Do not purchase from this person!

https://youtu.be/WtqBYhepHu0

[emoji95][emoji95][emoji95][emoji95][emoji95][emoji95][emoji95][emoji95][emoji95][emoji95][emoji95][emoji95][emoji95][emoji95][emoji95][emoji95]
BUYERS BEWARE!!!! I HAVE ALL PROOF IN MESSAGES IF ANYONE WANTS/NEEDS TO SEE THEM!!

I bought this gorgeous leopard. This guy sent me this snake with SCALE ROT, A RESPIRATORY INFECTION AND 500g lighter than he advertised! So in less than an hour of getting her home and looking her over, we start seeing the bubbles. We panicked! We moved her out of our quarantine room and completely away from any of our other snakes. I emailed him through MM and agreed to take her back and issue a full refund. He asked me to set her up to help the RI and hold off on shipping her back until Tuesday (Aug 31st) when he could receive her. I risked my own collection by keeping her longer than necessary. He’s been soaking her and using vics to keep her symptoms at bay…

He received her today and is ignoring my calls/emails/texts and then I see this posted on her listing…still no refund [emoji2362]

His name is Stanley Ordonez and his MM store is SOS Amador

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by obsesssedsnakemom

... He’s been soaking her and using vics to keep her symptoms at bay…

---

FYI, by "vics" I assume you meant "Vick's Vapo-Rub", which should NEVER be used for snakes- it's toxic to them. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

FYI, by "vics" I assume you meant "Vick's Vapo-Rub", which should NEVER be used for snakes- it's toxic to them. :(

---

Yes that’s exactly what I mean. He had asked me to put some in her tub with her while I had her and I told him I did but there was no way I was putting that in there with her.

The picture of what he put on the listing isn't showing. What was it?

He said ouch when she bit him. That tells me all I needed to know about him but then he says she's going into shed. Ummm.... No! You missed the shed and that's stuck. I wouldn't buy a anything from that guy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KMG

He said ouch when she bit him. That tells me all I needed to know about him but then he says she's going into shed. Ummm.... No! You missed the shed and that's stuck. I wouldn't buy a anything from that guy.

---

You should see the excuse he tried on another person who gave him a bad review on MM. Now I know that BP’s can be picky but he tried saying that it’s totally normal for them to go off feed for months at at a time! I hope he doesn’t get the chance to screw over anyone else!

I would never trust a breeder who has an animal returned for scale rot and a URI going back and immediately listing her for sale again. Wow. Pretty much just opened the box from you, brought her outside, filmed and relisted her. No monitoring or precaution whatsoever. When I worked at a big box pet store... even if we KNEW it was buyer's remorse and not an actually sick animal? It was still put through a required quarantine when it was returned. The fact that you had legit health concerns about this animal....This is just terrible husbandry and business on this guy's part.

Per the MM ad: "Laid 6-2-21, 4 fertile eggs 5 slugs. 3,100 g is current weight, back of feed. Video taken Sept. 1, 2021. Big and healthy, has placed her pre lay weight back on. Great girth for laying. No issues. Video on YouTube- SOS Amador Leopard Female"
Was she advertised originally at the 3,100? Or is that updated too?
She's pissed and spicy in that video. She does have a good tongue flick, but interesting that he's bringing that up because that's to deflect the idea of her having an RI. "Going into shed" and then picking at the skin and saying she's starting to shed there had me rolling my eyes.

Adding on here.... his store policy has this:
" Paypal fees will be added to the total."
That is also a huge red flag because that is against paypal policy as well. You're supposed to be charging accordingly and not adding paypal fee payments like an additional tax. =/
You are required to handle your own fees. not the buyer.

Totally adding him to my block list

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Armiyana

I would never trust a breeder who has an animal returned for scale rot and a URI going back and immediately listing her for sale again. Wow. Pretty much just opened the box from you, brought her outside, filmed and relisted her. No monitoring or precaution whatsoever. When I worked at a big box pet store... even if we KNEW it was buyer's remorse and not an actually sick animal? It was still put through a required quarantine when it was returned. The fact that you had legit health concerns about this animal....This is just terrible husbandry and business on this guy's part.

