Newbie That just needs some advice about how to progress with a stubborn eater

So I recently purchased a 1-month-old pie/banana ball python (male) on 8/7/2021. Talked to the breeder he said he had eaten live mouse hoppers consistently 3 times. I took him home the same day and waited till Thursday of that week to feed him for the first time. I tried f/t and he struck but wasn't interested, tried again on Saturday and left him alone with it after he didn't take and I took him out and weighed him he's about 60 grams and is looking a little skinny now on his top side. tried tonight to feed him a live small hopper removed his 2 hides and left the mouse in for 20 mins still didn't take it. he is currently in a 15 q tub with a hide on the hot side and a water bowl hide on the cold side. adv temps on cold are 77F and 85f ambient and an 89-degree basking spot and using paper towels for sub. I have been monitoring temps since I have got him and his behavior is normal he sleeps all day and comes around at night. I have been reading as much as a can but just wanna get some input. today marks 11 days since i got him but 60 grams is skinny and I'm a little bit worried. what do you guys think is the best course of action?

depends...you usually leave them alone for about a week before doing anything with them. Feed them the exact same as when you bought. Wait another day and try again, i don't have much experience with this but that's what i'd do.

Do u think I should leave him alone again for a week and then try? I'm a little nervous about his weight.

a week wouldn't be good, not saying anything is "bad" but be watching the weight, that's good that you're doing that. Just saying when/if you get a new snake leave them alone for a week. Just wait a day to feed but make sure it's the exact same food as when you bought him.

Sometimes it can take new arrivals a while to get on track with eating. It sounds like your temps are good so just let the snake settle in and get hungry. Since it’s a BP the most important thing is to get him eating. You can transition to f/t later. If you have good access to live prey I’d offer a small feeder every 7-14 days. Offering food too often will sometimes stress them out even more and cause more refusals. If he doesn’t eat live you can also try fresh killed. He’ll eat eventually. The hunger always wins in the end. Best wishes with your new critter and please keep us posted on your progress.

everything ziggy said was good. Yea temps are good, i don't know about my snake not eating, she'll eat mice, rats, live fresh killed, she's really good. Hope your snake gets to be like mine, could i see pics of yours, i have a thing for pieds, especially banana pieds :)

so I shouldn't worry about him not eating and just wait another 7 days from today? I can post pictures of him tom afternoon. i just kinda wanna get an idea of when i really need to be worried

with your situation, i'd try every day or every two days. When your snake is eating you just feed every week. the pics will help tell what the urgency is. Don't be worried yet, just be cautious/observant but the pics will help to tell what you need to do

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Originally Posted by DatBoiAJ_

with your situation, i'd try every day or every two days. When your snake is eating you just feed every week. the pics will help tell what the urgency is. Don't be worried yet, just be cautious/observant but the pics will help to tell what you need to do

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DO NOT try to feed your new hatchling every day or two if he/she is refusing. You are just going to stress the snake out more. Wait a week since you last tried to feed, leave him or her alone and try again with a live mouse hopper


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like i said don't have much experience.. listen to this guy :)

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only reason i said 1-2 days is because its a 60 gram snake

so the best course of action would be to just another 7 days without bothering him and then try again ? will post pictures soon waiting on a friend to send them over from when i weighed him.

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Originally Posted by skreetboy

so the best course of action would be to just another 7 days without bothering him and then try again ? will post pictures soon waiting on a friend to send them over from when i weighed him.

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Correct. Your little guy will come around eventually, he just needs some time to adjust and destress.

sounds good to me i’ll be sure to post the pictures and keep everyone updated on what’s going on but i’m not gonna mess with him at all and try to offer him a live hopper next Wednesday. i appreciate everyone helping me out and replying it means a lot:).

Also forgot to mention this but I noticed in your initial post that you mentioned removing the hides for one of the feeding attempts. Do not do this. Ball pythons are ambush hunters and prefer to strike from a hiding place, and I know with mine he also tends to drag his meals into a hide to eat in privacy. Your snake is already skittish and nervous enough to not eat, so it's important that he has that security at all times.

