Advice on Not Eating and Setup

On 19 September I picked up a female BP, born on 25 July. The breeder gave me some documentation showing the feeding he had done to that point. After a couple of tries that week, she ate another thawed mouse on 25 September. As per today, 11 October, she has not eaten since, about 15 days. I am starting to get a bit worried. Her weight on 19 September was 137 grams. Her weight today is 153 grams. Below was her feeding schedule. As far as I can tell she has not pooped since I have had her. Not sure if it's because she is so small and the substrate I use absorbed it, or because she does not seem to eat often, so she just has not had one?

Feedings
13.08 - First feeding since birth on 25 July
16.08 - 3 day gap since previous feeding
22.08 - 6 day gap since previous feeding
05.09 - 14 day gap since previous feeding
25.09 - 20 day gap since previous feeding

When I first brought her home, all I had were the three hides. I have added the plants over the last 10 days. Temps are 32C/90F on the hot side, 27C/81F on the cold side. My humidifier keeps it around 60%, although it can dip down to below 50%, and go up to above 70% when it goes off and comes one, respectively.

Can anyone confirm whether it is normal not to find poop, or whether it is possible that she has not pooped since 19 September? Seems unlikely to me. Also would appreciate feedback on whether I should be worried about the gap between feedings. My understanding is that hatchlings/young snakes should eat every 7-10 days at most, so not sure if this is normal for a 2.5 month old snake.

Thanks in advance for any feedback/suggestions.

Don't know how to insert a pic.

Here is the setup.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../6/snake_4.jpg

I think your enclosure could use some improvements. If you decrease the stress from the enclosure she should eat better. When you first get a snake you should wait 2 weeks before handling, feeding, changing anything in the enclosure, or disturbing at all. There's nothing you can do about it now but hopefully you know for the future. Additionally I think some more cover would help in the enclosure. A snake, especially a shy one like a ball python, should be able to cross the entire enclosure without being seen. If there isn't enough cover they will become stressed. I would also recommend covering the back and sides. A younger, active snake won't poop as much since their body is using up most of the calories and nutrients in the food to grow and there isn't much left over. So she might not have pooped at all and if she did it would be very small and hard to see.

I agree with Erie_herps ^ ^ ^ and also, I'm not seeing the "3 hides" you mentioned? He needs at least one of the right size & type on the cool (unheated) side & one on the warmer side- the lack of "security" will make a snake too nervous to eat.

Also, the young prey (baby mice or rats) that young snakes typically consume are mostly digestible- there isn't much waste leftover that the snake needs to expel, since they have much smaller bones & far less hair.

Besides that, we need to know more about what prey you're offering & HOW you're offering it. BPs are ambush-predators that prefer to feed at night, in low light.

What prey you're offering (size & type, live or f/t, etc) & how you're offering (from tongs, drop feeding, etc) are likely part of the reason your snake isn't eating often enough.

Offering prey the right way will embolden the snake to grab & consume the prey, but if it's offered incorrectly, you can scare the snake into refusing to eat. A little wiggle is helpful, but too much, or making it seem like the prey is approaching the snake, is a big turn-off.

Do you feed the snake IN his home? (that's a "must") If the prey is f/t, do you warm it before offering, so it seems life-like? (BPs use their heat-sensing pits to identify & strike their prey.)

Regarding the hides, there is the tree bark on the right, where she spends most of her time, because she can wedge herself in it seems to be the best size for her. There is also a hollow of tube of wood just to the left of the fern, which she has been in a few times, but prefers less because it has holes in it. The last hide is nearly impossible to see in my pic (apologies), but it's behind the leftmost plant and is a plastic hide with two entrances and is under the heat lamp. She has used this one some as well.

I agree regarding lack of cover. I will add more wood for her to climb if she wants, as well as more plants. I have been googling other options as well. I will also cover the back and sides, although not sure what substance is best.

Regarding feeding, she has been raised on f/t mice. The last mouse I gave her was between 20-30 grams, and not larger than her body at the thickest spot. I thaw in a bowl of warm, hot water, then try to feed her in the tank, using tongs. The last time she ate, she would not take from the tongs, so I left it on top of a hide and it was gone in the morning. I generally try to feed at night when she would be active, but since her last feeding she has been hiding more than moving. I check at night and she rarely comes out of her hide, which is why I assumed she is stressed.

