30 gallon enosure

Hi everyone,

Question concerning UTH and Ceramic Heat Bulb.

My terra is 36x12.5x15.5 inches

Should I have my heat mat (on thermostat) on one side and my Ceramic Heat Bulb(on dimmer)in the other or both in same side or something completely different. (I have a bunch of thermometers with probes as well that will be going in the tank obviously lol).

Thanks in advance :)

Hard to answer this without knowing the ambient temperatures in your home or room where the enclosure will be: For the most part, you want a warm side & a cool (unheated) side so a snake can choose the temperature they need. The exception would be something like a BP needing a fairly warm temperature range (78-80* cool side & 88-90* max warm side) IF by not heating one side, it will be too cold for the occupant (like if you keep the A/C to the extent that it ends up being 72* or something), then & only then you'd need some minimal heat source to keep the "cool side" at the proper range for your snake.

Otherwise, normally, the heat goes on one end, a second source if needed might be more to the middle, leaving an unheated part (about a third of the floor) for safety & needed thermoregulation for the snake- they need to be able to choose the right temperatures as needed. Make sense? So place the heat sources where they will get you the temps your snake needs- and fully test them for at least a few days before the snake moves in- you might need to move them around again.

It is for a Butter Fire OD Ball Python.

Ambient temp in the room is between 69F and 72.5F

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Hard to answer this without knowing the ambient temperatures in your home or room where the enclosure will be: For the most part, you want a warm side & a cool (unheated) side so a snake can choose the temperature they need. The exception would be something like a BP needing a fairly warm temperature range (78-80* cool side & 88-90* max warm side) IF by not heating one side, it will be too cold for the occupant (like if you keep the A/C to the extent that it ends up being 72* or something), then & only then you'd need some minimal heat source to keep the "cool side" at the proper range for your snake.

Otherwise, normally, the heat goes on one end, a second source if needed might be more to the middle, leaving an unheated part (about a third of the floor) for safety & needed thermoregulation for the snake- they need to be able to choose the right temperatures as needed. Make sense? So place the heat sources where they will get you the temps your snake needs- and fully test them for at least a few days before the snake moves in- you might need to move them around again.

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It is for a Butter Fire OD Ball Python.

Ambient temp in the room is between 69F and 72.5F

So then obviously you're going to need some heat on both ends of this enclosure. No heat added at one end would be too chilly for a BP. Trial & error as to placement, try it & test it for a few days until you get it where it needs to be. (UTH heat tends to build up- you may not see the ultimate temperatures as quickly as would be convenient.)

I live in Montreal Canada so we also have very cold winters lol

ok perfect thank you for the info.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matty88

It is for a Butter Fire OD Ball Python.

Ambient temp in the room is between 69F and 72.5F

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If it was for something like a corn snake, you'd only need some heat at one end, or maybe just in one corner, because they're comfortable at 70-72* ambient in their enclosure for the most part. But BPs need more warmth...

For sure I've done a lot of research just also a lot of mixed info out there....so here's what I was thinking of doing.

Heat pad on cold side to heat substrate to 80F (it will be in a thermostat)

And then

Ceramic Heat Bulb for hot side to get the ambient air up to 88-90F (either on dimmer or pulse proportion thermostat)

Any takes on this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matty88

For sure I've done a lot of research just also a lot of mixed info out there....so here's what I was thinking of doing.

Heat pad on cold side to heat substrate to 80F (it will be in a thermostat)

And then

Ceramic Heat Bulb for hot side to get the ambient air up to 88-90F (either on dimmer or pulse proportion thermostat)

Any takes on this?

---

I agree about the "cold side" but remember that heat rises, so using a heat bulb on the warm side might not be enough to adequately warm the floor (insulating the enclosure could help though). Also, BPs need about 55% humidity (more in shed) so keep in mind that heat bulbs tend to remove a lot of the humidity, according to those using them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I agree about the "cold side" but remember that heat rises, so using a heat bulb on the warm side might not be enough to adequately warm the floor (insulating the enclosure could help though). Also, BPs need about 55% humidity (more in shed) so keep in mind that heat bulbs tend to remove a lot of the humidity, according to those using them.

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Ok good Info.....so what would you suggest for the hot side? A second heat pad and no ceramic heat lamp?

I would put the heat mat on the hot end set to 90 or just above by placing the thermostat probe on the heat mat, and then checking what the temp is inside the enclosure under the substrate. You want it no more than 90 inside.

I would put the CHE near the center, but slightly towards the hot end, set to 84F ambient under it about an inch above substrate and see what temps you get ambient in the hot and cool side. Your ambient shouldn't be 88-90, that's too hot. If the cool side is still under 78, I would slowly move the CHE towards the cold side while turning it down a tad. If the cool side is above 82, I would just turn it down a bit. Any adjustments or movement of the CHE should be done after several hours, as it takes quite some time for everything to stabilize.

