Help! Mystery eggs ID and general advice?

Hello.

In August we bought an 5 year old genetic stripe (what we thought was a) male. He was very lethargic when we got him and refused every meal. He was ridiculously passive and never seemed to move, as well as being obese. Our concern got to the point that we considered taking him to the vet...

About a month after we purchased "him", in early/mid sept SHE laid a clutch of six eggs. We were SO surprised. I phoned the person I bought the snake from and they just belittled me and told me that they must be infertile because it's a boy and if it was a girl, it can't have bred within the last year since that's when he obtained it. He was also quite sexist to me and laughed at me so I just hung up.

We (me and my partner) candled the eggs to find five beautiful fertile eggs with one slug. The five fertile eggs were placed in the incubator as soon as we could get it, 4 days after lay.

Flash forward to now, we are at day 55 and decided to cut the eggs. As first time breeders we were very worried that these eggs would need extra help because we didn't know their mom was pregnant so we even handled her at the extreme late stages of ovulation up to 3 days before lay. We feel TERRIBLE about this, but we were novices. This snake was our 2nd ever snake.

So today, we set up a little station, disinfected everything and cut each egg. We are extremely worried because they seem so small. Also, unexpectedly, all of them appear to be a variety of spider; which variety we are not certain. Attached are some pictures of the cut eggs. All of which responded except the fetus pictured in the last egg photo; this one had cloudy fluid and didn't seem to respond.

We have put them back in the incubator now but we are SO worried. They seem so small for 55 days but we were so concerned by the fact we had handled mom so late term and that we didn't get them in the incubator until day 4 after laying, and this is why we felt pressured to cut. Right now, we feel horrible.

I know these pictures are terrible and the situation is also terrible but we would appreciate some insight on the morphs of these babies. Also some advice on spider care from experience as we are quite concerned about the effect of spider 'wobble' on their wellbeing. Also pictured is their mom, Hendrix, who is (as far as we know) just a G Stripe. Also a pic with her and her eggs.

Also; are our babies just too small? Did we cut too early? How can we make sure they're healthy?

We love them so much. When we asked on reddit we were told to put them in the freezer. Please help us. Thank you in advance.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fab09886ad.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5fc2344212.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...59089f34b9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4fcd748d40.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1aceb5dd22.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c0e1043304.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6c83d93b34.jpg

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Until they actually come out of the egg and shed it’ll be hard to ID them. Based on the pics it looks like most have absorbed their yolk. They don’t seem to small to me but through pictures it’s hard to gauge. Cutting them at day 55 after being with mom for a few days shouldn’t be an issue. I’d give them a few more days and they should crawl out of the eggs, I wouldn’t be to concerned about the last one not being responsive. I had a few this year that I also thought died in the egg but crawled out a few days later. You should be seeing their little heads pop out in a day or 2 just give them some time


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And adding to what I just posted, don’t be concerned about their spider wobble. Most spiders will live happy healthy lives, with proper care and minimal stress some of their wobbles are hardly noticeable. Spiders get a bad rep in this industry and don’t need any specific care compared to any other ball pythons. What temp did you incubate at?


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Originally Posted by Snow Balls

Until they actually come out of the egg and shed it’ll be hard to ID them. Based on the pics it looks like most have absorbed their yolk. They don’t seem to small to me but through pictures it’s hard to gauge. Cutting them at day 55 after being with mom for a few days shouldn’t be an issue. I’d give them a few more days and they should crawl out of the eggs, I wouldn’t be to concerned about the last one not being responsive. I had a few this year that I also thought died in the egg but crawled out a few days later. You should be seeing their little heads pop out in a day or 2 just give them some time


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THANK YOU! This has calmed us so much. We will definitely update this thread upon hatch.

While you say it's hard to ID in the egg, do you think they resemble a spider morph? We are just concerned about the 'wobble'.

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Originally Posted by Snow Balls

And adding to what I just posted, don’t be concerned about their spider wobble. Most spiders will live happy healthy lives, with proper care and minimal stress some of their wobbles are hardly noticeable. Spiders get a bad rep in this industry and don’t need any specific care compared to any other ball pythons. What temp did you incubate at?


