Looking for advice from more experienced keepers

I have experience working with snakes so I generally know how to take care of one. However I've never worked with corn snakes until my current job. I work with an adult corn snake and she hasn't eaten since the 2nd so it's been almost a month since her last meal. Are there any tricks to get her to eat or is she going into brumation? Her temperature has been consistent throughout the summer so I don't think it's brumation. Just looking for opinions on what's going on. Her breathing sounds normal, she hides a lot but she's always done that, no scale rot or anything like that. Just loss of appetite.

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You're saying this is on the job? Big difference for any snake if this is in a pet store or something? Is she being handled?

Is the snake c/b or w/c? Temps in cage? What is her feeding history? (kind of rodents? live or f/t or f/k? most recent meals?) How long has she been there? Where from?

What about ambient light in the room? And how much A/C? (room temps???) What kind of heat is being supplied to her?

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

You're saying this is on the job? Big difference for any snake if this is in a pet store or something? Is she being handled?

Is the snake c/b or w/c? Temps in cage? What is her feeding history? (kind of rodents? live or f/t or f/k? most recent meals?) How long has she been there? Where from?

What about ambient light in the room? And how much A/C? (room temps???) What kind of heat is being supplied to her?

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She's an education animal at our nature center. Typically we handle her but since she hasn't been eating we've been leaving her alone. She's captive bred, she's an albino. She's been with us for a couple years, around 5 or so. She eats frozen thawed but she refuses to eat from tongs so we typically have to leave it in her enclosure and hope she eats. For heat we have heat lamps and a UVB 3 in 1 bulb on a timer. We keep the whole building around 75°. It's temperature controlled for our reptiles. The lights outside her enclosure go on at 9 and go off at 4 but her lights stay on until around 7.

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No idea how old she is? Something's not right with her, unless she's going into a shed? She shouldn't be trying to brumate either. What is her warmest temperature for digestion in her home, where SHE is?

Just because you provide a "heat light" doesn't mean the warmth actually reaches the floor of the enclosure where the snake is- I've seen this before in a 'nature museum' where the A/C for human comfort made it too chilly for snakes to digest. But corn snakes often prefer most of their enclosures to be mid to upper 70's, & they don't require more than one corner of their home to have extra warmth for digestion, & you don't want more than about 85*- not like a BP.

Is it possible she was handled roughly & has an injury? or she's possibly ill? A stool sample to vet is a good idea if she's not in shed & keeps refusing food, & acting oddly.

Snakes are very stoic, & btw, albinos are extraordinarily hard to tell when they're clouding up in a shed cycle- with any luck, that's all it is. (turn out the lights & use a small beam flashlight to shine across her eyes from either side- they'll look milky if she's in shed-;) )

I agree with Bogertophis that something sounds off. Corn snakes are usually garbage disposals, even if somewhat shy. I have two. Solana, my younger corn is a little shy and usually doesn't strike. I leave the F/T mouse for her and as soon as I walk away, gone. However, she doesn't miss meals unless in shed.

I would be checking temps on the ground with a temp gun. Room temp if 75F is fine for the cool side, but warm side should be 82-84F or have a heat pad (thermostat controlled) that's 82-84F.

IMPORTANT

If you work in a nature center you should incredibly careful with your own pet reptiles. If I recall, you just got a BP, correct?

You should assume every reptile at the nature center is sick. That means changing clothes, washing hands (and preferably body as well) before handling your BP or his food.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

No idea how old she is? Something's not right with her, unless she's going into a shed? She shouldn't be trying to brumate either. What is her warmest temperature for digestion in her home, where SHE is?

Just because you provide a "heat light" doesn't mean the warmth actually reaches the floor of the enclosure where the snake is- I've seen this before in a 'nature museum' where the A/C for human comfort made it too chilly for snakes to digest. But corn snakes often prefer most of their enclosures to be mid to upper 70's, & they don't require more than one corner of their home to have extra warmth for digestion, & you don't want more than about 85*- not like a BP.

Is it possible she was handled roughly & has an injury? or she's possibly ill? A stool sample to vet is a good idea if she's not in shed & keeps refusing food, & acting oddly.

Snakes are very stoic, & btw, albinos are extraordinarily hard to tell when they're clouding up in a shed cycle- with any luck, that's all it is. (turn out the lights & use a small beam flashlight to shine across her eyes from either side- they'll look milky if she's in shed-;) )

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

No idea how old she is? Something's not right with her, unless she's going into a shed? She shouldn't be trying to brumate either. What is her warmest temperature for digestion in her home, where SHE is?

Just because you provide a "heat light" doesn't mean the warmth actually reaches the floor of the enclosure where the snake is- I've seen this before in a 'nature museum' where the A/C for human comfort made it too chilly for snakes to digest. But corn snakes often prefer most of their enclosures to be mid to upper 70's, & they don't require more than one corner of their home to have extra warmth for digestion, & you don't want more than about 85*- not like a BP.

