Retrofitting china cabinets?

Been thinking about it for future species (namely a blue beauty), and I've noticed that when it comes to PVC enclosures I always seem to run into an issue of them not being long enough, or tall enough since VBBRS like some arboreal opportunities. And any that offer sufficient length and height often have very lofty prices of over a grand.

And then I thought of folks that utilize china cabinets as snake enclosures which in theory would (should I find one suitable) provide both dimensions while not breaking the bank. Plus I'd undoubtedly be able to get such a setup up and running at a far more reasonable time compared to the multiple months a lot of PVC companies take to make and ship these days (5 months in waiting for the T10 I ordered for my BP for example and probably another 5 to go with how everything's been delayed). Obviously there are extra factors to consider like modifications (sealants, vents, wiring, ect.) and finding one made out of safe wood that doesn't have dangerous oils and/or chemical treatments, but I'm curious if others here have tried this method and would love to hear of any successes and challenges involved.

I did exactly this many years ago, for my Taiwan Beauty rat snake. I know I've described it in at least one thread here, but off-hand I don't recall which one. Might try a search?
It worked great, incidentally. No time att to give details, but will get back to it when I can.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I did exactly this many years ago, for my Taiwan Beauty rat snake. I know I've described it in at least one thread here, but off-hand I don't recall which one. Might try a search?
It worked great, incidentally. No time att to give details, but will get back to it when I can.

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Gave it an honest try with multiple keywords but I couldn't find a thread of yours involving a cabinet enclosure. :confuzd:

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

Gave it an honest try with multiple keywords but I couldn't find a thread of yours involving a cabinet enclosure. :confuzd:

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I didn't start the thread, just posted about what I've done in a discussion of DIY / furniture conversions.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I didn't start the thread, just posted about what I've done in a discussion of DIY / furniture conversions.

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Even looked for general keywords (cabinet, enclosure and whatnot) and no luck. Ah well.

I don't see why this wouldn't work. Seen a few set ups for differen't species of lizard done in old china cabinets. The only thing I would say is pay attention to the original paint/stain used if you get a really old cabinet. The safety standards weren't really there back in the day lol, would probably be best to do some really good clean up and sanding, then reseal the entire thing.

You've probably already done so, but if you just google something like "bearded dragon china cabinet enclosure" there are a few great examples of what you can do.

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

Even looked for general keywords (cabinet, enclosure and whatnot) and no luck. Ah well.

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I don't find that our "search" feature works all that well for me either, fwiw. ;)

Anyway- there's a great deal of variation in furniture, so it's pretty much impossible to give detailed instructions. As already mentioned, pay BIG attention to safety for your pets when it comes to finishes that may have been used.

In MY case, I bought a large & very sturdy UN-finished solid wood open adjustable-shelf multi-purpose cabinet many years ago. Since I originally finished it, it has been reincarnated several times now: it once held stereo & books/misc., but when I got into keeping snakes, I saw how easily I could enclose the back (with thin, fancy plywood) & sides (using sheets of perforated metal- sold in hardware/home improvement stores) for the sides to give excellent cross-ventilation, & also made optional lightweight wood covers (out of extra scraps from the "back") to block/reduce the ventilation in winter). The perforated metal is really cool- just make sure to install the "rough side" facing outward, so the snake won't abrade their nose if they happen to rub on it.

The hinged top lifts up & allows access to a recessed light fixture that the snake cannot touch- it's blocked with metal mesh screening. I had double front-doors professionally made & installed- they have 2/3 glass "windows" & my skilled cabinet guy installed them beautifully with piano hinges. I also got help with installing an actual 'home' thermostat, connected to a heat cable that I installed about a foot up from the floor, parallel to the floor & encircling the sides & back- not the front, because the doors had to open- & it worked perfectly! The floor was designed to be cooler & since heat rises, it went according to plan. BTW, this was many years ago- I couldn't have bought a thermostat like most of you are now using if I'd wanted to, lol- but fyi, the ones used on houses can work just fine. In case you're wondering, this vertical cabinet housed a very happy Taiwan Beauty rat snake.

I haven't bought any unfinished furniture in years, nor priced any- I'm quite sure that the prices have gone up considerably, but considering that you can get exactly what you want, then finish it using snake-safe products without having the mess of stripping old finished off, I think it's probably still worth it. Oh, and I installed good casters on the bottom of this cabinet too, so it's easy to move.

