Not eating, underweight ball python

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/sho...hp?i=60224&c=3I have an enchi ivory het clown male ball python that I picked up on December 6th, 2020. On the Certificate of Origin, it states his birthday is July 8, 2020 however, when I contacted the seller again regarding a different snake, he told me the birthday for this boy was actually August 11, 2020. I mentioned the discrepancy but he didn't really address it in a clear way and said "it's not that important" so I dropped it. Anyway, that means that he (his name is Platano) is at least 7 months old, maybe 8.

When I received him, I weighed him and he was only 72 grams. I fed him every 5 days for a few months until he got a bit over 150 grams, then I switched to every 7 days, like my other snakes. He was eating really well for me until recently, striking almost immediately when I'd offer him food. I should mention, he was on live mice before I got him and I feed f/t rats. Didn't really have a problem switching him over to f/t rats either.

Recently he's not being eating as consistently. Like 6 weeks ago, since he was starting to get bigger, I tried to feed him two 10g rats. He ate both just fine. The next week I tried to feed him a bigger rat (~15g) and then another small baby rat (10g) after but he only ate the first one. The next week I tried to feed him just one 23g rat and he wouldn't eat. If I remember correctly, that was the first time I offered him a rat with fur on it. So, since I was still concerned about his weight, I opted to go back to a 5 day feeding schedule. After 5 days, I tried his "usual" smaller one with no fur of about 18g. If I remember correctly, I don't think he ate again.

Then, when I was feeding my other five snakes four days later, my other boy didn't eat his because he was in shed. So just to see basically, I tried offering the rat to Platano since he was due to eat the following day anyway. I planned to stop if he didn't immediatehttps://ball-pythons.net/gallery/sho...hp?i=60224&c=3ly take it, so as not to stress him out but to my surprise, he actually ate it! This was a 38g rat btw, and Platano had was 190g at the time so the rat was 20% of his bodyweight. I considered myself lucky to get so much food in him and I left him alone and everything was fine, he didn't regurge or anything. Since I thought he was fine again I decided to go back to a 7 day feeding schedule.

The next time, I offered around a 25g rat. He didn't eat but he was in shed so I figured that's why. I waited a week, offered a 23g rat. He didn't eat again. Waited 5 days (didn't wait a week because I'm concerned he's still underweight) and that brings us to today. Offered a similar size rat (with fur) again, and he still wouldn't eat. I have 5 other snakes all in the same room, same temps, same humidity and they eat just fine. After he didn't eat 5 days ago, I added 2 paper towel rolls to his enclosure to give him more clutter and hopefully make him feel more secure. I also added a scrunched up paper towel in each hide to make them feel smaller and more secure. He is in a clear bin but three out of the four sides of the shelf he's on are enclosed. So also five days ago, I cut a piece of cardboard and placed it in the front so now he's enclosed on all four sides.

I don't handle him at all anymore except to clean his enclosure/weigh him. I feed inside the enclosure. I have a temp gun that I use to make sure the rats are the right temp. I thaw overnight in the fridge, warm up in a ziploc bag in warm water and then blast the head of the rat with the hair dryer. I'm not sure why he's not eating and I'm worried because like I said, I think he's underweight. I will add a picture so you can see. He has a hide on both the cool and warm side. I have a thermometer for the heat pad on the warm side set to 92 degrees Fahrenheit. I haven't changed the temps or humidity of his enclosure since I got him. I know it's normal for ball pythons to not want to eat every once in a while but I'm so concerned because he looks underweight to me. Please let me know of any advice you have and also, if you think he is underweight too in the picture.

Here's links to photos of him.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/sho...hp?i=60224&c=3

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/sho...hp?i=60225&c=3

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F98qfzDH.png


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...c6dfb098d4.jpg



Sounds like you can use some references? ^ ^ ^ ;)

Hi, thank you for your response. I've actually seen both of those images before. I have been feeding him based on the range given in the first photo (except for that one random 38g rat) and also taking the girth around his body into account. I've seen the second picture regarding normal/overweight/obese ball pythons as well, but based on my other 5 ball pythons (4 girls and 1 male and I know females tend to grow larger than males) he is the smallest and weighs the least. He is also the oldest out of all of them as well. That's why I'm so worried. I know each and every snake grows at their own pace though.

Based on the second photo regarding ideal physique, I'm not sure if he's in the good category or the slim category. Again, I'm probably a bit biased due to the size of my other 5 snakes. That's why I included pics of him and was hoping to get others' opinions who are more experienced than me. Maybe I'm just used to holding the others and he feels so slim and tiny in my hands in comparison, I'm not sure. But even if he is currently a healthy weight, it won't stay that way forever if he continues not to eat. :/

He looks okay to me, though I'm not currently keeping BPs- I have in the past. As you said, snakes do all grow at their own pace. Sometimes pushing a little too much food just backfires.