If the snake is already in this enclosure, I would start the CHE dimmed to just barely on and slowly turn it up after several hours as needed. Too hot will cause problems a lot faster than too cold.

CHE is not ideal, and if you have the money, RHP (radiant heat panel) is a better choice for ball pythons. It will dry the air a lot less, and won't cause heat spikes like a CHE that is too high wattage will. A dimmer is better than nothing, but as your house ambient changes, it will change how hot the CHE is actually making your enclosure, and is not ideal either. A pulse proportional thermostat is a better way to regulate a CHE that can adjust as needed when you house temp changes.

Ok sounds great thank you,

So, the prob for heat mat thermostat is put between glass and heat mat, then thermometer prob below substrate centered with heat mat. For heat mat is on off thermostat ok?

CHE thermostat prob 1" above substrate centered with CHE

Adjust CHE depending on cold side temps.

Let me know if I got that right.

Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matty88

Ok sounds great thank you,

So, the prob for heat mat thermostat is put between glass and heat mat, then thermometer prob below substrate centered with heat mat. For heat mat is on off thermostat ok?

CHE thermostat prob 1" above substrate centered with CHE

Adjust CHE depending on cold side temps.

Let me know if I got that right.

Thanks

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I would probably move the thermometer probe that you have over your heat mat. Might not be THAT important because it's not controlling anything, but your snake is probably gonna move it, lay on it, pee on it, etc etc and it'll give you incorrect readings. Personally I don't have probes over my heat mat I just check it twice a day with my temp gun to make sure it's doing what it needs to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matty88

Ok sounds great thank you,

So, the prob for heat mat thermostat is put between glass and heat mat, then thermometer prob below substrate centered with heat mat. For heat mat is on off thermostat ok?

CHE thermostat prob 1" above substrate centered with CHE

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Exactly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hugsplox

I would probably move the thermometer probe that you have over your heat mat. Might not be THAT important because it's not controlling anything, but your snake is probably gonna move it, lay on it, pee on it, etc etc and it'll give you incorrect readings. Personally I don't have probes over my heat mat I just check it twice a day with my temp gun to make sure it's doing what it needs to do.

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I agree that snakes tend to move it and get it dirty, but it's a good way to get a reading while first setting things up that is a bit more accurate than using a temp gun, because as soon as you move the substrate to check the bottom of the enclosure, it's exposed to air and cools down so it's not the most accurate way to figure out what the snake would be touching if he burrows. Once everything is set up and stabilized, a temp gun is probably the most useful way to check and that's what I use on established enclosures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

I agree that snakes tend to move it and get it dirty, but it's a good way to get a reading while first setting things up that is a bit more accurate than using a temp gun, because as soon as you move the substrate to check the bottom of the enclosure, it's exposed to air and cools down so it's not the most accurate way to figure out what the snake would be touching if he burrows. Once everything is set up and stabilized, a temp gun is probably the most useful way to check and that's what I use on established enclosures.

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Agreed, sorry I read this like the snake was already in there, I'm worrying about the wrong things obviously lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

I would put the heat mat on the hot end set to 90 or just above by placing the thermostat probe on the heat mat, and then checking what the temp is inside the enclosure under the substrate. You want it no more than 90 inside.

I would put the CHE near the center, but slightly towards the hot end, set to 84F ambient under it about an inch above substrate and see what temps you get ambient in the hot and cool side. Your ambient shouldn't be 88-90, that's too hot. If the cool side is still under 78, I would slowly move the CHE towards the cold side while turning it down a tad. If the cool side is above 82, I would just turn it down a bit. Any adjustments or movement of the CHE should be done after several hours, as it takes quite some time for everything to stabilize.

If the snake is already in this enclosure, I would start the CHE dimmed to just barely on and slowly turn it up after several hours as needed. Too hot will cause problems a lot faster than too cold.

CHE is not ideal, and if you have the money, RHP (radiant heat panel) is a better choice for ball pythons. It will dry the air a lot less, and won't cause heat spikes like a CHE that is too high wattage will. A dimmer is better than nothing, but as your house ambient changes, it will change how hot the CHE is actually making your enclosure, and is not ideal either. A pulse proportional thermostat is a better way to regulate a CHE that can adjust as needed when you house temp changes.

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I've decided this is the method I will use as it really seems like the most ideal for me and the climate I'm in.

So that being said, what size of heat mat would you recommend? An 8x12 or a smaller one?

My terrarium is 36Lx12.5Dx15.5H inches

It's a good rule of thumb to have the heating element no more than 1/3 the size of the enclosure. For this enclosure an 8x12 would work great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erie_herps

It's a good rule of thumb to have the heating element no more than 1/3 the size of the enclosure. For this enclosure an 8x12 would work great.

