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Feeding / Breeding worries
Hi, my 26 year old ball python has laid parthenogenesis eggs the last 2 years (never been with a male).
Following the last clutch of eggs, she has had 18 rats without missing a single meal, and has gained all her weight back, and a bit more.
The data is shown here:
3 Apr 2020 Swollen/Ovulating
21 Apr 2020 Prelay Shed
3 Jun 2020 6 eggs laid (43 days from Prelay Shed)
WEIGHT 1900g
13 Jun 2020 RAT 1
24 Jun 2020 Shed
24 Jun 2020 RAT 2
2 Jul 2020 RAT 3
12 Jul 2020 RAT 4
25 Jul 2020 RAT 5
3 Aug 2020 Shed
4 Aug 2020 RAT 6
13 Aug 2020 RAT 7
26 Aug 2020 RAT 8
4 Sep 2020 RAT 9
16 Sep 2020 Shed
18 Sep 2020 RAT 10
28 Sep 2020 RAT 11
11 Oct 2020 RAT 12
28 Oct 2020 RAT 13
6 Nov 2020 RAT 14
21 Nov 2020 RAT 15
5 Dec 2020 RAT 16
19 Dec 2020 Shed
17 Jan 2021 RAT 17
14 Feb 2021 RAT 18
WEIGHT 3500g
Its funny, she has never eaten through the winter months for many years, but this winter she's eaten in Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb.
I don't know if this is a sign she is gonna produce eggs or not produce eggs.
I'm just a bit worried about the last two rats, they haven't come out the other end yet and I don't want it to cause issues with (potential) egg production / laying.
I'm not gonna feed her anything for at least a couple of months now, she is a bit overweight as it is, I prefer her to be nearer 3000g.
Any thoughts would be great, thanks.
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What size rat are you feeding her? My non-breeders get a small every two weeks.
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Re: Feeding / Breeding worries
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcr229
What size rat are you feeding her? My non-breeders get a small every two weeks.
I feed roughly 200g rats, I don't go any wider than thickest part of snake and I'll throw away any that I think are too big.
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That's a large/XL depending on the vendor's descriptions. She could likely go months without eating by now.
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Re: Feeding / Breeding worries
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcr229
That's a large/XL depending on the vendor's descriptions. She could likely go months without eating by now.
In the uk its typically regular/medium.
Then above that its large, extra large, jumbo etc.
Not sure how you could call it large or XL to be honest when there are much bigger rats sized 450g available.
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LOL we call them "jumbo" or "colossal" over here.
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Re: Feeding / Breeding worries
Quote:
Originally Posted by colin-java
I feed roughly 200g rats, I don't go any wider than thickest part of snake and I'll throw away any that I think are too big.
That's a huge meal for a ball python, especially as often as you are feeding, why such big meals or so frequently? My males get smalls (60-80grams) every 2-4 weeks. I could see feeding mediums on occasion but nothing that large on the regular ever.
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Re: Feeding / Breeding worries
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingPostal
That's a huge meal for a ball python, especially as often as you are feeding, why such big meals or so frequently? My males get smalls (60-80grams) every 2-4 weeks. I could see feeding mediums on occasion but nothing that large on the regular ever.
Are your males 1.3m long, 3000g?
She was very thin after laying eggs last year, so I was trying to get her weight back up, hence the more frequent feeding, they weren't all 200g, some were 150g.
Apart from being slightly overweight, I think her shape is good, she can bend easily and there's a little bit of spine showing.
The last 3 have been about monthly as she was back to 3000g again, but she's gone over 3000g so I'm not gonna feed for a while now.
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Re: Feeding / Breeding worries
Quote:
Originally Posted by colin-java
Are your males 1.3m long, 3000g?
She was very thin after laying eggs last year, so I was trying to get her weight back up, hence the more frequent feeding, they weren't all 200g, some were 150g.
Apart from being slightly overweight, I think her shape is good, she can bend easily and there's a little bit of spine showing.
The last 3 have been about monthly as she was back to 3000g again, but she's gone over 3000g so I'm not gonna feed for a while now.
I agree with some of the other comments, I think you might be over feeding. Adults have a slower metabolism so you have to figure 150-200g rat at the frequency you were feeding, you’re gonna see some weight gain.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: Feeding / Breeding worries
Quote:
Originally Posted by colin-java
Are your males 1.3m long, 3000g?
She was very thin after laying eggs last year, so I was trying to get her weight back up, hence the more frequent feeding, they weren't all 200g, some were 150g.