I mentioned back at the beginning that this cabinet has been "reincarnated" more than once. It eventually became a really nice china cabinet (& still is), lined with fancy brocade* fabric but I'll spare you all the details. (*There was a local store that bought up all sorts of drapes & shades that were returned to JCPenny & re-sold them very cheaply- that's where I got the fabrics- just took a few matching Roman shades apart, for about $2 apiece.) :D It's so much fun being creative, & I've often cruised thru "thrift stores" with an eye for good cabinets (solid wood, NOT particle-board crappola) that I might re-purpose. Real wood may cost more to start with, but it doesn't fall apart in a couple years like the cheap stuff does- it's worth it.

The cabinet I've been describing was NOT my only make-over, btw. On a few other cabinets, I installed sliding NON-overlapping glass doors** on the front- they slid in aluminum tracks that I installed, & locked securely using a simple metal peg inserted into a hole drilled in the wood cabinet on either side, & past which they couldn't be moved.) You could also have a handyman or under-employed (retired?) cabinet-maker build something exactly to your specs if you like, if you're not adventurous enough to build your own, & save some money by only doing the finishing touches. Like I said, it's FUN. (Remember to water-proof everything for snakes- with non-toxic NO VOC products.) **The local glass shop can make exactly what you need in tempered glass with rounded edges.

I imagine you can also make a little less work for yourself if you find one with certain "features" already built in? Like glass doors that can easily have a lock attached and such? Another thing is substrate. Most china cabinets don't have a bottom lip so would one have to build in a little "ledge" to keep it from falling out every time you open the enclosure? I'm also curious how sealing works. Is it just sealing the edges and corners or are the entire inner walls of the cabinet coated?

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

I imagine you can also make a little less work for yourself if you find one with certain "features" already built in? Like glass doors that can easily have a lock attached and such? Another thing is substrate. Most china cabinets don't have a bottom lip so would one have to build in a little "ledge" to keep it from falling out every time you open the enclosure? I'm also curious how sealing works. Is it just sealing the edges and corners or are the entire inner walls of the cabinet coated?

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Sure, by all means look for features that work for you, OR, pieces that lend themselves to what you need.

Tempered glass sliders are fairly cheap- it's just glass, but much more to have wood doors with glass windows.

Installing a "ledge" would be easy enough to restrain substrate.

But all wood (even assuming stained & finished) is NOT waterproof until YOU make it so, & that's the challenge. Ever leave a damp glass on furniture? So if this cabinet will be very moist or frequently so, you'd be better off lining the bottom with something* & sealing all the edges. (like with something used for countertops-showers-flooring-or even plexi/PVC, etc.) As with aquariums, corners can be sealed with aquarium silicone sealant- non-toxic when fully dried & cured. (It takes a LONG time to cure if you put it on too thick- be warned.) Sealing out moisture also seals out mold & pathogens that like to move into surfaces weakened by moisture- you'd want to coat ALL interior surfaces- you'll be sorry if you don't. There's other products that I've heard of also, but never worked with that you might consider using- (as I would, if I was doing another cabinet right now)- it's made to seal ponds & is fish-safe- I pulled this up real quick to point you in the right direction- https://pondwiki.com/pond-sealer-and-paint/ Such products that are safe for fish will be safe for herps too.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Sure, by all means look for features that work for you, OR, pieces that lend themselves to what you need.

Tempered glass sliders are fairly cheap- it's just glass, but much more to have wood doors with glass windows.

Installing a "ledge" would be easy enough to restrain substrate.

But all wood (even assuming stained & finished) is NOT waterproof until YOU make it so, & that's the challenge. Ever leave a damp glass on furniture? So if this cabinet will be very moist or frequently so, you'd be better off lining the bottom with something* & sealing all the edges. (like with something used for countertops-showers-flooring-or even plexi/PVC, etc.) As with aquariums, corners can be sealed with aquarium silicone sealant- non-toxic when fully dried & cured. (It takes a LONG time to cure if you put it on too thick- be warned.) Sealing out moisture also seals out mold & pathogens that like to move into surfaces weakened by moisture- you'd want to coat ALL interior surfaces- you'll be sorry if you don't.