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Perfect so would you place the 12x8 heat mat so that it covers most of the Length of the tank so 12 out of the 36 inches

Or

So that it covers the depth completely 12" out of the 12"


Hope this makes sense lol it does in my head haha

Cover the 12 of 36 and have the 8 centered on the 12

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matty88

Perfect so would you place the 12x8 heat mat so that it covers most of the Length of the tank so 12 out of the 36 inches

Or

So that it covers the depth completely 12" out of the 12"


Hope this makes sense lol it does in my head haha

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

Cover the 12 of 36 and have the 8 centered on the 12

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I agree with this 100%.

I was think of getting the zoomed 16watt 8x12 UTH

What are your opinions on this specific UTH?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matty88

I was think of getting the zoomed 16watt 8x12 UTH

What are your opinions on this specific UTH?

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I've had a number of these and as long as you have a reliable thermostat they work fine. If the sticky coating stops working (likely it will eventually) just secure back to the bottom of the enclosure with some aluminum tape.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

I've had a number of these and as long as you have a reliable thermostat they work fine. If the sticky coating stops working (likely it will eventually) just secure back to the bottom of the enclosure with some aluminum tape.

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How thick of substrate will this penetrate, I will be using ecoearth mix with some forest floor.

I've also read heating pads are useless and CHE or RHP is all you need.

Any thoughts? Advice?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matty88

How thick of substrate will this penetrate, I will be using ecoearth mix with some forest floor.

I've also read heating pads are useless and CHE or RHP is all you need.

Any thoughts? Advice?

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BPs will push substrate aside to get to the heat of UTH if they want it, you just don't want to go too overboard or you are going to be digging substrate out of the water bowl constantly. For BPs I would not use eco earth personally, because they don't like things humid enough for it to stay damp, and it's going to stick to f/t rodents like crazy and get ingested. I would go with straight forest floor, a coco bark product such as coco blox, or a combo of those. Coco bark has much bigger chunks than coco fiber so it doesn't stick to rodents as bad, and if it does, you can pull off a chunk a lot easier than tons of tiny fibers.

How well each type of heating element works has to do with your climate, enclosure style, and whether or not you have a dedicated reptile room kept at a stable temperature in the right range. In a glass enclosure, you are likely going to need UTH for hot spot, and either RHP or CHE for ambient. I would avoid CHE unless you live in a really humid climate, and even then, you have to get an expensive pulse proportional thermostat for it, not an on/off thermostat. I have a dedicated reptile room in the high 70s, no BPs in glass enclosures, so just UTH only works well for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

BPs will push substrate aside to get to the heat of UTH if they want it, you just don't want to go too overboard or you are going to be digging substrate out of the water bowl constantly. For BPs I would not use eco earth personally, because they don't like things humid enough for it to stay damp, and it's going to stick to f/t rodents like crazy and get ingested. I would go with straight forest floor, a coco bark product such as coco blox, or a combo of those. Coco bark has much bigger chunks than coco fiber so it doesn't stick to rodents as bad, and if it does, you can pull off a chunk a lot easier than tons of tiny fibers.

How well each type of heating element works has to do with your climate, enclosure style, and whether or not you have a dedicated reptile room kept at a stable temperature in the right range. In a glass enclosure, you are likely going to need UTH for hot spot, and either RHP or CHE for ambient. I would avoid CHE unless you live in a really humid climate, and even then, you have to get an expensive pulse proportional thermostat for it, not an on/off thermostat. I have a dedicated reptile room in the high 70s, no BPs in glass enclosures, so just UTH only works well for me.

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I will be using strictly forest floor , just ordered a 24qt bag.

Also I do not have a dedicated reptile room, I will be using CHE and I already have a pulse proportion thermostat so I will be using this in combo.

Right now I don't have my 1.0 Butter Fire OD ball python yet as I'm still in set up mode, will be getting him July 13th, he hatched Mai 31st so he's still not ready. But just with a 150w CHE and pulse proportion thermostat I've managed to get perfect temps, 90 hot spot, ambient of 84 on hot side and 81.3 on cool side.

All this without UTH and in a glass terrarium.

I will be adding substrate tomorrow so I'll be able to balance humidity and tweak it once it's in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matty88

I will be using strictly forest floor , just ordered a 24qt bag.

Also I do not have a dedicated reptile room, I will be using CHE and I already have a pulse proportion thermostat so I will be using this in combo.

Right now I don't have my 1.0 Butter Fire OD ball python yet as I'm still in set up mode, will be getting him July 13th, he hatched Mai 31st so he's still not ready. But just with a 150w CHE and pulse proportion thermostat I've managed to get perfect temps, 90 hot spot, ambient of 84 on hot side and 81.3 on cool side.

All this without UTH and in a glass terrarium.

I will be adding substrate tomorrow so I'll be able to balance humidity and tweak it once it's in.

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Awesome, sounds like you are doing everything right getting it all set up in advance so that you don't have to deal with weird temp swings with him in there. I bet he is gorgeous. Show us some pics after he gets all settled in :)

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/sho...mageuser=85796

Here he is, htch date 31may 2021, I don't have him yet

What a cutie! Absolutely incredible blushing on him and I bet you it's way prettier in person.