Some people...

Really make me angry.

Check out this ad: Fauna Ad

What do you think?

omg thats messed up, "she's a little skinny because ive been out of rats for 2 months". errrrrrrrrrrrr:fight:

Unless I read that wrong he also says she was around 1400 grams when he "ran out" of rats two months back and she was bred last season. Well if she was only 1300 or 1400 grams this season BEFORE he didn't bother to feed her, she is underweight for this year and would have had to be VERY underweight to have been bred last season.

His tag is "nogoodteen".....very appropriate....

People like that make me sick.


~~Jo~~

ball pythons dont lose 3 or 4 hundred grams in 2 months. my male was on a fast and in two and a half months he only went from 1650 to 1505 grams. maybe she has parasites or something?

I would stay far away from this guy. That is an awful big weight loss for a couple months. He didnt say that he starved her for two months but even if he had it would still be tough for her to lose that much.

Go buy a rat expletive!!!!!!

Seriously. How much do rats cost? Maybe two bucks. He couldn't afford two bucks a week?

Many rodent breeders have shortages during different points of the year. My rat guy took a hit this fall ... happens all the time ... even rodent pro ran out of small rats a month or two ago.

Availability of rats can sometimes be a problem for some people ... if it hasn't happened to you (that is a general you, not directed at a specific person), you are lucky ... but without knowing the whole story, is it really fair to judge?

The snake didn't look unhealthy in the picture? And ball pythons don't need to eat every single week.

Looking at the add from a different angle, my impression was that the female was never larger than 1100 grams and he's just trying to get a couple hundred extra dollars by saying she used to be 1400 grams and a proven breeder.

-adam

I'd bet he didn't think he'd scare people from purchasing with his little fib.

Well my issue isn't with a snake not eating for 2 months, lots of ours on this forum go that long or longer as part of their winter fasting thing from what I can see. I still don't get the ran out of rats thing. I know RodentPro can go low on stock but consistently?...for months?

My problem is any idiot making it clear (or pretending to) that he bred a female well underweight and wants to sell her to have it done again. At less than 1400 grams she would not be up to size for this year correct let alone whatever she must have weighed a year back? If he's just trying to make her more "appealing" by lying about her being a proven female, then he's clueless as geesh I don't know from squat, but I do know that everything he posted made her less appealing as well as himself as a seller.

Sorry this sort of thing does tend to get my back up but I'll learn over time to let it slide more, one can't fix the world though I wish it were different.


~~Jo~~

1500 grams is a guideline, not a rule for breeding females.

They can be safely bred at less weight if their body weight is solid. I've bred girls that are less than 1500 grams with no ill effect.

If she's healthy, she could get her weight back and be bred again this year.

-adam

It gets my back up, too, Jo. I've always held that if you can't afford to feed the animal, you shouldn't have the animal... and if you can't find food for all your animals, you have too many. Sure these guys can go without food for months... but this one isn't going off feed because it's winter or unable to eat because it's in the wild and food is scarce.

The way I see it, these guys are our pets and we have a responsibility to take care of them, whether we have one or one-hundred. Just my opinion (and, yes, I'm well aware of what they say about those).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

It gets my back up, too, Jo. I've always held that if you can't afford to feed the animal, you shouldn't have the animal... and if you can't find food for all your animals, you have too many. Sure these guys can go without food for months... but this one isn't going off feed because it's winter or unable to eat because it's in the wild and food is scarce.

The way I see it, these guys are our pets and we have a responsibility to take care of them, whether we have one or one-hundred. Just my opinion (and, yes, I'm well aware of what they say about those).

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But you are aware that feeding them every single week is much much more food than they actually need right? Most captive boids are extremely over fed.

He said two months in the ad. That's 4 - 8 feedings. Some people even feed their animals every 3 weeks .... that would be 2 - 3 missed feedings. In the picture the snake looks healthy and definitely not suffering from any type of starvation.

-adam

Do you feed your animals every week?

And, yes, I'm aware that feeding them once a week is more than they would need to survive. In the wild. But ours aren't in the wild.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

Do you feed your animals every week?

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What I do does not matter. Everyone does things a little different and the reality is that there are lots and lots of ways to keep these amazing animals happy and healthy. No "one way" is ever the "right way". If the animal in that picture appeared to be even slightly suffering from malnutrition, I'd be right there with you ... but it did not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

And, yes, I'm aware that feeding them once a week is more than they would need to survive. In the wild. But ours aren't in the wild.

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You're right, they aren't in the wild ... In the wild they eat 10 - 20 times per year (instead of 52), have to work for their food, and have a much wider range of space to explore and object to climb, and obesity is never ever a problem for them like it is in captivity.

-adam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You're right, they aren't in the wild ... In the wild they eat 10 - 20 times per year (instead of 52), have to work for their food, and have a much wider range of space to explore and object to climb, and obesity is never ever a problem for them like it is in captivity.

-adam

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If Americans lived like that, we wouldn't be obese, either. But that really isn't the point. My point is this: if there's a shortage of rats from a supplier, fine. I, personally, would be running hell bent all over Columbus, looking for a way to feed my guys after a couple weeks. But that's me and my way of doing things. But if someone can't afford to feed their snakes---and, I'm sorry, but there are enough suppliers out there that you could find mice or rats way before two months expired---I don't think they should keep them. I mean, how is this guy going to afford a vet bill if something comes up? Or will he even take his animals to a vet?

It's our responsibility to care for these animals (including keeping them from becoming obese). They count on us for everything. And if you can't feed them, it's time to start cutting back---again, my opinion, of course.

It's not so much that the snake was starved, because in the picture she looks good, as much as the fact that she could've been if she stayed with her current owner. I mean I make minimum wage, but I still have enough for my snake's weekly mouse, he can't honestly say that he couldn't afford them, or his breeder was out, because there are plenty of places to get mice/rats. What I'm trying to say is that she probably wasn't bred last year, and was never 1300-1400 grams, and it was all a sham to make her sound like a better buy. Just my :twocents:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

If Americans lived like that, we wouldn't be obese, either. But that really isn't the point.

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I can't imagine how that statement is even remotely relevant to this dicsussion or what I posted? I was trying to explain that the physiology of p. regius allows them to eat a handful of times a year in the wild (far less than in most captive environments by an order of magnitude) and be far more active in the wild (also by an order of magnutide) and that based on that physiology missing 4 or 5 feedings over 2 months in a captive collection is not anything to be alarmed over. You see, cold blooded animals don't use their caloric intake to generate their own body heat like a cat or a dog or a person ... the notion of hunger for a snake and hunger for a mammal are two completely different things. I'm sorry if I confused anyone.

I just re-read the ad and don't see any mention of not being able to afford rats?? Where are you guys getting that from?

-adam

I agree and don't see where the guy said he starved the snake.

Just being stupid with the obesity comment... sad to say, accomplished my goal. :rolleyes:

So it's not anything to be worried about that they miss a few meals. But there's a difference between them choosing not to eat and us with-holding food from them. They have no way to hunt, we've taken that from them. The least we can do is give them a rat so they can make the choice. It's cruel to take an animal and place it in a cage---giving it no means to hunt---and then not feeding it.

---Tree-hugger :oops:

the photos are dated 2004... perhaps they aren't even current photos.

*runs from room*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

So it's not anything to be worried about that they miss a few meals. But there's a difference between them choosing not to eat and us with-holding food from them. They have no way to hunt, we've taken that from them. The least we can do is give them a rat so they can make the choice. It's cruel to take an animal and place it in a cage---giving it no means to hunt---and then not feeding it.

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But you're missing my point ... what makes you believe that a ball python "needs" to eat every single week? How do you know that they aren't just as content eating 6 times a year?

Which is the more responsible owner? Someone that knows their animals, understands their animals physiology, and feeds them as much (or as little) as necessary for them to thrive ... or .... someone that blindly throws a rodent into their snakes cage each and every single week because a pet store owner or a basic care book told them that is what they are supposed to do.

There is no instruction booklet that comes with a ball python and while care books, verbal advice, and posts on the internet are all certainly a starting point of good information to help people care for their snakes, it's each owners individual responsibility to learn what is best for their individual animal or animals and care for them accordingly.

Just as someone could turn their nose up and point fingers at a keeper that feeds their animal sparsely because that keeper feels that is what's best, someone else could turn their nose up at the keeper that stuffs their snake full of food 52 times a year when in actuality, the snake may need much less.

As long as both animals are healthy, neither way is right or wrong, just different.

-adam

I agree with that. Whole-heartedly.

I just feel that this person doesn't have the snake's best interests at heart. "He ran out of rats" and so hasn't been able to feed her "like he wants." Why not? Why couldn't he gets some, if he really wanted to?

Perhaps I'll email him and just ask.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

I just feel that this person doesn't have the snake's best interests at heart. "He ran out of rats" and so hasn't been able to feed her "like he wants." Why not? Why couldn't he gets some, if he really wanted to?

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I've been in that situation and I can assure you that I have all of my snakes best interest at heart. Life happens and many circumstances are out of peoples control. You're very fortunate to have never been in that same spot.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think the guy is a little shady on the whole "proven breeder" thing and maybe the "ran out of rats" line is just a lie to lend credibility to his story. That said, I am not a big fan of judging others and I think that there was not enough information in that thread to judge how this guy did or did not care for his animals.

-adam

I was quick to jump on him, I concede to that, and apologize.

I get worked up about stuff like this... my guy, Diablo, was starved because his keepers simply didn't want to pay to feed him. I don't understand it.

Sorry for being overly emotional. Something about the ad didn't sit right with me and I went off---but I do sincerely believe everything I wrote.

couldn't it be that the snake is fasting and he doesnt want the possible buyers to know?

*runs from room with recycling goddess* *wait up! wait up!*

Lol, why you running?

I think we've already laid to rest the fact that anything's possible :)