Female aggressively feed but won't eat

Hey everyone just had a quick question about a female that I have right now. She laid a clutch 7/1 this year and went back on to food within a week. Took two larger rats. However the last three meals now she has absolutely pounded the rat but then proceeded to drop it and not eat it. I can tell that's she's hungry from her feeding response and body language, she even tagged me today while spot cleaning. She is completely healthy no signs of any illness. I've only seen this before when breeding and snakes were gravid so was thinking maybe she's egg bound. I couldn't feel anything in he after she laid. Im going to have her x-rayed by my friend that is a vet tech this week. (It won't cost anything so I figured I'd just make sure she's empty) Anyway was just looking for any other thoughts or opinions because this is really odd behavior for her.

Thanks,
Sean

I tend to agree with having a scan done to see what's going on internally. I have 2 adult rat snakes that never bred yet lay infertile eggs every year, & used to do 2nd clutches as well. Now there's only one that does a 2nd clutch- I found out this year when she appeared to be hungry but refused food twice- not like her at all. I gave her a nest box again with damp moss, & finally she laid her 2nd clutch (of duds) only yesterday. Actually, I'd be inclined to do the same thing with your snake for a while, rather than stressing her with a vet visit when she needs to be completely relaxed to expel eggs, if that's what's going on. You sure don't want her to become egg-bound- and if you give her a place to lay right now, I bet she'll demonstrate her "answer" by using it. ;)

Her going off feed soon after laying seems a bit odd for sure. Since you said you didn't feel anything I don't think she would be egg bound. It doesn't hurt to check her though (especially if its free :rofl:). How much did she weigh before and after laying? How much does she weigh after those two rats? How many eggs did she drop?

Again, 2 months (roughly) after laying her clutch is the right timing for a snake to be doing a second clutch- did you offer a nest box, as I suggested above???

That's what I'd do, or she may BECOME egg-bound, with nowhere to lay. My rat snake is back to eating ravenously now- happy to be rid of her 2nd clutch.

Initially, mine did the same thing as yours- pounded food after laying the first clutch, then went off feed after a couple meals to tide her over while she worked on the second clutch. Quite the normal process, for those snakes who do second clutches- not all snakes do that, & I sure wish mine would quit, lol.

That's what I was thinking that it was kind of weird. She went on food and now it's pounding and coiling the rats but just dropping them after. And three in a row. She weighed 1850 grams after 5 healthy eggs and after the two rats and a bowel movement she's around the same 1865 g. Think I'm gonna give her one more shot with a smaller rat and see if she takes it and eats it.

I didn't offer egg box yet she's on the same substrate she laid in. Fresh substrate of course. Was gonna give her a soak cause she made a real mess of her last bathroom break. Maybe some warm water will loosen anything up if there is anything in there. I should mention she's a bp so should only be one clutch.

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Originally Posted by sp0420

That's what I was thinking that it was kind of weird. She went on food and now it's pounding and coiling the rats but just dropping them after. And three in a row. She weighed 1850 grams after 5 healthy eggs and after the two rats and a bowel movement she's around the same 1865 g. Think I'm gonna give her one more shot with a smaller rat and see if she takes it and eats it.

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Your snake would probably love to eat but she knows intuitively that she needs to expel something first. I wasn't aware that it's so improbable for BPs to do a 2nd clutch. I guess you should take your friend up on the scan, so you know for sure. It's frustrating to keep trying to feed a snake that should be eating & they just won't. And she's not showing any other unusual behaviors?

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Originally Posted by sp0420

That's what I was thinking that it was kind of weird. She went on food and now it's pounding and coiling the rats but just dropping them after. And three in a row. She weighed 1850 grams after 5 healthy eggs and after the two rats and a bowl movement she's around the same 1865 g. Think I'm gonna give her one more shot with a smaller rat and see if she takes it and eats it.

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Does she seem restless at all? If she is I would think she could possibly be egg bound. After the two rats did she have a bowel movement? Does she normally drop 5 eggs a season? That would also be a good indicator to see if she is egg bound since on average they lay about the same amount per year, give or take

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Originally Posted by sp0420

Think I'm gonna give her one more shot with a smaller rat and see if she takes it and eats it.

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Are you offering live or frozen?

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Originally Posted by sp0420

I didn't offer egg box yet she's on the same substrate she laid in. Fresh substrate of course. Was gonna give her a soak cause she made a real mess of her last bathroom break. Maybe some warm water will loosen anything up if there is anything in there. I should mention she's a bp so should only be one clutch.

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I'm aware that you're talking about a BP- but most rat snakes don't do second clutches either. I don't breed BPs, but I don't know why that would preclude the possibility? Anyway, I offered my opinion because what you're describing is exactly what I see with my rat snakes. And btw, my 2 FL rat snakes have never bred at all- so in theory, they shouldn't be laying ANY clutches :rofl: -but they've been doing so yearly since they became adults. And I've bred plenty of snakes in the past (just not BPs) & they don't always "follow the manuals", lol. Good luck. ;) I hope your snake isn't egg-bound, & it sure couldn't hurt to offer a nest box, that was my thought- just on the chance.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I'm aware that you're talking about a BP- but most rat snakes don't do second clutches either. I don't breed BPs, but I don't know why that would preclude the possibility? Anyway, I offered my opinion because what you're describing is exactly what I see with my rat snakes. And btw, my 2 FL rat snakes have never bred at all- so in theory, they shouldn't be laying ANY clutches :rofl: -but they've been doing so yearly since they became adults. And I've bred plenty of snakes in the past (just not BPs) & they don't always "follow the manuals", lol. Good luck. ;) I hope your snake isn't egg-bound, & it sure couldn't hurt to offer a nest box, that was my thought- just on the chance.

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I'm not discounting the idea it's not bad and I am definitely not opposed to it. I guess I'm just trying to decide what the best course of action is without trying too many things at once. For all I know she's just being weird and I'm over thinking it. Just when I seen how many times she took food and dropped it it reminded me of girls that are gravid. Thanks for the help, that's why I posted here in hopes of bouncing ideas back and forth and to get others opinions. What would you suggest to use in a nest box just some damp moss? Also had no idea about rat snakes sorry. I don't know why but I just assumed they had multiple clutches.

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Originally Posted by Snow Balls

Does she seem restless at all? If she is I would think she could possibly be egg bound. After the two rats did she have a bowel movement? Does she normally drop 5 eggs a season? That would also be a good indicator to see if she is egg bound since on average they lay about the same amount per year, give or take

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Did have a large bowel movement between the two rats and the ones she didn't eat. It's hard to tell if she's restless at the moment she didn't seem to be at first but I can tell she wants to eat when I open her tub lately she immediately is up and at looking for food. Feeding f/t and am not 100% on last clutch size. Bought her grown around two years ago. Last year didn't breed her, this is her first year breeding for me.

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Originally Posted by sp0420

I'm not discounting the idea it's not bad and I am definitely not opposed to it. I guess I'm just trying to decide what the best course of action is without trying too many things at once. For all I know she's just being weird and I'm over thinking it. Just when I seen how many times she took food and dropped it it reminded me of girls that are gravid. Thanks for the help, that's why I posted here in hopes of bouncing ideas back and forth and to get others opinions. What would you suggest to use in a nest box just some damp moss? Also had no idea about rat snakes sorry. I don't know why but I just assumed they had multiple clutches.

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That's the spirit in which I offered suggestions- just bouncing ideas. For sure listen to those who breed BPs. If your snake is just "being weird" I sure wish she'd say so, & clear this up. ;)

Nest box: I'd use whatever your snake laid her eggs in the time before- I'm assuming you provided a nest box of some kind? For my rat snakes, I provide a large tub (opaque) with very damp moss in it, & privacy around that (either inside or outside their tank). So they aren't able to easily see me walking by- like a towel over that end of their tank, or pieces of cardboard to block their view- whatever is easiest. Their tanks are already in a quiet bedroom, btw. Colubrids are variable as far as doing second clutches. My house seems to be under a "fertility cloud" as far as my snakes are concerned- in the past, I've had a rosy boa reproduce (they have "live" neonates, not eggs) by parthenogenesis too..."lucky me". :rolleyes: That's why I suggested keeping an open mind- strange things happen sometimes.

If your snake isn't doing a second clutch but actually has one or more retained eggs, bear in mind that duds are often smaller & softer than good eggs- that makes them much harder for a tired female to push them out, & harder for you to notice them by palpation. So a scan is truly a good idea at this point, so you know for sure. And if she did retain eggs, the intervention is usually more successful sooner rather than later. I hope you get her figured out.

If she went to the bathroom then I think its safe to say she is empty and just being weird. Maybe someone with more experience in egg bound ball pythons than I do can correct me on this but I'm fairly certain that would mean she isn't egg bound

Also if you have access to smaller live rodents I would try to feed her a small rat pup. Maybe that will jump start her feeding again. I also have one female whos 1300g (never been bred) who also has started to coil her prey and just leave it. Now she just flat out refuses. They're odd animals, hopefully the ultrasound will help ease your mind!

I know that it has been a minute but I've been super busy with the animals work and narbc the other week. Just wanted to thank everyone who gave feedback when I needed it and give an update. She is definitely empty she's pounding small rats but still wants to drop and refuse anything medium or bigger. No idea why she's eating so weird lately but at least she's eating. Sometimes the snakes drive me nuts lol. Keep your fingers crossed that she starts taking bigger prey before she drains all my smalls. Thanks everyone who to the time to reply and try and help.

Sean