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Milk snake nose rubbing?

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  • 06-04-2021, 06:22 PM
    widget
    Milk snake nose rubbing?
    He is a 3 year old Honduran milk snake. He is fed a large mouse every other week and has been eating that way for a year now.

    Cage: 4x2x1 animal plastics
    Temps: 90° hotspot, 80° ambient on the warm side, 76° ambient on the cool side

    This started a month ago, and it coincided with a power outage where my thermostat reset and when it was back on, his temps were about 2° warmer than normal. I thought that was the issue and I fixed the temperature and that solved the issue for a couple of days before he started again. He is only rubbing at night when he is normally active. He has no mites or signs of an RI. He has been in this cage for a few months with no issues previously.

    Is it possible it’s breeding behavior? If so is there any way to stop him? I don’t have any female snakes that he’d smell except a hognose.

    Also, is there any contagious disease that would cause this? Only asking because now every time I see my other snakes out exploring I worry they all have something. The other snakes aren’t nose rubbing though.

    https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/zMsEZfz.jpg
  • 06-04-2021, 06:37 PM
    Ascended
    Re: Milk snake nose rubbing?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by widget View Post
    He is a 3 year old Honduran milk snake. He is fed a large mouse every other week and has been eating that way for a year now.


    Might be his is hungry. He is bigger, and older now. Maybe the same size and frequency of food that he had when smaller is not enough for ever. Maybe try weekly feeds or a larger meal.
    Also maybe check your temperatures with gun.

    In my own personal experience, milk snakes don't exabit that kind if breeding behaviour, (nose rubbing) and little breeding behaviour if not cooled.
    That's just me. Other members will have other advice
  • 06-04-2021, 06:57 PM
    widget
    I have a thermometer/hygrometer and temp gun that I use. Could it be hunger even if he has just eaten the day before?
  • 06-05-2021, 03:30 AM
    KMG
    Could be looking for a female, could be hunger, could be a number of things.

    It's he actually damaging his nose with the rubbing?

    Several of my snakes explore each night and poke around. It's never caused an issue so I let them do their thing. It's always much more likely when they are hungry.

    Maybe try a larger feeder, it feeding weekly so see if that calms him. Then go from there.
  • 06-05-2021, 07:02 AM
    Zincubus
    Re: Milk snake nose rubbing?
    I’d check warm side and cool side surface temps again ... maybe it’s just too warm


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  • 06-05-2021, 07:26 AM
    Ascended
    Re: Milk snake nose rubbing?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by widget View Post
    Could it be hunger even if he has just eaten the day before?

    Yes. If he is still hungry. every two weeks does not seem alot. Its worth a try giving him another one.
    If I am out of the right size food and feed something too small, I have some snakes at the front of the tank hunting for more and taking more the next day
    Also age is not everything, so its a bit difficalt to judge just based on age. Hondurans can get really big compared to other milk snakes. How big is he?
    But like the others say, check the temps all over the enclosure.
  • 06-05-2021, 10:44 AM
    Bogertophis
    Honduran milk snakes get pretty big & he's only 3 years old, so my bet is on hunger AND possibly mate-hunting, since he's mature. Young-ish ​adult colubrids should eat about every 10 days, despite the difficulty of putting that on your human calendar. ;) (Only go to feeding every 2 weeks when they're getting old or if overweight- with him, that's not for a long time yet.) And I really hate to see any of our beautiful pets damage their noses...it can lead to serious medical issues, so try feeding more often.

    His home size sounds fine to me, & I'm assuming you're temps. are being accurately read & that he's not being overheated. Keep in mind that in the wild, they'd have lower temperatures overnight also, whereas in your set-up, that's not happening, & his metabolism is being dictated to by the temperatures you're providing. It's not in his control- he can't get any cooler than 80* to slow down his appetite, it's on you. :snake:

    Without seeing your snake, I can't comment on his body weight or why he'd "still be hungry the day after being fed" but some snakes do stay in "feed mode" that long, & from your feeding "schedule", he's likely being chronically under-fed with regard to his growth & metabolism for the temperatures provided. His body is telling him to keep hunting for food- can you imagine what it's like to be him? -unable to hunt for more because he's restricted to his enclosure.

    No matter how nice we consider our enclosures to be for our snakes, I have to say that when I get the munchies I want to be able to go to my 'fridge/kitchen, & so does he. I'm not saying it's okay to feed him all he can hold, but just do consider his "opinion" on this & give a little to see if that helps. Feed q. 10 days.
  • 06-07-2021, 10:09 PM
    widget
    Sorry I didn’t check back sooner. I took your advice and I gave him a rat for the first meal just to see if that would fill him up and then I will feed mice more frequently after that. His temps also do cool down a bit at night on the cool side. He was back out exploring again the day after eating.

    He is actually injuring his nose. No open wounds yet but he is peeling skin off (the same layer they shed, not a whole piece of skin).

    I am now wondering if it’s possible very regular vibrations could affect him. Because now I am also seeing my other snakes out exploring a lot and unless there’s something contagious that can cause that, there’s only one other common factor and that is that we just had new neighbors move in upstairs and they stomp, jump, and drag stuff around almost constantly all day. It scares me sometimes too with how sudden and loud it is. Somehow early in the morning and in the middle of the night they’re always up there stomping. The cages are pressed against two walls so the snakes might be feeling that. I can try moving them a couple inches out from the wall.

    Here is a picture of him from a couple weeks ago.
    https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/qw4V2Ha.jpg
  • 06-07-2021, 10:13 PM
    widget
    Also can anyone tell me if they know of anything contagious that would cause them all to act strange like that? They are all relatively active species of snakes but I’m now seeing them all out exploring at once which is unusual for them. It’s causing me a lot of anxiety.

    I also don’t think it’s because they’re smelling other snakes (unless it’s in combination with needing to feed them rodents more often and also smelling snakes). 3/4 of them eat snakes in the wild (the other two are a Florida king and woma python) but they’ve been in stacked cages for quite a while with no issue. The fourth is a hognose and she has definitely never cared about smelling them in the same room.
  • 06-07-2021, 10:25 PM
    Bogertophis
    Wow, he's gorgeous! :eyepoppin And he doesn't appear to be under-fed to me- he looks good, but maybe a little hefty. Scales should over-lap each other- & unless my eyes deceive me, I'm seeing some spaces showing, but it's hard to say at this distance, & body curves don't count, btw- I'm looking at the portion at far right in photo that appears to be straight, & then the photo is cut off.

    YES, vibrations are felt keenly by snakes- & that could very well be causing their distress. I know of nothing "contagious" that would elicit similar behavior. One thing you might try doing (short of moving, lol) is to buy high-density foam weather-stripping from a hardware store- it's sold in flat spiral rolls with peel-& stick backing on one side, making it very easy to apply to the bottom edges of your enclosures to help absorb the vibrations. And DEFINITELY move the cages away from the walls.
  • 06-09-2021, 01:24 PM
    Zincubus
    Re: Milk snake nose rubbing?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by widget View Post
    Sorry I didn’t check back sooner. I took your advice and I gave him a rat for the first meal just to see if that would fill him up and then I will feed mice more frequently after that. His temps also do cool down a bit at night on the cool side. He was back out exploring again the day after eating.

    He is actually injuring his nose. No open wounds yet but he is peeling skin off (the same layer they shed, not a whole piece of skin).

    I am now wondering if it’s possible very regular vibrations could affect him. Because now I am also seeing my other snakes out exploring a lot and unless there’s something contagious that can cause that, there’s only one other common factor and that is that we just had new neighbors move in upstairs and they stomp, jump, and drag stuff around almost constantly all day. It scares me sometimes too with how sudden and loud it is. Somehow early in the morning and in the middle of the night they’re always up there stomping. The cages are pressed against two walls so the snakes might be feeling that. I can try moving them a couple inches out from the wall.

    Here is a picture of him from a couple weeks ago.
    https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/qw4V2Ha.jpg


    That has spectacular coloration !!

    What’s the type/morph ... I’ll add it to my wanted list :)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  • 06-09-2021, 05:19 PM
    WrongPython
    Re: Milk snake nose rubbing?
    That's a gorgeous snake you have there! If I may make a guess as to morph... hypo tangerine?

    I wanted to back up what was said earlier about feeding and hunting. I had a rubbing/pushing problem with my Sonoran boa last year that -- in hindsight -- seems to have been due to me not keeping up with her growth and caloric needs. For several months, she would start rubbing/pushing her face on her enclosure door not long after a feed in an effort to get out and hunt, to the point that she started developing a rub on her snout. This quickly came to an end when I upped her feeder size. Nowadays, I use any incidents of pushing or looking to get out as a cue to feed her, provided her body's had enough time to wind down from her last meal. My other boa has also started exhibiting similar behavior since he started a growth spurt, and it similarly goes away as soon as I feed him.

    If your snake's rubbing always starts a few days after a meal, then that's a good cue that it may be hunger and hunting related. Try shortening your feeding intervals and upping feeder size like the others mentioned. If you're worried about him getting overweight with shorter feeding intervals, offering leaner foods like quail or chicks might not be a bad idea. A foraging exercise or feeder puzzle within his enclosure may also help if he's one of those snakes that doesn't readily come out of "hunt/feed mode." Lori Torrini has stuff related to this on her YouTube channel.

    Seasonality may also be playing a role here. If temperatures have started getting summer-warm near you, your snake probably picked up on it. All of my snakes have been a little more lively and hungry as my weather warmed.

    Good luck! I hope you find some resolution soon.
  • 06-12-2021, 08:54 PM
    widget
    Thank you everyone for the help! Yes he is a hypo tangerine. I have to say the picture is edited slightly. I just brightened it because it was taken in bad lighting, but some people were upset that I may have been trying to make people think he’s more colorful than he actually is. Definitely not my intentions though, I just prefer brighter pictures (and I would say he actually does look that colorful in bright natural lighting).

    I think the neighbors upstairs making so much noise was the issue. I just moved the cages away from the wall and after a couple of days it seems they have all gone back to normal. I will update if they start again.

    He is my shyest/most easily stressed snake so it makes sense that he was the most affected. I’ll keep an eye on his nose to make sure he doesn’t need antibiotics.
  • 06-12-2021, 10:46 PM
    WrongPython
    Re: Milk snake nose rubbing?
    I've heard that Honduran milk snakes are on the shy side; it wouldn't surprise me that the excessive noise from your neighbors ar what upset him. Good luck moving forward!

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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