Ball Python Not Sleeping, Trying to Escape

My ball python is constantly trying to escape. It's worsened quite a bit in the last few days. He's barely sleeping anymore and he's been shoving his nose against the edge of the enclosure so hard it looks like he's going to break himself. He is in an appropriately sized plastic container with 2 hides and some fake leaves. Warm side is 90 and I used paper towel as a substrate. Humidity might be a bit high around 65-70. When I'm cleaning his enclosure I put him in a smaller bin from when he was younger and he totally stops going crazy. Is he stressed? The small one is too small but idk. He went on a hunger strike for about five months a while ago and I was encouraged to just feed him more to counteract. The food stops him for about a day but then he goes back to it. Please help I don't know what else to do!

How old is he? What does he weigh? What are you feeding him & how often? (type of rodent & size or weights if known)

Have you double-checked his enclosure temperatures? How? What's the cool side at?

What size is his enclosure? (L x W x H)

Is the UTH on a tstat?

Is the temp of the UTH being checked with a IR temp gun?

What is the ambient temps of the room/cage.....or both if you know them?

How snug are the hides for the snake?

I think he's like 1300-1500g. Right now he's getting a small rat once a week ish. I use a temp gun to check the enclosure temps pretty regularly. The cool side is just room temperature so like 70. I have a herpstat for my UTH. I'd say the hides are pretty snug but there is a little empty space vertically. 35in/19in/7in https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xY2...ew?usp=sharing

When did you move to the current tub?

Like well over a year ago.

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Originally Posted by Bob212

Like well over a year ago.

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But this is a recent change in behavior?

Has anything changed in the tub? Different hides, substrate, etc?

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Originally Posted by Bob212

I think he's like 1300-1500g. Right now he's getting a small rat once a week ish. I use a temp gun to check the enclosure temps pretty regularly. The cool side is just room temperature so like 70. I have a herpstat for my UTH. I'd say the hides are pretty snug but there is a little empty space vertically. 35in/19in/7in https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xY2...ew?usp=sharing

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70 is too low for the cool side, the minimum temperature anywhere in a BP enclosure should be 75F. You may want to add a (thermostat controlled) heater to the room or try a method of adding a CHE to the tub.
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Also are you measuring the humidity with a digital hygrometer or one of these?

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...AC_SL1500_.jpg

Analog hygrometers (as shown above) can be very inaccurate. My BP stresses out and tries to escape if the humidity is over 85% (this happens if fresh cypress mulch is added without drying it a bit first) when he’s not shedding so humidity issues are also a possibility.

I tried using a digital hygrometer but it broke so I am using one like in the picture. I can't do a heater full time but he was really cold when I took him out today. Are there any other possibilities because installing those heat lamps is a lot for just 5 degrees.

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Originally Posted by Bob212

I tried using a digital hygrometer but it broke so I am using one like in the picture. I can't do a heater full time but he was really cold when I took him out today. Are there any other possibilities because installing those heat lamps is a lot for just 5 degrees.

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..."I can't do a heater full time but he was really cold..." What??? Your snake REQUIRES available warmth 24 hours of every day. (And to be clear, he also requires a home that allows him a "cool side" as well, for his safety...at ALL times.) You should not be keeping a snake for a pet if you cannot supply what it needs to stay healthy & alive. Snakes cannot digest their food without supplemental heat, nor even move around when it's too chilly. Likewise, if it's too hot for their needs, you can kill them.

It's absolutely ESSENTIAL for the safety & well-being of this snake that you fix the accommodations immediately, or find him a new & responsible owner who will provide for him properly- and one who can afford his care. If you cannot afford proper heating equipment AND the equipment to control it (thermostats etc) you also won't be able to afford his veterinary bills when he gets sick, which won't be far in the future at the rate you're going. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, it's not meant to be- but please re-consider your ability to properly provide for this animal: he has no choice, only you do.