Your enclosure is nice to look at but it's not meeting the needs of the snake. I prioritize the needs of my snakes first, way before what their home looks like to me.

What I mean by "hides" are like these- many of us use these exact ones, & snakes like them (eat & thrive): https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...mbs/mdhide.jpg

From what you describe, this is one of your big problems- your snake doesn't feel secure. That tube thing doesn't cut it, nor the hide with 2 doorways- you want something like what is shown above, with only ONE doorway. You need at least 2, as I already said. You can partly bury them if you don't like the "look", or put leaves over top of them, but they need to be there for the snake to use, to feel SAFE.

You can also take some black construction paper (or scenery made for tanks) or cardboard...whatever...to cover the back & one or both sides of the tank. If you aren't keen on the look, it can be temporary*, but at least try it- young snakes need to be eating regularly, & to do that, they need a sense of security. (*though removing it later, once the snake is used to privacy, could backfire.) BTW, if you live in a cold climate & have trouble keeping the temps. up in this tank, you can also "insulate" behind the scenery you install. (Corrugated cardboard or poster-board with a foam core makes helpful insulation, but many things work, depending on what you need in a cold room.)

By the way, you don't need to remove those "hides" she now has- as long as you add the real hides that do the job. You'll probably need to re-arrange them though. Open ended cork bark or tree bark tunnels make for nice "furniture" for a snake, but they just don't qualify as "hides" needed for security. OK?

Ok, understood. I’ll replace the hides immediately. I’m looking for containers around the house that I can convert to hides that for her size.


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Originally Posted by robithinker

Ok, understood. I’ll replace the hides immediately. I’m looking for containers around the house that I can convert to hides that for her size.


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Clean cardboard boxes can work just fine (though disposable when they get soiled or damp)- cereal & cracker boxes are often the right size/shape. The advantage of the hides sold by Reptile Basics is that they have more weight to them- when snakes go under a lightweight cardboard box, it can easily lift up & feel less safe to them. The plastic RB hides are washable & last "forever"- and they're not very pricey at all. Other sources sell similar ones too- the Bean Farm has great herp supplies too, but depending what country you're in-?-might not be available to you either. Some ppl have converted plastic flower pot "saucers" to snake hides by cutting in a doorway, & clean plastic food containers are often used for snakes too (again, cut a doorway- I use a sharp box-cutter knife, or an Exacto-knife to cut.) Food containers -if used- are best if not see-thru though- it's harder to find opaque ones. But yes, many things can work- be made into hides for snakes. :gj:

I assume you also know not to handle a snake that isn't a strong feeder? Handling makes a small creature like a snake feel powerless*- they're predators & they need all the bravery they can muster to go after their prey- especially while they're learning-practicing-& feeling stronger. *Keep in mind that the only thing that picks up a snake in the wild is a predator about to eat THEM. So whatever you do, never handle a snake before you feed them- not if you expect them to eat. ;)

I made this one and will make two more like it (or close off one of the holes in the other hide that has two entrances). Should a hide be opaque?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ef9767a9e7.jpg


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Ideally it should be but the hide is still good temporarily. You could cover it with tape or leaves so light can't get through.

Optimally hides should be opaque. The only issue with this one is that you used tape, which is dangerous in a snake enclosure. The humidity & warmth provided tends to loosen tape- which then can stick on the snake when is slides past, with very bad effects. If they get near the heat, for example, the tape can essentially end up being "hot-glued" to the snake. Please re-think your hides- sorry to say- I know you mean well, but it has happened enough times that we know about, so we advise against using ANY tape in ANY snake enclosure.

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Originally Posted by Erie_herps

Ideally it should be but the hide is still good temporarily. You could cover it with tape or leaves so light can't get through.

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In my opinion, you should never have any sort of tape inside a snakes enclosure. They can and will get it stuck to them and it wont be very fun trying to get it off

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Originally Posted by robithinker

After a couple of tries that week

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How often are you trying to feed this snake exactly? Because "a couple of tries a week" is to much for a BP

Were you using the tape to cover sharp edges on the "hide" after cutting the doorway? If so, all you need to do is slightly melt the plastic. Get a cheap "soldering iron"- which is also what most ppl use to put ventilation holes in the plastic tubs they use for snakes. Like this: "30 watt lightweight soldering iron"
(always do this- melting plastic- OUTSIDE like on porch or in garage- as the fumes are very toxic- avoid breathing them, okay?)