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I'm guessing I simply use a sealant trowel to get a smooth even coating over the whole inner enclosure? And while I have an idea as to what wood types are safe, idk how I'd be able to tell what a cabinet was made of if there isn't a label, let alone if the wood was treated with anything potentially harmful. Any tips for that? Another thing is ventilation. Would something like circular sawing small slits on the back/sides be sufficient or would I need to be more intricate?

As an aside, did I accidentally leave a swear in my last message or something? I noticed you edited it and I'm not sure if I did something wrong? :confusd:

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

I'm guessing I simply use a sealant trowel to get a smooth even coating over the whole inner enclosure? And while I have an idea as to what wood types are safe, idk how I'd be able to tell what a cabinet was made of if there isn't a label, let alone if the wood was treated with anything potentially harmful. Any tips for that? Another thing is ventilation. Would something like circular sawing small slits on the back/sides be sufficient or would I need to be more intricate?

As an aside, did I accidentally leave a swear in my last message or something? I noticed you edited it and I'm not sure if I did something wrong? :confusd:

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No, that was me being distracted & fumbling my reply (hit wrong button) then restoring your post as it was, nothing you said, lol- multi-tasking att & not always good at it. :oops:

Trowel-? Depends on what product you'd use. Wood- wouldn't worry about what kind, you'd want to seal it (only non-toxic & NO VOC products) & make sure it doesn't off-gas. Any fumes means it's not fully dry or ready for occupant. If you drill vent holes, you'd want to seal inside them. Better to install an actual metal vent+, IMO, & the amount of ventilation you need depends on what kind of snake is occupying it. (as I said, for my rat snake, perforated metal worked great- they sell that in 3' x 3' sheets, cuts easily with metal shears)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

No, that was me being distracted & fumbling my reply (hit wrong button) then restoring your post as it was, nothing you said, lol- multi-tasking att & not always good at it. :oops:

Trowel-? Depends on what product you'd use. Wood- wouldn't worry about what kind, you'd want to seal it (only non-toxic & NO VOC products) & make sure it doesn't off-gas. Any fumes means it's not fully dry or ready for occupant. If you drill vent holes, you'd want to seal inside them. Better to install an actual metal vent+, IMO, & the amount of ventilation you need depends on what kind of snake is occupying it. (as I said, for my rat snake, perforated metal worked great- they sell that in 3' x 3' sheets, cuts easily with metal shears)

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That was my second guess. No worries, I'm no expert at multi-tasking myself. :rofl:

And sorry, not trowel. I meant a putty knife. You know, these things. Thought was I'd use aquarium silicon (which is animal-safe when cured) and use one to make a smooth coating over the walls. Another huge asset is having a mother who's a big DIY buff, so she'll be able to assist with things. But I'd still like to streamline things so I don't need to have her too involved so as to not make the whole proposition too much of a burden. She's already done so much for me and all that.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...lUP/s-l640.jpg
And fwiw, the snake wouldn't be moving directly to this type of enclosure, since it'll be in a quarantine tub first and then probably grown out a bit in my currently empty 30 gallon. So even post-arrival I'll have ample time to fine-tune everything. ;)

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

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And sorry, not trowel. I meant a putty knife. You know, these things. Thought was I'd use aquarium silicon (which is animal-safe when cured) and use one to make a smooth coating over the walls. Another huge asset is having a mother who's a big DIY buff, so she'll be able to assist with things. But I'd still like to streamline things so I don't need to have her too involved so as to not make the whole proposition too much of a burden. She's already done so much for me and all that.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...lUP/s-l640.jpg
And fwiw, the snake wouldn't be moving directly to this type of enclosure, since it'll be in a quarantine tub first and then probably grown out a bit in my currently empty 30 gallon. So even post-arrival I'll have ample time to fine-tune everything. ;)

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Um, no...you don't want to try to spread silicone aquarium sealant on flat surfaces...no, no, no...it's used in the corners, just like in actual aquariums. That's all- don't even go there.

Look into the pond sealants, perhaps, for what you're thinking- & again, I've never used them, but someone else here mentioned them a while back, if you can search that out. I don't remember who or how they used it, only that I became aware of such products att & thought they looked "interesting". (I enjoy hardware stores & thinking 'outside the box'.)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Um, no...you don't want to try to spread silicone aquarium sealant on flat surfaces...no, no, no...it's used in the corners, just like in actual aquariums. That's all- don't even go there.