I prefer, and keep, higher cool side temps too but I don’t see an issue if the snake has access to a 90 hot spot and ambient temps in the low 70s. It can still thermoregulate itself properly. I have no clue where the notion that BPs, and other snakes, can’t survive in temps below 75 comes from when they’re probably more cold tolerant than heat tolerant. I also don’t think it has anything to do with the OPs issue about the snake continuously trying to escape. Colder temps usually cause them to become more dormant and less active. I’d try offering larger meals or letting him out more often for exercise. When my snakes get really active it’s usually because they’re hungry or they want out of their cage. If I feed them or let them out for a stretch they usually stop with the pacing and pushing.

What I meant was that I can't do a full room heater constantly. He still has an adequate UTH. 75 degrees is new information to me. Every other source that I've seen has said around 70-75 which is what my cold side is. I think I've figured out what the problem is though. For some reason he really likes this half log but I took it out a while ago to give him a little more room. Within 10 minutes of putting it back in he stopped all weird behavior and fell alseep in his hide.

I'd put him back in the old enclosure until you figure out what's driving him crazy about the new one.

Do you weigh your rats I have a jewlry weighing scale and weigh all my rats to make sure they are getting appropriate size meals, if your feeding small rats and he’s surfing around after meals could just be that he is still in feeding more and is just trying to acquire more food, was he doing this when he was on hunger strike or was he chilled out, I’ve had snakes when I’ve fed the wrong size meals keep actively looking for more food hence why I weigh all my food now.


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Originally Posted by Bob212

What I meant was that I can't do a full room heater constantly. He still has an adequate UTH. 75 degrees is new information to me. Every other source that I've seen has said around 70-75 which is what my cold side is. I think I've figured out what the problem is though. For some reason he really likes this half log but I took it out a while ago to give him a little more room. Within 10 minutes of putting it back in he stopped all weird behavior and fell alseep in his hide.

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I guess he felt insecure after you messed with his "furniture". Glad you figured that out.

I don't know what happened, he was doing fine but this morning he just started acting crazy again. I fed him like 3 days ago but tonight he scared the s$!t out of me. He submerged his head under water and wouldn't bring it up. I had to pull him out. Please help I have no idea what to do, I think he's eating plenty but idk, my anxiety is going crazy right now.

Just so you know, snakes can hold their breath for quite a while- I seriously doubt you needed to "pull him out" of the water, & in doing so, you probably scared the heck out of him.

And one reason snakes seek to submerge in water is for relief from mites. Please check THOROUGHLY for mites, they can kill a snake quicker than you'd think, & your snake cannot tell you what's wrong, you have to learn to figure it out from his behavior. We're not seeing your snake at all, so our guesses are just that- guesses.

I searched him and I can't find any mites. Should I take him to the vet to get looked at?

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Originally Posted by Bob212

I searched him and I can't find any mites. Should I take him to the vet to get looked at?

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Hard to say- we aren't seeing the snake or the set-up, & btw, what size prey are you feeding him? I wonder if you might be under-feeding him- ever think of that? I've seen it happen. Do you have a scale to weigh him & his food?

If he's eating, & eating ENOUGH, & you've ruled out all the husbandry* issues? (*which most vets can't help you with- they deal with medical issues, not housing/hides/privacy/temps./humidity/& feeding) I'd say it's up to you, if the prey you're feeding checks out as adequate for his size (weight) per the chart below.

One thing I just thought of- maybe this is a female, not a male? Plenty of snakes get sexed wrong- & female BPs eat more than males- that could explain this?
Maybe a vet WOULD be a good idea, if they're qualified to double-check the gender for you?


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F98qfzDH.png

If temps and humidity are correct and the snake is eating normally, the next thing I'd consider is the fact that sometimes snakes just hate their enclosures and need a different one to feel comfortable. You said he settled down when you put an old hide back in with him. That tells you a lot.

I have snakes that act miserable and restless in glass enclosures but settle down in tubs. I have snakes that act miserable and restless in tubs but settle down in glass enclosures. I have snakes that refuse to eat if they are in an enclosure that's too large. I have snakes that try constantly to escape if they are in an enclosure that they feel is too small, or if they don't have sufficient opportunities to explore outside of the enclosure.