Is it possible she was handled roughly & has an injury? or she's possibly ill? A stool sample to vet is a good idea if she's not in shed & keeps refusing food, & acting oddly.

Snakes are very stoic, & btw, albinos are extraordinarily hard to tell when they're clouding up in a shed cycle- with any luck, that's all it is. (turn out the lights & use a small beam flashlight to shine across her eyes from either side- they'll look milky if she's in shed-;) )

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Sorry it took me a bit to reply I was looking through our records. Unfortunately due to how we got her, we don't know her age. Just know she's an adult and older than 5. Most of her enclosure is typically in the high 70's. Her hot spot has been hovering around 85. I don't believe she was handled roughly. We only allow staff to handle the animals. I'm not sure if she's in shed but last month around this time her shed was ending so shedding is possible but the 2 weeks before that she also didn't eat.

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Originally Posted by dakski

I agree with Bogertophis that something sounds off. Corn snakes are usually garbage disposals, even if somewhat shy. I have two. Solana, my younger corn is a little shy and usually doesn't strike. I leave the F/T mouse for her and as soon as I walk away, gone. However, she doesn't miss meals unless in shed.

I would be checking temps on the ground with a temp gun. Room temp if 75F is fine for the cool side, but warm side should be 82-84F or have a heat pad (thermostat controlled) that's 82-84F.

IMPORTANT

If you work in a nature center you should incredibly careful with your own pet reptiles. If I recall, you just got a BP, correct?

You should assume every reptile at the nature center is sick. That means changing clothes, washing hands (and preferably body as well) before handling your BP or his food.

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Makes sense. And I've been very conscious of biosecurity. I definitely don't want my animal getting sick. My boyfriend laughs at the precautions I take lol

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I'd get some accurate temps to make sure that isn't the problem. Perhaps a bulb is starting to go out and producing less heat than usual, or not penetrating as well because of the particular wavelengths that tend to stop long before the bulb breaks completely. If temps are still good, it's probably worth getting an exam.

I would assume the answer is no, but just to be sure, is there any way she has had exposure to a male and could be gravid? The timing for her to fast because she is about to lay seems a lot more on track than brumation, though it's pushing being too late in the year for that.

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

I'd get some accurate temps to make sure that isn't the problem. Perhaps a bulb is starting to go out and producing less heat than usual, or not penetrating as well because of the particular wavelengths that tend to stop long before the bulb breaks completely. If temps are still good, it's probably worth getting an exam.

I would assume the answer is no, but just to be sure, is there any way she has had exposure to a male and could be gravid? The timing for her to fast because she is about to lay seems a lot more on track than brumation, though it's pushing being too late in the year for that.

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The temperatures have been consistent around 85 for months. She's never been with a male while in our care so for 5 years, no. According to one of the senior staff, she typically does this around this time of year but I just can't figure out why she would. Like you said it seems to early for brumation. Either way we'll be monitoring her weight and if she losses too much, we'll take her or maybe a stool sample to the vets.

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And we're not actually seeing this snake- she might simply be over-fed? (unintentionally), OR getting old, or other health issue for which a vet check is in order.

My corn snakes are (& always have been) easy to feed. The exception would be when they get "up in years", their metabolism slows down- so knowing the age would really help here. How often does she shed? That too is a clue to age. The oldest snake I ever had shed every year & a half, just for comparison, but I've had snakes in their mid-20's that still shed about every 6 months. I have a hunch this snake is being over-fed for her age, but you need to make sure (rule out illness & being in shed).

Just because she shed a month ago doesn't mean she's NOT in shed now: FYI, injuries and some illnesses also make a snake shed more frequently- that's the way their body attempts to heal.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

And we're not actually seeing this snake- she might simply be over-fed? (unintentionally), OR getting old, or other health issue for which a vet check is in order.

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Very true. We only feed her once a week. She maybe getting old. She's one of our older animals.

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Originally Posted by Neko_snake

Very true. We only feed her once a week. She maybe getting old. She's one of our older animals.

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BINGO! An adult corn snake should be fed about every 10 days (to 14 days). Too much food for a mature corn snake!

How long is she? (approximately) And what size rodents (& what kind) are you feeding her? She'd do fine on average sized adult mice only and only ONE per meal- NOT jumbo mice, ever. OK? (large aka jumbo mice are way too fatty- they're old breeders, not good for most snakes) No wonder she's not eating...

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

BINGO! An adult corn snake should be fed about every 10 days (to 14 days). Too much food for a mature corn snake!

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This is exactly why I asked on here. So I probably should suggest a different feeding schedule for her. Maybe every 2 weeks. That makes me feel better since then with the 3 weeks off food she's technically only missed one meal. While I'm asking, what is the typical prey size for a corn snake? We fed her an adult mouse and I'm just making sure that's the correct size.

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It's good that she "missed a meal"- in fact, if she missed several it would still be fine. She's apparently been overfed for quite some time- corn & other rat snakes are generally enthusiastic eaters, but you're not doing them any favors with excessive food- they can die from "fatty liver disease".

The interval between meals should be gradually lengthened* from once a week as hatchlings. (*starting when they're about 4-6 mos. old, and then young adults should be fed about every 10 days- and older snakes, every 2 weeks, or so (when really elderly, every 3 weeks).

I wouldn't offer her any food for at least 2 weeks now, or until she looks & acts hungry, whichever takes longer. It would help if you can post a picture of her- not coiled up- so I can get a sense of her body weight (proportions). Her approx. length would help too. If she's not hungry for a while, that's good, & that's normal. She doesn't need the food- & she's been trying to tell you for a while, it sounds like. Re-read post #12. Make sure your co-workers understand this too- I know it's hard to be the new employee who has to let others know they've been on the wrong path, but the behavior of this snake proves it. I'd even feed her small adult mice for a while too, but never (!) large/"jumbo" mice.

IF her appetite doesn't resume in a couple weeks, or there's any other symptoms of illness, let us know? But hopefully this is what will "fix" her. ;) You shouldn't need "tricks to get her to eat"- just wait until she's actually hungry & needs food, & don't over-do it. :snake:

And yes, it would be good if she was not fed more often than every 2 weeks for a while- & like I said, only then IF she acts hungry (chasing motion). Don't "talk her into eating" if she isn't actually hungry. She could probably stand to lose a little weight. Corn snakes are supposed to be fairly slender, not built like a BP. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

It's good that she "missed a meal"- in fact, if she missed several it would still be fine. She's apparently been overfed for quite some time- corn & other rat snakes are generally enthusiastic eaters, but you're not doing them any favors with excessive food- they can die from "fatty liver disease".

The interval between meals should be gradually lengthened* from once a week as hatchlings. (*starting when they're about 4-6 mos. old, and then young adults should be fed about every 10 days- and older snakes, every 2 weeks, or so (when really elderly, every 3 weeks).

I wouldn't offer her any food for at least 2 weeks now, or until she looks & acts hungry, whichever takes longer. It would help if you can post a picture of her- not coiled up- so I can get a sense of her body weight (proportions). Her approx. length would help too. If she's not hungry for a while, that's good, & that's normal. She doesn't need the food- & she's been trying to tell you for a while, it sounds like. Re-read post #12. Make sure your co-workers understand this too- I know it's hard to be the new employee who has to let others know they've been on the wrong path, but the behavior of this snake proves it. I'd even feed her small adult mice for a while too, but never (!) large/"jumbo" mice.

IF her appetite doesn't resume in a couple weeks, or there's any other symptoms of illness, let us know? But hopefully this is what will "fix" her. ;) You shouldn't need "tricks to get her to eat"- just wait until she's actually hungry & needs food, & don't over-do it. :snake:

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I'll definitely try to suggest and hopefully they will understand. We do feed her one adult mouse so at least we have that proportion right. I will definitely be keeping in touch. I love this form so much. You guys are a great wealth of knowledge. I like that you gave me a game plan in how to actually fix our care. The other staff probably don't even have an idea that we've overfed her and I haven't taken care of a corn snake so I didn't know either.

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I've been keeping & also breeding some corn snakes for literally decades. (I currently have 5 corns, & 11 other rat snakes too.) I wonder where they got the idea to feed an adult colubrid snake every week? Maybe because they handle her for education, they've been trying to be sure she's "full" & won't bite or scare anyone- just my guess? But if so, that's misguided. I've done many programs with my snakes- even some where they meet (& are handled by) "the public" with no issues ever, & fyi, my snakes are hungry (due to be fed) when I take them. You just read that correctly, lol- I want them "empty" so they don't poo on me or anyone in public/programs. And I've never had any snake of mine bite me or anyone this way- they "change gears" quite well, they understand they're not being fed once I've picked them up. Even if they were hungrily chasing my motion thru the glass right before I took them out.

I have some very large yellow/Florida rat snakes with monstrous appetites to match their size, & one time I took 2 of them to the local library for a kid's program, & thought it might be interesting for the kids to watch them eat. So I took 2 thawed mice with me in a container, & after I handled the snakes a while, I put them each in their travel enclosure & offered them a meal, thinking surely they'd pounce- since I knew they were hungry. They actually hesitated & finally "accepted" the prey, but they were far less than eager. Then I understood- they were in "handling mode". :rofl:

You might want to have them read this thread? Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I've been keeping & also breeding some corn snakes for literally decades. (I currently have 5 corns, & 11 other rat snakes too.) I wonder where they got the idea to feed an adult colubrid snake every week? Maybe because they handle her for education, they've been trying to be sure she's "full" & won't bite or scare anyone- just my guess? But if so, that's misguided. I've done many programs with my snakes- even some where they meet (& are handled by) "the public" with no issues ever, & fyi, my snakes are hungry (due to be fed) when I take them. You just read that correctly, lol- I want them "empty" so they don't poo on me or anyone in public/programs. And I've never had any snake of mine bite me or anyone this way- they "change gears" quite well, they understand they're not being fed once I've picked them up. Even if they were hungrily chasing my motion thru the glass right before I took them out.