Look into the pond sealants, perhaps, for what you're thinking- & again, I've never used them, but someone else here mentioned them a while back, if you can search that out. I don't remember who or how they used it, only that I became aware of such products att & thought they looked "interesting". (I enjoy hardware stores & thinking 'outside the box'.)

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Didn't think I'd get that kind of response. :weirdface

I don't know much about sealants and everywhere I look about them always says the same 100% silicon sealant or epoxy glue answer. Haven't really seen anything for what to use for full wall sealants.

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

Didn't think I'd get that kind of response. :weirdface

I don't know much about sealants and everywhere I look about them always says the same 100% silicon sealant or epoxy glue answer. Haven't really seen anything for what to use for full wall sealants.

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You're confusing "sealing" corners with sealing surfaces. Silicone aquarium sealant is thick, not spreadable- it's used to glue & seal corners so water doesn't leak out. Non-toxic once dry.

In a cabinet, you'd want to seal (coat) all the sides, bottom & top so moisture doesn't affect the wood, then you'd also want to "seal" the corner crevices (in case the water bowl got spilled, for example- you wouldn't want the cabinet ruined). I'm not sure if any "marine varnish/spar varnish" products are pet safe- probably not. Most waterproofing products are not made for use with sensitive pets- they're made to put on outside fences, wood floors, boats & decks- stuff like that. A quick search found this https://www.mychemicalfreehouse.net/...finishes.html-
it sounded promising but they're talking about human homes, not small pets, so don't go by their info. That's why I suggested the products for sealing ponds- those products are designed to be safe for fish & turtles, etc.

Search for "non-toxic waterproof sealant" & make sure you read all the fine print- you want something easy to paint on all sides. I've used waterproofing before- I think it was Thompson's water seal. It was easy to work with, dried clear. But depending on how/where it's used (how much moisture it's exposed to) it doesn't last forever, it needs re-coated in about 4 years. Just pulled this up:

Is Thompson's water Seal non-toxic?
Environmentally safe, will not harm plants, pets, fish, livestock, humans. Contains zero volatile organic compounds (VOC). No toxic fumes. Seals and protects with single application on most surfaces.



Bottom line- these projects take planning & research, so do your homework.;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

You're confusing "sealing" corners with sealing surfaces. Silicone aquarium sealant is thick, not spreadable- it's used to glue & seal corners so water doesn't leak out. Non-toxic once dry.

In a cabinet, you'd want to seal (coat) all the sides, bottom & top so moisture doesn't affect the wood, then you'd also want to "seal" the corner crevices (in case the water bowl got spilled, for example- you wouldn't want the cabinet ruined). I'm not sure if any "marine varnish/spar varnish" products are pet safe- probably not. Most waterproofing products are not made for use with sensitive pets- they're made to put on outside fences, wood floors, boats & decks- stuff like that. A quick search found this https://www.mychemicalfreehouse.net/...finishes.html-
it sounded promising but they're talking about human homes, not small pets, so don't go by their info. That's why I suggested the products for sealing ponds- those products are designed to be safe for fish & turtles, etc.

Search for "non-toxic waterproof sealant" & make sure you read all the fine print- you want something easy to paint on all sides. I've used waterproofing before- I think it was Thompson's water seal. It was easy to work with, dried clear. But depending on how/where it's used (how much moisture it's exposed to) it doesn't last forever, it needs re-coated in about 4 years. Just pulled this up:

Is Thompson's water Seal non-toxic?
Environmentally safe, will not harm plants, pets, fish, livestock, humans. Contains zero volatile organic compounds (VOC). No toxic fumes. Seals and protects with single application on most surfaces.



Bottom line- these projects take planning & research, so do your homework.;)

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Had a thought, what about non-adhesive vinyl sheet cut to fit after the corners/edges are sealed? I've seen some enclosures utilize it. It's water resistant, easily to clean with and there's plenty of styles to choose from to find something "fitting." Plus I wouldn't have to use any kind of chemicals to put it in, just some small screws should do the trick.

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

Had a thought, what about non-adhesive vinyl sheet cut to fit after the corners/edges are sealed? I've seen some enclosures utilize it. It's water resistant, easily to clean with and there's plenty of styles to choose from to find something "fitting." Plus I wouldn't have to use any kind of chemicals to put it in, just some small screws should do the trick.