No handling the snake until it's settled in & feeding reliably (at least 3+ times for a hatchling- more is better, safer). Weighing a snake IS "handling"...don't do it! The time to weigh was right when you got him home & had to handle anyway. After that, not until he's settled in & feeding, or you can put him off eating at all. Eating is "job #1". Do NOT handle. Same goes for taking pictures- that can wait until your new snake is feeding reliably, not just after one meal.

Many new snakes (of any age) won't eat right away, in the first week or more. They need time, & LOTS of privacy. New homes are very scary for them.

Feed EXACTLY what the snake was eating before you got them- make no changes until they're feeding reliably. If live, then feed live. If mouse, feed mouse. If rat, feed rat, as rodents all smell & (presumably) taste different.

Hatchlings are still learning & need to focus on just being a snake- feeling safe & secure, & learning to deal with prey- NOT with humans. So try to stay out of their way- keep their enclosure in a quiet place, block their "view" if needed. Avoid making adjustments to their home unless essential- the time to do that was before the snake arrived. Make sure the hides are the right size ("snug") so the snake feels safely hidden.

If food is refused, don't keep offering right away- that adds to their stress & almost guarantees a failure. For a thin hatchling, wait at least 4-5 days before a retry; otherwise, wait a week or more before you try to feed again. Feed only at night, in dim light. Try not to be noticeable.

BPs are ambush-predators (as noted above)- they won't likely accept food when out in the "open" moving around in their home. The best time to offer prey is when they're peeking out of their hide in the evening/night hours, because this is their version of "hunting". They have their own predators to worry about too.

Above all be patient- & remember that eating is job #1 for a baby snake. :welcome:

thanks for the great advice both hides fit him well and he uses both. I'm gonna try again next week to feed him a live hopper.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...NR?usp=sharing here's a link to a photo of him.

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Originally Posted by skreetboy

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...NR?usp=sharing here's a link to a photo of him.

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He's a handsome little guy. :love: And just be patient with him- you'll get there, & have many years to enjoy handling him & getting to know him better. ;)

Thanks so much!! yeah, I got worried after a week and wanted to get his weight, rookie mistake:tears: but I'm leaving him be till next Wednesday then at night ill feed live hopper. should I take out his water bowl or just leave everything the way it is?

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Originally Posted by skreetboy

Thanks so much!! yeah, I got worried after a week and wanted to get his weight, rookie mistake:tears: but I'm leaving him be till next Wednesday then at night ill feed live hopper. should I take out his water bowl or just leave everything the way it is?

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Leave his water bowl. You’ll also have higher success if you feed in a room with little to no light. Also sitting there watching them doesn’t help either lol


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Originally Posted by skreetboy

Thanks so much!! yeah, I got worried after a week and wanted to get his weight, rookie mistake:tears: but I'm leaving him be till next Wednesday then at night ill feed live hopper. should I take out his water bowl or just leave everything the way it is?

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With a live hopper, things might get messy if you leave the water bowl in- I can see why you asked- hoppers can be rather active, so yes, it might be a good idea to remove the water bowl just for the time being so it's not accidentally spilled. I would remove it in the morning actually- so you aren't reaching in & disturbing your BP right before you try to feed him that night. He'll be fine for the day without water, & this is just because he's already a bit stressed & needing to eat- we want to make sure he does. :gj: If he eats, you can put the bowl back in right after.

I know many on here talk often about weighing their snakes, but just focus on him eating regularly for you for the time being. Young snakes that are eating young prey don't really gain weight very fast anyway, & it's best not to risk disturbing his appetite by handling to weigh. We've all made "rookie mistakes"- don't beat yourself up- we're here to help you avoid all that we know about -from "experience", lol. ;)

thanks so much I'm not gonna bother him at all till I try to feed him I also covered up all sides of the tub beside one. he hasn't had a meal in 2 weeks at this point and hasn't eaten for me at all. he typically sleeps all day some times gets up and romes around for a bit occasionally. at night he's more active no fast movement. but sometimes he tries to climb up the sides of the tub should I be worried about that? it's not constant but sometimes.

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Originally Posted by skreetboy

thanks so much I'm not gonna bother him at all till I try to feed him I also covered up all sides of the tub beside one. he hasn't had a meal in 2 weeks at this point and hasn't eaten for me at all. he typically sleeps all day some times gets up and roams around for a bit occasionally. at night he's more active no fast movement. but sometimes he tries to climb up the sides of the tub should I be worried about that? it's not constant but sometimes.

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His behavior is normal under the circumstances: in nature, snakes learn their way around, so when they move into a new home, it's frightening & confusing- they have no way to understand what happened to the place they knew before, & they try to find it. Just be patient- he needs time to settle in & feel safe where he is now. Fear is an appetite-suppressant- so anything you can do to make him feel safe & relaxed is a good thing, like covering the sides to block much of his view, & letting him rest. :gj:

Snakes are not visually-oriented: they see motion but it's a question of "prey or predator?" for them, they don't identify things based on vision alone*- they need other cues (scent, touch, heat) to know what they're dealing with- which is also why snakes don't seem to know if prey will actually "fit" until they subdue it & try to eat it- sometimes it's too big & all they can do is move on & try again. This is also why, when you walk by a hungry snake that's in a cage of some sort, don't take it personal if they seem to think your motion means you're edible prey & chase you (your motion) thru the glass. ;) They don't literally want "you" for dinner- they just don't understand what they're seeing without the scent & touch cues.

Remember too that baby snakes are still learning- they're born with instincts, but must learn by practicing their skills. The best thing we can do for them is provide the right home environment & be patient while they get the hang of eating, without the distraction of any handling.

I really can't thank you enough!!!:D just wanna make sure my little guy has the best possible situation by any means!

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Originally Posted by skreetboy

I really can't thank you enough!!!:D just wanna make sure my little guy has the best possible situation by any means!

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You just did- :D I love snakes & enjoy helping new keepers get them figured out, so you both have the best experience. I've been keeping snakes for many years, & when I got started, there wasn't a forum like this to ask questions- I wish there had been. It's just so much easier to keep snakes healthy than to get them well again once they get sick from poor care. You're most welcome. ;)

quick update i got a small camera to watch him without him seeing me and i noticed that he romes around a lot more then i thought sometimes he tries to go up and escape sometimes he just romes around. the only thing i’m worried about is sometimes he tries to get u get the paper towel and he rubs is face on the side to try and pick it up should i be worried? or same thing with the last time

It sounds like he's just exploring his "limits" and as long as he's not injuring himself, I wouldn't worry- he's still "new" & likely this behavior will diminish.

Just try to make sure there's nothing too sharp or abrasive that he might get hurt on- good idea on the camera, btw. :gj:

ok sounds good he used to try and stick his nose through this one hole but i put paper towels so he can’t anymore he’s moved his one hide up a little bit by going behind it’s taking everything in me to leave tit and not fix it but he needs his time

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Originally Posted by skreetboy

ok sounds good he used to try and stick his nose through this one hole but i put paper towels so he can’t anymore he’s moved his one hide up a little bit by going behind it’s taking everything in me to leave it and not fix it but he needs his time

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Some snakes are pretty pushy about rearranging their homes- especially while they're settling in.

Bogertophis has has probably covered everything you need to know here, and by far has superior experience to myself but I'll offer up my experiences as a fellow BP amateur.

I've been keeping BP's at a low level for circa. 5 years and have recently been successful with my first clutch (I'm very excited and pleased about this ;) )

With my small collection of BP's, I have experienced feeding concerns at adult stage, 'teenage' stage and more recently, with a snakelet a bit smaller than yours (beautiful animal by the way, love the look on pieds).

Another thing here is I only feed frozen thawed. Live feeding isn't legal here, but I do know it is accessible if the snakes life depends on it. Thankfully, I've never got that far!

