BP 350 grams at 3 months. normal or not?

So, I bought a female BP pastave GHI and when she arrived she was HUGE, 350 grams at 3 months old. Can this be normal?
and if hypothetically she had been POWERFED by the breeder for a couple of months, has the damage been done? Will she live a short life?

Note: I asked the breeder and they said she was fed once a week, but please humor me and give your thoughts about the hypothetical situation stated above.

It's pretty big for 3 mos, but not unheard of. My experience is that feeding heavy the first 6 months will not cause long term problems. What exactly powerfeeding is can be debated. I wouldn't worry too much about her weight, and instead worry about her shape, and correct it SLOWLY if need be. Sometimes hatchlings are born much larger than average. Sometimes hatchlings have an insane metabolism and growth compared to the average. You have to take your individual snake into account.

If you were to take a cross section of your snake, it should be pretty close to an equilateral triangle with somewhat curved sides. If it's more like the letter D on its side, or worse, an O, there is way too much fat reserves. Stick with weekly feeding, but I would feed something smaller than what you would normally feed one that size until she is the correct shape. It could take a long time.

I love this chart for a visual. :)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f42b352b68.jpg

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The chart above should tell you if its been power fed.
However, if its not overweight, the age you were told it was may be wrong. Its possible. Mistakes happen.

Based on the chart, she is still triangular like row 2, but her tail does have a very slight sudden taper like row 3. I am leaning towards somewhere between row 2 "good" and row 3 "overweight". But it is closer to row 2. Either she really is a grower or maybe DOB was wrong. Thanks for the help guys. I know for sure that she is nowhere near obese or power fed.

How old do you think she is again? What is she eating lol.

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Her tail may be that way because she has to poop. See if it changes after she goes. If not, I'd definitely stick with pups a bit longer rather than moving her up to weaned, she is right on the cusp of the two sizes.

I might still need help with this issue. After a couple more feedings and further observation, i have noticed something odd with this BP that might be overweight.
So here are the details. She is about 320 grams now and i feed her rats 10% of her weight to get her skinnier.

1.My normal healthy BP (BP1) is 266 grams and about the same length as the BP I suspect to be overweight at 320grams (BP2), but BP2 is way thicker and has more girth.
2.BP1 strikes her prey and then coils it with her whole body. the BP that I suspect to be overweight (BP2) strikes the prey and then only coils the prey wth her upper body like it can not bend or curve her midsection.
3.If i take my rectangular plastic hide off of BP 1, I would find her coiled in a circular manner, whereas BP2 would coil in a rectangular manner following the shape of rectangular the plastic hide, again as if she cant bend her girthy midsection
4. The slight sudden taper at the tail of BP2 remains (see above posts), it was not her about to poop

These are the details I have observed after the initial thread post. Let me know your thoughts. If we go by the chart at post number 3 above. I would say the snake fits the description of "overweight" (row 3 out of 6). But her midsection is pretty round and I can not see the spine pointing upwards, not to the point where i can see cleavage tho like in rows 4 to 6. I need your thoughts on this guys. Thanks

https://ibb.co/qL6hkJN
https://ibb.co/WgT34BP

BP1 healthy is the pastel yb
BP2 suspected overweight is pastave GHI
Note: today is feeding day, both BPs in the pics have a whole rat in them right now still.

Slight tangent but this Royal is 350 grams ...

Tyson Fury the 6’9” world champion boxer was only 460g at birth !!

He was a couple of months premature and not expected to survive !!


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Originally Posted by JAGpenguin

https://ibb.co/qL6hkJN
https://ibb.co/WgT34BP

BP1 healthy is the pastel yb
BP2 suspected overweight is pastave GHI
Note: today is feeding day, both BPs in the pics have a whole rat in them right now still.

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Yes, I agree that BP2 is overweight. And your PM description of her feeding style (only coiling with her neck because her midsection is too girthy) is a good & accurate observation. Unfortunately snakes do not do weight-reduction diets very well- it's very hard to get them to lose the fat & it often shortens their lifespan (from things like fatty liver disease etc).

Your goal should be not allowing her to get even more overweight- she still needs to eat, but gradually lengthen the time between meals & keep the meals small. Do not feed any rodents (either rats or mice) that are "old breeders" as they're high fat, & not what she should be eating. By the same token, rodents that are young (just weaned or younger) are also high-fat, so choose the smallest lean adult rodents to feed her- if she'll take mice, that might be preferable since the adults are smaller than rats by far, but BPs often have preferences & accept only one or the other.

Were you planning to breed these snakes?

Have they gone poo? And have you felt their bodies? Like checking for kinks maybe.

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No breeding, I only buy females. I received BP2 overweight like that from the breeder. They even claimed that she is just 3 months old when i bought her. Right now I am feeding her weekly rats at around 33 grams (10% weight)
At an age that young, can i really not reverse the negative effects of being overweight? I put each BP in 36x18 terra with half logs they use for climbing and working out. I dont put them in tubs where they can barely move.

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Originally Posted by cuddlykhajiit

Have they gone poo? And have you felt their bodies? Like checking for kinks maybe.

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They poo weekly and i do inspection on their bodies to look for lumps and stuff like that. Both have normal bodies.

Can you get your hands on African Soft furs?

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Originally Posted by cuddlykhajiit

Can you get your hands on African Soft furs?

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What's different about this particular rodent? I can look for them

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Originally Posted by JAGpenguin

What's different about this particular rodent? I can look for them

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Lower fat compared to rats. It's what they would eat if they were in the wild.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JAGpenguin

No breeding, I only buy females. I received BP2 overweight like that from the breeder. They even claimed that she is just 3 months old when i bought her. Right now I am feeding her weekly rats at around 33 grams (10% weight)
At an age that young, can i really not reverse the negative effects of being overweight? I put each BP in 36x18 terra with half logs they use for climbing and working out. I dont put them in tubs where they can barely move.

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Poor gal appears "power-fed" to me. :( I would NOT feed her weekly- first go to 10 days a few times, then 2 weeks- see how that goes.

The larger accommodations should help some, but BPs aren't natural athletes anyway. If she doesn't hate it, you might try having her swim (while supported by you) "in place" in shallow water, either in a bathtub or "kiddie pool". But it might stress her excessively- so don't over-do it, IF you actually try it. Much depends on a snake's own personality + how calm you can keep her.

Yes, it helps that she's young, & the reason I asked about your plans to breed is that it "takes a lot out of" female snakes when they produce eggs or young, but I am NOT suggesting that you just breed her for that purpose- not at all. I'd say it might also be risky- I only wondered if that was your intention. It's better that she's not in a tub (I'm not a fan of using tubs to house snakes anyway) but how much she'll move around on her own remains to be seen- especially from what you said about her constriction "style".

I would say find some stuff for her to climb on and stuff it in her enclosure. That way it's her choice. Some people say they don't climb but we'll... Murphy thinks he's arboreal lol and he does this a lot.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fa2c95271f.jpg

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Thank you both. Both BP1 and BP2 are curious individuals. They roam around 7pm to 10pm. BP2 explores every nook and cranny and usually chills on top of a half-log resin hide. She never hides there, too exposed. I put the halg-log in anyway for climbing purposes. I also put XL plastic hides that are too big for them, so that they can climb on those too. The hides that they actually use as hides right now are medium rectangular black plastic hides.

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Originally Posted by JAGpenguin

Thank you both. Both BP1 and BP2 are curious individuals. They roam around 7pm to 10pm. BP2 explores every nook and cranny and usually chills on top of a half-log resin hide. She never hides there, too exposed. I put the halg-log in anyway for climbing purposes. I also put XL plastic hides that are too big for them, so that they can climb on those too. The hides that they actually use as hides right now are medium rectangular black plastic hides.

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They sound like they're in good hands with you. :snake:

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Originally Posted by JAGpenguin

Thank you both. Both BP1 and BP2 are curious individuals. They roam around 7pm to 10pm. BP2 explores every nook and cranny and usually chills on top of a half-log resin hide. She never hides there, too exposed. I put the halg-log in anyway for climbing purposes. I also put XL plastic hides that are too big for them, so that they can climb on those too. The hides that they actually use as hides right now are medium rectangular black plastic hides.

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That's good, I agree with slowly reduced feeds. If you switch to asf it takes two weeks of digestion and poops are smaller. :)

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Honestly, both of them look overweight to me, the 2nd is just a lot more overweight. I would slow down the feeding a bit and switch to mice that are freshly weaned. Soft furs are more ideal in a perfect world but they can be a lot more expensive or extremely hard to find, and I wouldn't swap to them unless you know for sure you can have a steady supply with how hard BPs are to switch foods sometimes.

So, the guy I bought BP2 (pastel mojave GHI) from...I found him shady some time ago. He spams the internet with pics of his friends' BPs and then sells them at inflated prices, if someone buys from him, he would buy from one of his friends and then sell it to you. Basically just a shady middleman, and his friends do not know that he is doing this. I have seen his personal BPs in person, did not have anything special. When he sold the Pastel Mojave GHI to me, the DOB was wrong.

Here is what I did. I figured the number and shape of the stripes of this morph is like a fingerprint and no 2 Pastave GHIs would have the same stripes. Then I went to all online shops that sell snakes in my country and compare the stripes of all female Pastave GHis with the stripes of my own BP2. The OCD detective work paid off because I found one with identical stripes. I tracked down the original breeder and he said he was surprised that I have it but confirmed that BP2 was his, He said the really loved her and took care of her personally since hatched and expected me to do the same, and I was like,"Sure thing bro".

So the real numbers for BP2 are these: Female Pastave GHI, 320 grams now, 7 months old. I am going to follow Bogertophis' and Nikkubus' advice by reducing the feeding frequency because I am afraid if I switch to another rodent, switching back to rats will be difficult in the future, and I cant find ASF rats anyway. But the situation needs to be reassessed as well given the real numbers mentioned above.

@nikkubus I swear BP1 isnt overweight, I took the pics on feeding day, that is a whole rat in her facing the camera. She is much skinnier than that really. :)

Ah, that makes sense then. I'd still be a bit careful though because there are areas away from the stomach portion that scales are starting to spread which is one thing I really watch for to determine overfeeding. You want them to have a nice overlap.

Flipping is not uncommon around here, and you have to be very careful with quarantine when dealing with people like that. Claiming you bred something that you bought is pretty unethical and I don't blame you for losing trust in that guy. I bet the actual breeder is glad she landed a home with someone who cares about her health :)

Good "detective work"! :gj: