How do I heat a wooden enclosure?
I have to move my little guy in his big enclosure sometime next year.
But it's wooden and I have a hard time thinking about how to heat it safely.
Currently I am using a small PVC cage and the temps are perfect in there but it took me literally months of experimentation to get it right.
I heat the PVC with a RHP for ambient temps and a heatmat underneath the enclosure for contact heat. It works really well this way. The pvc lets the heat from the mat get though very well.
But in my wooden cage I want to make it bioactive and there is no way a heat mat will do anything through wood and substrate.
I am honestly dreading the move because I have no idea how to get this to work. The RHP alone is not able to heat the snake all the way at the bottom through the hide.
And I can't buy a new PVC cage anytime soon because it's too expensive in the proper size now (I am going to move myself soon). And I still have the wooden cage I bought when I didn't know better.
Re: How do I heat a wooden enclosure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Misha
I don't see a reason why you can't utilize only the RHP. The VE 80 watt radiant panel should be more than plenty to heat the enclosure and provide the necessary ambient temps. Or you can utilize two 40 watt RHPs and keep them at different temps if you're trying to do a gradient (which is not really needed tbh).
Because I provide my snake with a hot spot of 90 degrees and I find that to be too hot for ambient temperature.
And I order to get the spot under his hide on the substrate to this temperetaure I need to bump up the heat from the RHP to a much higher temperature so that the heat reaches to the bottom of tge cage and through the hide.
And if the heat panel gets too hot my BP will burn itself because he climbes to the top easily and he does it constantly. That's my problem.
I don't wanna cook my snake or burn him or let him freeze.
That's why I said it takes me ages to figure the parameters out.
Re: How do I heat a wooden enclosure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CakeLike
Because I provide my snake with a hot spot of 90 degrees and I find that to be too hot for ambient temperature.
So that's kinda the question, why focus on doing the 90 degree hot spot if you can instead focus on providing a constant ambient temp? I think the hot spot is really towards more fish tank enclosures since glass tends to cool much faster. I've been running RHP only (with no hot spot) for the last seven years and haven't seen any negative effects at all. If anything, the BPs tend to be happy with the constant ambient temp. Regardless, to each their own but I do think that there's a much easier solution.
Re: How do I heat a wooden enclosure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Misha
So that's kinda the question, why focus on doing the 90 degree hot spot if you can instead focus on providing a constant ambient temp? I think the hot spot is really towards more fish tank enclosures since glass tends to cool much faster. I've been running RHP only (with no hot spot) for the last seven years and haven't seen any negative effects at all. If anything, the BPs tend to be happy with the constant ambient temp. Regardless, to each their own but I do think that there's a much easier solution.
Because that's what every BP guide on the internet says basically. Warm side, cool side, hot spot. That's what you read everywhere. It's basically the gospel of BP keeping. According to these guides.
And I just adopted it and got used to it.
Re: How do I heat a wooden enclosure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CakeLike
It's basically the gospel of BP keeping. And I just adopted it and got used to it.
It makes sense, but I'm going to disagree with it because those suggestions are geared towards newer owners. Realistically, none of the large keepers or serious breeders actually abide by it, even on this forum because it would be impossible to do so. In practice, the gradient system hasn't produced better results than the constant ambient temp.
I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other but I do want to introduce the notion that there's much more proven ways of doing things that may not be discussed on the internet at length because spaces like this forum/website is geared towards newer owners.
Here check out this thesis paper whenever you have a chance. It isn't a prove all, but it's an interesting read and might give you another opinion:
https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/v...=envstudtheses
Re: How do I heat a wooden enclosure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CakeLike
Because that's what every BP guide on the internet says basically. Warm side, cool side, hot spot. That's what you read everywhere. It's basically the gospel of BP keeping. According to these guides.
And I just adopted it and got used to it.
If you go back into older threads, I think you'll find that our own very successful BP-breeder (Deborah Stewart, of Stewart Reptiles) just heats the snake room. ;) She's still around & also selling on Morph Market.
Though personally, I agree with providing temperature options, Mr. Misha is quite correct that not everyone does it that way.
Re: How do I heat a wooden enclosure?
Yes I know many breeders keep their temperatures even but I thought that giving the snake a choice would be more comfortable for the snake. Since it can't tell me if it's too warm.
I thought about putting the heat mat inside the emclosure with a second bottom.
The bottom of my wooden viv is sealed with epoxy resin btw.
Here's the idea. I could use a pvc board as a second bottom, put the heat mat on the pvc (like in my other cage), put spacers on the undersite of the board so that there is air flow where the heat mat is. Then put the second bottom in the wooden viv.
Since I want to make it bioactive I'd have to use a drainage layer and substrate. So I'd have to find a way to seal the edges of the pvc board so that no water can get to the mat.
Furthermore I'd have to make a kind of hole in the substrate so that my snake can get to the heat from the mat. So more of a in the ground hide.
Do you get what I mean? Think it could work?
Re: How do I heat a wooden enclosure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CakeLike
Yes I know many breeders keep their temperatures even but I thought that giving the snake a choice would be more comfortable for the snake. Since it can't tell me if it's too warm.