So with my two adults, my male is the nightmare eater having gone near 6 months without a feed. This gets extremely worrying, but as long as his weight doesn't drop by 10% or more, and he's not showing any signs illness, I.e. wheezing, salivating, lethargy etc, I change his feeding pattern from fortnightly to monthly. He's also a shy eater, so is best left alone with absolutely no other traffic in the room. Every year I've had a dry spell with him around breeding season but he's always kicked back in.
My female is a beast, eats a size up to the male and would smash one every week if I offered it to her (I do occasionally depending on how active she appears) but is also fed bi-weekly as an adult.

My middle two, a pastel spotnose and blue eyes lucy have both had 'dry' spells.
The spotnose I've had since he was just over 100g and has just recently passed 600g so hoping to pair him this season if he keeps gaining nicely and is offered a feed every week.
The BEL was a bit older when I got her and won't be paired for a few years yet.
But the spotnose just decided he didn't want to eat for a number of weeks, and the BEL was obviously distracted by her new surroundings. After 4 weeks of no weekly takes for both of them, I changed from normal rats to multi rats (rats native to Africa) - this has never failed me and after a few multi feeds, I switch back to normal rats. The multi's always seem to work magically and kick their feeding back in.

With my hatchlings, one of the ten hadn't fed 4 weeks post shed. This was where I had to assist feed. I didn't want to get to this point, but thankfully, as soon as I put the rat fluffs head in the snakelets mouth, pulled it back a bit so it latched, the feeding instinct seemed to kick in and the little beauty coiled and constricted, ate the fluff and has smashed feeds every week since.

With the snakelets, I tend to offer a feed every 5-6 days and intend on bringing the hold back in line with my weekly feeds when he goes a size up soon enough.

Other things I consider during feeding times;

Shed - if they're in shed, they'll likely reject food until they've successfully shed their skin. The snakelets don't necessarily follow this rule though!

Handling - I never handle on feeding days.

Feeding time - evenings seem best, as the light diminishes. Again, snakelets don't seem to be bothered with me but the older BP's are always more keen as this is more in line with their natural behaviour and feeding instinct.

Privacy - once they're constricting, leave them have some privacy to enjoy their meals. Spectators may put them off eating and they'll easily get distracted and leave their food.

What I hope to have done here is offer scenarios that work for me and may offer you considerations in finding an outcome that works best for you.

And again, there's already great advice being offered in your thread from some very experienced keepers some of which I have seen comment on many posts and have learned from and continue to learn from.

The key thing I think I've learned over the past few years of keeping BP's is there's no exact science and you'll need to establish what works for the individual and be willing to adapt to suit their needs.

Good luck.

Ok guys, tomorrow is the day! i’m gonna take out his water in the morning and try to feed him around 9pm. do you guys have any suggestions on anything i should do or procedure it would greatly help me! i’m gonna go get the smallest live hopper they sell at my local pet store tomorrow afternoon.

Dim the lights in the room (his enclosure should not be light either). Try to minimize your presence- don't move much (or quickly)- observe from a distance (don't "hover"). And say :please:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Dim the lights in the room (his enclosure should not be light either). Try to minimize your presence- don't move much (or quickly)- observe from a distance (don't "hover"). And say :please:

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My interpretation:

The big day is finally here. Don’t be nervous. Have a glass of wine (or a shot) with your “can do” attitude, dim the lights, maybe even put on some soothing music, get that prey item nice and warm, introduce the mouse to the snake, leave the two alone, and let nature take it’s course. 😎

hahaha thankyou guys so much for all the advice!! i’ll keep everyone posted on what’s happening.

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Originally Posted by skreetboy

hahaha thankyou guys so much for all the advice!! i’ll keep everyone posted on what’s happening.

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So...? I'm interested!

HE TOOK IT!!!! sorry for the wait i wanted to make sure he was fine and wasent gonna throw it up before i said anything. i would like to thanks everyone for helping me. These past 2 weeks haven’t been the best for me. My grandfather passed away last week and college starting up, all that stress was added on to me already worried about my little guy not eating. all of your kind words and good advice helped me so much during this hard time!!! My appreciation to you guys can not be explained in words of i could i would give all of you a hug!!! thankyou thankyou thankyou for helping me out and keeping me spirits high.https://ball-pythons.net/forums/blob...a-0f3f2634638a

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Originally Posted by skreetboy

HE TOOK IT!!!! sorry for the wait i wanted to make sure he was fine and wasn't gonna throw it up before I said anything. i would like to thanks everyone for helping me. These past 2 weeks haven’t been the best for me. My grandfather passed away last week and college starting up, all that stress was added on to me already worried about my little guy not eating. all of your kind words and good advice helped me so much during this hard time!!! My appreciation to you guys can not be explained in words of i could i would give all of you a hug!!! thankyou thankyou thankyou for helping me out and keeping me spirits high.https://ball-pythons.net/forums/blob...a-0f3f2634638a

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AWESOME! :gj: :dance::pinkele::bounce::carrot:

One less thing to worry about is always good. :snake: I'm so sorry about the loss of your grandfather- just remember that we all go through some tough times- hugs back! :grouphug:

All the best in college. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

AWESOME! :gj: :dance::pinkele::bounce::carrot:

One less thing to worry about is always good. :snake: I'm so sorry about the loss of your grandfather- just remember that we all go through some tough times- hugs back! :grouphug:

All the best in college. :cool:

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+1

I’m glad your snake ate but more importantly I wish you all the best in your studies and I’m very sorry about the loss of your grandpa. 🙏🏾✌🏾❤️

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

AWESOME! :gj: :dance::pinkele::bounce::carrot:

One less thing to worry about is always good. :snake: I'm so sorry about the loss of your grandfather- just remember that we all go through some tough times- hugs back! :grouphug:

All the best in college. :cool:

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Boger raided the extended emotes section again I see. :P

Jokes aside glad your snake finally ate, skreetboy. Hopefully things start looking up for the both of you.

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

Boger raided the extended emotes section again I see. :P ...

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There was nothing that prevented you...:D

Thank you so much ziggy appreciated all your kind words!!!

Sorry, I didn't respond sooner been swamped with physics and engineering work but thank you all again for all the help!!!! So I would like to replace the paper towels inside of his enclosure soon should I wait till he eats again or just does it I plan to feed him on Tuesday?

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Originally Posted by skreetboy

Sorry, I didn't respond sooner been swamped with physics and engineering work but thank you all again for all the help!!!! So I would like to replace the paper towels inside of his enclosure soon should I wait till he eats again or just does it I plan to feed him on Tuesday?

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What bedding were you planning on switching to? I normally spot clean and change water for all my snakes 2 days before feeding so I give them plenty of time by themselves before I offer food. I use both paper towel and cocoblox for my snakes and I’ve also used unprinted newspaper in the past so use whats best and most comfortable for you


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I agree with Snow Balls ^ ^ ^ You want your snake feeling safe (ie. no changes) & focused on hunger whenever you feed them, so right before a meal is not the time to make any changes, or handle.

sounds good ill feed him again and then 48+ hours after ill clean his whole enclosure

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Originally Posted by Snow Balls

I use both paper towel and cocoblox for my snakes and I’ve also used unprinted newspaper in the past so use whats best and most comfortable for you

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I have only ever used a decent quality artificial grass for both my BP's and leopard geckos. Cur to size pieces so when I do a deeper clean, I can just roll up the dirty piece, clean as necessary and unroll the fresh, clean piece into place.

It's easy to clean as well. I have used a washing machine with it, but you do tend to fill the machine with little, loose bits of fake grass - I'll also use a hot shower and F10!

Easy to clean, quick to replace.

Hello, I'm back but don't worry I just wanna give you guys an update!
He has eaten for me 5 times now consistently after the 3d time I started with minimal handling and he's great and a very curious little guy. He has such a strong food response now. I always remove the water bowl the morning of the feeding and at night time he is ready and as soon as I let the mouse touch the floor of the enclosure he gets it. thanks again to everyone who helped me out. I'm gonna post pics after the next time I hold him.