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SORRY replied before saw this. Incubated at 86-87, turned up to 88-89 in the last two weeks.

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Originally Posted by marigoldmenagerie

THANK YOU! This has calmed us so much. We will definitely update this thread upon hatch.

While you say it's hard to ID in the egg, do you think they resemble a spider morph? We are just concerned about the 'wobble'.

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Some look spider to me but like I said it’s hard to ID when they’re still in the egg


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Originally Posted by marigoldmenagerie

SORRY replied before saw this. Incubated at 86-87, turned up to 88-89 in the last two weeks.

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You should be seeing their heads popping out about day 58-60. Like I said just leave them be, just check on them about once per day (I know it’s very exciting) just give them their alone time and they should be fine


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Originally Posted by Snow Balls

You should be seeing their heads popping out about day 58-60. Like I said just leave them be, just check on them about once per day (I know it’s very exciting) just give them their alone time and they should be fine


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Thank you so much. You have no idea how grateful we are. We posted on reddit but immediately deleted because we thought we would be told that the babies would be sick and ill since they're spiders. We were so worried.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snow Balls

Until they actually come out of the egg and shed it’ll be hard to ID them. Based on the pics it looks like most have absorbed their yolk. They don’t seem to small to me but through pictures it’s hard to gauge. Cutting them at day 55 after being with mom for a few days shouldn’t be an issue. I’d give them a few more days and they should crawl out of the eggs, I wouldn’t be to concerned about the last one not being responsive. I had a few this year that I also thought died in the egg but crawled out a few days later. You should be seeing their little heads pop out in a day or 2 just give them some time


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Also how can you tell most have absorbed their yolk?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by marigoldmenagerie

Also how can you tell most have absorbed their yolk?

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If you look at pics 2 and 4 you can see that faint yellow sack that’s connected to them. That’s their yolk sack, you can also see it just barely in pic 1. Once they’re done absorbing them they will come out of their eggs


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snow Balls

If you look at pics 2 and 4 you can see that faint yellow sack that’s connected to them. That’s their yolk sack, you can also see it just barely in pic 1. Once they’re done absorbing them they will come out of their eggs


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Do they ever hatch before they absorb their yolk sack? How soon to natural hatching do they absorb their yolk?

So sorry for all the questions. I'm fascinated.

And thank you again!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by marigoldmenagerie

Do they ever hatch before they absorb their yolk sack? How soon to natural hatching do they absorb their yolk?

So sorry for all the questions. I'm fascinated.

And thank you again!!!!!!

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In some unfortunate events they will come out of their egg with the yolk sack still connected but I don’t have much experience with that and wouldn’t be able to give much advice there. But there’s plenty of info on here about it. They’ll normally stay in until it’s all absorbed then you’ll see heads popping out and a few days later they will get the courage to come out of their eggs. Ask as many questions as you’d like, I have no problems answering any


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snow Balls

In some unfortunate events they will come out of their egg with the yolk sack still connected but I don’t have much experience with that and wouldn’t be able to give much advice there. But there’s plenty of info on here about it. They’ll normally stay in until it’s all absorbed then you’ll see heads popping out and a few days later they will get the courage to come out of their eggs. Ask as many questions as you’d like, I have no problems answering any


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Thank you for this. I will reply back to this thread once they poke their sweet lil heads out!!!!

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I look forward to the updates lol


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If they come out with yolk sac it's best to isolate them in a small, very sterile container with very high humidity until they finish up. Shouldn't take more than a couple extra days. I don't have it happen often with BPs so it's unlikely you will have to deal with it.

Looks like Snow Balls has done a great job covering your questions so far, and I agree with everything said.

Genetics wise, who knows what the father is. She looks like she has more than just G-stripe. It's hard to say being a morph I have never worked with, but seems like there is more to it. Could be a very low-white Spider perhaps in the mix. Do her eyes look green to you? She probably retained sperm from prior to the person your got her from owning her. Sorry they were such a jerk to you :(

I'll do my best to help ID hatchlings when they have had their first shed. Glad you have gotten this far considering you were absolutely not expecting eggs!

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

Genetics wise, who knows what the father is. She looks like she has more than just G-stripe. It's hard to say being a morph I have never worked with, but seems like there is more to it. Could be a very low-white Spider perhaps in the mix. Do her eyes look green to you? She probably retained sperm from prior to the person your got her from owning her. Sorry they were such a jerk to you :(

I'll do my best to help ID hatchlings when they have had their first shed. Glad you have gotten this far considering you were absolutely not expecting eggs!

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I was going to add, I would not under any circumstances do business with whoever sold you again. That person sounded like he didn’t know what he was doing to begin with. I’m also very impressed with you being able to come up with an incubator and incubating these eggs successfully full term. Like Nikkubus said I will also do my very best to help ID these snakes once they shed


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

If they come out with yolk sac it's best to isolate them in a small, very sterile container with very high humidity until they finish up. Shouldn't take more than a couple extra days. I don't have it happen often with BPs so it's unlikely you will have to deal with it.

Looks like Snow Balls has done a great job covering your questions so far, and I agree with everything said.

Genetics wise, who knows what the father is. She looks like she has more than just G-stripe. It's hard to say being a morph I have never worked with, but seems like there is more to it. Could be a very low-white Spider perhaps in the mix. Do her eyes look green to you? She probably retained sperm from prior to the person your got her from owning her. Sorry they were such a jerk to you :(

I'll do my best to help ID hatchlings when they have had their first shed. Glad you have gotten this far considering you were absolutely not expecting eggs!

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She seems to have dark eyes, it's hard to tell as she has aggression issues, but I'd say it seems a much darker colour than my pastel, who has quite clearly green eyes

Thank you for your support!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snow Balls

I was going to add, I would not under any circumstances do business with whoever sold you again. That person sounded like he didn’t know what he was doing to begin with. I’m also very impressed with you being able to come up with an incubator and incubating these eggs successfully full term. Like Nikkubus said I will also do my very best to help ID these snakes once they shed


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He literally told me I was a "stupid girl" and that "this isn't really a ladies hobby". I was so insulted I just hung up. Trust me, I will never do business with them again.

Btw he also told me that Hendrix was a ' het mohave ' which isn't possible....

Again, thank you so much!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by marigoldmenagerie

He literally told me I was a "stupid girl" and that "this isn't really a ladies hobby". I was so insulted I just hung up. Trust me, I will never do business with them again.

Btw he also told me that Hendrix was a ' het mohave ' which isn't possible....

Again, thank you so much!

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That’s ridiculous, there’s plenty of women in this hobby that I’m sure are far more successful breeders and keepers than he is anyways. I don’t blame you for hanging up. A het Mojave isn’t even possible lmfao


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by marigoldmenagerie

He literally told me I was a "stupid girl" and that "this isn't really a ladies hobby". I was so insulted I just hung up. Trust me, I will never do business with them again.

Btw he also told me that Hendrix was a ' het mohave ' which isn't possible....

Again, thank you so much!

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I would consider the source, and take absolutely no offence on that basis alone. He is in no position to be calling anyone else stupid. While if you want to get technical, a Mojave IS a "het Mojave" because het means they have one copy of a gene, you certainly can't have a BP with a hidden recessive Mojave gene, and practically nobody calls a Mojave a "het Mojave". He sounds like he either has no clue what he is talking about, or pretending not to in order to rip people off, or both.

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

I would consider the source, and take absolutely no offence on that basis alone. He is in no position to be calling anyone else stupid. While if you want to get technical, a Mojave IS a "het Mojave" because het means they have one copy of a gene, you certainly can't have a BP with a hidden recessive Mojave gene, and practically nobody calls a Mojave a "het Mojave". He sounds like he either has no clue what he is talking about, or pretending not to in order to rip people off, or both.

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Also bought a banana 'clown' female from him about a week after I got Hendrix only for it not to be a clown. Pretty much just took advantage of us as we hadn't kept the species before and took his word on good faith. Pretty embarrassing now.

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For the babies leave them until they come out on their own. Personally I don't think ball python eggs should be cut but if you do decide to cut them (in the future if you breed) wait until 24 hours after the first pip or until the second pip. If you're considering buying a snake you can use Morphmarket and look at snakes with the same genes to see if they look similar (to verify the genetics). You can also start a new thread on here for identification help. Often snakes are identified correctly but unfortunately you still sometimes end up with people who try to rip you off.

Hey guys, it's been a few days. I have been very concerned about my babies. Their whites have changed, some of them clouding or even yellowing.

I have been checking on them twice a day, and I have this awful feeling they're not doing well. A couple are staying belly up. I had a check just now and poked them gently, and less responded than last time.

Also, there is a distinct 'damp' smell. It's quite musty and smells like my dad's old basement apartment (idk if that helps?) so I wonder if that's mould?

My questions are;

1) How can I verify health and being 'alive'?
2) Is there a smell associated with dead fetuses? (I have only smelt damp smell, no sulphur like with dead mammals)
3) Is there a way I can tell how much longer they will be? (I am very worried)
4) What does a yellowing white mean?
5) What does a clouding white mean?
6) How can I spot mould on a cut egg? Does it start on the shell or on the white?

Thanks in advance!

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I see you have a lot of concerns, but, have very limited options at this point. Make sure temp. and humidity are in the proper range, and only open the incubator once/day for a quick peek. Dehydration is an issue with cut eggs and a damp paper towel (distilled water) should be covering them and preventing you from 'poking' the exposed embryos. Along those lines: movement inside the egg does not guarantee a successful hatch. There are a lot of things that can go wrong in the late stages of incubation and development...this is the point where you will see the ultimate result of any issue you had during the entire process.

As for dead eggs: Use your best judgement. Sometimes it is obvious, sometimes it is not. Even if I am 95% certain an egg is dead I will continue to incubate it until I am 100%-there is nothing to lose-and something to gain. Win or lose-it is a learning experience...Best of luck! :)

Bad smell doesn't happen as fast with eggs going bad as you might expect, but they can get quite stinky when they do start smelling. I don't normally cut until I get a pip, so I have limited experience with what goes on in this time frame. They won't always respond to touch, so that isn't much of a negative indication. Belly up is not a good sign though.

I agree with Lord Sorril, the best thing you can do is bug them as little as possible to preserve humidity, heat, and reduce contaminants being introduced.

If they don't end up making it, or some don't, don't beat yourself up. It can be really tough to get everything right, and you went into this whole situation without planning for it and did your best. Hopefully they do make it though! I'm crossing my fingers for you.

Hello, it's been a while! I definitely cut the eggs far too early as the first baby didn't emerge until Nov 30!!! I couldn't believe how far off I was.

One baby did unfortunately pass in the time I was waiting.

Baby number one came on Nov 30
Baby number two came Dec 1
Baby number three came Dec 2
Baby number four has his head out, but hasn't emerged yet.

Of the ones that have emerged, it looks like two normals and a pastel, but a couple of them have really scrambled patterning so I'll be back with pics once theyve shed.

I have just now moved the three that have hatched into a communal bin with a nice dark hide and damp paper towels.

I had a question though-

The three that have come out have been absorbing up their umbilicus but I notice where theyre healing there is vermiculite from the incubator stuck to the wound. I tried gently wiping with warm water but it didn't come off. Is this something to worry about or should it be ok?

Thanks again!


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It should come off with their first shed. Just make sure to keep things nice and clean and good humidity. You don't want egg goop laying around and molding.

Thanks again! The final baby emerged this afternoon, but remaining in the egg after he detached his umbilicus was this mass. Is this the yolk sac? And if so, do I need to take extra measures to keep him healthy considering he hasn't had his yolk?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0fe5b6ea6f.jpg

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Yes, that is unabsorbed yolk.

Some hatchlings are developed/large enough where a detached yolk is not an issue. Depending upon the body condition/size of the hatchling you will have to make a decision whether or not to wait for the natural feeding response to kick in...or jump-start it immediately after first shed by assist/force feeding before they run out of nutrients.

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Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

Yes, that is unabsorbed yolk.

Some hatchlings are developed/large enough where a detached yolk is not an issue. Depending upon the body condition/size of the hatchling you will have to make a decision whether or not to wait for the natural feeding response to kick in...or jump-start it immediately after first shed by assist/force feeding before they run out of nutrients.

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He seems just as big as his siblings. Weighs the same, only 2 grams less. Should I worry?

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He should be fine then :)