I thought about putting the heat mat inside the emclosure with a second bottom.
The bottom of my wooden viv is sealed with epoxy resin btw.
Here's the idea. I could use a pvc board as a second bottom, put the heat mat on the pvc (like in my other cage), put spacers on the undersite of the board so that there is air flow where the heat mat is. Then put the second bottom in the wooden viv.
Since I want to make it bioactive I'd have to use a drainage layer and substrate. So I'd have to find a way to seal the edges of the pvc board so that no water can get to the mat.
Furthermore I'd have to make a kind of hole in the substrate so that my snake can get to the heat from the mat. So more of a in the ground hide.
Do you get what I mean? Think it could work?
I'd suggest checking out the biodude and his bioactive mix. With that mix you don't need a drainage layer so if you're going with a heat mat that may be better. Although I'm not sure about your idea of a false bottom. If there's small cracks then your heating is done and if you have a false bottom then you can't access it for maintenance or if it breaks slightly it's harder to know. You might have thought of ways around this but I'm not sure with the info you said.
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Re: How do I heat a wooden enclosure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Neko_snake
I'd suggest checking out the biodude and his bioactive mix. With that mix you don't need a drainage layer so if you're going with a heat mat that may be better. Although I'm not sure about your idea of a false bottom. If there's small cracks then your heating is done and if you have a false bottom then you can't access it for maintenance or if it breaks slightly it's harder to know. You might have thought of ways around this but I'm not sure with the info you said.
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Yes the accesability would be a problem to get around somehow. But I don't really want to put the heatmat in the cage without something to seperate it from the snake, since everyones pointing out everywhere how dangerous a heatmat can be when the snake has access to it.
Unfortunately I can't use the Bio Dudes Mix since I am not from the US. A selfmade mix would be possible but I have not yet found a good recipe for a substrate to use without a drainage layer.
Re: How do I heat a wooden enclosure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CakeLike
Yes the accesability would be a problem to get around somehow. But I don't really want to put the heatmat in the cage without something to seperate it from the snake, since everyones pointing out everywhere how dangerous a heatmat can be when the snake has access to it.
Unfortunately I can't use the Bio Dudes Mix since I am not from the US. A selfmade mix would be possible but I have not yet found a good recipe for a substrate to use without a drainage layer.
Yeah you definitely need some between your snake and a heat mat.
Makes sense to why you need a drainage layer then.
Is this enclosure just a wooden box? I know someone people who will seal the wood so it's not as flammable and does better with the constant humidity. If the wood is sealed I wonder if you can just continue to use your RHP even make a PVC top if you're concerned about screwing it into wood or PVC bottom if the bottom is a concern endurance wise.
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Re: How do I heat a wooden enclosure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Neko_snake
Yeah you definitely need some between your snake and a heat mat.
Makes sense to why you need a drainage layer then.
Is this enclosure just a wooden box? I know someone people who will seal the wood so it's not as flammable and does better with the constant humidity. If the wood is sealed I wonder if you can just continue to use your RHP even make a PVC top if you're concerned about screwing it into wood or PVC bottom if the bottom is a concern endurance wise.
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It's a kind of of plywood enclosure with a glass front.
I would have also thought about taking of the wood bottom and replacing it with a pvc one. But I already sealed the whole viv with epoxy, so I don't think I can get the bottom off again.
Re: How do I heat a wooden enclosure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CakeLike
It's a kind of of plywood enclosure with a glass front.
I would have also thought about taking of the wood bottom and replacing it with a pvc one. But I already sealed the whole viv with epoxy, so I don't think I can get the bottom off again.
Makes sense. I'm not sure how you can do it other than seal up that wood really good with epoxy like you did. I still believe you could use your RHP in it but you still have to figure out some solution since how you have it step up in the other tank is giving you problems. Is there a way you could maybe cut the top so that you could put the RHP on top of the enclosure and not in it? Just have a single metal screen so he can't hurt himself like he keeps trying to do in the other enclosure? This is just an idea and if others who have more experience with the diy stuff should definitely chime in lol. Check out all the reptile YouTube channels that diy stuff and maybe you'll get inspiration there.
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Re: How do I heat a wooden enclosure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CakeLike
Since I want to make it bioactive I'd have to use a drainage layer and substrate. So I'd have to find a way to seal the edges of the pvc board so that no water can get to the mat.
Furthermore I'd have to make a kind of hole in the substrate so that my snake can get to the heat from the mat. So more of a in the ground hide.
Do you get what I mean? Think it could work?
All due respect, this is a terrible idea. You're talking about putting a heat mat inside the enclosure in something that you're going to have to constantly add water to. Regardless of how well you think you seal it, the risk of having something electrical with water sitting on top of it is pretty obvious. A RHP is plenty IMO in an enclosure that holds heat well. Take the big PVC enclosures like a T10. All I have in there is a ProProducts RHP and it does exactly what I need it to do without having any other heat source. It creates a nice warm hide and a nice temperature gradient moving down towards the cool side.