Per the MM ad: "Laid 6-2-21, 4 fertile eggs 5 slugs. 3,100 g is current weight, back of feed. Video taken Sept. 1, 2021. Big and healthy, has placed her pre lay weight back on. Great girth for laying. No issues. Video on YouTube- SOS Amador Leopard Female"
Was she advertised originally at the 3,100? Or is that updated too?
She's pissed and spicy in that video. She does have a good tongue flick, but interesting that he's bringing that up because that's to deflect the idea of her having an RI. "Going into shed" and then picking at the skin and saying she's starting to shed there had me rolling my eyes.

---

It’s not updated at all. She weighed less than 2,600g when she got to me. I really hope PayPal can get my refund. I have proof of everything in messages and pics of the scale rot.

Heck if you do have proof that he added the paypal fees on top of her purchase price, bring that up too. It at least will be a ding on his paypal record.
Also....as a side note, be wary of anyone requesting that you pay as Friends and Family because they are trying to avoid the business fess and that can be a ding on you as well. And you don't get buyer protections.

I hope they do decide in your favor on that especially if he said he would refund in private message/email. Paypal can be very frustrating to deal with in matters like this. If you have proof that this is the same email on his paypal account saying he'll refund you, that should help it go smoother.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Armiyana

Heck if you do have proof that he added the paypal fees on top of her purchase price, bring that up too. It at least will be a ding on his paypal record.
Also....as a side note, be wary of anyone requesting that you pay as Friends and Family because they are trying to avoid the business fess and that can be a ding on you as well. And you don't get buyer protections.

I hope they do decide in your favor on that especially if he said he would refund in private message/email. Paypal can be very frustrating to deal with in matters like this. If you have proof that this is the same email on his paypal account saying he'll refund you, that should help it go smoother.

---

I’ve definitely got a bunch of proof. I’ve never had to deal with a refund through PayPal. I’m glad I used goods and services since it seems like I’m more likely to get my refund. All the emails and names match up on everything as well. This guy has a lot of great reviews on MM. Its the first time I’ve ever said yes to anyone with a negative review…lesson learned I guess

UPDATE- WE GOT THE REFUND [emoji1430] Now I just hope he took that snake to the vet before listing her again even though I see she’s already back up!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by obsesssedsnakemom

UPDATE- WE GOT THE REFUND [emoji1430] Now I just hope he took that snake to the vet before listing her again even though I see she’s already back up!

---

Glad you got the refund. Paypal is usually pretty good about that but I've never had to deal with a live animal issue through them so I wasn't sure how tough it would be.

I'm absolutely sure he didn't because he left a snarky reply on your feedback. He could have left a much better reply saying how maybe the stress from shipping caused the snake to react in ways that seemed like an URI but her health has been verified with our local vet as healthy" or you know... 100 other ways of doing the right thing and being responsible.

Instead he slammed you in the reply and handwaved the scale rot concern chalking it all up to buyers remorse. On top of putting her back up for sale without quarantining her to verify your claims first.

While I admit, the feedback you gave was a bit heated (not saying I am any less pissed on what happened). He didn't do anything to make himself seem like a better person.

Like... I have seen snakes that after shipping will bubble a bit because they drank a little too much water too quickly.... But in combination with the scales and the weight? That's fair too suspicious to take chances.

Did he actually refund you or did PayPal have to do it for you in the end?

I still think this is a fair warning and have him blocked so I don't even have a chance to consider something of his.

No, PayPal had to force it. On his MM profile it states a 25% deduction for any refunds and I wouldn’t have had any objections to that because it’s plainly stated there but he didn’t want to refund me anything at all! I truly believe that if it wasn’t for PayPal, I wouldn’t have gotten my money back. I got an email from the MM team stating that they also decided in my favor but he didn’t seem to agree with them either. No further action will be taken against him as far as his MM store but hopefully my review helps so it doesn’t happen to other people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by obsesssedsnakemom

No, PayPal had to force it. On his MM profile it states a 25% deduction for any refunds and I wouldn’t have had any objections to that because it’s plainly stated there but he didn’t want to refund me anything at all! I truly believe that if it wasn’t for PayPal, I wouldn’t have gotten my money back. I got an email from the MM team stating that they also decided in my favor but he didn’t seem to agree with them either. No further action will be taken against him as far as his MM store but hopefully my review helps so it doesn’t happen to other people.

