Food Size Question

Putting this question out to the all knowledgeable board. Phantom is approximately 3 years old and around 1000 grams. He’s been feeding on small F/T rats for a year and a couple months. Should I keep him at this size or is it time to up the size to medium rats? Currently smalls are convenient since my finicky BP is on this size and it’s easy to throw the BOA refusals. Thanks everyone!

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Personally I'd keep him where he is for now- his body, as best I can tell, has good weight, muscle tone & good proportions (if you imagine a "cross-section" a boa should be shaped like a loaf of bread). He surely doesn't appear thin, & while he could probably put away a medium, he might end up packing on excessive weight- I'll always vote for "slow growth". He's a handsome fellow, & I like the cooperative way he's perching on your scale. :cool: When you do finally go to medium rats, you'll also want to lengthen the time between meals- they take longer to digest- but I wouldn't rush it. He looks great.

Hey CK! Your boa is looking GREAT! He’s definitely big enough to eat medium rats. I’d feed him a medium every 2-3 weeks. You can also alternate between sizes if you want or when the BP doesn’t eat.

He looks like he is in great shape, not like he is starving or anything. I'd stick with what you are doing because it's convenient. It's not like in the wild they get perfectly sized prey.

My retics are garbage disposals for my hatchling BPs and it ends up working out that they eat smaller prey more often than the ideal sized prey, but their growth rate is still being balanced well.

Realistically, I'd probably start to mix it up (give an occasional medium) as El-Ziggy suggested & see how it goes, rather than any sudden switch over anyway. Snakes in nature sure don't get the same size prey all the time- but I'd avoid any sudden big increments.

Sorry for any typos. Computer is off due to storm in NE USA right now and I am on the phone.

Two questions.

1. How big do you want him and how fast?

2. How often do you plan on feeding?

I’ll get back after you answer.

However. Boa’s are incredibly efficient and he will continue to grow on small rats.

That won’t hurt him at all. He will only grow slower.

Small rats are nutritionally almost identical to a medium rat. Both are adults. So you are only talking about amount of food/calories, not nutritional value.

He will grow faster on mediums but it won’t hurt him or be better for him, IMO.

So it’s a personal choice.

if you go to mediums and at his size I would feed every 3 weeks.

Behira eats mediums and is growing still and she’s almost 2.4kg. For perspective. She eats every two weeks usually but it’s a smaller meal for her by far than it would be for you guy - who looks great by the way.

I’m all for diversity and mixing things up. I don’t weigh my snakes or their prey. I just feed them a prey size I think/know they can handle and they usually fluctuate between 2-3 prey sizes. My boas can handle large rats regularly but they eat mostly mediums with an occasional large rat. I also feed them chicks and jumbo mice as snacks. Admittedly, I feed a little heavier than some so that should be considered too. 😎

Thanks everyone for weighing in on food size. My main objective is to grow a healthy boa no matter how long it may take. Like most of you have suggested, I'll probably scatter in some mediums here and there and increase the duration from the current 2 weeks to 3 when a medium is offered.

My snakes are about the same size and age as yours. They are a bit pudgy like me so I feed 1 small rat every 3 weeks. I’m going to continue to feed smalls until they lean out over time then maybe move to medium later.

Unless you are feeding for breeding, you might consider sizing the prey so that it creates a small to medium bulge in the snake's body; making sure the bulge does away in a day or two. I've done this for my 21 month old BCI and it seems to work well. I learned about it from a breeder who does a lot of educational videos. He does not weigh either the snake or the prey. It sort of makes sense if you are just trying to feed for long term steady growth. But every snake is differend so just take this as something to consider. And, by the way, you have a very beautiful snake. Great question!

Unless you are feeding for breeding, you might try introducing a prey size that produces a small bulge in the snake's body. The bulge should go away in two to three days. I've done that with my 21 month old BCI and he seems to be doing well. I learned that system from a top breeder on line who does a lot of educational videos. He does not weigh either the snake or the prey. All snakes are different so just take this as something to think about. You have a beautiful snake with a healthy rectangular body. Thanks for the great question!

It is kind of troubling that playing musical food (offering a refused prey item to another animal after the item has been in the other animal's enclosure) goes without comment. Not criticism, exactly, but just an expression of surprise.

It should be considered, anyway, that best care practices should include biosafety protocols between all animals in a collection: hand sanitizer/washing between handlings of one animal and the next, disinfection of equipment before reuse with next animal, and discarding of refused prey items that have contacted another animal or its enclosure contents, or been possibly exposed to respiratory droplets. Refreezing the prey item (bagged separately, of course, and labeled clearly) for future offering to the original animal is a safe way to reduce feeder waste.

This is especially relevant since snakes can and do carry pathogens asymptomatically that are fatal to snakes of other taxa; nidovirus is carried usually asymptomatically by boids and is symptomatic to quickly fatal in pythons. P. molurus carries the internal parasite Raillietiella orientalis with minimal symptoms but the worm affects colubrids and vipers much more strongly, as was found in Florida wild populations.

We don't know about all the possible reptile pathogens, nor will we ever have identified them all, so assuming that each animal is possibly contagious is one way to help make sure that if it is in fact carrying a pathogen that pathogen won't spread throughout a collection (where 'collection' means 'two or more animals').

Hey everyone. It’s been a minute since I’ve posted but wanted to checkin and get some advice again on prey size for my 5 year old male BCI. He’s been snacking on Medium FT rats for about 1.5 years; feeding every 14-18 days. For my next order I’m thinking about sprinkling in some large rats every couple of feedings while increasing the waiting period to 3 weeks when doing so. Does this sound like a wise plan or should I continue on mediums? Posting some pictures for size reference.

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He's looking good. I'd keep him on mediums, personally- I don't like overfed snakes- it's not healthy for them. I had for many years a larger (female) BCI & she did great on medium rats. Only once I gave her a large rat & immediately regretted it- it was much harder for her to digest (& she was quite large too- 7 1/2' long & in her life, she got to roughly 8') & she looked uncomfortable for at least several days. I was very relieved that she kept it down & digested it, but I never did that again. Keep in mind that medium rats are leaner too, than large rats are. (large rats are older- typically former breeders)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

He's looking good. I'd keep him on mediums, personally- I don't like overfed snakes- it's not healthy for them. I had for many years a larger (female) BCI & she did great on medium rats. Only once I gave her a large rat & immediately regretted it- it was much harder for her to digest (& she was quite large too- 7 1/2' long & in her life, she got to roughly 8') & she looked uncomfortable for at least several days. I was very relieved that she kept it down & digested it, but I never did that again. Keep in mind that medium rats are leaner too, than large rats are. (large rats are older- typically former breeders)

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I appreciate the advice and definitely don't want to overfeed but more importantly didn't want the mediums to feel like it was too little for him since he's been on this size prey for awhile now.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

He's looking good. I'd keep him on mediums, personally- I don't like overfed snakes- it's not healthy for them. I had for many years a larger (female) BCI & she did great on medium rats. Only once I gave her a large rat & immediately regretted it- it was much harder for her to digest (& she was quite large too- 7 1/2' long & in her life, she got to roughly 8') & she looked uncomfortable for at least several days. I was very relieved that she kept it down & digested it, but I never did that again. Keep in mind that medium rats are leaner too, than large rats are. (large rats are older- typically former breeders)

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I like this comment. It makes sense, and that's a big boa!

I do things a bit differently but in the end things even out.

I feed larger prey monthly or sometimes a little longer, then I will not only switch up the size of the prey and will switch the prey animal.

My boa is coming up on 11 years old the end of June.

He typically eats large rats large quail and one to two pound rabbits.

The boa is NOT fed from October until March or April.

In order to do this, you have to know your snake and keep things reasonable. A 2 pound rabbit is a lot for my boa. Having said that, after his last rabbit of that size, he looked better than he's looked in years. His coloring really popped. I assume the nutrient qualities in rabbits may supersede that of rats. The snake is very lean.

I've never ever weighed food and I don't weigh the snakes.

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This boa is around the 7 foot range, my guess is a little under.

In the spring, especially this year, he's active to the point of pushing. I suspect he'd like a mate but that's not going to happen.

There's no harm in offering a large rat. If it is too big, the snake either won't take it, or it will back out if the swallowing process is too difficult.

One of the more challenging prey items to swallow is quail. Oddly, quail can be much lighter than rats, but the shape gives the snake's gape a workout.

Trying something within reason won't hurt your animal. The wild ones take what they can, and that includes a variety of shapes, sizes and prey animals.

At 6 years old you can certainly stretch the time between feedings to 4 weeks.

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Originally Posted by Gio

I like this comment. It makes sense, and that's a big boa!

I do things a bit differently but in the end things even out.

I feed larger prey monthly or sometimes a little longer, then I will not only switch up the size of the prey and will switch the prey animal.

My boa is coming up on 11 years old the end of June.

He typically eats large rats large quail and one to two pound rabbits.

The boa is NOT fed from October until March or April.

In order to do this, you have to know your snake and keep things reasonable. A 2 pound rabbit is a lot for my boa. Having said that, after his last rabbit of that size, he looked better than he's looked in years. His coloring really popped. I assume the nutrient qualities in rabbits may supersede that of rats. The snake is very lean.

I've never ever weighed food and I don't weigh the snakes.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/sf9lJiV.jpg


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/LTKldsj.jpg


This boa is around the 7 foot range, my guess is a little under.

In the spring, especially this year, he's active to the point of pushing. I suspect he'd like a mate but that's not going to happen.

There's no harm in offering a large rat. If it is too big, the snake either won't take it, or it will back out if the swallowing process is too difficult.

One of the more challenging prey items to swallow is quail. Oddly, quail can be much lighter than rats, but the shape gives the snake's gape a workout.

Trying something within reason won't hurt your animal. The wild ones take what they can, and that includes a variety of shapes, sizes and prey animals.

At 6 years old you can certainly stretch the time between feedings to 4 weeks.

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Thank you for the advice Gio! You're obviously doing something right with that beautiful boa of yours! He has a perfect shape and something I aim to mirror with mine.

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

I appreciate the advice and definitely don't want to overfeed but more importantly didn't want the mediums to feel like it was too little for him since he's been on this size prey for awhile now.

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I really doubt that your snake is "keeping score"- ;) BTW, in case you're wondering- my BCI lived to 18 years- in her final years she moved in w/ friends of mine that are into the bigger snakes. (She was never a snake I planned on having- as a yearling, she was a "free to any home" rescue that no one else wanted because she was an accomplished "fear biter" with everyone- I changed that having understood she was just terrified- I had no bites from her, ever.)

I agree with Gio's post too- just another way to look at it. Changing up prey items is a good idea actually, to ensure maximum nutrients. I've worried less about that since I've always raised my own rodents (& supplement their diets beyond what most sources do). My BCI always looked pretty awesome (highly iridescent) & was always healthy when I had her- she would not have refused any alternative prey, I'm sure, but I just didn't bother. ("if it ain't broke, don't fix it")

And for what it's worth, I never weigh my snakes* or their prey either. (*unless I was trying to dose a medication- which I haven't needed to do in years)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I really doubt that your snake is "keeping score"- ;) BTW, in case you're wondering- my BCI lived to 18 years- in her final years she moved in w/ friends of mine that are into the bigger snakes. (She was never a snake I planned on having- as a yearling, she was a "free to any home" rescue that no one else wanted because she was an accomplished "fear biter" with everyone- I changed that having understood she was just terrified- I had no bites from her, ever.)

I agree with Gio's post too- just another way to look at it. Changing up prey items is a good idea actually, to ensure maximum nutrients. I've worried less about that since I've always raised my own rodents (& supplement their diets beyond what most sources do). My BCI always looked pretty awesome (highly iridescent) & was always healthy when I had her- she would not have refused any alternative prey, I'm sure, but I just didn't bother. ("if it ain't broke, don't fix it")

And for what it's worth, I never weigh my snakes* or their prey either. (*unless I was trying to dose a medication- which I haven't needed to do in years)

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Not to stray off topic too much, but congrats on 18 years. That's starting to get into long lived territory. I'm hoping to get to that mark and further with what I have left here.

It was very upsetting to lose my first, beautiful carpet mix. She ate like a Royal python and went months between feedings on occasion. Otherwise she ate like my others.

Even when you are doing what you think is right, things do happen. 9 years old was a short life.


I think the parties commenting on this thread are in agreement that overfeeding isn't healthy, and also isn't directly related to prey size, unless you are feeding something unreasonably large.

For boas, large rats are probably the limit when it comes to fat content. Quail and rabbits are a nice switch.

Also note that captive raised prey of any type will have more fat than what snakes eat in the wild.

Thank you for refreshing this post with your question, ckuhn003. My eldest boa Genesis will also be turning 5 this year, and I was wondering some of the same things you were about making sure we're feeding our boas appropriately.

All three of my boas (the other two are close to 4 years old) are currently on medium rats, spaced every 2-3 weeks. During the winter months, from the beginning of December through the end of February, I space their feedings further to every 4 weeks, or approximately monthly. I haven't yet done a full-blown winter fast like Gio described, but may consider it in future years. Since all three are males with smaller localities in the mix, I do not anticipate that they will ever need to go above medium rats for prey size.

Also @Gio, my boy Genesis has been especially restless this spring too - the drive to find a "girlfriend" is very noticeable in him this year compared to previous years.

My "aesthetic" posts aside, I had been meaning to ask you guys for your feedback from a health standpoint too - is the trio looking okay, body condition-wise? I just have the photos from the recent photoshoots for now, but I can take additional pics to get better full-body shots if needed.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2Ui5D1cg=w2400

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I think they all look great- they've got that "loaf of bread" look (fairly straight sides & curved top).

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

Thank you for refreshing this post with your question, ckuhn003. My eldest boa Genesis will also be turning 5 this year, and I was wondering some of the same things you were about making sure we're feeding our boas appropriately.

All three of my boas (the other two are close to 4 years old) are currently on medium rats, spaced every 2-3 weeks. During the winter months, from the beginning of December through the end of February, I space their feedings further to every 4 weeks, or approximately monthly. I haven't yet done a full-blown winter fast like Gio described, but may consider it in future years. Since all three are males with smaller localities in the mix, I do not anticipate that they will ever need to go above medium rats for prey size.

Also @Gio, my boy Genesis has been especially restless this spring too - the drive to find a "girlfriend" is very noticeable in him this year compared to previous years.

My "aesthetic" posts aside, I had been meaning to ask you guys for your feedback from a health standpoint too - is the trio looking okay, body condition-wise? I just have the photos from the recent photoshoots for now, but I can take additional pics to get better full-body shots if needed.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2Ui5D1cg=w2400

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...f2wHzdzg=w2400

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...cuhniyYg=w2400

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They look great.
A friend of mine who doesn't post here often did tell me a story about the internal fat that can develop around the liver and other organs of a boas.

I can't recall if it was the personal experience of a friend of his or not unfortunately. The info was about a boa that passed on for no apparent reason. The boa was by all appearances healthy, lean and muscular.

They opened up the snake to get some answers and the was filled with adipose (fat) tissue internally.

Outward appearance probably in general is a good sign that an animal is healthy.

This subject has a lot of depth. The same friend of mine helped another keeper get a very overweight boa back in shape, at least the outer appearance of the snake.

I spoke to Nick Mutton (Inland Reptile) and asked a bit about the metabolic actions in snakes.

Unfortunately there are no real studies on the subject regarding fat metabolism.

I would assume that the winter break I give my adults allows their bodies to metabolize some reserve, fat energy but I don't know how much. Another assumption is that exercise may assist in the metabolism of fat.

I mentioned earlier that our captive prey is more fatty than wild prey. I am a strong advocate of quail for variety. They are certainly less fatty than rats.

Having said all of that, there are hundreds of keepers that have boas that are older than my 11 year old. I consider 11 years old a young adult. I don't know what or how everybody feeds. I do know Gus Rentfro had a female boa over 20 years old that was still producing healthy litter. Gus used to run Rio Bravo Reptiles and is a good friend of Vincent Russo. Both experts in the boa constrictor filed.

Keepers have different ways of doing things. I adopted what I think makes the most sense. Gus Rentfro's seasonal feeding schedule seems to work well for me.


A quote from Gus Rentfro went something like this.

"It is almost impossible to underfeed a boa constrictor and entirely too easy to overfeed one".

Thank you, Bogertophis and Gio. While external appearance may not be fully indicative of health, it's probably the best we can go off of, along with making sure the prey items offered aren't excessively fatty. I agree that Gus Rentfro is a trustworthy source of guidance, and I myself have used Vin Russo's book as a guideline for shifting my boa feeding schedule into a more seasonal pattern.

The exercise component makes sense too. I have basking shelves and perch rods for them to climb in their enclosures (and it is amusing to watch how they negotiate the perch rods in a way that is very different from truly arboreal snakes like GTPs). However, I wonder what else would strike a good balance of providing them more opportunities for physical activity without causing them too much excess stress.

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

...I wonder what else would strike a good balance of providing them more opportunities for physical activity without causing them too much excess stress.

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You should dump the nice furniture, plant some trees*, sturdy shrubs, & put in a fresh water pool with rock ledges.. *Might need a skylight for sunlight too. :D ;)