animal.

Island boas and carpets are easy to come by and fit into what is being asked for.

I will say I'm experiencing my first challenge with the new Brissy girl here.

My first coastal mix was such a sweet girl. The Brissy is a twitch box that will bite repeatedly. The Bredli had moments but he's a pretty good chap now.


Here are some pictures of the late Jewel. 8+ feet and she seemed most comfortable in her 4x2x2 cage.

If you want size, and something that handles well this fits the bill. She was probably 2 feet longer than my boa but weighed a bit less from what it felt like.

https://i.imgur.com/zxK5W1O.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wFUvNXd.jpg


I miss this girl.
https://i.imgur.com/ntwtp7N.jpg


This is my boa. He's quite arboreal and handles like a dream.
https://i.imgur.com/jw6DTJI.jpg

He's in a 6 foot cage now but he's perfectly happy in a 4' x 30" x (20" tall) cage.
I may move him back into that if either carpet grows excessively and it would have to be larger than the last coastal.

The boa just can't do the 4x2x2 as well as a carpet can.