Help! Is chronic prolapse a good reason to euthanize?

I purchased my baby bp, Ziti, from petco 5 months ago (I know that was my first mistake) and after 4 days of having her she prolapsed. At that point I took her back to petco because they were willing to give her free vet care since I had just purchased her. They concluded that the reason for the prolapse was dehydration so after she came back from the two weeks of antibiotics I made sure to keep her hydrated and stress free. From that point on, I have kept her humidity at 50-60% and I have injected each meal with warm water to ensure she was getting water intake. I also made sure to clutter her enclosure with plenty of hiding spaces so she could feel secure and stress free.
Unfortunately though, despite my best efforts she has been regularly prolapsing each time she poops. I've been able to reset it by reducing swelling with sugar paste and massaging it back into place but since this is a reoccurring issue I decided to bring her back into the vet. What they told me was that if the issue is found to not be caused by parasites we would have to have a discussion about her quality of life.
I'm hoping for multiple opinions before I decide to put down my otherwise seemingly healthy little noodle. I love and care about her so much I just want whats best for her.

First off, welcome to the forums. I hate that this has to be the topic of your first post, but I hope that you stick around even after this situation is resolved.

If this continues being an issue, and the vet really wants to have the quality of life conversation I would have it. Ask him/her to educate you on what kind of issues your BP is going to have and what ALL your options are. Sometimes I think vets suggest euthanizing because there's a concern that the owner won't want to pay what it'll cost to treat, so make sure you ask what all the options are. At the end of the day, no one wants to euthanize a pet, its sad regardless of the type of animal. I very rarely have to, but have had to euthanize tropical fish for one reason or another, and even something as small as that hurts my heart to see it go.

Sometimes, euthanizing is the best option, but again I would want to know what every options is outside of that. Once you've reviewed all your options with the vet, then unfortunately it's up to you to make that choice. Put the needs of your pet first, and even if it's not the choice you want to make, make the call that's best for Ziti.

Hey, thank you for your input. Im currently trying to get in contact with a different vet because the petco vet doesn't even want to discuss other options with me and im not willing to euthanize until I know thats the only option for her. But of course if the vet says the same i will do what is best for her comfort and well being.

I agree with Hugsplox's response above. I think I recall someone here whose vet told them it can also be a genetic flaw causing this, but the other things mentioned are factors (dehydration from mites &/or poor hydration from improper care- pet stores are known for keeping BPs on the wrong substrates & not supplying proper humidity).

Another option would be surgical repair, but considering the pain & suffering involved, euthanasia might be the kinder option, because the G.I. tract is pretty essential to life- even though BPs can go a long time without eating, they still need to pass urates, so try to imagine? If excretion is painful & difficult, constipation is likely to recur- constipation makes another prolapse far more likely.

I am NOT a vet, just a long-time snake lover & keeper, so don't take mine as the last word either. With surgery, there is also the need for antibiotics & pain medication (you'd probably have to learn to give injections at home) & the antibiotics themselves are rough on a snake's body. It's far easier to keep a snake healthy than to get them well again.

I have no idea where you are, but in most areas, you'll have enough trouble finding a qualified herp vet, much less one with enough experience for such a surgery. This site may help you locate one: https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

And yes, welcome- sorry it's not under happier circumstances. You're a caring owner, sorry you're off to such a rough start keeping snakes. It might help you to know that my second snake, many years ago, was a corn snake that came from a pet store also, & I couldn't save her either, but I tried. (Not the same issue, btw.) :snake:

If the Petco vet hasn't even considered surgical repair, you need another opinion. It's a pretty minor surgery with a decent success rate, but there is no guarantee of success of course. And the more frequently this little one prolapses in the meantime, the less likely surgical repair is to be effective.

Please do use the ARAV link above to see if there is a reptile veterinarian in your area. Even if there is not, you can try to set up a telephone consult with one (just offer to pay for it like a regular appointment).

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Originally Posted by Caitlin

If the Petco vet hasn't even considered surgical repair, you need another opinion. It's a pretty minor surgery with a decent success rate, but there is no guarantee of success of course. And the more frequently this little one prolapses in the meantime, the less likely surgical repair is to be effective.

Please do use the ARAV link above to see if there is a reptile veterinarian in your area. Even if there is not, you can try to set up a telephone consult with one (just offer to pay for it like a regular appointment).

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I'm glad to know that (at least in some areas?) they're "gaining" on this issue. As you said though, not a guarantee.

I want to talk more about the option of a Cloacopexy surgery, but your'e right, it's extremely difficult to find an experienced vet that I can even talk to about this let alone have preform the procedure. Ive been contacting as many experts and vets as I can just to see what they say before moving forward. It's quite frustrating. I really don't want to give up on her that easily. I have also put in multiple requests for telephone consults but have heard nothing back yet.

It doesn't help that (depending on where you are) winter weather & pandemic issues make everything just that much harder to accomplish. Please stay safe, & I sure wish you luck with this. Your heart's in the right place.

Thank you so much!

Im going to try setting her up in a storage bin with paper towels for bedding in the meantime so I can more easily monitor her prolapses and keep it clean.

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Originally Posted by meganp

I want to talk more about the option of a Cloacopexy surgery, but your'e right, it's extremely difficult to find an experienced vet that I can even talk to about this let alone have preform the procedure. Ive been contacting as many experts and vets as I can just to see what they say before moving forward. It's quite frustrating. I really don't want to give up on her that easily. I have also put in multiple requests for telephone consults but have heard nothing back yet.

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Yea it can be incredibly hard to find someone who specializes in reptiles. Even though the hobby is huge (in my opinion) now, I think the further you get from the big cities the harder it is to find someone that can take care of your pet.

I know this isn't what anyone wants to hear, but it may be worth considering a different pet. I only say that because this is what I would consider an emergency situation, and I would hate for you to have to euthanize Ziti, get another BP, and then have another emergency, only for that to be your only option again because there's no vets anywhere near you that are capable of doing anything else.

That's just my opinion though and I don't want to cause you more stress during an already stressful time. Just something to think about.

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Originally Posted by Hugsplox

Yea it can be incredibly hard to find someone who specializes in reptiles. Even though the hobby is huge (in my opinion) now, I think the further you get from the big cities the harder it is to find someone that can take care of your pet.

I know this isn't what anyone wants to hear, but it may be worth considering a different pet. I only say that because this is what I would consider an emergency situation, and I would hate for you to have to euthanize Ziti, get another BP, and then have another emergency, only for that to be your only option again because there's no vets anywhere near you that are capable of doing anything else.

That's just my opinion though and I don't want to cause you more stress during an already stressful time. Just something to think about.

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I think this is a bit of a double edged sword. If everyone who ran into this issue gave up on reptiles entirely, we wouldn't have quality reptile vets at all because there just wouldn't have been enough momentum of demand for it to get where it is today. I think it comes down to each individual's decision of whether or not they want to take the risk and deal with the heartbreak when complicated situations arise that are beyond the scope of the vets in the area. Certainly the need for surgeries for non-breeding animals aren't commonplace in BP's, but it does happen. As much as I wish for every animal to have top care and the best technology available to their owners, the technology only continues to improve with the demand, which requires that some people brave things as they are while progress is being made. I'm not suggesting we just act carelessly and try to keep animals way past our means, but as someone who got in a long time ago and lived through a lot of the stage of toughing it out without quality reptile vets available anywhere, I see the merit it being willing to push the envelope a little. Just my 2c, and I certainly respect where you are coming from.

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

I think this is a bit of a double edged sword. If everyone who ran into this issue gave up on reptiles entirely, we wouldn't have quality reptile vets at all because there just wouldn't have been enough momentum of demand for it to get where it is today. I think it comes down to each individual's decision of whether or not they want to take the risk and deal with the heartbreak when complicated situations arise that are beyond the scope of the vets in the area. Certainly the need for surgeries for non-breeding animals aren't commonplace in BP's, but it does happen. As much as I wish for every animal to have top care and the best technology available to their owners, the technology only continues to improve with the demand, which requires that some people brave things as they are while progress is being made. I'm not suggesting we just act carelessly and try to keep animals way past our means, but as someone who got in a long time ago and lived through a lot of the stage of toughing it out without quality reptile vets available anywhere, I see the merit it being willing to push the envelope a little. Just my 2c, and I certainly respect where you are coming from.

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No I 100% agree with what you're saying, and I don't mean to come off as if I'm trying to push anyone away from keeping reptiles, like you said it's just up to each individual to decide if they want to take on that risk. I had that conversation with myself years ago over my first BP, and then when I got back into the hobby I had it again. You also made a really good point as far as if people just give up when there isn't a reptile vet in the area, the demand for a reptile vet disappears, and then you have no vet lol.

I think my opinion is influenced a lot by the amount of people that post on here with, what I would consider, major medical issues that need to be addressed by a vet, and then when we all tell them that they say "the closest vet is 12 hours away so I can't." It just bums me out a little, and for me, I'd rather not have the animal than bring it to a place that I can't get it help if something happens.

Just a thought but do you feed f/t? If so inject the feeder with a bit of flaxseed oil. It should pass straight through, won't harm the snake, and should help any solid waste slide out more easily. If your snake doesn't have to strain as much to eliminate waste that may help it stop prolapsing.

I have a retic that had the surgery and she's fine years later.

I currently have a snake that has a cancerous tumor in his tail, close to his cloaca. Surgery is not an option due to how close it is to the cloaca.

I had my lizard seen by an AMAV vet, he was terrible lol. I have a Merauke bts, and he was debating with me that I had a northern. Two different lizards that need opposite husbandry requirements. Needless to say, I never went back. In my experience, you never really know if you have a vet who knows his of her stuff until after speaking with them in person and getting your pet examined.

I don't know where you are. I can recommend my vet if you live in South FL. Otherwise, for a problem like this, the vet should perform a physical exam, x-rays and ultrasound if necessary to see if it's a tumor that is causing such problems. It seems like your snake is having trouble pushing poop out, and if it is hydrated already, it could be a tumor or a mass near the cloaca/intestinal area causing the difficulty of pushing, which could cause the prolapse. That is what I'm expecting from my own snake: the mass grows too big, causing him to push too hard and prolapse, then I will put him to sleep. But for your situation, there may still be hope, especially it seems you don't feel any obvious lump (It could be very small).

Not much can be done until x-rays are done. It's terrible to go through this. When I adopted my first bearded dragon, all my excitement turned into sadness after I find out she had been gravely ill, and I had to put her down. The shock, anger and sadness stopped me from getting another beardie for a year until I got Aegon, who unfortunately recently was pts due to cancer. I understand the pain of not knowing what to do, and the anger and frustration of how little that can be done, but don't give up. Whatever happens, I hope this doesn't deter you from owning more reptiles.

That's a great suggestion I will definitely try that! I do feed her f/t hoppers that I have been injecting with warm water to keep her hydrated, but I will definitely give that a shot this Thursday when I feed her again.

Although I am sad and frustrated that petco produced such a genetic mess that I adopted and fell in love with, I don't plan to give up on my love for reptiles. I hope that I can nurse her back to health but if I comes down to me having to euthanize her I will definitely be in the market for another baby bp, hopefully from someone who knows what they are doing.

I know we all wish you & your little one the very best. She's lucky to have you fighting for her.

It has been almost a year since her last prolapse!!!

Ziti is now the perfect picture of health! After moving her to her storage bin (that became her home) and injecting several meals with flax seed oil and water (basically giving her diarrhea so she wouldn't have to strain to poop), she stopped prolapsing all together! I am pleased to say that she is going to live a perfectly happy and healthy life. That being said, I want anyone and everyone who is reading this to know that PETCO DOES NOT CARE about the well being of their animals after they have left their care. I believe their main goal was to get me to stop making them pay vet bills, by just killing her instead. I say this because their first reaction was euthanasia and they had no intention of educating me on the different possible options for treatment. Luckily I was stubborn enough to take matters into my own hands and talk to experts so I could educate myself to the best of my ability. I now know that the prolapsing was most likely caused by a combination of stress and dehydration. If I could go back in time and do anything differently I would force myself to put her in the storage bin from day one. I was too stubborn back then and insisted I'd have a terrarium for her for aesthetic purposes (selfish, I know), But the terrarium I had her in was far too open and bright. After going through what I went through with her though, I've learned my lesson that her comfort should ALWAYS come first. Because any form of discomfort or stress will leave your noodle wide open for all different kinds of medical issues.

Now all I do is inject her meal with a little water, just as a preventative measure, and all of her poops have been completely normal and painless. She's even eating small rats now! I'm so proud of how far she has come! :)

I want to say a BIG thank you to everyone who helped me through this! I can't imagine life without her now, and every person I got information from helped to keep her alive. I am so grateful to this forum and every vet and breeder I was able to contact for information outside of this.

ALWAYS MAKE SURE YOU KNOW ALL OF YOUR OPTIONS BEFORE MAKING ANY DRASTIC DECISIONS FOR YOUR SNAKES HEALTH!!!!

Again, thank you all so much for your help!

What a GREAT update!!! :gj:

This is a great update!
I had only seen your story today, had I seen it then, I would have probably made many of the same suggestions. I think the only thing I might have suggested if it had been an older snake and not a hatchling, would be a parasite check or general deworming just in case since they can sometimes be known to cause issues like that. In hatchlings, I think more of the issue I've seen is just that they don't have enough muscle strength to 'contain' the bowel after the initial stressed prolapse and need a little extra TLC to get things to where you are today.


Interestingly enough we had a vet for Petsmart do a purse string suture for a chronically prolapsing hatchling a couple years ago. It's a VERY simple procedure and takes only minutes. It worked great and after a couple weeks of feeding very small meals (just pinky mice) we slowly moved up to the right size and spaced out the feedings to every 10-14 days just to make sure the poop was moving well and not causing issues.
I wouldn't be surprised if that was where Petco was leaning to go with that. A lot of the care depends on where you are and who you have access to. I was really lucky and my store had access to 3 vets in the building who were willing to look up info and TRY when we had emergencies. And we had a local reptile specialist we were approved for, but that was usually the follow up as his waitlist was always long. I've seen other stores where the care can be so frustrating because they can't access that sort of medical team. Those are the stores that seem to have the least knowledge in the employees and then the vets just won't understand. And of course the problem with big box stores is really that they just want to make the money off the merch. They don't make much off the animals themselves and they don't do enough to train people to care for them.

I'm so glad you were able to look past that and that you were able to find some great advice. ♥