Anyone else get like this? (Sorta depressing topic)

So I don't know if this is the right place for this and I don't know if it applies to everyone. But do you ever have an animal pass away on you, could be one you work with or a pet, and it just hits you so hard that you're just like what's the point of keeping these animals? Then you wake up the next day and take care of the rest of the collection then are like oh this is why. Like there's no words to describe it. It's just the animals are worth it.

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Pretty sure most of us go through that. Though I can't remember the last time I specifically had that thought of "Why am I keeping other living things?" due to the fact that I grew accustomed to death from a very early age. There has never been a point in my life where there weren't pets of some kind or another in my place of dwelling, so that lesson has practically been hardwired into my brain from birth.

That said I certainly do get sad. Just this past summer we had to put down the family dog of 11 years and it was really rough. But I've long come to accept that death just, is. It will come for us all eventually (unless you're one of those immortal jellyfish or something :P) so being at peace with that fact makes it easier. I grieve, but I don't let it consume me and prevent me from continuing to do what I love.

Sure. That's the story of life...humans or pets, nothing is forever. Focus on the "here & now"- Our beautiful pets are a great reason to get up in the morning, & they make it easy to stay "in the moment" & have things to look forward to. :snake: There's many others too- it's always better to focus on the good things in life. Life will never be perfect, but it beats the alternative. :cool:

Makes sense. I'm glad I'm not alone lol. Hard to lose an animal but it's definitely rewarding working with and keeping animals. They're the best.

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Originally Posted by Neko_snake

Makes sense. I'm glad I'm not alone lol. Hard to lose an animal but it's definitely rewarding working with and keeping animals. They're the best.

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This last summer I had to say goodbye to one of my dogs- she was 16 years old & she had a very good long life. Goodbyes are hard, even when their health is failing, but I'm thankful she was there with me for so long & for so much fun. And I still have another dog, he misses her too, but we've helped each other to adjust & go on. That's all we can do- the longer you live, the more pets & people you'll have to say goodbye to, there's no way around it. It's hard, but we're all in this together. Our other pets (& people) need us too, & we need them. Just leave a little room for new loved ones- they come along just when you least expect it.

I had a similar experience when I lost my first tarantula - she'd only been here 2 days and never did well, I stayed up with her trying to give her water and keep her warm and finally had to admit I was doing more harm than good by intervening. I was shocked how hard I took it, I was in tears. But I think with spiders and sometimes reptiles it's hard because the relationship is very one-sided - you can care about them a lot but they don't understand that you're trying to help, and they take no comfort from you being there like a dog would. With a cat or dog that's sick or hurt, just you being there with them helps a lot, because they understand you're going to help them. I know people who work with injured wildlife and even a hawk or coyote will sometimes sit quietly for treatment because they start to put together "oh, this weird animal isn't here to hurt me."
With exotics too it can be hard to find people who understand and who won't say "well it was just a spider / it was just a lizard" etc etc. But I'm sure everybody here understands and knows how hard it can be.

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Originally Posted by plateOfFlan

I had a similar experience when I lost my first tarantula - she'd only been here 2 days and never did well, I stayed up with her trying to give her water and keep her warm and finally had to admit I was doing more harm than good by intervening. I was shocked how hard I took it, I was in tears. But I think with spiders and sometimes reptiles it's hard because the relationship is very one-sided - you can care about them a lot but they don't understand that you're trying to help, and they take no comfort from you being there like a dog would. With a cat or dog that's sick or hurt, just you being there with them helps a lot, because they understand you're going to help them. I know people who work with injured wildlife and even a hawk or coyote will sometimes sit quietly for treatment because they start to put together "oh, this weird animal isn't here to hurt me."
With exotics too it can be hard to find people who understand and who won't say "well it was just a spider / it was just a lizard" etc etc. But I'm sure everybody here understands and knows how hard it can be.

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Interesting you say this because I've had an experience where I believe an exotic animal did have something of an understanding that I was trying to help.

Earlier this year my BP had an exceptionally bad shed (I was really unwell at the time and fell behind with humidity levels), and by the time I was able to help remove the rest it was really stuck on. So I had to manually, gently, peel it off between soakings, with most of it being around the neck and most of the head.