I have some very large yellow/Florida rat snakes with monstrous appetites to match their size, & one time I took 2 of them to the local library for a kid's program, & thought it might be interesting for the kids to watch them eat. So I took 2 thawed mice with me in a container, & after I handled the snakes a while, I put them each in their travel enclosure & offered them a meal, thinking surely they'd pounce- since I knew they were hungry. They actually hesitated & finally "accepted" the prey, but they were far less than eager. Then I understood- they were in "handling mode". :rofl:

You might want to have them read this thread? Good luck.

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I'm not sure where they got the information. I definitely appreciate someone as knowledgeable as yourself setting me in the right direction. I'm definitely the new person at work so it might take some convincing but I'm determined to give our animals the best care possible. It's so interesting how your snakes behaved. Another question, sorry about asking all the questions lol, do you typically feed your snakes in their enclosures or in a separate bin? My coworkers were debating that as well. My opinion is you're just adding stress that you don't need to add if you're feeding in a bin.

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My snakes are ALWAYS fed where they live, & no, I'm not covered with bite-scars, lol.

Side bins (1) add stress, (2) put shy feeders OFF eating at all, (3) don't help at all, & (4) make it MORE likely you'll get bit, either handling them before or after, when they're still in "feed mode".

Corn snakes act voracious & they are, but the way to tell a hungry corn snake that YOU are not "dinner" is first, blow air across your hand thru the screen so they get your scent. Most will back up right then. Understand that they chase "motion" but don't identify things visually- they need more cues (scent &/or touch). You can also use a quick mist of cool water to their face to "change their channel" quickly. (keep a spray bottle on hand for this, & also for misting them when in shed) I'm not talking about a fire hose or water-blaster- just a spritz- and not only won't it hurt them, many snakes will drink right from the spray when they're thirsty. ;) Remember they get rained on in nature too.

It sounds like her environment is stable, and she’s in capable hands, but I agree that a 10-14 day feeding schedule would be better. My adult colubrids eat every 12-14 days. I can see why she’d take a break from eating weekly. A month off food is no big deal for a healthy snake. Adult mice are fine but if she’ll take them she could also eat small chicks, rats, African soft furs, or quail. Nothing wrong with a diverse diet. Most of my snakes eat 2-3 different types of prey.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

My snakes are ALWAYS fed where they live, & no, I'm not covered with bite-scars, lol.

Side bins (1) add stress, (2) put shy feeders OFF eating at all, (3) don't help at all, & (4) make it MORE likely you'll get bit, either handling them before or after, when they're still in "feed mode".

Corn snakes act voracious & they are, but the way to tell a hungry corn snake that YOU are not "dinner" is first, blow air across your hand thru the screen so they get your scent. Most will back up right then. Understand that they chase "motion" but don't identify things visually- they need more cues (scent &/or touch). You can also use a quick mist of cool water to their face to "change their channel" quickly. (keep a spray bottle on hand for this, & also for misting them when in shed) I'm not talking about a fire hose or water-blaster- just a spritz- and not only won't it hurt them, many snakes will drink right from the spray when they're thirsty. ;) Remember they get rained on in nature too.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

My snakes are ALWAYS fed where they live, & no, I'm not covered with bite-scars, lol.

Side bins (1) add stress, (2) put shy feeders OFF eating at all, (3) don't help at all, & (4) make it MORE likely you'll get bit, either handling them before or after, when they're still in "feed mode".

Corn snakes act voracious & they are, but the way to tell a hungry corn snake that YOU are not "dinner" is first, blow air across your hand thru the screen so they get your scent. Most will back up right then. Understand that they chase "motion" but don't identify things visually- they need more cues (scent &/or touch). You can also use a quick mist of cool water to their face to "change their channel" quickly. (keep a spray bottle on hand for this, & also for misting them when in shed) I'm not talking about a fire hose or water-blaster- just a spritz- and not only won't it hurt them, many snakes will drink right from the spray when they're thirsty. ;) Remember they get rained on in nature too.

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Thank you. Glad through my own research I came to the same conclusion that someone who's been doing this for decades has. That's exactly what I'm doing with my ball python, well no handling as we haven't gotten 3 feeds yet, but letting him get used to my scent and not thinking every time the enclosure opens he's getting fed. I might just be checking his hot spot temperature.

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Originally Posted by Neko_snake

Thank you. Glad through my own research I came to the same conclusion that someone who's been doing this for decades has. That's exactly what I'm doing with my ball python, well no handling as we haven't gotten 3 feeds yet, but letting him get used to my scent and not thinking every time the enclosure opens he's getting fed. I might just be checking his hot spot temperature.

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Rat snakes (including corns) are more scent-oriented, whereas BPs tend to rely on heat signatures so they might not "get" your scent the way a rat snake will. But it doesn't hurt to give them all the cues you can- snakes can't hear & don't see that well (other than "motion" which can be either prey or predator coming their way), so if you want calm snakes, do your best to communicate thru any means you can. It really helps. They recognize our touch also, but a snake that's thinking "prey" can be hard to approach safely to touch them- that's where "tap (or "hook") training" comes in. I prefer to avoid bites- not that bites from harmless snakes are a big deal, because they're not- but I want my snakes to feel "safe" with me, & communication any way we can truly helps that.

You're asking good questions & I'm glad you got this job- the snakes (& other staff there) needs someone like you, that's asking the right questions & working to improve things. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Rat snakes (including corns) are more scent-oriented, whereas BPs tend to rely on heat signatures so they might not "get" your scent the way a rat snake will. But it doesn't hurt to give them all the cues you can- snakes can't hear & don't see that well (other than "motion" which can be either prey or predator coming their way), so if you want calm snakes, do your best to communicate thru any means you can. It really helps. They recognize our touch also, but a snake that's thinking "prey" can be hard to approach safely to touch them- that's where "tap (or "hook") training" comes in. I prefer to avoid bites- not that bites from harmless snakes are a big deal, because they're not- but I want my snakes to feel "safe" with me, & communication any way we can truly helps that.

You're asking good questions & I'm glad you got this job- the snakes (& other staff there) needs someone like you, that's asking the right questions & working to improve things. :gj:

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Makes sense. I figure the more cues the better. I definitely didn't know rat snakes were scent-orientated so that is very good information to know. I just want to expand not only my own knowledge but to help others like coworkers and the public to have the knowledge to properly take care of these animals. Information is always changing as we learn more so we have to constantly be learning and expanding our knowledge.

Just so I'm getting as much knowledge from you as possible, we also have an Eastern Kingsnake. I know he's another colubrid and he's also an adult. Should he also be on the same feeding schedule as our corn?

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Yes, adult king snakes- feed about every 10 days- one adult mouse. King snakes are often not as "smart" as corn/rat snakes- they tend to be more food-focused, so be cautious about handling them when hungry. Some are very good, others think hands are edible- :D it's hard to generalize. For working with the public, it might be best to handle them "midway" between meals -but then watch for a tell-tale bulge above the vent/cloaca that means they're about to take a dump.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Yes, adult king snakes- feed about every 10 days- one adult mouse. King snakes are often not as "smart" as corn/rat snakes- they tend to be more food-focused, so be cautious about handling them when hungry. Some are very good, others think hands are edible- :D it's hard to generalize. For working with the public, it might be best to handle them "midway" between meals -but then watch for a tell-tale bulge above the vent/cloaca that means they're about to take a dump.

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Thank you so much for all the information. I really appreciate it.

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You're welcome. I don't currently have any king snakes, but I've kept various kinds in the past, & bred some of them too. I personally prefer rat snakes, but some kings are awfully nice too- & all snakes are worth knowing & understanding anyway.

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Originally Posted by Neko_snake

I'm not sure where they got the information.

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Like many things in this rapidly evolving hobby, it's probably simply outdated info. I remember back when I was young (and this is isn't even two decades ago mind you) the overriding majority of pet books I'd read would have a generic "1 meal a week" quota for feeding snakes. No regard for species, age or body condition, just the same rigid, overly basic advice.

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

Like many things in this rapidly evolving hobby, it's probably simply outdated info. I remember back when I was young (and this is isn't even two decades ago mind you) the overriding majority of pet books I'd read would have a generic "1 meal a week" quota for feeding snakes. No regard for species, age or body condition, just the same rigid, overly basic advice.

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Makes sense. That's why I like to keep learning and evolving our care based off the latest information. If we're striving to provide the best care then we have to be knowledgeable about what's best.

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So my coworkers are worried because our corn snake still hasn't eaten. However she ate the 2nd so this would be week 4 she hasn't eaten. She's an adult and she weighs 916 grams and is 115 cm. She also pooped 2 days ago so that's working correctly. I'm not sure we should necessarily be worried yet. Keep an eye on her sure but not necessarily worry.

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Originally Posted by Neko_snake

So my coworkers are worried because our corn snake still hasn't eaten. However she ate the 2nd so this would be week 4 she hasn't eaten. She's an adult and she weighs 916 grams and is 115 cm. She also pooped 2 days ago so that's working correctly. I'm not sure we should necessarily be worried yet. Keep an eye on her sure but not necessarily worry.

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Unfortunately the measurements you gave don't mean much to me- I go by appearance & never weigh my snakes unless I have to dose a medication, which hasn't been for many years now.

However, a snake that's been over-fed for such a long time is certainly entitled to take a food-"vacation" IMO. As long as she passes a basic "check-up" (no suspicious lumps or swellings? breathing clear- not showing signs of an RI or mouth rot? Stool looks normal? etc.)

FYI, one of my big eaters, a very large adult male FL (yellow+) rat snake just took about 3 mos. off from eating- the first time he's ever done that. He's now back to chowing down. When snakes get older, they need less food- & their body may remind them. BTW, this rat snake is 14 years old. Remember, in the wild, these snakes would be brumating for part of the year, but in captivity, most are not. Most likely "your" corn snake is just fine. And she just defecated too, so as you said, "that's working" okay. There are some keepers that don't believe in feeding snakes on schedule, but only feed once they defecate the previous meal. I'm not saying I would ever do that- that's far less food than most of us feed, but it might be more like what happens in the wild? Since this corn snake just defecated, I'd watch & see if she's not acting hungry in about a week? Another thing- it's likely that elderly snakes don't digest as well as when they were younger. Make sure to only feed lean adult mice- not chubby old breeder-mice.

So 115 cm is just under 4' long- which is a normal size for an adult corn, but not as big as they get. Would help to know this one's actual age.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Unfortunately the measurements you gave don't mean much to me- I go by appearance & never weigh my snakes unless I have to dose a medication, which hasn't been for many years now.

However, a snake that's been over-fed for such a long time is certainly entitled to take a food-"vacation" IMO. As long as she passes a basic "check-up" (no suspicious lumps or swellings? breathing clear- not showing signs of an RI or mouth rot? Stool looks normal? etc.)

FYI, one of my big eaters, a very large adult male FL (yellow+) rat snake just took about 3 mos. off from eating- the first time he's ever done that. He's now back to chowing down. When snakes get older, they need less food- & their body may remind them. BTW, this rat snake is 14 years old. Remember, in the wild, these snakes would be brumating for part of the year, but in captivity, most are not. Most likely "your" corn snake is just fine. And she just defecated too, so as you said, "that's working" okay. There are some keepers that don't believe in feeding snakes on schedule, but only feed once they defecate the previous meal. I'm not saying I would ever do that- that's far less food than most of us feed, but it might be more like what happens in the wild? Since this corn snake just defecated, I'd watch & see if she's not acting hungry in about a week? Another thing- it's likely that elderly snakes don't digest as well as when they were younger. Make sure to only feed lean adult mice- not chubby old breeder-mice.

So 115 cm is just under 4' long- which is a normal size for an adult corn, but not as big as they get. Would help to know this one's actual age.

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That's exactly why I say keep an eye on her but not necessarily worry. Unfortunately we don't know her age. I know she sheds every 2-3 months if that helps but that's kinda all the information I have. She's breathing fine, poop was normal. We had let her soak in a tub when she pooped. There's no obvious signs of concern. Just a lack of appetite which could easily be caused by overfeeding.

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Yup, just "wait it out". ;) BTW, my oldest corn snake is 22 years old now. He's about 5' long & doesn't eat near what he used to- it can be every 2 or 3 weeks+ but I lose no sleep over it.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Yup, just "wait it out". ;) BTW, my oldest corn snake is 22 years old now. He's about 5' long & doesn't eat near what he used to- it can be every 2 or 3 weeks+ but I lose no sleep over it.

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Makes sense. Thanks for helping and easing my worries.

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Originally Posted by Neko_snake

Makes sense. Thanks for helping and easing my worries.

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I just hope you can ease theirs.

Two weeks later update...
So it's now been 6 weeks since she last ate. We've started trying to weigh her more often. She's only lost 2% of her total body weight.
But my coworkers are really really worried about her. And I think they're doing things that most wouldn't recommend. They keep handling her fairly regularly and they have started trying to offer her food every day... I'm not sure what to tell them. I've already told them that multiple feedings might stress her and we want to limit stress...

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Originally Posted by Neko_snake

Two weeks later update...
So it's now been 6 weeks since she last ate. We've started trying to weigh her more often. She's only lost 2% of her total body weight.
But my coworkers are really really worried about her. And I think they're doing things that most wouldn't recommend. They keep handling her fairly regularly and they have started trying to offer her food every day... I'm not sure what to tell them. I've already told them that multiple feedings might stress her and we want to limit stress...

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I agree with you- offering food daily is just nuts- & totally wrong. It just adds stress that makes her less likely to want to eat, just as excessive handling may do.

One thing that might also help (since they're handling her anyway)- a little time outside in natural sunlight IF the temperatures are warm enough & also not too hot.

NEVER leave the snake in a container outside (the heat builds up quickly & they can & have died from heat strokes), but just handle her gently while taking a stroll outside, in & out of shade for about 10-20 minutes, making sure she doesn't overheat* at any time. *Remember always that we are roughly 98.6*, and a snake is getting additional heat from our hands+, so if it's over 80* outside, the snake may overheat much sooner thanks to our own added warmth- just adjust the time. And pay attention if she seems very restless- that can indicate discomfort with the temperatures too.

In my experience, it has seemed that the natural sunlight can perk up a snake's appetite (& metabolism)- it's worth trying, especially since they keep handling her anyway- might as well make it useful. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

One thing that might also help (since they're handling her anyway)- a little time outside in natural sunlight IF the temperatures are warm enough & also not too hot.

NEVER leave the snake in a container outside (the heat builds up quickly & they can & have died from heat strokes), but just handle her gently while taking a stroll outside, in & out of shade for about 10-20 minutes, making sure she doesn't overheat* at any time. *Remember always that we are roughly 98.6*, and a snake is getting additional heat from our hands+, so if it's over 80* outside, the snake may overheat much sooner thanks to our own added warmth- just adjust the time. And pay attention if she seems very restless- that can indicate discomfort with the temperatures too.

In my experience, it has seemed that the natural sunlight can perk up a snake's appetite (& metabolism)- it's worth trying, especially since they keep handling her anyway- might as well make it useful. ;)

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That sounds awesome. I'll definitely suggest that. I just wish they wouldn't touch her as much

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Originally Posted by Neko_snake

That sounds awesome. I'll definitely suggest that. I just wish they wouldn't touch her as much

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She probably does too. :rolleyes:

She still hasn't eaten. My coworkers have tried being hands off which is great but it was only because we were busy with field trips. Since she hasn't eaten in so long we're going to have a vet look at her. She's also got a slight bulge at the last third of her body so definitely going to get her looked at

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Originally Posted by Neko_snake

She still hasn't eaten. My coworkers have tried being hands off which is great but it was only because we were busy with field trips. Since she hasn't eaten in so long we're going to have a vet look at her. She's also got a slight bulge at the last third of her body so definitely going to get her looked at

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That bulge is a real concern- potentially she either has a tumor, another type of obstruction (constipation, or ingested substrate that's not digestible, or else something going wrong with her reproductive system, like egg-binding etc.-FYI note- snakes can produce eggs without ever breeding, trust me, even if they're not fertile- & then, if she had no privacy or place to lay them, she could be egg-bound), or even possibly crypto. And I really hope it's none of these. :please: Keep us posted, thanks.

I definitely will. I'm just glad we got her an appointment and hopefully we'll at least have an answer. Hopefully it won't be serious. I definitely know it's a possibility... Typically with reptiles, in my experience, when you see something wrong then it's really wrong. They're so good at hiding illness. Hope for the best but I'm mentally preparing myself for the worst.

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Update on corn snake, still hasn't eaten. She got taken to the vet and got x-rays done. Apparently the lump we noticed was undigested food. Vet recommends some outside time in nature light. Hopefully that gets her digestive system moving and she'll eat something for us.

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Originally Posted by Neko_snake

Update on corn snake, still hasn't eaten. She got taken to the vet and got x-rays done. Apparently the lump we noticed was undigested food. Vet recommends some outside time in nature light. Hopefully that gets her digestive system moving and she'll eat something for us.

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Hmm, that advice sounds familiar? ;) (my post #36) Double-check her temperatures too- make sure she's warm enough to digest. (is there a hide over the warm area so she feels safe to use it for long enough to digest?)

When was the last time she was fed? Seems it was an awfully long time for this to be undigested prey? Still, I'm glad it's not a tumor or true blockage of undigestible stuff.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Hmm, that advice sounds familiar? ;) (my post #36) Double-check her temperatures too- make sure she's warm enough to digest. (is there a hide over the warm area so she feels safe to use it for long enough to digest?)

When was the last time she was fed? Seems it was an awfully long time for this to be undigested prey? Still, I'm glad it's not a tumor or true blockage of undigestible stuff.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Hmm, that advice sounds familiar? ;) (my post #36) Double-check her temperatures too- make sure she's warm enough to digest. (is there a hide over the warm area so she feels safe to use it for long enough to digest?)

When was the last time she was fed? Seems it was an awfully long time for this to be undigested prey? Still, I'm glad it's not a tumor or true blockage of undigestible stuff.

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Exactly lol. Kinda made me laugh when the person who took her to the vet said that. We check temps everyday. She does have a warm hide.

August 2nd is the last time she's had a normal meal. 2 weeks ago one of my coworkers said she left 3 pinkies overnight and only found 2 in the morning. But a pinky is nothing for her.

She went to the vet on Monday and apparently she's pooped twice from then to now (my weekend was Tuesday and Wednesday so this was told to me today) but she still has a lump.

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You're correct, pinkies are not a meal to an adult corn snake. Wonder what's going on with her digestion- would really help to know her age, as when snakes get old they eat less often & don't digest as well. That's what's going on with my 22 year old corn- he doesn't eat as often & prefers smaller mice. (He actually regurged a large mouse about a year+ ago.) What size mouse did she eat on August 2nd? If that was a large mouse, maybe you need to downsize to smaller mice (but not pinkies, lol) that she can better digest.

What temp. is the "cool" part of her home? & what temp. is IN the warm hide? If the warm hide is TOO warm, she might avoid it, & then be too cool to digest well. :confusd: That's what it sounds like.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

You're correct, pinkies are not a meal to an adult corn snake. Wonder what's going on with her digestion- would really help to know her age, as when snakes get old they eat less often & don't digest as well. That's what's going on with my 22 year old corn- he doesn't eat as often & prefers smaller mice. (He actually regurged a large mouse about a year+ ago.) What size mouse did she eat on August 2nd? If that was a large mouse, maybe you need to downsize to smaller mice (but not pinkies, lol) that she can better digest.

What temp. is the "cool" part of her home? & what temp. is IN the warm hide? If the warm hide is TOO warm, she might avoid it, & then be too cool to digest well. :confusd: That's what it sounds like.

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The "cool" area is typically 73-77ish. I've never taken the temp in the actual hide so I'm unsure but it's because she's typically always in it. I believe her last meal was an adult size mouse so on the small size compared to your snake. But we also fed weekly so might have still been digesting the previous meal.

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Originally Posted by Neko_snake

The "cool" area is typically 73-77ish. I've never taken the temp in the actual hide so I'm unsure but it's because she's typically always in it. I believe her last meal was an adult size mouse so on the small size compared to your snake. But we also fed weekly so might have still been digesting the previous meal.

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She should NOT be fed weekly. Feed no more than every 10 days to 2 weeks. Snakes in the middle of digestion don't have enough enzymes to handle a second item thrown in before they finish the initial meal. Most throw it up, but obviously she didn't or couldn't. She also shouldn't be fed if you still see a lump from the last meal. Somehow you have to get this thru their heads, I know this isn't your snake, so good luck.

She has only one hide? or two? (< 1-warm & 1-cool) It's not clear what temps you're referring to. Which hide is she "typically always in..."???

And fyi- my corn snakes use their warm hides (rarely in summer, more in winter), but most often prefer the unheated ones, & my house is 78-79* ambient in summer & 70* in winter.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

She should NOT be fed weekly. Feed no more than every 10 days to 2 weeks. Snakes in the middle of digestion don't have enough enzymes to handle a second item thrown in before they finish the initial meal. Most throw it up, but obviously she didn't or couldn't. She also shouldn't be fed if you still see a lump from the last meal. Somehow you have to get this thru their heads, I know this isn't your snake, so good luck.

She has only one hide? or two? (< 1-warm & 1-cool) It's not clear what temps you're referring to. Which hide is she "typically always in..."???

And fyi- my corn snakes use their warm hides, but most often prefer the unheated ones, & my house is 78-79* ambient in summer & 70* in winter.

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We now definitely know the meal thing. I definitely thank you like before for that information. She has a section of her hide heated and the rest isn't. Her enclosure is a little too small for 2 hides that would fit her so we have one big that spans the gradient. She's typically on the warmest part of that hide. The nature center is set for ambient temperatures around 75°F

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Okay, that makes more sense now- about the temps & hide. (One hide isn't optimal, but I'm sure you know that.)

She should be digesting just fine, even with only the ambient temp. around 75*, so the real problem HAS to be feeding too much & too often- piling more on before she's finished digesting the previous meal. Make sure they let that poor snake digest one meal at a time. :rolleyes: It's a wonder she hasn't barfed up.

Right now I'd feed her on the "long side" (every 14 days) to let her stomach get back on track, & that's ONLY IF & WHEN there's NO bulge left from the previous meal, okay? And smaller mice if you can, also. If she doesn't act hungry, don't worry about persuading her, let her skip a meal too.

And NO handling when she's still digesting (if there's a visible bulge). She might need longer to digest (due to age or just poor digestion); for most snakes, a bulge from a meal takes about 2 days to be gone, but handling might have interfered too.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Okay, that makes more sense now- about the temps & hide. (One hide isn't optimal, but I'm sure you know that.)

She should be digesting just fine, even with only the ambient temp. around 75*, so the real problem HAS to be feeding too much & too often- piling more on before she's finished digesting the previous meal. Make sure they let that poor snake digest one meal at a time. :rolleyes: It's a wonder she hasn't barfed up.

Right now I'd feed her on the "long side" (every 14 days) to let her stomach get back on track, & that's ONLY IF & WHEN there's NO bulge left from the previous meal, okay? And smaller mice if you can, also. If she doesn't act hungry, don't worry about persuading her, let her skip a meal too.

And NO handling when she's still digesting (if there's a visible bulge). She might need longer to digest (due to age or just poor digestion); for most snakes, a bulge from a meal takes about 2 days to be gone, but handling might have interfered too.

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It's bad I almost wish she'd have thrown up. At least then they'd realize that she can't handle eating like that. I'm definitely trying to convince them to give her a break from the constant meals.

I think they're still going to handle her. Mostly because the vet said nature sunlight. But ideally that'll be the only handling she'll get for a while. Especially when our season for doing things with the animals is over.

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