Apart from being slightly overweight, I think her shape is good, she can bend easily and there's a little bit of spine showing.
The last 3 have been about monthly as she was back to 3000g again, but she's gone over 3000g so I'm not gonna feed for a while now.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a54e29513c.jpg
That's a 4' cage he's up against and he's about 5 pounds, the other is a young male only a couple years old.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: Feeding / Breeding worries
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Re: Feeding / Breeding worries
I always used to give her smaller meals (about 80g) for about the first 20 years, then I figured she could take bigger ones less frequently as she was big enough for the last 6 years or so.
From my research, its suggested prey size 1 - 1.5 times their width, but I always thought 1.5 was too much, so I've been feeding 150-200g rats the last few years.
I've only been feeding more frequently as she was almost skeletal after laying the parthenogenesis eggs last year and I wanted her fat enough to get through this winter and through the egg thing again (if it happened).
But she has eaten through the winter which hasn't happened for years, and I have let her get a bit fat, but she's no where near obese.
I think I'll try smaller rats in the summer and try to get her to 2800-2900g, if she lays this year I'm sure that will take off much of the weight.
Gonna exercise her for half an hour a day too.
Thanks for advice.
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Keep in mind that all ounces (or grams) are not created equal. Older (larger) rodents have packed on more body fat that they pass on to their consumers, & if that consumer is a slow-moving snake, you can see the problem, right? Snakes can easily gain too much weight, & they have a much harder time losing it than even we do. Prevention is best.
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Re: Feeding / Breeding worries
Large rats biweekly is a lot of food for BPs. I agree that mixing in some small and medium rats, or extending the time between feedings, is a good idea. I know what you mean about the parthenogenesis egg laying though. I have a female bullsnake that’s been doing the same thing for the last few years and I hate seeing her lose so much weight laying a bunch of infertile eggs. I’ll give her large or jumbo rats every 10-14 days and it seems like as soon as she starts putting the weight back on and getting to a decent size, it’s spring and she’s laying eggs again. It’s very frustrating.
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Re: Feeding / Breeding worries
I still donno if there's gonna be eggs this year, cause as I mentioned, she ate one rat in December, one in January, one in February, which is the first time in years that she has eaten in winter.
There's a slight bulge about 1/3 of the way up from the tail end, but its not that funny wedge shape that I got during the last 2 years from ovulation, I think its just the last meal she had.
I haven't seen her gulping much water like in the last 2 years prior to ovulating, and there's been no lying on the side/upside down yet (I forget if that's before or after ovulation).
I'll just have to wait and see.
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Re: Feeding / Breeding worries
Ok good news, she went to the toilet earlier as I was exercising her (partially on my bed, but I don't care),
She was 3500g, and now 3140g and looks less bloated at the rear end.
I know she'll be okay for eggs now if she wants to do them, shouldn't be any blockage issues now (if that's even a thing anyway).
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Exercising snake on stairs, she likes to go up it seems.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...exercising.jpg
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Re: Feeding / Breeding worries
I would not be concerned with size of prey with yours, hardly anyone here can claim the have a 26 year old BP you are obviously doing something right. BPs size can also be genetic, a breeder friend of mine has a 6500g wild caught female he got from outback years ago that came in at about 5900g. My clowns are in the 3500g range and they get fed the same size prey as my other females of the same age but have grown much larger. I feel soon I will need to step them up from mediums to large rats because they are looking for food like a retic.
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Re: Feeding / Breeding worries
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdb730
I would not be concerned with size of prey with yours, hardly anyone here can claim the have a 26 year old BP you are obviously doing something right. BPs size can also be genetic, a breeder friend of mine has a 6500g wild caught female he got from outback years ago that came in at about 5900g. My clowns are in the 3500g range and they get fed the same size prey as my other females of the same age but have grown much larger. I feel soon I will need to step them up from mediums to large rats because they are looking for food like a retic.
Thanks, there's a lot of factors to weight, females will naturally be wider than males of the same length as they have to lay eggs. And like with people, there is variation too.
That 6500g female sounds obese at first, but weight isn't proportional to length, just a 26% increase in length equates to a doubling of weight (if shape stays the same).
I think mine is less muscular than it was a couple of years ago as the 2 years of egg laying made her skin and bone (weighing 2100g and 1900g after each egg laying), so the bit of extra fat she has now should help with that if she lays this year.
I think the easiest thing for me to do is to exercise her more and keep her weight under 3000g, she is roughly 4'4" now.
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