Can ball pythons safely climb branches thinner then them?

I have a cool branch I would like to use for the background of my future viv, but it's thinner then my snake will most likely be when he's growing up (he's male).
At 200 grams now I am not worried, but when he grows bigger I was thinking what if he could fall of the branches when he's too big.
Weight isn't a big concern since I secure everything to the walls.
He's an enthusiastic climber so I am sure he'll take the oppurtunity.

Here's a pic of it with my arm as reference.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXdyVfpM...dium=copy_link

Branches are difficult to keep clean and how would you secure it? Also not sure how to answer your question based on a picture and the fact your BP is 200G now. You could always secure it not too far off the ground and he falls a few inches would likely not get hurt. Keep in mind BP's will climb but they are ground snakes and not super adept at it.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?269674-Tank-decor-for-a-snake-who-likes-to-climb&highlight=branches

The above thread is recent discussion that should give you some ideas.

I use PVC for my Carpet Python.

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Originally Posted by dakski

Branches are difficult to keep clean and how would you secure it? Also not sure how to answer your question based on a picture and the fact your BP is 200G now. You could always secure it not too far off the ground and he falls a few inches would likely not get hurt. Keep in mind BP's will climb but they are ground snakes and not super adept at it.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?269674-Tank-decor-for-a-snake-who-likes-to-climb&highlight=branches

The above thread is recent discussion that should give you some ideas.

I use PVC for my Carpet Python.

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I mean people use branches all the time. Especially with naturalistic and bioactive enclosures and they don't really clean them.
And securing it by bolting it down.
I am not so worried he'd hurt himself by falling down, there will be plenty of bedding and I don't put it high up.
I just wanted to know if he can fit on the branch comfortably when he's older.
And I feel like providing climbing branches is a better solution for him than not, since he will climb anyway and I guess it's better than climbing the walls were he regularly looses his grip.

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Originally Posted by CakeLike

I mean people use branches all the time. Especially with naturalistic and bioactive enclosures and they don't really clean them.
And securing it by bolting it down.
I am not so worried he'd hurt himself by falling down, there will be plenty of bedding and I don't put it high up.
I just wanted to know if he can fit on the branch comfortably when he's older.
And I feel like providing climbing branches is a better solution for him than not, since he will climb anyway and I guess it's better than climbing the walls were he regularly looses his grip.

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Not sure where you're getting that people don't clean wood in their enclosures but I'm going to have to disagree with you. I think to Dakski's point, using something like PVC is easier to clean therefore easier to use. He's not saying people don't use them, I have branches in my BP enclosure, but they are incredibly time consuming to clean and because wood is porous you have to be very careful about what products you use on them. Like Dakski said, BPs will climb but they're not super adept at it, so I wouldn't put anything that takes them more than a few inches off the ground. My male has plenty of "climbing" opportunity in his enclosure, but nothing that's going to put him up high enough to hurt himself, and nothing that needs to be bolted down.

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Originally Posted by CakeLike

I mean people use branches all the time. Especially with naturalistic and bioactive enclosures and they don't really clean them.
And securing it by bolting it down.
I am not so worried he'd hurt himself by falling down, there will be plenty of bedding and I don't put it high up.
I just wanted to know if he can fit on the branch comfortably when he's older.
And I feel like providing climbing branches is a better solution for him than not, since he will climb anyway and I guess it's better than climbing the walls were he regularly looses his grip.

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BPs are not "designed" for being good climbers. That doesn't mean they don't try anyway- some do, & some are better than others. Some opportunity to climb on things offers exercise & "enrichment", but for a BP, I wouldn't situate branches so your BP gets very high up, as repeated falls can potentially do some injury, sooner or later. I have an older rosy boa that climbs a little too- so she has a couple branches. Their bodies are round, so they're not great climbers either, lol, but she manages, & better than expected.

Also, when any snake is repeatedly trying to climb out of their secure enclosure (& it's not about breeding a nearby mate) I'd be asking myself why? It may mean that the husbandry is off (temperatures or hides aren't suitable?) so time to double check before you encourage them.

Back to branches- a wide-bodied BP cannot hang on well to a single branch the way a rat snake can- but 2 or 3 branches grouped would work much better for stability & fewer falls.

My snakes (RAT snakes) live in glass tanks, so there is no "bolting branches to the walls". What I do instead is trim branches to lengths that fit exactly at an angle (from one bottom corner, diagonally to an upper corner on the opposite side) & they cross over each other in the middle somewhere. Sometimes they lock firmly together (it's like a puzzle...:D) but often I use one or 2 pieces of coated wire* to quickly stabilize their position (wrap where they cross each other) so my snakes can climb & the branches stay in place, securely. (*hint: you could also use zip-ties)

Yes, we DO really clean branches. And at some point, if contaminated, we throw them away & replace them. ;) As already noted, wood is porous- they can soak up & retain nasty germs. There is a limit to what you can wash off & sanitize like the rest of the enclosure. But natural branches offer way more traction for snakes than most other options- everything has "pros" & "cons".

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Originally Posted by CakeLike

it's thinner then my snake will most likely be when he's growing up (he's male).
At 200 grams now I am not worried, but when he grows bigger I was thinking what if he could fall of the branches when he's too big.

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Be careful what you say now....because this is my largest ball python, weighing in at almost 6 pounds. :rofl:
My male BP, who has been this large since he was around 4 or 5 years old I honestly can't remember. He's always been big.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/MwvSby9.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ur.com/MwvSby9

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

Be careful what you say now....because this is my largest ball python, weighing in at almost 6 pounds. :rofl:
My male BP, who has been this large since he was around 4 or 5 years old I honestly can't remember. He's always been big.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/MwvSby9.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ur.com/MwvSby9

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You sure it's a male at 6 pounds?! :O

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

BPs are not "designed" for being good climbers. That doesn't mean they don't try anyway- some do, & some are better than others. Some opportunity to climb on things offers exercise & "enrichment", but for a BP, I wouldn't situate branches so your BP gets very high up, as repeated falls can potentially do some injury, sooner or later. I have an older rosy boa that climbs a little too- so she has a couple branches. Their bodies are round, so they're not great climbers either, lol, but she manages, & better than expected.

Also, when any snake is repeatedly trying to climb out of their secure enclosure (& it's not about breeding a nearby mate) I'd be asking myself why? It may mean that the husbandry is off (temperatures or hides aren't suitable?) so time to double check before you encourage them.

Back to branches- a wide-bodied BP cannot hang on well to a single branch the way a rat snake can- but 2 or 3 branches grouped would work much better for stability & fewer falls.

My snakes (RAT snakes) live in glass tanks, so there is no "bolting branches to the walls". What I do instead is trim branches to lengths that fit exactly at an angle (from one bottom corner, diagonally to an upper corner on the opposite side) & they cross over each other in the middle somewhere. Sometimes they lock firmly together (it's like a puzzle...:D) but often I use one or 2 pieces of coated wire* to quickly stabilize their position (wrap where they cross each other) so my snakes can climb & the branches stay in place, securely. (*hint: you could also use zip-ties)

Yes, we DO really clean branches. And at some point, if contaminated, we throw them away & replace them. ;) As already noted, wood is porous- they can soak up & retain nasty germs. There is a limit to what you can wash off & sanitize like the rest of the enclosure. But natural branches offer way more traction for snakes than most other options- everything has "pros" & "cons".

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Do you have bioactive enclosures?
When I go on youtube and search for bioactive set ups and someone asks how do you clean the tank, they always say you don't clean it when it's bioactive since the isopods are there.
And I have seen many keepers with bioactive ball python enclosures which also have wood in there setups.

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Originally Posted by CakeLike

Do you have bioactive enclosures?
When I go on youtube and search for bioactive set ups and someone asks how do you clean the tank, they always say you don't clean it when it's bioactive since the isopods are there.
And I have seen many keepers with bioactive ball python enclosures which also have wood in there setups.

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No, & honestly, I have zero interest in doing bioactive enclosures. Seems like an awful big hassle, & there's only so much the "little critters" can dispose of- you still need to pick some up. I've also heard of people having trouble keeping their plants alive. Personally, I love growing plants & insects...in my YARD! :D I strongly suspect that your impression that bioactive set-ups are somehow "easier" are very misleading at best. ;) I've been keeping many snakes for a very long time- & what I do works well for me. If it "ain't broke, I don't fix it". :snake:

Keep the branch on its side just like in picture you took of it

Absolutely. Hahahah.
He's been probed and has bred. He's surprised a few people though with his size and age. He was originally sold to me as a female in the summer of 2000. Lol

Chris Hardwick also has a male about this size that he films a lot of his videos with iirc. The bamboo he usually features.

I don't personally have any experience with bioactive enclosures but I've been here long enough to seen many threads about it. It always seemed that BPs may not be the best reptiles for a bioactive enclosure. As adults, they produce a lot of waste. I'm sure that the user with the large BP can tell you that it poops like a bear. Even my 1300 something gram males will poop like small dog. Also, the weight of the BPs will destroy any live plants.

I think it's pretty cool that you're trying to do one and I think you should search the archive threads to see what has worked for others. With that being said, you may try one with a smaller snake like a corn or perhaps something smaller and more active?

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I haven't heard of any successful bioactive tanks for BPs. Most people say that the snake destroyed all of the plants. Anyways, they poop so much that you'd need a huge isopod/springtail population to clean it all, most of them still need cleaned.

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Originally Posted by CakeLike

Do you have bioactive enclosures?
When I go on youtube and search for bioactive set ups and someone asks how do you clean the tank, they always say you don't clean it when it's bioactive since the isopods are there.
And I have seen many keepers with bioactive ball python enclosures which also have wood in there setups.