But wait for others to give input too- BTW, I added spaces to your post, as I feared it would get ignored otherwise- it was very hard to read that "wall of text". ;)

Lol yes thank you, I appreciate it, it looks way better with the proper spacing! And thanks for responding, any tips on getting him to eat again? I should wait until he's lost 20% of his bodyweight before taking him to the vet, right? And I should definitely not assist feed him since he's not a hatchling and has eaten multiple times before on his own?

Btw, I forgot to mention this, when I tried to feed him 5 days ago, he did strike and coil but then dropped it and seemed uninterested. I tried warming it up again in case it had cooled off too much but he didn't strike again. He seems interested at first every time I offer but then does nothing about it. Today, he seemed interested again but this time he didn't strike.

As I tried to hint, BPs are not my specialty, nor do I ever weigh the prey that I feed my snakes, but until others chime in, I'll offer some thoughts.

It's good that you switched him onto f/t rats, but I get the impression that you're pushing a little too much food on him. It takes time to digest, & not all snakes are created equal- some actually do have better digestion than others. I know the chart above says 5-7 days, but personally, I think that's excessive- and when a snake is refusing a weekly meal, maybe it's time to just offer every other week to see if that doesn't inspire his appetite. (Have you ever been to some relative's house for dinner & they keep trying to pile more food on you until you just want to scream? LOL)

You mention covering the 4th side of his tub? So he's basically in the dark then? :confusd: Shorter days = winter & time to fast for many animals...just saying.

I'm not convinced he's underweight from those pics- & it's very possible your other snakes are a bit on the hefty side, & he doesn't feel like eating as much. Over-feeding snakes is no better than over-eating is for us, so maybe your snake has a point? Also, of the BPs I've known, the females tend to eat more than males, & need the greater body weight for breeding- it's natural.

I think you meant you have a thermostat (not a thermometer) controlling your heat pad? At least I hope so. And 92* is pushing it some, if that's the actual temperature inside the tub, over the UTH with substrate pushed back? What's the "cool side" kept at? Where does he spend most of his time?

Okay, that makes sense about trying to feed too often. I thought he was hungry because he did seem interested every time I offered, struck and coiled once, and he comes out to "hunt" at night time which he usually doesn't do and that was before I began covering the fourth/front side. I usually give them all a day/night cycle and I know that's important, the only reason I covered the front is because I was thinking maybe he's not eating due to stress and seeing us walking by every once in a while could be stressing him out? Unfortunately I live in an apartment and there's only the one room large enough to fit the snakes, so I can't move them to an area with "less traffic" because there is no such area in our apartment.

Yes, I did mean thermostat, I'm using an exoterra one with the probe placed underneath the tub but on top of the heat mat. As of right now, I'm still just using paper towels as a substrate (I sometimes find him hiding underneath the paper towels) although I did purchase and have exoterra cocohusk. He usually spends his time about evenly between the cool and warm hides but it seems recently he's more often on the warm side. I just checked right now and the cool side is 75 degrees Fahrenheit, and the warm side is 89 degrees Fahrenheit. He was actually hiding in one of the paper towel rolls on the warm side. I know ideally the cool side should be a bit warmer, and I tried to do so by using insulation on three of the four sides surrounding his enclosure but it seems I can't get warmer than 75. The heat mat is 1/3 the size of the enclosure. He is on the bottom shelf though.

According to a digital thermometer and hygrometer I have, the humidity is 66% and the ambient temp is 74 degrees Fahrenheit. Again, a little low but I don't know how to get it any warmer. I even have the entire thermostat for our apartment set to 24 degrees Celsius (75.2 degrees Fahrenheit) all the time to try and help. But all of these have been the temps ever since I've had him, they haven't changed and he used to eat just fine. The other snakes all eat just fine as well with the same temps (only slightly different due to shelf placement, like top shelf is slightly warmer than bottom).

So maybe like you said, after eating that huge 38g rat he was just really stuffed and doesn't want anything for a while. If I do switch to offering every other week, what size do you think I should offer? Just the same size as his girth? Or should it be a little bigger than usual since he'll be eating less often?

Btw I do increase the humidity when I see that they are going into shed. I put the water bowl on the warm side and spray with a misting spray bottle.

I would avoid trying to stuff him with a bigger meal, especially if you want him to eat more regularly for you. Let him feel a little hungry...it's natural. Most of our pet snakes eat way more often than they would in the wild, & that's what evolution has designed them for- getting by on sporadic meals, not attending regular banquets. ;)

For all you know, maybe that 38 g. rat gave him a stomach ache? It's not as if he can tell you, but I've heard of BPs refusing to eat certain color rodents after being nipped by one of the same color, so who knows whether he's hesitating because of the size now? I have a geriatric (22 year old) corn snake that's plenty big enough to eat adult mice but he seems to know his digestion is now weaker & will only eat small mice (large hoppers at the most) & he actually prefers fuzzies. Snakes are never "one size fits all"- they make us pay attention to their idiosyncrasies & it certainly keeps it interesting.

And by the way, you do NOT want to offer him food that's "the same size as his girth" but always smaller than that. And definitely not larger than... (I'm not saying they don't do this in the wild when they have no other choice, but many things are different in the wild, including their longevity & the amount of exercise they get.)

Okay, I think what I will do then is leave him alone as much as possible for the next 9 days and then try to feed him next Sunday since that is feeding day for everyone else. I'll offer something smaller than his girth, either a baby rat of 10g or a slightly bigger 17g one that doesn't have any fur on it. Hopefully he will eat then.

I'm surprised about not feeding him something equal to or even larger than his girth, as far as I was aware, for ball pythons, equal to their girth is just right or even up to 1.25 times. But maybe that's what causes so many ball pythons to become overweight.

Thank you so much for your advice, I really appreciate it. Hearing someone with more experience than me, even if you don't specialize in ball pythons, say that he doesn't seem underweight makes me feel much better. I think I'll post on here again next time I attempt to feed him on the 28th and let you know how it goes.

Yes, please keep us posted either way. There's quite a few experienced members here w/ BPs- they may have more suggestions too- it's just been rather quiet around here so far this weekend- I suspect everyone has "spring fever". :cool: But don't be a stranger around here- it helps to both get and share other opinions & ideas. None of our :snake: "read the manuals", much less follow them precisely.

A few things quickly.

1. I saw in another thread that you thought you might have snake mites, but you never responded yay or nay. I assume you do not, but it goes without saying that would be a reason for a snake not to eat.

2. Hot side too hot and cool side too cold. Lower hot side to 87-90F tops and bump cool side to 77-80F. If you are not sure how to do that, ask. It sounds like you have a UTH for the hot side, but that does nothing for air temps. Fix this if you want to start eliminating reasons why you BP might not be eating. Husbandry is number one. Once that's dialed in and if your BP still doesn't eat, you can start troubleshooting other things.

Being that the hot side is a little hot and the cool side a little cold, your BP probably isn't sure what to do. Additionally, not having a gradient (which it sounds like because of using only a UTH - correct me if I am wrong), is bad too. If it's 92F and then 74F next to it, that's not good.

3. Your snake looks okay, but if your BP lost 20% of his/her body weight, I'd be concerned. I think fixing husbandry and getting proper sized meals (see below) will get your BP back on track.

4. Do not force feed a snake that's been eating on its own.

5. BP's are not stretchy. The older they get the smaller the meals can be to maintain or even grow. Young BP's can eat larger meals proportionately and likely will more often, but not huge meals. 20% of body weight is insane for a BP. Can they, probably, but is it good, absolutely not and will probably cause them to fast for a while. When I feed a growing BP, I really don't want to notice a bump after feeding, and if I do, it should be gone in 24 hours completely. My 2KG adult female BP eats a small rat every 2 weeks and fasts in the winter. A little goes a long way with adults, but young ones are efficient too and shouldn't' be pushed.

Other pythons, like Carpet Pythons, can eat 1.5-2X their girth, but not BP's.

I would also be really careful feeding larger meals with your husbandry off. Regurgitation is worse than not eating.

6. You BP is probably too young and small to fast on his/her own accord right now. Something is wrong. I think it's your husbandry and feeding techniques.

7. Leave him/her alone. Stop weighing and taking your BP out regularly. Take out only to clean the tank, don't handle, but put in a holding container instead. This is a new snake now. 3 consecutive meals without any issues or skipping and then you can start to handle again. Also, you should consider putting this BP on quarantine, or any snake that you have health concerns with. Can't hurt, but if that's difficult, and you did when you got him/her and your other snakes, I would be less concerned.


Get your husbandry fixed, ensure no obvious health issues, and feed appropriate sized meals. I like the chart Bogertophis showed you earlier in the thread for size of prey up to medium rats, but think once on small rats, BP's should be fed every 2-3 weeks. I also had bad luck feeding mediums as it meant sporadic feeding. Smalls meant regular eating schedule. Again, my girl is 2KG and will skip meals if fed mediums. Often 2-3 if offered every 2 weeks. Small meals are easier to digest and if you want a BP to be healthy and happy, smaller more frequent and regular meals are better than larger infrequent meals.

Any questions just ask.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Hi thank you for your response. I did not find any other bugs in any of my snakes' enclosures or on their bodies/faces, so I assumed it was just a wood mite or something else. As far as I know I definitely don't have mites.

The hot side is 89 degrees Fahrenheit so that is in the correct range. The thermostat is set to 92F only because after the heat travels through the bottom of the tub and the paper towels it is only 89F, according to my temp gun.

As for warming the cool side, yes I am not sure how to do that. I've heard about ceramic heat emitters but I was under the impression they can't be used with tubs, only terrariums. Additionally, I have 5 other BPs all with the same temps and they eat just fine for me. This specific BP used to eat just fine for me as well at these particular temps, I haven't changed anything.

There is a bit of a gradient, the cool side is 75F (1/3 of the enclosure), the middle 1/3 is between 77-81F, and the warm side outside the hide is 87F and inside the hide is 89F. The ambient temp in my home is set to 75.2F so I'm not even sure how/why the ambient temp in the enclosure isn't at least 75 as well (it's 74).

To point #3, I'm glad you think he at least looks okay. The maximum weight I've got on record for him is 216g which was a few days after feeding the 38g rat so some of that weight was certainly the weight of the food/poop. My most recent weigh in for him is 193g. So he's lost about 10% so far, but again, some of that was food weight/poop. I don't know if you saw this already but he was 72g when I received him on Dec. 6, 2020.

To your point #5, and based on both Bogertophis and your answers, I'm thinking he is fasting after giving him that huge 38g gram rat. Perhaps it upset his stomach like Bogertophis said. Definitely a rookie mistake and I won't be doing that again. I basically just wanted to see out of curiosity instead of just throwing the rat away. I was also secretly hoping he'd eat it because I thought he was underweight.

To your point #7, I only take him out to clean his enclosure if he goes to the bathroom and I weighed him at the same time to see if he had lost 20% or more of his body weight. I haven't held him otherwise in over over 2 weeks, probably closer to 3-4 weeks.

I also want to add that I have not seen (or heard) any signs of a respiratory infection.

To your point #6, maybe it's just like you said in #5, he's fasting because I fed him a big rat that was 20% of his bodyweight?

When I do attempt to feed him again, do you think I should go for a 10g pinky rat or a slightly bigger (no fur) 17g rat?

I would feed the 17G rat.

BTW - I never offer BP's two meals at once. One properly sized meal is fine. Again, if wanting your BP to gain weight, feed every 7 days instead of 10-14.

Okay thank you so much! I will let you guys know how the next attempt goes.

Yea, I try not to feed two instead of one but I've had pretty bad luck with getting the right sized rats within the range I buy them at. I bought 5 bags of 30-60g rats and 2 bags of the 60-90g rats and I didn't get any rats between 45-75g :/

It was a success! I fed Platano the 17g rat and he struck and coiled instantly. He's swallowing it as I write this. Thank you so much to both Bogertophis and Dakski for your help! From now on, I will be feeding him, as well as my other BPs, smaller meals. I rather have them eat a rat that's 10% of their body weight every week, consistently, then try for a 15% one that might cause them to refuse the following week.

This was a (stressful) learning experience and I really appreciate that you guys took the time to help me solve the issue as well as made me feel better about his current weight so I wasn't constantly worrying these past 9 days.

So thanks again! :D:D:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by newbpowner4

It was a success! I fed Platano the 17g rat and he struck and coiled instantly. He's swallowing it as I write this. Thank you so much to both Bogertophis and Dakski for your help! From now on, I will be feeding him, as well as my other BPs, smaller meals. I rather have them eat a rat that's 10% of their body weight every week, consistently, then try for a 15% one that might cause them to refuse the following week.

This was a (stressful) learning experience and I really appreciate that you guys took the time to help me solve the issue as well as made me feel better about his current weight so I wasn't constantly worrying these past 9 days.

So thanks again! :D:D:D

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You are very welcome. We are always here to help.

Thank you for a) posting a response (many people leave us hanging :( and we never know what happened and if the problem was resolved), and b) for listening and applying what you learned. I think you will be happier and your snakes will be happier in the end.

Awesome Platano took the rat and I think you should have smooth sailing from here on out.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by newbpowner4

It was a success! I fed Platano the 17g rat and he struck and coiled instantly. He's swallowing it as I write this. Thank you so much to both Bogertophis and Dakski for your help! From now on, I will be feeding him, as well as my other BPs, smaller meals. I rather have them eat a rat that's 10% of their body weight every week, consistently, then try for a 15% one that might cause them to refuse the following week.

This was a (stressful) learning experience and I really appreciate that you guys took the time to help me solve the issue as well as made me feel better about his current weight so I wasn't constantly worrying these past 9 days.

So thanks again! :D:D:D

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GOOD JOB! :dance: And you're welcome, that's why we're here- to help you figure out your snakes. ;) And maybe have a little fun sharing our experiences too...:snake: