New[ish] Red Tailed Boa

I need some advice. A while back we had a red tailed boa named Thor, my parents sent him off to a breeder because of how defensive he was [always trying to strike at us and but several of us several times.] He was my ex-step mom's snake and she doesn't want him. The person who is caring for him had just lost his brother who was the breeder, he is doing a great job, but Thor is in such a small cage for his size [about 8 ft] i will be getting him back soon, and trying to give him the best life I can. He is about 17 and with every day handling he WILL calm down, which I can do. But do yall have any advice? My dad and I are taking on a project to build him a huuuge cage in my room, one fit for an 8ft snake. I was thinking some branches and stuff for climbing, some foliage and moss, all that stuff. What substrate is the best? Any and all advice is appreciated!

I applaud your thoughtful efforts (your heart is in the right place) but I don't think this snake is for you if your desire is to 'change' this adult boa.

Many folks want to place a boa in a big enclosure thinking they are doing the snake a favor. The reality is, this boa would probably do best in a modest sized enclosure with little interaction. If a person was willing (and capable) of providing a large environment for this snake it may be worth a try but that person needs to know what they are doing and observing...frankly you don't have enough experience for understanding what is working and what is not working. Having said that it is possible to get lucky and have the enclosure acceptance pay off.

What is less likely at this point is changing this 17 year old boa's behavior. It has adopted this defensive behavior and it has worked for it for all these years... Forced handling in an effort to 'calm' this snake will cause stress and will probably shorten its life...may even kill it in short order. I don't give you good odds on this approach and I'm certain it is not the best thing for this boa.

If you want take this boa in, I suggest you accept the boa for what it is currently...and that is a grumpy senior citizen that should have food delivered while allowing as much privacy as possible.

Ah, I get that. Thank you for the advice! I just remember how he used to be and he was like a big ole puppy. We can build a big cage for him, but chances are that he isn't going to live much past 21. The breeders apparently were powerfeeding him which I understand because well.. breeding. But I also understand that this takes a few years from a snake. Honestly I really just want to give him a good rest of the life, he does deserve that at least. And if I can help in any way, I will. It was in no choice of mine to give him away, but I was too young to say anything. He may not change and I may have to just admire from afar.. but it's worth it. So I'm guessing no handling or anything? All I know is that his breeder passed away and he was handled every day. And turned up like a bug puppy again untill he passed and went back to his defensive self. Quite sad.

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Originally Posted by BlueOrleans1290

Ah, I get that. Thank you for the advice! I just remember how he used to be and he was like a big ole puppy. We can build a big cage for him, but chances are that he isn't going to live much past 21. The breeders apparently were powerfeeding him which I understand because well.. breeding. But I also understand that this takes a few years from a snake. Honestly I really just want to give him a good rest of the life, he does deserve that at least. And if I can help in any way, I will. It was in no choice of mine to give him away, but I was too young to say anything. He may not change and I may have to just admire from afar.. but it's worth it. So I'm guessing no handling or anything? All I know is that his breeder passed away and he was handled every day. And turned up like a bug puppy again untill he passed and went back to his defensive self. Quite sad.

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I know you're trying to help him, but remember that this snake may not be the same one (mentally) as you remember, so don't put yourself at risk by trying to handle him solo, okay? An 8' boa can hurt you- so please have someone else on hand with snake experience when you work with him. Be safe!

First of all, good on you for your thoughtful efforts and trying to do your best by this boa. It's quite refreshing to see people go to such lengths for reptiles.

Secondly (and this is the something I agree with bns on): at this point, Thor is Thor. His personality is what it is and you can't "change" him. If you'd like to take him in, you'll have to learn how to go with him and adjust your keeping to fit his needs and personality. If he truly is a defensive snake that prefers to be left alone, his wishes should be respected. Frequent handling to "calm him down" will only cause him undue stress.

That being said, are you sure that his "defensiveness" is actually defensiveness/aggression, and not just him being food happy? Some boas have an overzealous feeding response and will reflexively strike whenever their enclosure door is opened in anticipation of being fed. For them, the door opening is pretty much the dinner bell ringing! This is why tap training is so important with snakes - in short, it teaches them that you coming into their enclosure does not always equal food. Based on what you've said so far, it sounds like Thor isn't so much defensive as much as an overzealous feeder. Overzealous feeding responses are something an experienced boa breeder would know how to handle, hence why Thor became "defensive" again after the breeder passed - his breeder might not have thought much of his behavior, while people not as experienced with such boas do.

Third: are you sure Thor's actually eight feet? Even for a power-fed male common boa, that seems a bit large. It's pretty easy to overestimate a large boa's size when you're "eyeballing it" or measuring from an old shed. Try having him stretch out straight against something of known length (ie. a section of wall) and seeing how he compares. If he's more in the 6-7' range versus the 8'+ range, then a 6' cage should be alright for him. It'll give him enough room to stretch out, get comfy, and get some exercise in while being more manageable than something "huge."

In general, the combined length and width of a snake's cage should be no shorter than the snake's overall length. In an ideal scenario: length of cage (length of snake) X width of cage (half of length of snake) X height of cage (half of length of snake). Personally, I'd argue that a snake who spends the majority of their time in their enclosure (ie. one not taken out for handling for one reason or another) should have a cage of the "ideal" scenario - since they won't be coming out for handling-based exercise, they should be given more opportunity and space to exercise in their enclosure.

I hope this helps! Please take my advice with a grain of salt, though. I'm just a novice keeper - a well-read novice, hopefully, but still just a novice - so you'll want to get advice from more experienced keepers as well.

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Originally Posted by WrongPython

.... Please take my advice with a grain of salt, though. I'm just a novice keeper - a well-read novice, hopefully, but still just a novice - so you'll want to get advice from more experienced keepers as well.

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Well, "novice keeper" or not, you gave an excellent answer, with which I heartily agree. :gj:

Haha yeah.. he can just be my grumpy old man, I'm okay with that. And no worries, any time I have to take him out my dad will be right there. I haven't seen him in person for forever.. but I'm just going off of what the guy I'm getting him from says. Could be false?

Also I wish more people would go to these lengths.. one of my babies isn't eating and I'm trying everything I absolutely can to help her. I would literally die for my snakes God bless them I love them so much

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Originally Posted by BlueOrleans1290

... I would literally die for my snakes God bless them I love them so much

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No, please don't do that. They need you to stick around. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

No, please don't do that. They need you to stick around. ;)

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the snakes aren't the only ones! what would we do without your awesome sense of humor and wonderfully friendly personality Blue?

don't forget the snake hook! :P

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Originally Posted by BeansTheDerp

the snakes aren't the only ones! what would we do without your awesome sense of humor and wonderfully friendly personality Blue?

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Thats so sweet I can't even awwwwww

What gives you the idea he was powerfed? 17 seems quit a long time for a boa who was powerfed to live, and I see no reason to powerfeed a male even by greedy-for-money standards, after a snake has reached sexual maturity and breeding size. Feeding more food than necessary is absolutely a waste of money, and males don't give any benefit at all from being larger, in fact it makes it worse for fertility. It really sounds like you harbor some misconceptions about breeding. I would not make any assumptions that this animal is going to die within a few years and plan for him to be around a good long while.

8' is pretty darn large for a lot of male boas, but it's certainly not unheard of for a BCC who was fed properly (slowly) and isn't a designer animal bred for morphs. I would still gather he probably isn't that big, because people almost always over exaggerate the size of large snakes and they aren't exactly the easiest things to measure because they don't like to sit still all stretched out lol.

I also agree, I wouldn't have your hopes up that his behavior is going to change, that he is probably set in his ways. That doesn't mean he can't be a great animal, but it's important to manage your expectations and be aware that he may be very difficult to handle in order to clean his enclosure and things. You will certainly need another adult to help you as a safety backup whenever you need in his enclosure for any reason, including feeding and changing water. If that is not something you can provide now and expect to provide indefinitely, I would not take him in. This is the very reason I do not own a mainland retic as much as I adore them, and am willing to provide them a large enclosure with plenty to climb on, and all the best things every retic deserves. You need to think long and hard how you will handle this snake in 5, 10, 20 years from now because he could live a long time if the correct husbandry is provided.

Okay so. We had this snake for the first 10 years. I only think he was being powered because he was being fed every single week even at adult size.. I could be wrong, so excuse me. But I don't agree with it either in breeding. I just know it's something that some snake breeders do

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Originally Posted by BlueOrleans1290

Okay so. We had this snake for the first 10 years. I only think he was being powered because he was being fed every single week even at adult size.. I could be wrong, so excuse me. But I don't agree with it either in breeding. I just know it's something that some snake breeders do

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I cannot fathom for the life of me why a breeder would powerfeed a 10yo male boa D: and yes, that is way too much unless it's seasonal to bulk them up for breeding season where they have to expend a LOT more calories than any pet boa and really need that extra intake.

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Originally Posted by BlueOrleans1290

Okay so. We had this snake for the first 10 years. I only think he was being powered because he was being fed every single week even at adult size.. I could be wrong, so excuse me. But I don't agree with it either in breeding. I just know it's something that some snake breeders do

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Yeah, feeding an adult boa every week- I'd call that power-feeding too. :confusd: I've heard of ppl who power-feed to get young snakes to breeding size sooner (which is a lousy idea), or maybe the females they're breeding, but never heard of anyone feeding a 10 y/o male boa every week? Maybe that was their idea of a "snake pacifier", so they could change the water bowl while he was "busy"?

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Yeah, feeding an adult boa every week- I'd call that power-feeding too. :confusd: I've heard of ppl who power-feed to get young snakes to breeding size sooner (which is a lousy idea), or maybe the females they're breeding, but never heard of anyone feeding a 10 y/o male boa every week? Maybe that was their idea of a "snake pacifier", so they could change the water bowl while he was "busy"?

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I guess that's a possibility. Seems a lot more trouble than just blocking his head with a roll of paper towels or a tub lid or something. I know boas behave a lot differently than a BP or retic when it comes to territorial aggression but good grief. Some people should not keep snakes, let alone breed them D:

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

I guess that's a possibility. Seems a lot more trouble than just blocking his head with a roll of paper towels or a tub lid or something. I know boas behave a lot differently than a BP or retic when it comes to territorial aggression but good grief. Some people should not keep snakes, let alone breed them D:

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Yeah, really! :rolleyes: Poor snakes... we'll likely never know what their thinking was.

Being fed once a week at adult size is definitely too much. While I'm not sure if it meets the formal definition of power feeding or not - "power feeding" implies some sort of purposeful intent - that's definitely overfeeding. In general, an average adult male common boa should only need to eat an appropriately-sized meal about once a month.

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

... I wouldn't have your hopes up that his behavior is going to change, that he is probably set in his ways. That doesn't mean he can't be a great animal, but it's important to manage your expectations and be aware that he may be very difficult to handle in order to clean his enclosure and things. You will certainly need another adult to help you as a safety backup whenever you need in his enclosure for any reason, including feeding and changing water. If that is not something you can provide now and expect to provide indefinitely, I would not take him in. This is the very reason I do not own a mainland retic as much as I adore them, and am willing to provide them a large enclosure with plenty to climb on, and all the best things every retic deserves. You need to think long and hard how you will handle this snake in 5, 10, 20 years from now because he could live a long time if the correct husbandry is provided.

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Couldn't have said it better myself, nikkubus. And I feel you on having to take a pass on cool species due to long-term size and handling concerns - I'm looking at you, Morelia bredli and Boa constrictor occidentalis.

I agree with what everyone else has said on this front. In general, you should have a second person around if you're dealing with a snake that's greater than 6'/2m in length. It's a downright necessity if you're dealing with something in the 8' neighborhood. Even if Thor isn't truly defensive and his striking stems from an overzealous feeding response, accidents do happen, and a feeding bite from a snake of his size may not be something you can handle on your own. Remember: safety is paramount. Long-term care ability is right behind that, at least in my book. If you're seriously considering keeping Thor for the long haul, I think a good first step would actually be sitting down, having a honest conversation with yourself, and determining if you'll realistically be able to provide him with the care heneeds during that time period. I've personally put myself through this mental exercise multiple times (including today), and it's stopped me from taking on new snakes, which I think will ultimately be for the better.

Ah yes.. well I do know that my dad would be right there every time I need to do anything with him. Honestly.. I just really want him to be my old grumpy man. I wanted him to come back home, and if I can't handle him that's alright. As long as he is happy, I'm happy