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Personally I'd never use vinyl because I don't like breathing it, & snakes would be enclosed with it & they're far smaller & more vulnerable than we are. FYI, that "new car smell" that people like so much- it's not good for you, it's all that vinyl etc that cars are made from. You might look into the stuff they line shower walls with though.

Quick quote sample:
Does vinyl give off toxic fumes?



Due to the materials used in the production process of vinyl, it will sometimes emit various levels of VOCs into the air for a short amount of time after installation. These toxic chemicals can be harmful to air quality of the immediate environment it's installed in and may cause respiratory problems over time.Apr 8, 2020

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Personally I'd never use vinyl because I don't like breathing it, & snakes would be enclosed with it & they're far smaller & more vulnerable than we are. FYI, that "new car smell" that people like so much- it's not good for you, it's all that vinyl etc that cars are made from. You might look into the stuff they line shower walls with though.

Quick quote sample:
Does vinyl give off toxic fumes?



Due to the materials used in the production process of vinyl, it will sometimes emit various levels of VOCs into the air for a short amount of time after installation. These toxic chemicals can be harmful to air quality of the immediate environment it's installed in and may cause respiratory problems over time.Apr 8, 2020

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Yeesh... Think I'm just going to rest on this whole cabinet idea for the time being, the more I try to think about it the more complicated it gets.

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

Yeesh... Think I'm just going to rest on this whole cabinet idea for the time being, the more I try to think about it the more complicated it gets.

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I know what you mean- it's best planned carefully, not on a whim. It's more challenging if it's your first such project too.

Many things have drawbacks- for instance, Formica. It would be nice but it's really hard to work with (hard to cut), unless you can get someone skilled to do it for you- to cut the pieces to fit, then you install them & seal the corners.

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

Yeesh... Think I'm just going to rest on this whole cabinet idea for the time being, the more I try to think about it the more complicated it gets.

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Yea converting furniture is a big project and, in my experience limited as it is, sometimes even the best laid plan doesn't work out. As the popular military saying goes, no plan survives contact with the enemy. Sometimes you find a nice piece and what you had planned for it just doesn't work out. I was fortunate the couple of times this happened that I was able to clean the piece up enough to sell to the antiquing folks to use for its original purpose.

Don't get me wrong, it can be really rewarding to build your own stuff, but also frustrating and sometimes disappointing. Like Boger said, best to plan out ahead of time very carefully. Don't invest all your funds on the front end because odds are you'll need additional supplies as your project progresses.

I will add that there are PLENTY of things I won't tackle, & that any confidence I had to tackle the projects I've described evolved gradually: from first buying unfinished furniture many years ago & finishing it myself (mostly to save $ over buying expensive "real wood" pieces, & being unwilling to waste any $ on cheap particle-board junk that falls apart), then being an animal-lover, I had to learn to build my own cage tops (wood & 'hardware cloth') for aquariums I used for small pets (rodents first, later snakes). Long before I got into snakes, I ended up with a pair of chipmunks* that I needed to build a huge cage for from scratch- it wasn't perfect but it served the purpose quite nicely, & with each thing you do, you learn more ways to do things. (*FYI, the chipmunks were NOT taken from the wild, & I was overseas when I acquired them, not in the U.S.- by some miracle of circumstances, I was able to bring them back with me, & they lived out their natural lives with me.)

When I got into keeping snakes, I found available "cages" to be less than ideal- & this was some years back, when snakes weren't common pets at all, so I found myself seeing existing furniture in new ways, to make it work as a framework for what I wanted. I am certainly no skilled carpenter- just willing to do what I can with a few tools, like a jigsaw & a drill. I know my limits too- when to out-source help, as I did with the cabinet doors that had glass windows. :D

Snagrio- If you're a total beginner with all of this, you're probably better off not trying to do this- I only answered because you started this thread, not trying to pull you into a project that's too much for you. Saying it "can" be done, isn't the same thing as saying "you should try it..." Okay? As Hugsplox pointed out, things don't always work quite the way you expected either, & then it's either "on to plan B" or giving up. I don't give up, lol. Not without a big fight ;) but I research a lot first, & the more experience you have with a wide variety of materials & projects, the better.