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What they don't say on those Youtube videos is that 6 months later they had to start over again from scratch because their plants and fauna cultures died. Youtubers don't like to admit failure. I suggest you search for "bioactive" threads on this site. You'll see many different ways of going about it. You will also see stories of keepers who had to try over and over again before they came up with a set up that worked for them. I emphasize "for them" because the set up that worked for those keepers may not work for you. My point is that setting up a bioactive isn't as easy as they make it look on Youtube. You will probably have to try over and over for months before you get it right.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

I don't personally have any experience with bioactive enclosures but I've been here long enough to seen many threads about it. It always seemed that BPs may not be the best reptiles for a bioactive enclosure. As adults, they produce a lot of waste. I'm sure that the user with the large BP can tell you that it poops like a bear. Even my 1300 something gram males will poop like small dog. Also, the weight of the BPs will destroy any live plants.

I think it's pretty cool that you're trying to do one and I think you should search the archive threads to see what has worked for others. With that being said, you may try one with a smaller snake like a corn or perhaps something smaller and more active?

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Well I only have the one snake and don't really plan on getting more.

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Originally Posted by CakeLike

Well I only have the one snake and don't really plan on getting more.

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That's fair.

Have you ever thought of just doing a bioactive enclosure without animals or maybe some frogs? That could be a very beautiful setup.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

What they don't say on those Youtube videos is that 6 months later they had to start over again from scratch because their plants and fauna cultures died. Youtubers don't like to admit failure. I suggest you search for "bioactive" threads on this site. You'll see many different ways of going about it. You will also see stories of keepers who had to try over and over again before they came up with a set up that worked for them. I emphasize "for them" because the set up that worked for those keepers may not work for you. My point is that setting up a bioactive isn't as easy as they make it look on Youtube. You will probably have to try over and over for months before you get it right.

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Yeah I know it's not easy and significantly harder for big snakes. But I lnow the problems that come with that and I accept the fact that plants have to be removed and changed and that I have to still clean poop out. I am not doing it for easier cleaning but because it looks much better than a boring sterile tank. And If I have my snake for 20 plus years I think it's easier to have to put a bit of work into it at thw beginning and then have it run smootly than clean out the cage fully once a month for 20 years to come to be honest.
Bob from the channel green room pythons has a video talking about bioactive for ball pythons and what works and what doesn't.
So as long as the snakes healthy in the setup I don't really care if I have to still do maintance with it.

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Originally Posted by CakeLike

Yeah I know it's not easy and significantly harder for big snakes. But I lnow the problems that come with that...

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Great! As long as you know what you're getting yourself into, I'm rooting for you. Also, you should consider proceeding slowly. Most of the bioactive set up videos I've seen try to create a whole ecosystem in one shot and that's a tough thing to get right. Proceed incrementally and it will be easier to see what's working and what isn't. Add UV lights and some potted plants. If you can keep the plants alive in pots, proceed to plant them into your substrate. If the plants root and grow, then add your isopods and springtails. Once your isopod and springtail cultures are reproducing, then add your snake. Just a thought. However you do it share with us your progress. Watching your trials and travails will be educational for us all.

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Originally Posted by CakeLike

I am not doing it for easier cleaning but because it looks much better than a boring sterile tank.

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I would call the methodology you're looking for "naturalistic" -- wood rather than plastic, substrate rather than carpet, and so on. There are good reasons to aim for a naturalistic enclosure (or naturalistic elements): they look "better" to us, but much more importantly many animals seem to prefer natural materials over plastic. I give all my snakes both a plastic hide and a cork hide, and across taxa they consistently prefer to be both under and on top of the cork even when the positions of the two are switched in the enclosure.

There's also a case to be made for the "sustainability" of natural products over plastic, though not a case that can outweigh husbandry considerations. If plastic is better for the animal, then plastic is the way to go, full stop.

"Bioactive" is useful for (and was originally developed for) those animals that simply won't tolerate an enclosure cleaning, and that make waste products that are actually sort of amenable to processing by microfauna -- dart frogs and micro geckos, and that's about it. For virtually all other species, "bioactive" enclosures not only don't function as designed, but also involve expenditures of time and money that are better spent on aspects of animal care that actually benefit the animal in specifiable ways.

Springtails and most isopod species will not clean elevated wood branches unless the enclosure is at nearly 100% humidity, and even then not so much. Even in dart frog vivaria, the amount of spraying/scrubbing off of plant leaves to remove poop and algae is considerable.

Soooooo

All my Royals/ Balls have branches in their vivs and they climb most evenings when they’re not in shed mode .

Hell I even have one Albino youngster who will only strike feed a warm mouse whilst he’s up in his branches - shows no interest if he’s under a hide unlike every other Royals I have !!


I’d say I hear a ‘bump’ ( a fall) about once every three months . The branches are jammed in and kinda crisscross each other going up about 10” off the ground .

If they get ‘mucky’ they just get removed and washed or simply replaced


I am also aware of a study on wild caught Royal pythons which showed that a good % of them were found in trees and bushes , many in very high branches as well . They were themselves surprised at their findings


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