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach.../9/69060_I.jpg

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Originally Posted by Snow Balls

In my opinion, you should never have any sort of tape inside a snakes enclosure. They can and will get it stuck to them and it wont be very fun trying to get it off

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Actually, it can tear their scales off when you try to remove it- and remember, you cannot use any sort of solvent on a snake's body- it would be toxic & probably sicken or kill them.
So just don't use tape....please? :snake:

Regarding tape, yes, I have read about the dangers. I figured if it’s duct tape and on the cool end of the cage it would minimize the risk (at least until I can get a more permanent solution), but I guess it probably does not make sense to take the risk.

As an aside, I live in Switzerland. Reptile/snake supplies are fairly thin to come by. f”Frozen food/heating solutions are no issue, but acquarium decorations are more difficult to source. Ordering from abroad is difficult, if they even deliver to Switzerland, as it is not technically in the EU. So the few places that do deliver often charge excessive shipping and/or import duties.

Here is a second I made, but it is even less opaque than the first. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...32dbf2f7f5.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...32dbf2f7f5.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...32dbf2f7f5.jpg


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Ok no tape.

Please understand, I am completely focused on the well being of my snake. If the consensus is against something, then I take that to heart.


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I also bought some foam rubber sheets to glue to the back and sides while I was at the store, and another plant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ed5ee29f59.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by robithinker

...I figured if it’s duct tape and on the cool end of the cage it would minimize the risk (at least until I can get a more permanent solution), but I guess it probably does not make sense to take the risk.

As an aside, I live in Switzerland...

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The problem with snakes is that sometimes -usually overnight- they rearrange the furniture- you cannot count on things staying where you put them. :D Snakes will be snakes...and we'd rather keep you & your snake out of trouble by giving you the benefit of our experience.

Helps knowing roughly where you are- so you're in a place that might benefit from "insulating" the sides of this tank, instead of just covering some of his "panoramic view". ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by robithinker

I also bought some foam rubber sheets to glue to the back and sides while I was at the store, and another plant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkhttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ed5ee29f59.jpg

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You mean for the outside, as insulation & privacy? :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Were you using the tape to cover sharp edges on the "hide" after cutting the doorway? If so, all you need to do is slightly melt the plastic. Get a cheap "soldering iron"- which is also what most ppl use to put ventilation holes in the plastic tubs they use for snakes. Like this: "30 watt lightweight soldering iron"
(always do this- melting plastic- OUTSIDE like on porch or in garage- as the fumes are very toxic- avoid breathing them, okay?)

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach.../9/69060_I.jpg

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Yes I was. I do have a soldering iron I’ll use that


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

You mean for the outside, as insulation & privacy? :gj:

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Yes


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There's always more than one way to accommodate the needs of our serpents, & we don't mind one bit helping you brainstorm some improvements so your snake thrives. Creativity comes in pretty handy when keeping snakes- I'm prone to wandering hardware ("home improvement") stores for ideas & solutions too- & I have done so for many years. Keeps things interesting. :D

I made some changes to the tank last Tuesday based on everyone's feedback. I added a new hide (in the middle with rocks glued to the top of it), and more plants. I am waiting on a couple more to be delivered. She still did not eat. I left her untouched from Tuesday to today. It has now been 21 days. I thawed out a mouse then left it under the heat lamp for about 10 minutes, then used the blow dryer for about 30 seconds to send the scent into the cage, then left it overnight on top of the hide in the middle. She is staying mostly in the hide on the right. This morning I put the mouse in front of the hide where she is laying and not a thing. Not sure when/if I should take her to a vet. She is only 3 months old.
[IMG]https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...tank_thumb.jpg[/IMG]

It takes time for many snakes to accept changes in their homes- BPs are often sensitive about this, because their modus operandi is to lay low & hide- they're ambush-predators, so change makes them feel insecure. If you don't see symptoms of something a vet needs to treat, it's unlikely they can help you with getting a BP to eat. Vets are there to treat illness, & to do surgery when needed- when you take in a snake that has no apparent illness, not only do they generally not know how to help you, but they may run tests or even try to prescribe something that may cause more harm than good in the way of stressing your snake, so be careful to choose a vet that's well-versed with snake-keeping, IF & when you actually have a sick snake. In your case, it appears to be husbandry issues with an unsettled-in BP. That could change in time though, as stress in snakes lowers their immune health just as it does in us & other creatures.