Despite having to take over an hour to get it all off, he never once tried to bite me or flail around. Some minor jerking away whenever I had to work on his head sure, but it's as if he could understand what I was doing to enough of a degree that he didn't panic.

So far only with cats, lol.

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Originally Posted by plateOfFlan

... I know people who work with injured wildlife and even a hawk or coyote will sometimes sit quietly for treatment because they start to put together "oh, this weird animal isn't here to hurt me."...

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Like when a dolphin or whale has deliberately approached people for help because they're tangled in nets & all- it's awesome. I can't speak for tarantulas because I don't have much experience with them, but I think the same is true of many snakes too, at least in my experience. Even some wild snakes you wouldn't expect to hold still for help without biting, but they do. It's as if they can sense you're not trying to harm them & they realize they need help. Nothing we can ever prove but something to keep in mind- I try never to underestimate an animal's intelligence- just because it's very different from ours, & even though they can't show expressions the way we do. I think that when you do good things for other creatures, it does good for you too- you feel it in your heart, don't you? And that makes your life better too, doesn't it? I think it does.

I think for snakes it's their thought of "this animal isn't going to hurt me instantly" and they stop struggling to conserve energy. I don't think they have emotions but I think they understand enough to known when and when not to struggle (which spends energy they can't always afford to lose). But just because they get nothing out of it doesn't mean we don't. After helping an animal we do feel better even if that animal doesn't care (in the case of reptiles).

Yeah it's hard not to anthropomorphize any animal. Reptile or bird or mammal. Reptiles might not express things like we do like they can't cry like a human or even whine like a dog when something hurts, but even so if you can read their cues they'll tell you they're injured or are doing well or even that they're not afraid to be held.

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Originally Posted by Erie_herps

I think for snakes it's their thought of "this animal isn't going to hurt me instantly" and they stop struggling to conserve energy. I don't think they have emotions but I think they understand enough to known when and when not to struggle (which spends energy they can't always afford to lose). But just because they get nothing out of it doesn't mean we don't. After helping an animal we do feel better even if that animal doesn't care (in the case of reptiles).

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I like to think in at least some instances they feel physical relief. Like, surely having stuck shed removed has to feel good no? Whether or not they associated that relief with the person that did it for them remains to be seen but, snakes have been shown to be able to recognize people (usually in a "giver of food" sense but it's something) so it stands to reason that they have the potential to put two and two together that the large weird biped has helped them in other ways too.

Snakes come into this world with instincts that initially work against them being pets- that is, everything is either predator or prey, or maybe "neither" & just something to be ignored. And they react accordingly when handled, showing fear & self-defense. But just as in nature, where they must learn their way around & find hiding places to survive heat, cold & predation, we're just another thing they learn to deal with in their instinctive efforts to stay safe, keep eating & hopefully to reproduce.

We'll never know precisely what they think of us, & that's okay- humans have been reading into the minds of dogs, cats & horses for centuries, & the more time goes on, the more we find out that yes, many animals have more brains & awareness than we previously thought. Horses & dogs, for example, are pretty good at reading human facial expressions, even as we're busy reading theirs.

The charge often leveled at snake intelligence often has to do with brain size, but that's not something with a direct correlation, because snakes have a much simpler body to control (no limbs, etc), & some brains are far more efficient than others- it's not directly the result of size alone. Snakes clearly can remember- otherwise I'd have to re-tame my snakes every time I make contact...right? But even when I don't handle some snakes for a long while, they don't forget they're safe with me- they still obviously know & accept me- they don't revert to "wild".

The big objection to "anthropomorphism" by the scientific community has mellowed in recent years, as we've learned more about what some animals are capable of. I also think that it's partly due to the way humans generally put themselves on a pedestal- and while it's true that we can do many things that animals so far cannot, we're also the most destructive force on the planet. No members of the animal kingdom can detonate atomic bombs & none of them mess up the environment the way we do. (How "smart" is that?) So we should keep ourselves in perspective, don't you think? ;)

And that's why I give snakes the "benefit of the doubt". It feels right to me to keep an open mind rather than trying to say they absolutely can't or don't have certain abilities that we can't prove. They often appear to do goofy things, but if we had the same limits (poor eyesight, deaf & no limbs) how smart would we look? And how long would we last?