As far as finding the right furniture to "convert"- where I am, there is a local small furniture store that builds some of their own pieces, & also carries pieces from other sources. They can & will do custom work, for "a price" of course. One time when I was in there just looking, they had a huge oak wardrobe cabinet (6' tall, about 4' wide as I recall). It was very gently used- the customer bought it from this store originally, but later decided to move & this cabinet was super heavy, plus it didn't fit their new place, so they consigned it back to the store to re-sell. I vaguely remember the price was negotiable, asking around $400. It was beautiful, & quite tempting, but TOO big & heavy- I didn't want to deal with it either.

But yes, I could "see it" as a great snake home, with the right modifications. One thing I wondered though was about the natural finish- I don't trust any oil finishes to be safe around snakes, & I don't think a safe coating could have been applied to seal & waterproof that wood. (To clarify- the oil in the woodgrain would not have allowed such water-based finishes to "stick".) So that was one complication- I'd have much preferred pine, like "This End UP" type of furniture. I have bought a few pieces from them over the years- that sort of furniture (sturdy with straight lines) is much easier to modify.

Anyway, when it comes to keeping arboreal snakes, I'd suggest looking for unfinished (-preferably) "wardrobe" cabinets- that's the right size & shape. For anyone that's up to the task, anyway. ;) Last but not least, make sure you have the time, the patience, & the space to work on such projects. Sometimes it's truly cheaper & best to just buy pre-made- we aren't all the same, nor are our circumstances. Pre-made may seem more expensive up-front, but it's ready to go, & doesn't carry the risk of not working out for whatever reasons, & wasting the materials that only frustrated you.

I'm getting war flashbacks to when I got that shoddy enclosure off of Craigslist. I also remember having a lot of arguments with my mother about my mother regarding why it wouldn't work (as good as she is with the construction end of things, she's not nearly as savvy when it comes to exotic pet stuff in regards to what's safe for them). Plus even just running rough calculations on what would be required with modifications and materials, there probably wouldn't be all that much money saved in the end compared to just getting a professional PVC build unless the cabinet was REALLY cheap, and we all know the adage of getting what you pay for...

I guess the question now goes back to, what in a general opinion is acceptable for an adult, 8-10' long VBBRS? I've heard 4'X2'X2' minimum but that sounds far too small for such a long and active animal. AP has a 6'X2'X4' that wouldn't completely break the bank even after upgrades, staying under a grand compared to just about every other PVC enclosure of a similar size elsewhere. Would that be a reasonable permanent size? Problem is though is that I'd have to place an order nearly the second I'd be financially about to, because my goodness the lead times are brutal. :doh:

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

I'm getting war flashbacks to when I got that shoddy enclosure off of Craigslist. I also remember having a lot of arguments with my mother about my mother regarding why it wouldn't work (as good as she is with the construction end of things, she's not nearly as savvy when it comes to exotic pet stuff in regards to what's safe for them). Plus even just running rough calculations on what would be required with modifications and materials, there probably wouldn't be all that much money saved in the end compared to just getting a professional PVC build unless the cabinet was REALLY cheap, and we all know the adage of getting what you pay for...

I guess the question now goes back to, what in a general opinion is acceptable for an adult, 8-10' long VBBRS? I've heard 4'X2'X2' minimum but that sounds far too small for such a long and active animal. AP has a 6'X2'X4' that wouldn't completely break the bank even after upgrades, staying under a grand compared to just about every other PVC enclosure of a similar size elsewhere. Would that be a reasonable permanent size? Problem is though is that I'd have to place an order nearly the second I'd be financially about to, because my goodness the lead times are brutal. :doh:

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I think the 6' tall x 4' wide x 2' deep would work just fine. 4'x2'x2'? No way I'd use that for an 8-10' snake :(, but it's going to take time to grow large- it won't need a huge home for quite a while.

Believe it or not, I've scored a few really nice wood furniture items in thrift stores, used, but which needed very minimal or nothing at all fixed. That's one thing I really like about the area I live in- there's quite a few good thrift stores, but naturally it takes luck & good timing to find the right thing when you need it. I think you're better off just saving for the right pre-built enclosure. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I think the 6' tall x 4' wide x 2' deep would work just fine. 4'x2'x2'? No way I'd use that for an 8-10' snake :(, but it's going to take time to grow large- it won't need a huge home for quite a while.

Believe it or not, I've scored a few really nice wood furniture items in thrift stores, used, but which needed very minimal or nothing at all fixed. That's one thing I really like about the area I live in- there's quite a few good thrift stores, but naturally it takes luck & good timing to find the right thing when you need it. I think you're better off just saving for the right pre-built enclosure. ;)

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That does beg the question. How fast do beauty snakes grow? While not Vietnamese blues you have had Taiwan beauties iirc, which is a close approximation.

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

That does beg the question. How fast do beauty snakes grow? While not Vietnamese blues you have had Taiwan beauties iirc, which is a close approximation.

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Like most things, snakes grow faster when they're young in order to survive predators, & they reproduce a.s.a.p. in the wild ("survival of the species"). Their rate of digestion/growth is temperature dependent so in captivity, with plenty of food, & no brumation, they'll get pretty big in about 2 years, but not maximum size for a while yet. As adults, their growth slows down some the older they get. You might ask those breeding VBBs for an estimation. But I would guess you'd have time to save for & order the adult-size home- assuming you have enough self-control to save $-? Not everyone does. The smaller enclosure (4x2x2) would be good for starters, & if well-taken care of, you could sell it when your snake needs the upgrade in a couple years. Not saying to wait until the last minute though to get on the "wait" list, but at least you'd be able to re-coup some $ from the first enclosure, that is, if you don't fill it again! :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Like most things, snakes grow faster when they're young in order to survive predators, & they reproduce a.s.a.p. in the wild ("survival of the species"). Their rate of digestion/growth is temperature dependent so in captivity, with plenty of food, & no brumation, they'll get pretty big in about 2 years, but not maximum size for a while yet. As adults, their growth slows down some the older they get. You might ask those breeding VBBs for an estimation. But I would guess you'd have time to save for & order the adult-size home- assuming you have enough self-control to save $-? Not everyone does. The smaller enclosure (4x2x2) would be good for starters, & if well-taken care of, you could sell it when your snake needs the upgrade.

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I don't actually have a 4'X2'X2', that was a hypothetical "what people said" thing. More than likely it'll be in a big sterlite tub before anything else since that's what's recommended for quarantine process (though a taller one than what my BP is in currently).

As for self-control, not having income for a while has instilled that quite deeply in my habits so I should be good. Though speaking of which to go slightly off-topic, I got confirmation that I landed that pet walking/sitting job just a few minutes ago, so my plans can for sure proceed. Huzzah! :D

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

I don't actually have a 4'X2'X2', that was a hypothetical "what people said" thing. More than likely it'll be in a big sterlite tub before anything else since that's what's recommended for quarantine process (though a taller one than what my BP is in currently).

As for self-control, not having income for a while has instilled that quite deeply in my habits so I should be good. Though speaking of which to go slightly off-topic, I got confirmation that I landed that pet walking/sitting job just a few minutes ago, so my plans can for sure proceed. Huzzah! :D

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Yes, I know you don't already have the 4x2x2- just saying, it might work best to buy that first, then plan to upgrade in about 2 years.

'Grats on the new job. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Yes, I know you don't already have the 4x2x2- just saying, it might work best to buy that first, then plan to upgrade in about 2 years.

'Grats on the new job. :gj:

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Ah, but then like you said I'll just be tempted to fill it with something else. After all, would be a shame to leave such a nice enclosure just sitting there empty. In other words, there's a reason my mother "encouraged" me to sell the 55 gallon tank I had lying around. :rofl:

And thanks. :)

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

Ah, but then like you said I'll just be tempted to fill it with something else....

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It's a very common affliction around here, believe me. It's taken me several decades to finally be able to ignore an empty tank. :D (Your mother knows you very well.)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

It's a very common affliction around here, believe me. It's taken me several decades to finally be able to ignore an empty tank. :D (Your mother knows you very well.)

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After 20+ years, absolutely. She's both lived through and thwarted many a "scheme" I've concocted. :rofl:

I like to think I've matured in that time though. I know first-hand what it's like to be overwhelmed with animals and go through a reduction phase. And even then I'm still learning. Remember that stint where I kept obsessing over "saving" snakes from Craigslist and had to be repeatedly talked out of it? Always growing, always learning.