---

I wouldn't give him 25%. Sure if I just changed my mind but not when the animal is not what it is said to be arriving happy and healthy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by obsesssedsnakemom

No, PayPal had to force it. On his MM profile it states a 25% deduction for any refunds and I wouldn’t have had any objections to that because it’s plainly stated there but he didn’t want to refund me anything at all! I truly believe that if it wasn’t for PayPal, I wouldn’t have gotten my money back. I got an email from the MM team stating that they also decided in my favor but he didn’t seem to agree with them either. No further action will be taken against him as far as his MM store but hopefully my review helps so it doesn’t happen to other people.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KMG

I wouldn't give him 25%. Sure if I just changed my mind but not when the animal is not what it is said to be arriving happy and healthy.

---

I agree 100%- he wouldn't be keeping a penny from me either, not after what he pulled on you. And just because someone argues up a storm, doesn't mean they're right or have a leg to stand on...that's just how some people are, they'll always blame others & it's never anything they did wrong. Because all they care about is their own profits, & they've learned that by putting up a fight, they'll win a few because some will just give up & don't pursue what they're owed.

Weird, morph market agreed with you? Because your review is deleted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Armiyana

Weird, morph market agreed with you? Because your review is deleted.

---

That’s very weird! I’m not sure why they would remove my review? I just sent an email to MM questioning it because it doesn’t seem right that they wouldn’t want an honest review up whether the seller agrees with me or not. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e7f769762f.jpg

Hi,

I don't know if you're on Facebook but there are two Inquiry/Feedback groups that I read regularly where you can share this info. "FBI - Feedback and Inquiry" is one of them, and the other is "Herp Industry FBI: The Good, The Bad, The Truth". Both require proof (e.g. screen shots) to create a post so people can't make unfounded accusations.

Also if MM really did delete your negative feedback from the seller then that also should be stated, as a lot of buyers rely on the feedback when deciding to make a purchase.

You can also post a review on FaunaClassifieds.com but only as a response/reply to an ad that this seller creates, not as its own original post, and he hasn't posted an ad there in six years.

At least you got a refund. So sorry this happened though!

bcr229

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

Hi,

I don't know if you're on Facebook but there are two Inquiry/Feedback groups that I read regularly where you can share this info. "FBI - Feedback and Inquiry" is one of them, and the other is "Herp Industry FBI: The Good, The Bad, The Truth". Both require proof (e.g. screen shots) to create a post so people can't make unfounded accusations.

Also if MM really did delete your negative feedback from the seller then that also should be stated, as a lot of buyers rely on the feedback when deciding to make a purchase.

You can also post a review on FaunaClassifieds.com but only as a response/reply to an ad that this seller creates, not as its own original post, and he hasn't posted an ad there in six years.

At least you got a refund. So sorry this happened though!

bcr229

---

They haven’t responded to my email yet but I’m thinking it was because I was a bit heated in my negative review…I am in one of those pages and I did post it there. Just requested to join the other page as well. Thank you so much!

All credible ratings/review forums need to hear both sides of a matter.

MorphMarket thoroughly reviewed both sides of this case based on all the evidence that was provided by both the buyer and the seller. We did this as we do with all disputes according to our published moderation policy. We found in the buyer's favor ONLY because the seller had already promised, in writing, to issue a full refund upon receiving the animal back and did not put any conditions on that promise. We did not find in the buyer's favor because we thought the seller was at fault or a bad guy.

The seller provided three very clear videos, the first of which they posted on YouTube, the same one the OP showed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtqBYhepHu0

This video was taken as soon as they received the animal back and shows zero signs of RI distress. Upon our request for more information, including the true weight of the animal and a look at its belly, the seller sent two more new video files with the day's date mentioned in them. They weren't "old" videos. One shows the animal being carefully weighed in a quality analog scale in a way that no one could accuse them of any "funny business." The weight showed 3500g. The second showed a perfectly clean and healthy belly from nose tip to tail. It is clearly the same animal as the buyer had received. In neither of those other two videos did the snake display any hints of RI symptoms, nor did it show any signs of being distressed in any way. The seller's facilities, as seen in the videos, are clean, orderly, and well maintained.

