No movement

I got a new BP [her name is Sasquach, Sas for short] almost a month ago, the first day she arrived she moved around and everything, and now that she has settled in and I haven't been handling her because she refuses to eat, she just doesn't move from her one spot. Ever. Her temps are normal, I'm still getting humidity up because the heat lamp i added sucked it all away, but she just stays in the same spot all day long and I hardly ever see her move. I didn't think this was normal? Do I need to add more hides to encourage more movement? More things to stimulate her brain? I haven't had this problem with any other snakes. Just her. Suggestions?

There may be another issue at play given she's not eating, but otherwise a ball python typically doesn't move much on principle compared to other snakes. They are both nocturnal and ambush hunters (meaning they stay in one place for long periods of time waiting for prey to pass by), which means they not only don't have much reason to move, but the times they do move are likely when we're sleeping.

My own BP is very much the same as yours, explored a lot when he first arrived and then hunkered down to one hide and almost never leaves it. He has other hides, he has enrichment in fake foliage and climbing branches, but he's content to stay in the same place 90% of the time. Yet despite that he's perfectly healthy and eating heartily.

Again there may be other things to look into considering your girl isn't eating, but on a base level a stationary ball python is pretty normal in most cases.

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

There may be another issue at play given she's not eating, but otherwise a ball python typically doesn't move much on principle compared to other snakes. They are both nocturnal and ambush hunters (meaning they stay in one place for long periods of time waiting for prey to pass by), which means they not only don't have much reason to move, but the times they do move are likely when we're sleeping.

My own BP is very much the same as yours, explored a lot when he first arrived and then hunkered down to one hide and almost never leaves it. He has other hides, he has enrichment in fake foliage and climbing branches, but he's content to stay in the same place 90% of the time. Yet despite that he's perfectly healthy and eating heartily.

Again there may be other things to look into considering your girl isn't eating, but on a base level a stationary ball python is pretty normal in most cases.

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That does make me feel a bit better. I'm hoping she will eat soon, but I'm not that shocked because she is fairly new and I suppose still adjusting. Thank you so much, I really appreciate it! :P

You're welcome. I've heard BPs described as "living pet rocks" before, and after having mine for some time (I got him last September) I can say with utmost confidence that such a claim is accurate. :rofl:

We need more info, & it would also help to post pics of your set-up if possible.

What are the temperatures- lowest, highest ("hot spot")- and where she is parked (in relation to the warmth)? What kind of enclosure? How cold is the room it's in? Is it a quiet location?

Is that all you're using for heat- just an overhead "heat-lamp"? How much light is she sitting under? Few snakes appreciate a lot of light, so you might be better off using a CHE (ceramic heat emitter- similar to a light bulb except it doesn't put out any light) or a red or black incandescent bulb for a lot less light. No snake should be under a bright light for 24/7.

Does she have at least 2 hides? (one cool side, one warm side) How large are they compared to her coiled up size? BPs are snakes that like to feel "back pressure"- to be cozy & snug in their hides so they know nothing can sneak up on them- ie. they're safe. What KIND of hides are they? (ie. open-ended tree bark tunnels don't offer security- they're okay as cage furniture, but don't really count as "hides".) Hides should have one door only, just big enough for a snake to fit thru after a meal, & they want a low ceiling.

How are you taking the temperatures? (they need to be accurate).

How old is she? Do you have any history on her? When did she hatch? What she was eating before you got her? For best results, offer the same size & kind of prey & in the same way- ie. mice or rats, approximate size, live or frozen-thawed ("f/t") or fresh-killed ("f/k"). How you offer food can either entice a hungry snake to eat or scare them into refusing; BPs are often fairly docile, so a rodent that appears to come AT them would not be natural & would scare them. Make sense? A slight jiggle to elicit a chase from the snake is far better than too much motion.
Use feeding tongs to offer & never take a snake out of their home to feed in some other side cage.

What time of day have you tried to feed? BPs usually feed best in evening/night hours.

How often? If your snake refuses food, don't keep offering as that only stresses them to refuse even more. Wait at least a week before offering again, & after several weeks, maybe wait 2 weeks before offering again.

What is the snake doing when you tried to feed? BPs are ambush-predators- they don't actively hunt for their food, they wait where they feel secure (often peeking out of their hide) until some "clueless prey" happens to pass by them within reach- within striking distance. Don't bother trying to feed a BP that's roaming their enclosure- they don't feel secure enough to eat then.

Humidity: can be a challenge, especially in winter (our heat & A/C removes humidity from our homes, even in humid climates). The kind of substrate you use can make a huge improvement on humidity; you can also add a "humid hide". (Ask if you don't understand what that means.)

BPs: in general are not active snakes- they tend to stay put more than many other kinds (making some ppl call them "pet rocks"), but a snake that's newly acquired will also be confused & fearful for a while- they do need time to settle in. Older snakes often take longer to adapt than young ones (how old is yours?).

Winter temperatures- if your snake was exposed to chilly temperatures, that could make her hesitant to accept food too, instinctively.

What other kinds of snakes do you have experience with?

Honestly, in all my time keeping BPs, I get a lot more concerned when they are active than when they aren't. Most of mine don't move much at all when they aren't thinking it's food time.

Double check all your temps and humidity is good, make sure you have enough in the enclosure that there aren't barren spots that seem "unsafe" to her, but other than that I wouldn't worry about it.

I agree with Bogertophis. Please answer those questions so we can get a better idea of what might be wrong.

Yes, BP's need an adjustment period, but a month is a long time, especially if she was eating prior and if she is young.

How old is she?

What was she eating prior to you getting her? Live or F/T? What type of prey? Rat or mouse? What size of prey?

You are going to want all that to be consistent if you want her to eat.

Further, if F/T, are you sure you are defrosting and offering properly? If you aren't sure, ask, and we will help you.

Please let us know the answers to the above and to Bogertophis's questions so we can help your snake get on track.

my BP did the same thing, staying in the warm hide and not eating, I found out that the food we offered was to big! so we fed him two small baby fancy mice. the temps should be 87-90 on the warm side and 77-80 on the cold side. another reason could be sickness or going in shed soon. or just the plain stress of a new home. I know that once Beans ate he was super lively and looking around a lot! hope your problem is fixed!

TIP: if the snake is around a year old and on rat pups and not eating you can get two baby mice that are still on milk, they don't do as much damage if they bite, but that's if you're feeding live. if the breeder fed F/T then feed F/T and get tips and details from the breeder, if they fed live then try what I mentioned in the beginning of the tip, just keep in mind to feed one at a time, wait for her to get it down and to yawn (to adjust jaw) and then throw the other one in and do the same!

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

We need more info, & it would also help to post pics of your set-up if possible.

What are the temperatures- lowest, highest ("hot spot")- and where she is parked (in relation to the warmth)? What kind of enclosure? How cold is the room it's in? Is it a quiet location?

Is that all you're using for heat- just an overhead "heat-lamp"? How much light is she sitting under? Few snakes appreciate a lot of light, so you might be better off using a CHE (ceramic heat emitter- similar to a light bulb except it doesn't put out any light) or a red or black incandescent bulb for a lot less light. No snake should be under a bright light for 24/7.

Does she have at least 2 hides? (one cool side, one warm side) How large are they compared to her coiled up size? BPs are snakes that like to feel "back pressure"- to be cozy & snug in their hides so they know nothing can sneak up on them- ie. they're safe. What KIND of hides are they? (ie. open-ended tree bark tunnels don't offer security- they're okay as cage furniture, but don't really count as "hides".) Hides should have one door only, just big enough for a snake to fit thru after a meal, & they want a low ceiling.

How are you taking the temperatures? (they need to be accurate).

How old is she? Do you have any history on her? When did she hatch? What she was eating before you got her? For best results, offer the same size & kind of prey & in the same way- ie. mice or rats, approximate size, live or frozen-thawed ("f/t") or fresh-killed ("f/k"). How you offer food can either entice a hungry snake to eat or scare them into refusing; BPs are often fairly docile, so a rodent that appears to come AT them would not be natural & would scare them. Make sense? A slight jiggle to elicit a chase from the snake is far better than too much motion.
Use feeding tongs to offer & never take a snake out of their home to feed in some other side cage.

What time of day have you tried to feed? BPs usually feed best in evening/night hours.

How often? If your snake refuses food, don't keep offering as that only stresses them to refuse even more. Wait at least a week before offering again, & after several weeks, maybe wait 2 weeks before offering again.

What is the snake doing when you tried to feed? BPs are ambush-predators- they don't actively hunt for their food, they wait where they feel secure (often peeking out of their hide) until some "clueless prey" happens to pass by them within reach- within striking distance. Don't bother trying to feed a BP that's roaming their enclosure- they don't feel secure enough to eat then.

Humidity: can be a challenge, especially in winter (our heat & A/C removes humidity from our homes, even in humid climates). The kind of substrate you use can make a huge improvement on humidity; you can also add a "humid hide". (Ask if you don't understand what that means.)

BPs: in general are not active snakes- they tend to stay put more than many other kinds (making some ppl call them "pet rocks"), but a snake that's newly acquired will also be confused & fearful for a while- they do need time to settle in. Older snakes often take longer to adapt than young ones (how old is yours?).

Winter temperatures- if your snake was exposed to chilly temperatures, that could make her hesitant to accept food too, instinctively.

What other kinds of snakes do you have experience with?

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In her low spot it ranges from 79-83, in the mid spot it ranges from 84-86, and in her warm spot, where she currently is, it ranges from 87-90 but no warmer. Because it's winter my room is about 71 degrees, and my room is the quietest one in the house. If people are yelling downstairs, you can hear it but it hardly bothers.

I use a heat mat as well, both are controlled by thermometers, and I use an infrared heat gun to check temps about once every other day just to make sure. I'm using a red incandescent light, which I must admit puts off more light than I was expecting. Its a bulb by zoo-med, not sure if that says anything. But it had really good reviews about it so I figured I'd give it a try. The bulb turns off when it gets to the desired temperature, so it does at least give a period of no light throughout the day for her to enjoy. I don't turn my room light on unless it's day, and my window is always open for some 'natural' sun and for a regular day/night schedule.

She is in a regular Exo-Terra right now, because I didn't want to move her into a bigger cage yet. She does have one hide, and yes it is an on ended log, [it sitting on the heat] I made sure to block both ends but the entrance though. There is some foliage on one side, and on the other side is the end of the enclosure whish has a towel over it to keep it dark. [Its also over half of the cage to help with humidity]

She is 6 months old, and I got her almost a month ago. She was eating live fuzzy rats [and I'm still trying to work out how to get her to switch to F/T] I don't have much history on her other than that she came from a reputable breeder. It does make sense. I've tried feeding a little after mid afternoon, so I can try feeding later.

I try once a week. And if she refuses, I offer again in a week. When I try to feed her, she's in her hide and she moves a little, sometimes she will come up to it and act interested when I jiggle it a little, but then she just goes back under her hide.

I have experience with Red-Tailed boas, ball pythons, and a Kenyan sand boa. Not much, but it does at least give me an inkling.

thermometers.[/QUOTE]

Thermostats*

Oh and, I put the frozen fuzzy rat in water that's about 92 degrees for 30 mins or untill it's completely floppy on the tongs. Then once it is, I put it in another cup with 92 degree water to warm it up again.

If she only has one hide, I'd add another of the same exact type to the cool end.

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

If she only has one hide, I'd add another of the same exact type to the cool end.

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Will do. Did everything else sound alright though?

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Originally Posted by BlueOrleans1290

Will do. Did everything else sound alright though?

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Not sure which exact exoterra you have, if it's one of the arboreal shaped ones vs the long ones, that could be intimidating to a young BP, but everything else seems good.

The red light is not the problem, especially if it’s infrared. Been using longer then I care to remember. Che’s are heat zappers that make humidity issues a lot worse in aquarium type tanks. ✌️

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

Not sure which exact exoterra you have, if it's one of the arboreal shaped ones vs the long ones, that could be intimidating to a young BP, but everything else seems good.

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It is a taller one, I have an adult cage for her, but she's just too small right now. Thank you :)

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Originally Posted by BlueOrleans1290

Will do. Did everything else sound alright though?

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Pretty much...just be sure you're taking the temps on the floor where she actually is- tall tanks are harder to heat, especially from above- it has trouble reaching the floor. (I saw where you're using UTH too.) And add at least one hide for sure. If you have trouble keeping the humidity up, & enough room for 3 hides, make one a "humid hide".

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Pretty much...just be sure you're taking the temps on the floor where she actually is- tall tanks are harder to heat, especially from above- it has trouble reaching the floor. (I saw where you're using UTH too.) And add at least one hide for sure. If you have trouble keeping the humidity up, & enough room for 3 hides, make one a "humid hide".

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Will do, I really appreciate it! I'll do my best to make sure she has the best care I can offer :)

A few thoughts that could help.

If she's young, and eating fuzzy rats implies she is, the following is very important. She will need to eat soon.

1. Once you get husbandry on point (temps, hides - more on hides in second, humidity, etc), you may still have to offer a live fuzzy rat to get her going. If she was eating live and not F/T, you might not be able to switch her right away. They often do switch, but at this point, you might not have a choice for much longer.

2. Hides, hides, hides. If she is in her adult enclosure, as you say, she will need hides that are identical and SNUG on the warm and cool side, but also probably one in the middle, and/or a big water bowl, etc. to clutter up the tank. Adult BP's need to feel secure in their enclosures. Younger BP's, especially ones that haven't eaten, definitely need that feeling.

The more items in the tank, the better right now. Let her feel snug.

3. As Bogertophis said - temps taken at the ground with a temp gun are pivotal. That's the only way you will know for sure what temps you are dealing with.

Below is how to properly defrost a rat without cooking it or it still being frozen. It's important to let it defrost at room temp and then warm it up at the end and quickly before feeding on tongs. A BP will turn down a cooked rat. Also, be gentle when offering. Don't shove in her face, etc. Let her strike at it. If she doesn't, you can leave up to overnight, but not more than 12 hours. Often if they don't take quickly, they won't eat.

Any other questions, just ask.



This is my step by step list on defrosting F/T rodents.

Others may do it differently and that's fine. This how I do it and it works for me.


STEPS FOR DEFROSTING F/T RODENTS/PREY

1. Put prey item(s) into appropriate size plastic bag. I use Quart size ziplock bags up to a medium rat. NOTE: Bags are optional. Some people just throw the prey in the water. I like the bags, but you have to squeeze the air out of them.

2. Fill the container/storage box 3/4 of the way with room temp to slightly warm water. If you have a temp gun (which you should, so if you don't, get one), make sure the water is not hotter than 85-90F, or there about.

3. Put F/T prey item(s) in water. Cover (optional) and leave for an hour +/-.

4. After an hour, rotate/flip prey. If in plastic bags, they often will stay on whatever side you put them in on. So if mouse is on left side, turn to right side, etc.

5. Leave for another hour +/- for a TOTAL of about 2 hours (up to medium sized rat - longer if bigger prey).

6. Check that prey is defrosted totally through. Squeeze at different sections of the preys body. Should be cool/room temp to touch, but be soft with no cold spots. If hard (except for bone), in abdomen, for example, or cold, put back in water until room temp and soft.

7. Take prey out of the container/storage box and put aside. THEN FOLLOW STEPS 8-11 OR STEP 12

8. Fill container with hot water from tap. If using temp gun, water temp should be 110-130F, not more.

9. Drop prey item into water for 30 seconds +/-. If multiple prey items, do one at a time. You want each item hot when you offer.

10. Remove (if hot water, with tongs).

11. Dry as best as you can, and is quickly as you can, with paper towels. I dry with paper towels while I am walking from the bathroom where I defrost to the snake tanks. I kind of wrap the prey item up in them. It's ten feet, so by the time I get to the tanks, the prey is drier, but still warm.

12. If not using hot water, use a hairdryer to heat rat so it entices snake

13. Open tank and offer ASAP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dakski

A few thoughts that could help.

If she's young, and eating fuzzy rats implies she is, the following is very important. She will need to eat soon.

1. Once you get husbandry on point (temps, hides - more on hides in second, humidity, etc), you may still have to offer a live fuzzy rat to get her going. If she was eating live and not F/T, you might not be able to switch her right away. They often do switch, but at this point, you might not have a choice for much longer.

2. Hides, hides, hides. If she is in her adult enclosure, as you say, she will need hides that are identical and SNUG on the warm and cool side, but also probably one in the middle, and/or a big water bowl, etc. to clutter up the tank. Adult BP's need to feel secure in their enclosures. Younger BP's, especially ones that haven't eaten, definitely need that feeling.

The more items in the tank, the better right now. Let her feel snug.

3. As Bogertophis said - temps taken at the ground with a temp gun are pivotal. That's the only way you will know for sure what temps you are dealing with.

Below is how to properly defrost a rat without cooking it or it still being frozen. It's important to let it defrost at room temp and then warm it up at the end and quickly before feeding on tongs. A BP will turn down a cooked rat. Also, be gentle when offering. Don't shove in her face, etc. Let her strike at it. If she doesn't, you can leave up to overnight, but not more than 12 hours. Often if they don't take quickly, they won't eat.

Any other questions, just ask.



This is my step by step list on defrosting F/T rodents.

Others may do it differently and that's fine. This how I do it and it works for me.


STEPS FOR DEFROSTING F/T RODENTS/PREY

1. Put prey item(s) into appropriate size plastic bag. I use Quart size ziplock bags up to a medium rat. NOTE: Bags are optional. Some people just throw the prey in the water. I like the bags, but you have to squeeze the air out of them.

2. Fill the container/storage box 3/4 of the way with room temp to slightly warm water. If you have a temp gun (which you should, so if you don't, get one), make sure the water is not hotter than 85-90F, or there about.

3. Put F/T prey item(s) in water. Cover (optional) and leave for an hour +/-.

4. After an hour, rotate/flip prey. If in plastic bags, they often will stay on whatever side you put them in on. So if mouse is on left side, turn to right side, etc.

5. Leave for another hour +/- for a TOTAL of about 2 hours (up to medium sized rat - longer if bigger prey).

6. Check that prey is defrosted totally through. Squeeze at different sections of the preys body. Should be cool/room temp to touch, but be soft with no cold spots. If hard (except for bone), in abdomen, for example, or cold, put back in water until room temp and soft.

7. Take prey out of the container/storage box and put aside. THEN FOLLOW STEPS 8-11 OR STEP 12

8. Fill container with hot water from tap. If using temp gun, water temp should be 110-130F, not more.

9. Drop prey item into water for 30 seconds +/-. If multiple prey items, do one at a time. You want each item hot when you offer.

10. Remove (if hot water, with tongs).

11. Dry as best as you can, and is quickly as you can, with paper towels. I dry with paper towels while I am walking from the bathroom where I defrost to the snake tanks. I kind of wrap the prey item up in them. It's ten feet, so by the time I get to the tanks, the prey is drier, but still warm.

12. If not using hot water, use a hairdryer to heat rat so it entices snake

13. Open tank and offer ASAP.

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Thank you so much! Will do. I have it scheduled to try again this Wednesday. When should I start worrying that she isn't eating? Ther isn't anyone around us that carries live anymore. I've checked everywhere.. the only other substitute would be a small hampster.. which I'm not sure I'm willing to do unless her life depends on it.. honestly not even sure if that would be healthy for her. So probably not. I was going to try two more times, and if she still refuses both, then I'm not sure what to do next. Simply because I can't find live anywhere. Maybe I could order live online but I doubt that would go very well.

I got moisture up again about 15 percent more today than it was this morning. Still working on it though. And her temps are just fine, I checked on ground level with the heat gun.

Also, I was looking at her today.. her eyes seem a bit more dull. I'm thinking she might go into shed soon.. which worries me because thats even longer that she won't be eating..

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Originally Posted by BlueOrleans1290

Also, I was looking at her today.. her eyes seem a bit more dull. I'm thinking she might go into shed soon.. which worries me because thats even longer that she won't be eating..

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That's not a very reliable way to tell on oncoming shed. You want the room dark, & using a very small flashlight, shine the beam from either side, across the arc of her eyes- if her eyes are clouding up, it will be much more obvious this way. We don't all describe them the same way: "milky", "cloudy", "in blue"...but you get the idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlueOrleans1290

Thank you so much! Will do. I have it scheduled to try again this Wednesday. When should I start worrying that she isn't eating? Ther isn't anyone around us that carries live anymore. I've checked everywhere.. the only other substitute would be a small hampster.. which I'm not sure I'm willing to do unless her life depends on it.. honestly not even sure if that would be healthy for her. So probably not. I was going to try two more times, and if she still refuses both, then I'm not sure what to do next. Simply because I can't find live anywhere. Maybe I could order live online but I doubt that would go very well.

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Here's the thing about rodents: mice & rats have "babies" (pinkies, fuzzies) that do NOT bite in self-defense as long as their eyes are closed. Once they open their eyes (hoppers), they start to defend themselves, but not very well right away. For about a week, they're still pretty clumsy, but there's always a risk to snakes with rodents when their eyes are open. Pre-killed or f/t is preferred & safer.

You do NOT want to feed live hamsters of any age to your snake, because even the babies with eyes closed will growl & bite back. (I've raised my own rodents, mice, rats & hamsters, for decades, & even did rodents as a small business for a while.) Hamsters WILL hurt an unsuspecting snake. BPs do like hamsters, & also ASF's, but BPs can be picky eaters, & once they try them, they may prefer & INSIST on them from then on, so be careful what you just "try". ;)

Have you inquired at local vet offices if they know anyone breeding & selling rodents? Some of their staff may be into snakes too, or may know of someone- & a quick phone call is easy to ask & find out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Here's the thing about rodents: mice & rats have "babies" (pinkies, fuzzies) that do NOT bite in self-defense as long as their eyes are closed. Once they open their eyes (hoppers), they start to defend themselves, but not very well right away. For about a week, they're still pretty clumsy, but there's always a risk to snakes with rodents when their eyes are open. Pre-killed or f/t is preferred & safer.

You do NOT want to feed live hamsters of any age to your snake, because even the babies with eyes closed will growl & bite back. (I've raised my own rodents, mice, rats & hamsters, for decades, & even did rodents as a small business for a while.) Hamsters WILL hurt an unsuspecting snake. BPs do like hamsters, & also ASF's, but BPs can be picky eaters, & once they try them, they may prefer & INSIST on them from then on, so be careful what you just "try". ;)

Have you inquired at local vet offices if they know anyone breeding & selling rodents? Some of their staff may be into snakes too, or may know of someone- & a quick phone call is easy to ask & find out.

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I'm taking my snake Bindi to the vet for a checkup soon, so I'll ask then.

Hi. I don't think you have much to worry about based on the information you provided. What is her weight like? Does she seem excessively skinny? As long as her weight is fine I wouldn't worry just yet. Keep offering her a meal once every week or so.

Are you only trying to feed her Frozen Thawed now or have you offered live? Between moving into a new home, switching to F/T and the fact that it is winter, there is a good chance that she has just gone off food for a while.

I currently have 2 Ball Pythons at the moment that haven't eaten in 2-3 months. Many of them will do this during the winter months.

Adults can go off food for quite some time but Juveniles will obviously need to feed sooner. Have you tried contacting the breeder? He may be able to supply you with a live Rat to try?

https://www.reptilerange.com/ball-python-care-sheet/

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Originally Posted by mechliam

Hi. I don't think you have much to worry about based on the information you provided. What is her weight like? Does she seem excessively skinny? As long as her weight is fine I wouldn't worry just yet. Keep offering her a meal once every week or so.

Are you only trying to feed her Frozen Thawed now or have you offered live? Between moving into a new home, switching to F/T and the fact that it is winter, there is a good chance that she has just gone off food for a while.

I currently have 2 Ball Pythons at the moment that haven't eaten in 2-3 months. Many of them will do this during the winter months.

Adults can go off food for quite some time but Juveniles will obviously need to feed sooner. Have you tried contacting the breeder? He may be able to supply you with a live Rat to try?

https://www.reptilerange.com/ball-python-care-sheet/

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Her weight seems normal, if anything just BARELY under. I don't have a weigher. But she looks fine to me. That's a great Idea! I will contact the breeder soon.

Congrats on your new critter. It sounds like your temps are dialed in, and since it's only been a month that you've had her, I don't see any cause for serious concern just yet. If she's 6 months old, and at a healthy weight, she can go quite a while without food. I think you're doing the right thing by leaving her totally alone except for cage maintenance. I'd space out the feeding attempts to every 2-3 weeks until she decides to eat again and they ALL eat eventually. I'm a firm believer that the hunger ALWAYS wins. Unfortunately, BPs can be some of the most stubborn snakes and playing the long game with them can be frustrating. I've had them go 8-12 months without food and they were just fine. It's just a pain for the keeper. Best wishes and I hope she eats for you soon.

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

Congrats on your new critter. It sounds like your temps are dialed in, and since it's only been a month that you've had her, I don't see any cause for serious concern just yet. If she's 6 months old, and at a healthy weight, she can go quite a while without food. I think you're doing the right thing by leaving her totally alone except for cage maintenance. I'd space out the feeding attempts to every 2-3 weeks until she decides to eat again and they ALL eat eventually. I'm a firm believer that the hunger ALWAYS wins. Unfortunately, BPs can be some of the most stubborn snakes and playing the long game with them can be frustrating. I've had them go 8-12 months without food and they were just fine. It's just a pain for the keeper. Best wishes and I hope she eats for you soon.

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Thank you so much! Do I wait to handle her untill she eats? I would like to get her used to handling, especially because we have little kids running around the house [not in my room] but if Its perfectly fine to wait untill she eats. Just wondering

In the long run, I agree with both posts above by El-Ziggy & mechliam...this IS what you "signed on for" when you chose a BP for a pet snake- they do fast at times.

However, your snake is young...is that right? About 7 months or so? So mostly BPs are good feeders when young- the fasting is far more common when the snakes are more mature (at least a year old or more).

Since you're a new keeper, it's also more likely that the issue of non-feeding is due to the stress of moving the snake to a new home, handling (I know, you said you haven't, just saying in general), or because the enclosure is lacking something that needs fixed- like not enough security (BPs NEED to hide, & they need temperature choices in those hides) or temperatures are too low. This is just the "voice of experience here talking"- it's hard enough to help you online, especially since we have no visuals to go by. I will add that most who breed BPs seem to favor keeping them in small enclosures for success.

Also, for best results either with their home set-up or the prey offered, it is CRITICAL that you provide what the snake was raised with & used to before you acquired it. (!) Same kind of rodent, live or f/t, same size, & same size enclosure, etc. It seems like that's where you're going wrong, & as a new keeper, that's not something you can take a chance with. Have you talked to the breeder/source of this snake to be sure you're doing the same things???

If you aren't seeing physical symptoms of illness such as bubbles in the mouth, wheezing/whistling/crackling sounds, open mouth breathing, or any other abnormal excrement, etc. -then I have to say that your vet most likely will NOT be of much help. Make sure that any vet you see with your snake (now or in the future) is experienced & qualified with reptile medicine. Vets typically don't focus on husbandry issues...it takes too long & it's not their area of expertise. They try to fix what's broken by applying their knowledge of medicine...with drugs or surgery. If that's not why you're there, you're probably wasting your money, unless you have found the rare vet whose personal passion happens to be fasting BPs. (yes, that's me, kidding...)

Oh and yes I'm leaving her alone especially now. But If I'm playing the long game and it takes months for her to eat.

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Originally Posted by BlueOrleans1290

Oh and yes I'm leaving her alone especially now. But If I'm playing the long game and it takes months for her to eat.

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how big is the rat/mouse? remember you want it to be the size of their midsection. and you want to check with who you got them from to see if they eat live or F/T, I recommend that if you do live and the BP is small enough to get two baby mice that are still on milk and try them but one at a time. I hope they get better soon!

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Originally Posted by BlueOrleans1290

Oh and yes I'm leaving her alone especially now. But If I'm playing the long game and it takes months for her to eat.

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Please bear in mind that if her hides are inadequate, her home is too large* & uncluttered, OR her temperatures are wrong, you'll just be waiting months to watch a snake that is still starving, and to the potential detriment of her health.

*see also this related thread: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...or-juvenile-BP

Even for BPs, the immune system needs good nutrition to function well- prolonged fasting is best avoided because at some point, the snake is at greater risk of actually becoming sick. (For example, among those species that truly brumate, some snakes don't recover because during their down-time, some illness took hold. Maybe bacterial, viral, fungal...but they don't all wake up healthy, or they may not wake up at all.)

"Waiting" is ONLY appropriate after you have fixed anything that doesn't measure up to her needs. ;) Please also consider that "waiting out a hunger strike" may pose more harm when you- the snake owner- are not experienced enough to really recognize when a snake is in serious health trouble. You should own a digital scale to keep track of her actual weight loss, as it's not easy to assess just visually.

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Originally Posted by BlueOrleans1290

... She does have one hide, and yes it is an on ended log, [it sitting on the heat] I made sure to block both ends but the entrance though. There is some foliage on one side, and on the other side is the end of the enclosure whish has a towel over it to keep it dark. [Its also over half of the cage to help with humidity]

She is 6 months old, and I got her almost a month ago. She was eating live fuzzy rats [and I'm still trying to work out how to get her to switch to F/T] I don't have much history on her other than that she came from a reputable breeder. It does make sense. I've tried feeding a little after mid afternoon, so I can try feeding later...

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A few things- your hide needs replaced with something like this https://www.reptilebasics.com/medium-hide-box & TWO of them, one over the UTH + one cool side of cage. The "log hide" you're using does NOT offer a snug sense of security for a shy snake, not even close. You want this type of hide that is a little bigger than your snake's coiled body- if you get one that's a little too big (for "her to grow into") you can stuff some paper towels in it to make it seem smaller to her until she grows. Even a clean cardboard BOX with the right size & with just one opening cut would be better for your snake than that log. (Cardboard boxes should be disposed of when dirty, & replaced, so the plastic ones are more practical in the long run for most ppl.) I am not endorsing a particular source for plastic hides, btw- they're available from various places, including https://www.beanfarm.com/collections...dium-side-open & also your local pet stores. I just wanted to show you exactly what is needed for your BP. What appeals to us visually doesn't necessarily pass muster for a snake- put their comfort first, always. (Does your BP use the log thing at all?)

Most ppl who successfully switch their BPs food from live to f/t don't do so when they first get the snake. It's always better to stick to whatever "program" the snake was on prior to coming home with you, then & ONLY then, after they're settled in & are feeding regularly & you know there are no immediate health risks (that would be impacted by a prolonged fast), then THAT's when you should try to change their eating habits. It's asking a lot of a newly-re-homed snake to change their food when you only just got them- & makes it so much harder, usually. Honestly, if you cannot provide their usual prey for an unknown period of time prior to trying to switch them over, it probably wasn't a good idea to come home with this snake to begin with. Most BPs can be persuaded, but not all.

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Originally Posted by BlueOrleans1290

Thank you so much! Do I wait to handle her untill she eats? I would like to get her used to handling, especially because we have little kids running around the house [not in my room] but if Its perfectly fine to wait untill she eats. Just wondering

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I think I've said this already, as perhaps have others?

Do NOT handle a new snake (especially a young one, & especially a BP) until AFTER they've eaten at least 2-3 times for you at normal intervals (a week or so between meals). (Refusing a meal because they're in shed doesn't "count" against.) Also don't handle for at least a day or 2 after each meal, so she doesn't regurgitate it- that's a major set-back (& some snakes can die from it).

BPs are docile snakes...we all have trouble waiting to handle new snakes- we "get" that, but wait anyway. No need to "get her used to handling"- & that excuse gets used a lot, LOL.

Also, little kids piling on to handle her is not a good idea. Let me remind you, the only thing that picks up a snake in the wild (as their instincts are geared for) is a predator about to eat them! The only thing worse than one person picking them up (until they learn it's safe) is a bunch of people sticking their hands in the mix, holding or touching...it's terrifying to a snake. Don't do it. Little kids mean well, but don't have the foresight or self-control- some drop animals because they panic, & some squeeze and injure them. And if your snake panics & bites, I promise you she gets dropped & maybe injured. Your snake, but my answer would be "sorry, look but you can't touch". Your snake is NOT ready for "meeting & greeting" anyone until she's eating for a while & growing up without fear of you first.

Snake-keeping success requires empathy with animals & lots of patience, above all. :snake::snake::snake:

As for the little kids, don't worry I haven't even let them see any of my snakes. I don't like the idea of their grimey hands trying to touch them. I will do the best that I can, and I will reach out to anyone that I can to try and get a love rodent.. as well as get new hides.. thank you

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...07_gallery.jpg
I cluttered up her cage a bit, added two hides, the one she is in right now is a lot more secure. I used it for my KSB, but she never even blinked an eye at it or used it anyway. Don't worry I still have hides for her too. Sas is exploring a little right now, I added a bit of foliage. Hopefully this will help her to feel more comfortable

- - - Updated - - -

And yes, they may not be the same type of hide.. I'm working on this. I'm just doing what I can with what I have now

- - - Updated - - -

Which.. she still seems to favor the wood log. She went right into that one

For a nervous new snake, you want to avoid making frequent or large changes to their home.

I'm not surprised she is still drawn to her log, as it's "familiar" at this point- time will tell if she actually prefers the greater security of fully-enclosed hides. It's worth finding out though, since she's not eating & that's essential.

More cover is best, especially in a larger enclosure. It's not about natural "cage-glamour" right now, she couldn't care less- she just needs the basics to feel secure enough to eat- that is critical.

I wasn't trying to glamor her cage. I just had some foliage that I thought might help to just clutter it up a little and not make it feel so open. The other hide I added is a loooot more secure than the log. Its just big enough for her to curl up in, and as you said, it's low to the ground. I'll leave it to her to figure it out. Although the new spot where I put the log actually makes it have a really cozy 'back nooks where it's nice and snug. Hopefully she feels a bit safer.

I won't be touching her enclosure for a while outside of maintenence or feeding. I am doing my best I promise. I have an attempt feed on this Wednesday. I can let you know if she refuses again. I've contacted many places and none of them carry live around here, so I'll keep looking.

It's looking pretty good for safety now. She doesn't have to cross much barren space to get to the other hides so I think things are certainly good enough that she should feel comfortable eating after she gets used to the new surroundings.

Definitely try feeding later, about 6-8 pm should be a great time. With your prior experience with snakes I'm sure you have a good technique for feeding frozen/thawed to your snakes. Are you trying the blow dryer to the head trick? Perhaps you can leave the rat in the cage over night under the heat lamp? I have on occasion found one of my ball pythons to be somewhat shy about eating and would wait until the room was dark and quite before taking her meal. If too much time passes between meals you could always try feeding live. I personally switched to live and have rarely if ever had one of my snakes refuse a meal. :P

As far as the movement is concerned ball pythons will be much more active at night. I personally like to handle my snake and set her back into her tank opposite where I know she likes to go so I can at least witness her slither trough her tank on her way to her favorite spot lol

Thank yall so much! Your help is really really appreciated
! I will follow the advice and see how things work out!

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Originally Posted by BlueOrleans1290

Oh and, I put the frozen fuzzy rat in water that's about 92 degrees for 30 mins or untill it's completely floppy on the tongs. Then once it is, I put it in another cup with 92 degree water to warm it up again.

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FYI, it's actually preferable to thaw rodents in COOL water (& changing the water when it gets too cold) or thawing in the refrigerator (yucky for you & takes longer- water is fastest!) to minimize spoilage that our snakes can SMELL long before we can. Bear in mind that some snakes (like king snakes) may not reject prey that's a bit "ripe" (they sometimes consume road-kill) but for snakes that are picky, like a BP, you don't want to give them ANY reason to reject a meal...especially when the snake is dangerously thin to begin with. ;) BPs are snakes that prefer live & fresh, so that's what you want to imitate.

On this & other forums you'll find many different suggestions for thawing & offering prey to snakes. I cannot prevent that confusion, but if you consider the food safety guidelines that apply to our own meat (with reminders often seen around Thanksgiving time to minimize the number of "food-poisoning" from holiday meals), that should settle the matter for you. Thawing a turkey is either done by thawing in the refrigerator, OR by thawing (faster) in cold water. Bacteria doesn't proliferate in cold water...but it loves warm. Consider that we also COOK our meat, which destroys dangerous bacteria, so even if you thaw your food on the countertop, you won't be eating it raw....but your :snake: will be.

Back to preparing prey to feed a snake:
Once the prey item is thawed in cool water (check thickest part by feeling with your hand- make sure it's soft throughout), then immerse in very warm (not boiling!) water for several minutes, long enough to warm it up. The time it takes will depend upon the size of the rodent. Many here also have great success using a blow-dryer on the rodent, immediately prior to feeding. (especially the head area where you want the snake to strike)

For a thin snake that hasn't eaten in a while, offer food that's on the small side: you want to make sure she can digest it, & won't barf it back up. A small meal is far more likely to be tolerated than something larger- you need for her to keep this meal down, okay?

It would increase your odds of success if you offer exactly what she was supposedly eating for the prior owner- I believe you said live baby rats? Mice smell different from rats, & it matters greatly to some snakes, but either way, I hope she eats for you.

Thank you very much for the useful information! She was eating live fuzzy rats, and I'm trying to feed her dead fuzzy rats lol. She just broke her shed and is shedding right now though. The prey Item I think could be small enough because it doesn't really fill the palm of my hand. Its about the same size as the live, I will follow those instructions on preparing the rodent. And if she refuses this next meal, I will be trying something else. She didn't seem too terribly thin to me.. but she is on the small side a bit. I will be feeding her soon. Hopefully she will take 🙏

Do I need to offer smaller than a fuzzy rat?.. I feel that if I did it wouldn't be near as filling or anything. I really want her to keep this meal down too. Hopefully, I pray she will take this next meal. Her temps are fine and so is her humidity now, her body temp is about 86 right now. So I hope she will eat.

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Originally Posted by BlueOrleans1290

She didn't seem too terribly thin to me.. but she is on the small side a bit. I will be feeding her soon. Hopefully she will take ��

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You've only posted that one photo of her tail-end, but I'll be honest, I've never seen a BP in such poor condition. I want you to be aware of how important it is to get her to eat. Even if it's a live fuzzy mouse. And again, don't try to feed too much right now...if it leaves a "bump" in her mid-section, she will likely have trouble digesting it.

It's not about "filling her up"...it's all about not overwhelming her digestive system at this time. When a snake is starving, they may not have adequate digestive enzymes available for larger prey. I'm telling you this with about 35 years of keeping & rescuing snakes...I've been very concerned ever since you posted that one photo of her.

She needs "slow & steady" regular small meals to regain her body weight. She's way too skinny- her body resembles a colubrid more than a BP. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but I hope you can get her healthy.

Remember, wait until evening to offer food.

Ah.. alright. I know she needs to eat really soon. I promise I'm doing the best that I can. I've not had her yet for a month. I can buy a size smaller rat.. ill post more pictures of her

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...19_gallery.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...20_gallery.jpg