I'm not seeing anything in your descriptions that leads me to think that it'd be worth it to stress him further with a veterinary visit. When you say he started going crazy again, are you referring to his behavior in the water (which frankly I wouldn't worry about) or is he also showing other behaviors that indicate distress?

I think most new keepers cause much more stress than they need to. Try to relax knowing you are trying your best and we'll get you squared away. The snake is probably just being a snake and I sometimes think they try to make new keepers go crazy.... Like they know.

I doubt the snake was going to drown itself. My BRB has eaten an entire rat under water.

As for mites. If it's eating I would say that's not it. You can also see the little buggers so without seeing any little pepper like spots in the cage or water again I don't think that's it.

Now it could be you changing things in the cage. Maybe the hides are not giving a nice secure feeling. A trick I've used for years is adding moss to my hides. Especially on hides that are larger than the snakes needs. Both of my Kings are little right now with hides that would be considered huge for them. I put a large clump of moss in them and it makes it like a cave system. They can borrow into it, climb on top, go under, you name it. It just gives a much more secure feeling and it's super easy to do. Plus during a shed you can mist it and create humid hides. Even with my Ball I keep clumps of moss around the opening of one of ours hide to make it a little more closed off. I'm doing that with my Madagascar Hognose too. I also have two hanging hides that are too big for the snakes they serve. Filled them with moss and now they're just right.

But then it could be that it needs a bit more food. Maybe try feeding a bit more often or a little larger food item. I have snakes that act like they are hungry the day after I feed them. Like my bulldog you would think I starve them.

How do I add an image? I wouldn't think his hides are too small but there is some space above.

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Originally Posted by Bob212

How do I add an image? I wouldn't think his hides are too small but there is some space above.

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Too small isn't usually the issue.... It's being too big. If there is extra space you may try adding some moss like I suggested.

As for pictures it's my biggest complaint. You can upload it to your gallery and then you will have a link you can paste into the thread.

Here's a photo. I gave him a rat yesterday and he stopped for a day but then he started right back up again. I think the only major problem would be too much of an open face on the sides.https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GsS...w?usp=drivesdk. Also he went on ahunger strike that ended in march ish. Could he just want more food to make up for it?

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Originally Posted by Bob212

Here's a photo. I gave him a rat yesterday and he stopped for a day but then he started right back up again. I think the only major problem would be too much of an open face on the sides.https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GsS...w?usp=drivesdk

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Those hides don't offer much sense of security. The doorway is too big (Imagine how you'd feel living in a house with an extra large doorway that had NO door on it?) & the interior is not deep & dark enough to feel safe to a snake that needs to hide. They also look lightweight- & while you can get away with that for some snakes, it doesn't work for all- when the snake pushes up (BPs like "back pressure" to feel snug) a lightweight hide will lift up & offer no sense of security.

Instead, I would highly recommend using something like these: (They come in different sizes, so double check your snake's approximate size when he's curled up, against the sizes available- you want hides that are just slightly larger than your snake). Reptile Basics is one source of hides like this, there are others- but I personally use many of theirs. https://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes If the hide is a little too big, you can also stuff in some paper to make it cozier, while your snake "grows into it."

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...mbs/mdhide.jpg

Thank you for the help! I just ordered 2 different sizes that'll be here in 2 days. I didn't know exactly which one to get.

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Originally Posted by Bob212

Thank you for the help! I just ordered 2 different sizes that'll be here in 2 days. I didn't know exactly which one to get.

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Just measure your snake (approximately + a little "wiggle room") when he's curled up. You probably don't need 2 different sizes, but you do need 2 of the same size- & IF they're a little big too big, as I said, you can wad up a paper towel or 2, & stuff them in one corner to make them seem more snug as he grows into them in time. If you just ordered them, you have time to cancel one size or the other, just get 2 of the size slightly bigger than he is. It should help a lot. And face them sideways (toward the center) also, not facing forward where you're looking right in at him- that would be like having people looking in your window...not sure I'd feel like eating then either, lol.