The buyer immediately assumed the seller was a bad guy deliberately selling sick and underweight animals. The seller immediately assumed the buyer was lying about the animal's condition when he received it back and it showed no signs of illness. We chose to view this dispute from both sides and give both parties the benefit of the doubt. The buyer truly believed they received a sick animal. They did send pictures of a red and irritated looking belly. They did not send any images or videos showing RI symptoms or weight. We don't believe the buyer sent the animal back due to "buyer's remorse". But we also don't believe the seller knowingly sent out a sick animal and lied about its weight.

The buyer's negative review was removed because it accused the seller of deliberately acting negligently and lying about their animals. The seller proved to our satisfaction that this was not true in any way.

These cases are rarely simple and clear-cut. In this case, we don't believe either party acted out of bad faith, but each believed sincerely that the other did. We did explain that when we told the buyer of our ruling, but they chose not to share that portion of the email they quoted.

It's quite probable that people will still have questions about this, and opinions to give. Unfortunately, there are other cases on our docket and much work to be done helping other people. This one has been settled and we can't devote any more time to it. We wish nothing but the best to the buyer and the seller.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by morphmarket

All credible ratings/review forums need to hear both sides of a matter.

MorphMarket thoroughly reviewed both sides of this case based on all the evidence that was provided by both the buyer and the seller. We did this as we do with all disputes according to our published moderation policy. We found in the buyer's favor ONLY because the seller had already promised, in writing, to issue a full refund upon receiving the animal back and did not put any conditions on that promise. We did not find in the buyer's favor because we thought the seller was at fault or a bad guy.

The seller provided three very clear videos, the first of which they posted on YouTube, the same one the OP showed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtqBYhepHu0

This video was taken as soon as they received the animal back and shows zero signs of RI distress. Upon our request for more information, including the true weight of the animal and a look at its belly, the seller sent two more new video files with the day's date mentioned in them. They weren't "old" videos. One shows the animal being carefully weighed in a quality analog scale in a way that no one could accuse them of any "funny business." The weight showed 3500g. The second showed a perfectly clean and healthy belly from nose tip to tail. It is clearly the same animal as the buyer had received. In neither of those other two videos did the snake display any hints of RI symptoms, nor did it show any signs of being distressed in any way. The seller's facilities, as seen in the videos, are clean, orderly, and well maintained.

The buyer immediately assumed the seller was a bad guy deliberately selling sick and underweight animals. The seller immediately assumed the buyer was lying about the animal's condition when he received it back and it showed no signs of illness. We chose to view this dispute from both sides and give both parties the benefit of the doubt. The buyer truly believed they received a sick animal. They did send pictures of a red and irritated looking belly. They did not send any images or videos showing RI symptoms or weight. We don't believe the buyer sent the animal back due to "buyer's remorse". But we also don't believe the seller knowingly sent out a sick animal and lied about its weight.

The buyer's negative review was removed because it accused the seller of deliberately acting negligently and lying about their animals. The seller proved to our satisfaction that this was not true in any way.

These cases are rarely simple and clear-cut. In this case, we don't believe either party acted out of bad faith, but each believed sincerely that the other did. We did explain that when we told the buyer of our ruling, but they chose not to share that portion of the email they quoted.

It's quite probable that people will still have questions about this, and opinions to give. Unfortunately, there are other cases on our docket and much work to be done helping other people. This one has been settled and we can't devote any more time to it. We wish nothing but the best to the buyer and the seller.

---

I really appreciate this explanation. As happy as we are to hear that you received videos from him that showed she’s as healthy as he says, we’ve learned our lesson to also record as much. We’ve recently read things about snakes “bubbling” for various reasons but we panicked immediately in fear for our collection. We’ve never had an issues purchasing through MM and after this incident, I’m confident that if there is ever any other issues, it will be taken care of appropriately. Thank you for taking the time to address the issue. Our only regret is that we weren’t able to keep that beautiful leopard.

And I appreciate both the even-handed explanation from MM and especially your response, obsessedsnakemom, despite your obvious disappointment after the stressful outcome of this incident. We all learn from our mistakes, life isn't perfect, & keeping the communications on an adult level here (rather than emotional) really helps all concerned. :gj: