ball python underweight and not eating

Sorry if this thread is long; this is my first snake! I got him about 2 months ago.

He's 18 inches
Weights 1.9oz (54g)
I have no idea how old he is.
The seller just told me that it's a baby male banana pastel.


During the day, he's climbing up along the walls trying to escape.
At night he sits inside his hide with his tiny head peeking out.


I rarely ever see him fully inside his hide. He either has his head peeking out or half his body out.
Even when he goes to sleep


When I first got him, he was extremely underweight. I made an appointment to take him to the vet three weeks ago. I was able to get him to eat 3 days before his appointment. He was still a little on the underweight side so they recommended that I try and feed him live In a separate tank, and after an hour, move him back into his tank?
But I heard that was stressful for a snake? So I'm not sure if I should do that or not.

I also don't have any pet stores by me that sell live feeders.
The seller I got him from fed him f/t, so that's what I feed him now.
I offer him fuzzies, but I only had success with pinkies


He has only eaten twice for me since I got him and It's been three weeks since he last ate.
Every time I try and feed him, he completely ignores the food and crawls up the tongs.
Sometimes he does show some interest, but he never eats it. He just goes back into his hide and peeks his head out

I almost got him to eat last week. It was the first time he struck and coiled for me, but he dropped the fuzzy and went back into his hide.


If anyone has advice on how I can get him to eat? Or if I need to change anything at all? Please let me know.
I just want him to be healthy and feel safe.


Another thing, I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing? But I never see him in a ball form. He's always just spread out


He's in a 36gallon enclosure.
I use UTH connected to a thermostat. I have it set to 95.7f
A ceramic heat emitter for the ambient temp.

Temp gun readings:
Hot side:93-90f
Warm side: 86-80f
Cold side: 77f

Ambient temp: 80-76f
Humidity:60-65°

I have a sheet over the top of the tank so he would feel more secure.
He has 5 hides
2 towards the hot side, one in the middle, and two on the cold side.
plus a cork bark log (not sure if it counts as a hide)
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...824_172751.jpg


He looks really underweight to me, and I'm not sure if I should leave him completely alone for a week with his tank fully covered and then try and feed him?
Or take him to the vet to get him force-fed.
Force-feeding is the last thing I want to do, but I'm worried about his weight

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...1389977855.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...-103681721.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scelery

Sorry if this thread is long; this is my first snake! I got him about 2 months ago.

He's 18 inches
Weights 1.9oz (54g)
I have no idea how old he is.
The seller just told me that it's a baby male banana pastel.


During the day, he's climbing up along the walls trying to escape.
At night he sits inside his hide with his tiny head peeking out.


I rarely ever see him fully inside his hide. He either has his head peeking out or half his body out.
Even when he goes to sleep


When I first got him, he was extremely underweight. I made an appointment to take him to the vet three weeks ago. I was able to get him to eat 3 days before his appointment. He was still a little on the underweight side so they recommended that I try and feed him live In a separate tank, and after an hour, move him back into his tank?
But I heard that was stressful for a snake? So I'm not sure if I should do that or not.

I also don't have any pet stores by me that sell live feeders.
The seller I got him from fed him f/t, so that's what I feed him now.
I offer him fuzzies, but I only had success with pinkies


He has only eaten twice for me since I got him and It's been three weeks since he last ate.
Every time I try and feed him, he completely ignores the food and crawls up the tongs.
Sometimes he does show some interest, but he never eats it. He just goes back into his hide and peeks his head out

I almost got him to eat last week. It was the first time he struck and coiled for me, but he dropped the fuzzy and went back into his hide.


If anyone has advice on how I can get him to eat? Or if I need to change anything at all? Please let me know.
I just want him to be healthy and feel safe.


Another thing, I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing? But I never see him in a ball form. He's always just spread out


He's in a 36gallon enclosure.
I use UTH connected to a thermostat. I have it set to 95.7f
A ceramic heat emitter for the ambient temp.

Temp gun readings:
Hot side:93-90f
Warm side: 86-80f
Cold side: 77f

Ambient temp: 80-76f
Humidity:60-65°

I have a sheet over the top of the tank so he would feel more secure.
He has 5 hides
2 towards the hot side, one in the middle, and two on the cold side.
plus a cork bark log (not sure if it counts as a hide)
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...824_172751.jpg


He looks really underweight to me, and I'm not sure if I should leave him completely alone for a week with his tank fully covered and then try and feed him?
Or take him to the vet to get him force-fed.
Force-feeding is the last thing I want to do, but I'm worried about his weight

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...1389977855.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...-103681721.jpg

---

If he is out and about during the day that could be a sign that he is stressed out. His hides look a little to big for such a small snake. Try getting a few of the small black reptile basics hides, they like really tight fit hides. Also do not feed him in a separate enclosure. This will do more harm than good. If you have to travel far to get a live feeder then do it, that snake is extremely under weight and needs to get eating regularly! A live mouse hopper should do the trick for him. You can also check Craigslist for local rat/mouse breeders. Your husbandry seems fine other than the hides as I mentioned. I think it’s a good idea to cover the tank and leave him be for the week and try again with a live mouse hopper, not frozen thawed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That snake is extremely underweight and I would have assist fed it already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

That snake is extremely underweight and I would have assist fed it already.

---

Would you do that because of how thin the snake is or just because he hasn't eaten frequently? Even if he took a meal previously with his owner?

I agree, this snake is dangerously underweight- but personally I'd tube-feed it, because I have lots of experience & success with that method & it's readily digestible for an underweight & dehydrated snake. -However, for you as a new owner to do that, it probably wouldn't go so well- this snake should really be in experienced hands, IMO.

From the photos, I doubt this snake can "handle" a live hopper mouse- I would stick with offering live fuzzies right now- if you feed too much, he won't be able to keep it down anyway. It will take a long time to actually put visible weight on this poor soul, so I hope you're very patient.

There's something wrong with anyone who'd sell a snake in this condition, & especially to a new snake owner! :(

I'd lower the heat by just a couple degrees- 93* IS too hot, & a high of 88* would be just fine. Remember that a snake's metabolism is governed by temperature- this snake is starving, & he's starving even faster higher temperatures, but it still needs to be warm enough for him to want to eat & to be able to digest. Therefore, a bit of moderation for the "high side" temp.- okay?

Trips to the vet at this point (unless the snake is truly sick) are likely to be counter-productive: it adds stress- which lowers his appetite & the chance of him eating. Even if the vet force-feeds him, there's a good chance he'll regurgitate by the time you get him home, due to vehicle motion, handling, + stress.

DO NOT feed in a separate container/cage- this adds stress & makes it less likely for a snake like this to eat. They eat where they feel safe & hidden, because predators can get them if they're out in the open & busy with a meal of their own.

Did you WARM the f/t prey right before offering? If so, how? This makes a huge difference for snakes like BPs that rely on their heat sensing pits to identify food. If you only tried f/t prey that wasn't warm, you might try again with better methods. Do you have feeding tongs? Did you feed in the evening, in a dimly-lit room? These things are important for success with most BPs.

Also- you want to be as un-noticeable as possible- the room should be quiet. BPs are ambush-predators- they're most likely to grab food in the evening, when peeking from a hide. If offering f/t from tongs, don't wiggle too much & don't approach the snake with it- that's intimidating & NOT what wild rodents do (they don't volunteer to be dinner, lol). You want to give a slight wiggle to the prey (not too much) & as if it's merely passing cluelessly near where the snake is watching- not approaching the snake. You want to see the snake pay attention, & hopefully follow it & feel brave enough to grab it. It would be ideal if you can get him to take f/t fuzzies for a while, to build him up. He can't possibly have much strength now, with as thin as he is in your photos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scelery

He's 18 inches
Weights 1.9oz (54g)
I have no idea how old he is.
The seller just told me that it's a baby male banana pastel.

---

I'm an amateur myself, you can be rest assured someone with more experience will be able to offer some great advice soon enough.

Have been building a very small collection for near 5 years (so far) and this season I have been successful with my first clutch.

54g for a young lad that is AT LEAST 2 months old does seem a bit small for me, but people more familiar with type of scenario may be able to offer reassurances for a snakelet of that age and that weight!

Did the breeder suggest how many feeds is had when with them?

Did you give the prey a good heat signature?

What weight is the prey? As a reference, my snakelets are on frozen thawed which are avg. 15g and they're just over two months old.

Check around the mouth for excess saliva, I.e. streaks in mouth when 'yawning' for example.

Listen for wheezing, but be careful to not mistake a whistle caused by previous shed left near the nostrils.

Wheezing and/or salivating suggests a respiratory infection and will need further treatment from the vet.

Is he toileting? You might expect some urate but not regular stools if he's not eating.

Not eating seems to become a habit for BP's and you need to do what is in his best interests. Its as if their feeding instinct had gone to sleep.

In the images, he does look a little thin for me but the fact he has struck and constricted suggests he wants to eat.

Something I had with one of mine was he couldn't find the head of the food once he'd finish constricting and seemed to give up on it so I started offering him food by holding the prey behind the head with the tongs, and tried to make sure there was a higher heater signature at the head end for him to target. I would lead the the head when offering food and this enabled him to strike the head and latch with greater success, and with it, successful feeds.

I've only force fed once and that was recently with a hatchling having rejected meals for a number of weeks after its first shed. There was just no interest in the prey, it was as if the snakelet didn't register... food!
And as reluctant as I was to force feed, I was uncomfortable to wait any longer considering all its siblings had eaten a number of times over the weeks.
But luckily for me, as soon as I had the fluffs head in the mouth and drew back a little to encourage a latch, instinct kicked in and they constricted, ate the food and has been smashing feeds every week since, so I was lucky with the success I had.

Hopefully I've offered few things that to consider from experiences that have helped me.

He looks like he'll be a lovely example once he behaves for you and stops putting you through your worries... for now!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scelery

...During the day, he's climbing up along the walls trying to escape.
At night he sits inside his hide with his tiny head peeking out.

...When I first got him, he was extremely underweight. I made an appointment to take him to the vet three weeks ago. I was able to get him to eat 3 days before his appointment. He was still a little on the underweight side so they recommended that I try and feed him live In a separate tank, and after an hour, move him back into his tank?
But I heard that was stressful for a snake? So I'm not sure if I should do that or not.


....I almost got him to eat last week. It was the first time he struck and coiled for me, but he dropped the fuzzy and went back into his hide.




He looks really underweight to me, and I'm not sure if I should leave him completely alone for a week with his tank fully covered and then try and feed him?
Or take him to the vet to get him force-fed.
Force-feeding is the last thing I want to do, but I'm worried about his weight

---

Okay, a few more things here:

New snakes are frightened & confused- it's normal for them to "climb the walls" for a while- they're trying to find their "home"- the place they knew before & felt safe. What you describe for him at night is what you want to see & THAT'S when you should be offering him prey. That's what a hungry BP does- they hunt by laying in wait (peeking from a hide is perfect!)- BPs are "ambush" predators!

Your vet doesn't sound experienced with snakes to me, no offense, judging by the advice they gave you (to feed in a side cage) & apparently they weren't very concerned about how thin this snake is? :confusd: He's not a "little underweight", he's a LOT underweight. If you need to find an experienced herp vet near you, this site might help: https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

When he struck & coiled prey last week, but got too shy to feed & left the prey, you should have quickly re-warmed the prey (try a blow dryer), then re-offered just at the doorway to his hide, & if he didn't take it from your tongs, then leave it there (at the doorway), turn out the lights & don't check again until morning. He might have eaten it overnight- often a snake that coils the prey & then feels too conspicuous IS going to eat...ONCE you stop hovering. Remember that for now, YOU appear to be a big scary potential predator that's watching him eat! :O That's why you need to stay out of his way- so he can relax & eat. Remember, dark room! (dim the lights- BPs are nocturnal predators)

I do HOPE you're not handling this snake at all? You should not handle new snakes (even those with healthy weight) until they feed at LEAST 3 times easily for you, with no refusals (unless in shed, then it's normal to refuse food). This snake need privacy & "TLC"- & some measure of luck if he's going to survive & thrive. I wouldn't plan on any un-essential handling of this snake for a very LONG time- he needs to focus on eating & digestion/rest, with minimal stress.

Since he has been willing to take prey items, you should not have to "force-feed" this snake. This seems like just feeding skills you need to work on- & the fact that you got a snake in such poor condition to begin with as a new inexperienced owner.

If & when you get him eating (fuzzies or?), try to feed him about every 5 days if you can. Frequent small easy-to-digest meals are what he needs now, & for quite some time to come. Not too much at once, easy does it- he needs to keep it down. Treat him like a person in the ICU (in hospital) while he gains strength & body weight- rest & food, no handling- low-key environment.

BTW :welcome:

I do use a long feeding tong and I feed him at night. I put the fuzzy in a plastic bag and leave them in lukewarm water for 15mins. I always check to make sure it's completely thawed out before I offer it to him.
If the prey is cold I do heat it using a hairdryer making sure it is warm


I got this little guy off a website (I forgot the name, I'm sorry) The pictures the he showed me were of a healthy ball, but when he arrived he was basically the same weight as he is now. It makes me extremely upset knowing he's this underweight.:(
I'm just happy he survived the shipping process.


Thank you so much for your advice! And thank you for being so nice I appreciate it. I will lower the heat and try and wiggle the prey less
I'll also do some research on different feeding methods and how to do it properly in hopes that he will eat for me

Thank you again

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scelery

I do use a long feeding tong and I feed him at night. I put the fuzzy in a plastic bag and leave them in lukewarm water for 15mins. I always check to make sure it's completely thawed out before I offer it to him.
If the prey is cold I do heat it using a hairdryer making sure it is warm


I got this little guy off a website (I forgot the name, I'm sorry) The pictures the he showed me were of a healthy ball, but when he arrived he was basically the same weight as he is now. It makes me extremely upset knowing he's this underweight.:(
I'm just happy he survived the shipping process.


Thank you so much for your advice! And thank you for being so nice I appreciate it. I will lower the heat and try and wiggle the prey less
I'll also do some research on different feeding methods and how to do it properly in hopes that he will eat for me

Thank you again

---

I thaw rodents in water- cool water first, then very warm (not hot or boiling) briefly to warm them so they're more "lifelike". BUT, water washes off a lot of the rodent's scent- you can pinch-damage the rodent's nose with your tongs to release a little more scent- it may help your snake hit the "target" better, but most BPs need the prey to be very warm- glad you know about using a blow dryer.

Sounds to me like the seller showed you early photos when this snake was a hatchling (with decent body weight) but at 18" long, he's likely a year old, not a hatchling, & it's obvious they didn't update their photo, or you wouldn't have bought him. That's very deceptive, to say the least, & obviously they barely fed him- what some call "maintenance feeding" (just enough to keep the snake alive but not well-fed). I don't agree with this practice at all, & either way, he shouldn't look like this!

I wish you luck- this is an unfortunate way to start off with a new snake. Do keep us posted- we'll help you all that we can. :snake:

Quick afterthought: If you can get this snake to eat prey consistently, I'd avoid weighing him for a while, in case the handling puts him off eating. Trust me, I know how badly you want to see him gain weight, but it's not worth the risk of having him stop eating, & you won't see much of a real* weight gain for a while anyway. *You'll be fooled by water weight gain (when he drinks) or loss, when he defecates; baby mice don't quickly put weight on a snake, but if you can keep him eating- even small stuff- let that be your reward & sustain you for a while. ;)

The only thing the breeder told me was that he feeding them f/t so I'm not sure when he was last fed or how often he was fed.


When I first got him I noticed straight away that he was underweight. I contacted the owner and they denied that he was underweight. I tried contacting them again with more questions, but they never responded after that.


I didn't notice any weird sounds coming from him or saliva
However, I did notice that he yawned a couple of times the first day I got him. I didn't think much of it at the time but I did keep a close eye on him. The first whole week I had him made sure I did not bother him.
After that week I tried offering him food twice a week but had no luck.


He wasn't eating and he was frequently yawning. I got scared.
I wasn't sure if maybe he had a RI? so that's when I decided to take him to the vet


They gave him a physical check-up and told me "he seems fine, no blockage or anything. He's just a little underweight. If he doesn't eat the next week you should fed him live."


He has not gone to the bathroom for me, that I know of? I'm scared to move anything around in his tank atm, but when I check on the temps I'll be sure to look around his tank for any unusual stools.




When I feed him, I brain it and I hold the fuzzy by its hips so the head is facing in his direction. I know eating is a stressful process for them so I try and make it so if he does grab it, it's by the head first.


I first got him to eat it took about 15mins. He never struck at it?
I got his attention when I brained the mouse
He stared it down, I was thinking he was going to strike at it but he didn't
He sat with his mouth open for a good 6 seconds not doing anything
so I just decided to place it in his mouth and from there he started to slowly eat it
That's how I got him to eat the first two times, after that I had no luck



Thank you so much! I really do appreciate
I'm gonna take your advice and get a good heat signature when I'm feeding him the prey and recheck his habitat to see if I can fix anything that might be a problem? Cause I really want him to eat


and congrats on your clutch!

I had him for about two months so I thought he would be used to his new enclosure? I've been told that if they keep trying to escape it means there is something wrong with their habitat. I'm not sure what the problem is so that's why I mentioned the wall climbing
Someone on the thread mentioned that his hides might be too big so I am going to get him smaller hides. I want him to feel safe in his enclosure so I see that I have to make some changes

I asked the vet about his weight multiple times!! All they kept telling me was I should be feeding it live as f/t because it's not healthy for them and if I feed him in my tank I'm more likely to get bit? I've always been told that once they ate you should bother/handle them for at least 24hours?
I could care less about the biting. I was just worried about his weight, but I don't think they were
so I don't know if I'll be going back to that vet




When he peeks its head out of his hide is when I offer him food. The night he struck and coiled I did go and reheat the prey hoping he would try again
sadly he didn't come back out of his hide
I occasionally do leave the prey in his tank overnight. On that night I did leave it in his tank
but I don't think he came back out of his hide that night


Don't worry I'm not handling him at all! I promise
I know handling can be stressful for them and with him not eating I don't want to make things worse.


I got this little guy off a website. The pictures they showed me were of a healthy ball, but when he arrived he was basically the same weight he is now :(
I tried contacting them multiple times but they never got back to me
I'm honestly just happy this little guy survived the shipping process.
It's really upsetting to see him so underweight
I was really hoping the vet would help out with him but they didn't say much on about his weight




Thank you so much for your feedback! I try and feed him every five days like you said and also do research on how to properly feed a bp. I'm hoping I can learn something and get him to eat
And by small meals do you think I should offer him pinkies as well? I feed him fuzzies now
when I got him to eat the first two times they were with the pinkies


Also thank you for the link. I'll definitely check it out
The sooner I can get him to eat the better

I'll get back later with more (it's my dinner time), but yes, pinkies ARE too small for a BP. Even fuzzies are really too small for a hatchling BP, however- when a snake is this thin & malnourished, they may also not have adequate digestive enzymes for a larger meal- all bodily functions are tied to a snake having good nutrition & proper hydration to function & digest meals.

He should be on small hopper mice soon, IF he's taking fuzzies now (either live or f/t), but I'd just take it cautiously*- especially since you mentioned earlier that he only wanted pinkies. Normal hatchling BPs are big enough to eat hopper mice, but this guy's in guarded condition & the last thing you want is for him to regurgitate his meal. (And yes, that's another reason the vet you saw is clearly out of touch- handling a snake after a meal in a side cage makes regurgitation more likely- that's assuming they'll be brave enough to eat at all after you've handled them to put them there in the first place. BPs are shy snakes- handling them distracts them from feeding. Some snakes won't care, but most BPs will.)

Also, offering food too often can stress a snake that's not eating into more refusals- for this guy, I'd try every 5 days because he's so thin- usually I'd suggest not more often than every 7 days for most snakes (with good body weight), but taking small meals every 5 days would help this guy, if you can talk him into it.

I applaud you for being willing to learn & really fight for this guy- you're just what he needs. And again, we'll help you all we can here to help him.

Okay, more thoughts about your 2 long & helpful posts above:

I'm not surprised (& don't worry!) that this snake hasn't defecated at all yet. Young rodents are very digestible (smaller bones, less fur)- there isn't much waste leftover for your snake to expel. It's normal for snakes eating young rodents to eat a number of meals before they have to go- it's not a problem, unless he starts looking bloated above his cloaca (aka "vent"), or you feel some hard lumps in that region (snakes occasionally can form urate "stones" that can block them up). So- not to worry. ;)

Reputable snake breeders should be providing feeding records & hatch date- & in some places, are also required to provide a general care sheet. (been there, done that ;) )

Snakes often yawn after eating, to re-set their jaws (so their teeth align properly- their flexible jaws sometimes get a little out of whack). Why your snake yawned when you first got him, I can't say, but if you saw no signs of an RI (bubbles, crackling or whistling sounds, excess saliva) don't worry about it. Good that you thought to check with a vet, just picked the wrong one it seems. :snake:

Snakes are very stoic- it's hard enough for a vet to diagnose them, & unless you find a real specialist with experience, many have little knowledge of snake husbandry, even if they're willing to let you pay them for their time. Vets also focus on medical & surgical interventions- they don't have time for discussing every aspect of general care (even if they know), & often, that's what needs to be fixed.

Good that you know to look for "unusual stools"- things like red color (blood) or mucus, etc. Later on, it might be helpful to have a fresh stool sample from this guy analyzed, in case he has intestinal parasites going on, but just work on feeding him for a while now first, & don't worry about it. Eating is "job #1".

Many snakes know instinctively (or from practice) that baby rodents pose no danger to them, so they don't bother constricting. It's fine, not a problem. If he was raised on f/t, that's also why he just ate without fuss. There's nothing wrong with how you offered (though I'd pinch the nose rather than 'braining'- yuck!) & hopefully warmer prey will get a better response from him.

I agree with using smaller hides- something just a little bigger than he is, with only one doorway that's not too big- & low "ceilings" are preferred.

Feeding live is normal for what happens in nature, & often young snakes need to start on live rodents while they're practicing their proper food response- after that, it's best* to switch to f/t or f/k (frozen-thawed or fresh-killed) *because it's more humane, more convenient, & way safer for the snake (sooner or later, snakes get hurt when more mature rodents object to being dinner & bite back). It's fairly unusual for a vet to recommend feeding only live- any exotic vet with much experience has stitched up plenty of snakes injured by their live prey, not to mention that many people keep rodents as pets too. There's also very little nutritional difference for your snake, but live prey can transfer intestinal parasites (worms) to your snake, whereas f/t won't. ;)

There are ways to signal to your snake that you're not incoming prey & avoid nips- for one thing, learn your snake's body language, but also let them know who you are by scent & touch (their best senses). That old story about snakes biting you because you feed them in their home enclosure is just nonsense- spread by those who have learned nothing about communicating with their snakes, or about reading their body language. :rolleyes: You're correct about leaving your snake to rest for at least a day or 2 after he eats (once you're handling him, that is). :gj:

This seller didn't get back to you because they knew darned well what they did (selling you a snake in poor condition). :(

Not much else I can add here that others already haven't, but just wanted to send best wishes. Really is unfortunate that you got duped and ended up with a snake with a rough start. Hopefully the poor little guy pulls through. :please:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

learn your snake's body language, but also let them know who you are by scent & touch (their best senses).

---

100% this. And it isn't always obvious either. Can take years and you'll still second guess what you may be seeing!

Right now, as I type this, my enchi pin is giving me the indicators that she is eager for food and it's just passed 09.00 am. This ties in to her shedding just two days ago, but I want to weigh her today so she won't have her meal tonight (although she will eat the same day she's handled as I've mistakenly discovered in the past, but I tend not handle on feeding days).

I also prefer to feed on Saturday or Sunday evenings.

And on top of this, my chocolate (bell line) male is an extremely shy eater and doesn't give any seemingly obvious indicators that he's hunting for food. If I get him to strike and constrict, it's a bonus, but he generally prefers the prey left overnight and you just cross your fingers you come down to an rat free home the next morning.

So two examples at completely opposite ends of the spectrum for you to consider.

Personally, if I was in your position right now, I would seriously contemplate force feeding for the animals own welfare now, just to get the nutrients into the body.

But I would also like to stress that I only have a fraction of the experience that other here do, and you've already been advised by some very knowledgeable keepers.

It will ultimately come down to what you decide is the right course of action at the right time.

Good luck, I hope his eating kicks in for you soon. My biggest worry is when they go off eating, and BP's are notorious for it!

Thank you for all the advice and support! You have no idea how much it means to me.
I've been reading all the posts and tried all the things you guys recommended


Last night I was able to get a pinkie in him.
I rinsed the prey with cold water first before putting them in the warm water to thaw it.
I didn't know about the nose pitching trick. Thank you for that! --It's a lot nicer than pushing out the brain guts--




When I fed him last night, I went in from the top of his enclosure instead of opening up the front door to try and feed him. That way, his tank is still covered, and he wouldn't be able to see me. I also minimized the amount of wiggling so I wouldn't scare him off.


I did offer him both a fuzzy and a pinkie last night. The fuzzy first and then the pinkie right after (I hope that's ok?)


He didn't take it either, sadly.
I didn't want to wait another five days of him not eating, and the probability of him eating the next time I would offer it seemed unlikely.
so I decided to force-feed him last night




I was hoping it would be more of an assist feed, but I end up having to push it down his throat a little


He did start eating it by himself once I got it halfway down his throat. The prey did go into his belly. I checked on him this morning and saw the little bump still into his stomach, so he didn't regurgitate it. I'm happy that he didn't.
I am gonna wait the five days like you guys said, and then try and feed him again.




For his next scheduled feeding, I want to try and do the same thing I did yesterday night. Offer him a pinkie to see if he would eat it by himself and if he doesn't, force-feed him again? Just until he's almost at a healthy weight and just not skin and bones.
Or do you think that's a bad idea?


I know he should be eating fuzzies or hopers because of the calcium and nutrition they have.
But I didn't feel comfortable force-feeding him something that big. I was scared he would be more likely to regurgitate it because of the size.


Every time I tried feeding him a fuzzy before, to me, he just looked scared of it? He would always back away from it and go into his hide.
The one time he did strike at it, he dropped it right after and went back into his hide.
so that's why I decided to go with the pinkie instead




I don't plan on handling, weighing, or bothering him at all until he starts constantly eating. I want him to be a healthy little boy.


Also, I did order the small box hides yesterday. They should be coming in tonight!
Do you guys think it would be ok if I change out hides today? or do you think I should wait? It hasn't been a full 24hours yet since I feed him.
I don't want to stress him out more than he probably is now, and I know changing their environment does just that.


I'm hoping the reason he isn't eating is because of the hides that are currently in his tank. So I do want to change them as soon as possible if I can.


He's been a little less active once I completely coved his enclosure, but he is still roaming around during the day (My room is really quiet, so I can hear him when he's out and about.)


I'll love any advice or criticism anyone has for me
Thank you all again!

How warm is the prey you're offering? It should be warm but not hot to the touch and they cool down very fast. By a fuzzy and a pinky do you mean a rat or a mouse? You did good by going in from the top and keeping everything covered so he doesn't see you. I would suggest avoiding the pinky and sticking with the fuzzy, the pinky wont give him enough nutrients compared to the bigger fuzzy. You want to put weight on him but not to much weight in a short amount of time. Since you did assist feed him and he continued to eat it after is a good sign. Give him some more time alone. Go ahead and change out his hides when you can, just leave them in the same places as the ones you had previously. Him being less active during the day is also a good sign. I would keep him on that 5 day feeding schedule until he gets some size on him, then switch to weekly feedings

I'm not a fan of force-feeding (in part, because it can cause or reinforce the snake's fear of the prey by association), but it's truly essential that one way or another, you get some food into this snake & keep on doing so. :gj:

One way to think about it is this: when a person is in the hospital, too sick to eat, they're given nutritional support in the form of an I.V.- without that, they may never have the energy or feel well enough to want to eat, to get their appetite back & have their body recover.

We can't do that (give an I.V.) for a snake- so the next best thing is easily digestible nutrition, in the form of "frequent" (every 5-7 days) small feedings of easily digested prey or in the form of a liquid diet that is tube-fed. The HOPE here is that after one or multiple feedings, that your snake's natural appetite will kick in, so always TRY to offer food (prey) naturally first, & then only if it's refused, do what you need to do to get some nutrition into him. When a snake is this underweight, be prepared for it to take a long time to get his weight up to where it should be. There's no telling how long it will take before he eats willingly, but we're all crossing our fingers for you (& him) that it's sooner rather than later. :snake:

BTW, I'd probably wait a day or 2 to switch out the hides- just to make sure that the disruption doesn't stress him into regurgitating his food. I would expect his digestion may take longer than it would for a more healthy snake- just because a snake that isn't eating isn't making a surplus of digestive enzymes that are essential to get the job done easily. Getting him healthy & strong again will take time & be a slow process.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

....Sounds to me like the seller showed you early photos when this snake was a hatchling (with decent body weight) but at 18" long, he's likely a year old, not a hatchling......

---

I agree with everything you say, but just for FYI, but our female BP is 2.5 month old, 20.4" long at 97g; she grew about 1.5" since we got her last month.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scelery

...I offer him fuzzies, but I only had success with pinkies...

---

Since he is eating pinkies, I personally would keep trying f/t pinkies; are these rat or mouse pinkies? Rat pinkies have better nutrition/calories. Since he is small and needs the nutrition, if he takes pinkies, I would keep trying every 4-5 days. If he eats, keep that up until he starts showing gains and is eating regular, and then you can try to move up in size from there and should be able to spread it out to every 5-7 days.

I would keep offering what works and not change anything yet. Our little one should be on rat fuzzies, but she still shys away from them, so we either do a small mouse or a large rat pinkie [whatever our local store has available]- something around that size.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AutumnVanilla

I agree with everything you say, but just for FYI, but our female BP is 2.5 month old, 20.4" long at 97g; she grew about 1.5" since we got her last month...

---

The reason I'm guessing the OP's snake may be a yearling is because they got him 2 months ago in this condition- obviously starving & probably "maintenance fed" (ie. minimally fed) for some time. A snake in this condition is clearly not growing- and since it looked normal (in terms of body weight) in the picture they were shown prior to the sale, it's obvious that it didn't get this way "overnight". The big difference, compared to your BP, is that yours is eating & growing. I've no doubt that yours grew well in 2.5 months to 20"+ -that's what food does. ;)

Good Info in this thread....

You got a meal in her Great start.......

All I can add is I took in a BP from a pet store that the employees were scared of (at 79 grams), She was under fed, had a mite scare and a regurge when I

first got her. Took time and patience but now she's a monster feeder, as in she'll come out of her enclosure after the rat when it feeding time, and she's eating 55

to 60 gram rats now.

So fingers crossed and good luck! Here's hoping your BP catches on and becomes a Great Snake for you!!

I would hope these are rat pinkies and not mouse pinkies. If you've ever tried to assist feed a mouse pinky you find out quickly that it turns into squished pinky-goo after a few attempts should the snake spit it out.

I don't like assist feeding pinkies (whether mice or rat, depending on neonate size) because they're basically just squishy bags of water, and trying to force one down a snake's throat makes a gross mess. Instead, when I assist feed I start with something like the hind leg cut off of a f/t mouse or rat, followed by a whole prey feeder of appropriate size unless the snake is so tiny that the hind leg is a good sized meal on its own. Otherwise, the hind leg should be sized so it's a decent mouthful for the snake.


Have the warmed hind leg and whole prey f/t feeder ready to go. Grasp the snake's head with your thumb and forefinger just behind its eyes, but gently around the jaw so that it can still open it's mouth. The snake's neck should be supported by your other fingers.


Take the hind leg and fold it at the hock joint. Insert the folded end of the hind leg into the snake's mouth. This is easier than using a whole feeder because the long leg bone is perfect for prying the snake's mouth open. Push the hind leg back as far as you can.


The hind leg is very hard for the snake to eject since it will unfold and often gets caught behind the snake's teeth when the snake opens its mouth to spit it out. The snake will likely try to run away while attempting to spit out the hind leg. That's fine, just let it run through your hands.


When the snake stops running and starts swallowing the hind leg, quickly sneak the nose of the whole prey feeder into the snake's mouth so it follows the hind leg down the hatch. You may have to support or push on the feeder a bit but the snake should grab and swallow the feeder once the leg moves down the snake's throat a bit.


Don't get discouraged if the snake manages to just eat the hind leg on your first few attempts. A small meal is better than no meal. Also wait 5-7 days between assist feedings with the absolute minimum of handling required for daily care to give the snake time to de-stress, especially if you manage to get the snake to eat a whole-prey feeder.


Once I started breeding unfortunately once a season I'd end up with some neonate or other that need an assist. I watched a lot of Youtube videos for ideas. This one helped me a lot and gave me the idea for using the hind leg to get the snake started. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HT2npbERKY

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snow Balls

How warm is the prey you're offering? It should be warm but not hot to the touch and they cool down very fast. By a fuzzy and a pinky do you mean a rat or a mouse? You did good by going in from the top and keeping everything covered so he doesn't see you. I would suggest avoiding the pinky and sticking with the fuzzy, the pinky wont give him enough nutrients compared to the bigger fuzzy. You want to put weight on him but not to much weight in a short amount of time. Since you did assist feed him and he continued to eat it after is a good sign. Give him some more time alone. Go ahead and change out his hides when you can, just leave them in the same places as the ones you had previously. Him being less active during the day is also a good sign. I would keep him on that 5 day feeding schedule until he gets some size on him, then switch to weekly feedings

---

I measure the heat of the prey with a heat gun
I try and keep them in the 90s or mid 80s. If they go below 80 I take them and warm them up with a hair dryer.

I feed him mice
None of my local pets stores sell medium or small rats
Only large rats

I read up yesterday that some snakes prefer rats over mice? So I did order him some hopefully they come in soon

Tonight is his feeding night
I do want him getting his proper nutrients so I will avoid the pinkies and offer him a fuzzy !
Crossing my fingers he'll eat for me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

I would hope these are rat pinkies and not mouse pinkies. If you've ever tried to assist feed a mouse pinky you find out quickly that it turns into squished pinky-goo after a few attempts should the snake spit it out.

I don't like assist feeding pinkies (whether mice or rat, depending on neonate size) because they're basically just squishy bags of water, and trying to force one down a snake's throat makes a gross mess. Instead, when I assist feed I start with something like the hind leg cut off of a f/t mouse or rat, followed by a whole prey feeder of appropriate size unless the snake is so tiny that the hind leg is a good sized meal on its own. Otherwise, the hind leg should be sized so it's a decent mouthful for the snake.


Have the warmed hind leg and whole prey f/t feeder ready to go. Grasp the snake's head with your thumb and forefinger just behind its eyes, but gently around the jaw so that it can still open it's mouth. The snake's neck should be supported by your other fingers.


Take the hind leg and fold it at the hock joint. Insert the folded end of the hind leg into the snake's mouth. This is easier than using a whole feeder because the long leg bone is perfect for prying the snake's mouth open. Push the hind leg back as far as you can.


The hind leg is very hard for the snake to eject since it will unfold and often gets caught behind the snake's teeth when the snake opens its mouth to spit it out. The snake will likely try to run away while attempting to spit out the hind leg. That's fine, just let it run through your hands.


When the snake stops running and starts swallowing the hind leg, quickly sneak the nose of the whole prey feeder into the snake's mouth so it follows the hind leg down the hatch. You may have to support or push on the feeder a bit but the snake should grab and swallow the feeder once the leg moves down the snake's throat a bit.


Don't get discouraged if the snake manages to just eat the hind leg on your first few attempts. A small meal is better than no meal. Also wait 5-7 days between assist feedings with the absolute minimum of handling required for daily care to give the snake time to de-stress, especially if you manage to get the snake to eat a whole-prey feeder.


Once I started breeding unfortunately once a season I'd end up with some neonate or other that need an assist. I watched a lot of Youtube videos for ideas. This one helped me a lot and gave me the idea for using the hind leg to get the snake started. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HT2npbERKY

---

I feel stupid. It was a mouse pinky that I fed him. I didn't even think to cut up the larger prey for him.
I cut up crickets for my slings and mantises all the time
I'm not sure why I didn't think about that


I'll definitely check out that video out
Thank you!!

Today is his feeding day, so I'll try the rat leg tonight

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scelery

Today is his feeding day, so I'll try the rat leg tonight

---

The assumption here is you'll try and let him strike and constrict first?

Hopefully that meal you got into him last week kick-started his feeding instinct again and he'll be raring to go now!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scelery

I measure the heat of the prey with a heat gun
I try and keep them in the 90s or mid 80s. If they go below 80 I take them and warm them up with a hair dryer.

---

I would heat it up a little warmer into the high 90s or low 100s. You are also right about some snakes preferring rats over mice. I had one hatchling this year refuse 8 mouse hoppers before finally taking a rat fuzzy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scelery

.... It was a mouse pinky that I fed him.

---

I can remember (many years ago!) I once tried to feed a mouse pinky to a BP- it appeared to get stuck on his teeth! So yes, they're way too small for a hatchling BP.

Not to worry, everyone has more stuff to learn- & that's why we're here to share what works. ;)

BP neonates can typically take mouse hoppers as their first meal after hatching. If you've been feeding mouse pinkies for two months your snake has been on a starvation diet.

If you have to assist feed a rat hind leg then follow it with a f/t mouse fuzzy at least.