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Snakes come into this world with instincts that initially work against them being pets- that is, everything is either predator or prey, or maybe "neither" & just something to be ignored. And they react accordingly when handled, showing fear & self-defense. But just as in nature, where they must learn their way around & find hiding places to survive heat, cold & predation, we're just another thing they learn to deal with in their instinctive efforts to stay safe, keep eating & hopefully to reproduce.

We'll never know precisely what they think of us, & that's okay- humans have been reading into the minds of dogs, cats & horses for centuries, & the more time goes on, the more we find out that yes, many animals have more brains & awareness than we previously thought. Horses & dogs, for example, are pretty good at reading human facial expressions, even as we're busy reading theirs.

The charge often leveled at snake intelligence often has to do with brain size, but that's not something with a direct correlation, because snakes have a much simpler body to control (no limbs, etc), & some brains are far more efficient than others- it's not directly the result of size alone. Snakes clearly can remember- otherwise I'd have to re-tame my snakes every time I make contact...right? But even when I don't handle some snakes for a long while, they don't forget they're safe with me- they still obviously know & accept me- they don't revert to "wild".

The big objection to "anthropomorphism" by the scientific community has mellowed in recent years, as we've learned more about what some animals are capable of. I also think that it's partly due to the way humans generally put themselves on a pedestal- and while it's true that we can do many things that animals so far cannot, we're also the most destructive force on the planet. No members of the animal kingdom can detonate atomic bombs & none of them mess up the environment the way we do. (How "smart" is that?) So we should keep ourselves in perspective, don't you think? ;)

And that's why I give snakes the "benefit of the doubt". It feels right to me to keep an open mind rather than trying to say they absolutely can't or don't have certain abilities that we can't prove. They often appear to do goofy things, but if we had the same limits (poor eyesight, deaf & no limbs) how smart would we look? And how long would we last?

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I understand that exactly. It's just like the saying goes "if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree,:cens0r:it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." The fish isn't stupid it's just built different for different things. So even if our scaly friends can't talk or show emotions like we do, it doesn't make them stupid. Just built different. They obviously can remember, we just don't know how that translates to our version of intelligence.

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I think I'm also a "glass-half-full" type- I don't dwell on what snakes cannot do- I couldn't care less if they can't do trigonometry, lol- I appreciate all that they CAN do- I enjoy having them around for "who they are". And it's sorta sneaky, but I also appreciate the fact that whenever I try to convey to a snake I'm holding that they're "safe" with me, I feel the same positive vibes myself. Like when you're holding other pets, they now know that lowers your blood pressure, so if you're comfortable with snakes, obviously that's the same thing that's going on. Pets are good for people, so the least we can do is be good for them too.

Sometimes when I have 20 tubs to clean after work I feel like that. And get the same feeling once I start and start handling all the animals and see their growth and health. It never gets old. So I can totally relate in that aspect. As for the animals passing that can be very difficult. I just try to keep in mind that under my care my animals have had the best opportunity for a great life. Last year my 16 yo dog passed and it was very difficult. But I sat back and I thought that at least while he was with me I gave him the best life that I could have. Hopefully that helps you also.

Sean

Ah, I didn't mean to seem like I was down on exotics and their abilities. Just the moments when that gulf in understanding becomes apparent are the most frustrating to me, as a keeper. When you have a bad handling session or they get scared or upset by something you're doing, and you can't make them understand. But just like Neko_snake was saying, there's also moments when you realize this undomesticated animal, with most of its wild instincts still intact, decides to trust you, it's really awesome. Like the other night I offered a rat to my guy, knowing he was early in shed and might not take it. He had a lengthy will-he-won't-he of stalking and retreating, I dropped the rat and left him to it, and he apparently got frustrated and dragged it all over the enclosure getting quite avant-garde with rat juices all over everything, then stuffed himself behind some decorations and sulked. I took everything out, cleaned it, tossed the rat, and when I went to put him back in, he looked at his tank and doubled back up my arm and climbed into my sweatshirt pocket instead (I often carry him around in there but he's never gotten in on his own before). After an apparently frustrating night, given the choice of going back to his familiar enclosure or hanging out with me awhile, he picked the latter. Little things like that just make you go "this is amazing" despite some of the frustrations.