Live feeding: in-tank or separate tub?

Hi:)

I have heard lots of conflicting opinions on whether it is better to feed in the tank or in a separate tub. I used to always feed my BP in her tank, but because I feed live I was taking all the stuff out of her enclosure every time and then putting it back in after she was done swallowing. I worried this might be stressing her out because she doesn’t like when I change ANYTHING about her little home but I think the rat would have too many places to hide if I left all her stuff in there. So anyways, I started feeding her in a plastic tub and very gently moving her back into her tank after the feeding, even though I’m wary about having to touch her after eating. She ate successfully in this tub twice but since then she has been refusing food for 2 months, which she has never done before. Should I try offering food in her cage again, and, if so, should I still move all the clutter out? Kind of a pain because her place is pretty packed. Thanks for any advice!!

You should feed in the cage as feeding in another container only increases your chances of a bite or accidental regurge by handling/moving the snake. Why not offer f/t instead of live so you don't have to move everything or worry about it? I'd be looking into your temps and setup if the snake has refused food for two months though.

I just couldn’t deal with thawing out a frozen rat, plus I think live feeding offers good enrichment. And since this hunger strike I’ve invested in all the gear to make sure my temps and humidity are perfect; I have 92 degree surface temp on the hotspot and about 78 degrees ambient temp on the cool side with 60% humidity. The guy at my reptile store said not to worry too much bc his BP also goes off feed in the winter, but I am concerned. She has a vet appt this week. But anyways thank U for the advice and I will try offering food again inside of the tank this time

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Originally Posted by kalismami

I just couldn’t deal with thawing out a frozen rat, plus I think live feeding offers good enrichment. And since this hunger strike I’ve invested in all the gear to make sure my temps and humidity are perfect; I have 92 degree surface temp on the hotspot and about 78 degrees ambient temp on the cool side with 60% humidity. The guy at my reptile store said not to worry too much bc his BP also goes off feed in the winter, but I am concerned. She has a vet appt this week. But anyways thank U for the advice and I will try offering food again inside of the tank this time

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I think this is less an issue with what you're feeding and more an issue with how you're feeding. There really isn't any need to go in and remove everything from the enclosure, all you're doing is causing stress to the snake right before throwing a rat in with her. Remember in the wild these guys are ambush predators, and no one is sweeping into their environment and tidying up before a rat decides to walk past whatever burrow they're hiding in.

I would recommend waiting a couple of weeks and trying again, this time not removing anything. When I say two weeks I mean from the last feeding attempt you made. So if say you tried to feed on Friday the 5th, try again on the 19th. Let her get hungry and then without disrupting her entire environment, try again.

Thank you, I’m going to try again on the 14th and hopefully this will work!

Also, how long do y’all recommend keeping the rat in the tank before determining she just isn’t gonna eat it?

I don't feed live anymore for a number of reasons but I'm not going to try and change your mind. It's your choice. I used to do it simply because back then I didn't know f/t even existed and at the time I wasn't comfortable with killing the rat myself for pre-killed. I think removing the animal from their enclosure is a lot more disruptive than removing some items, but I still think removing the items is probably pretty disruptive, especially if you say you are trying to give "enrichment" through the hunting process. I understand wanting to be able to observe and make sure the rat isn't attacking him, so I think the solution might be to change what you have in the enclosure so it's still cluttered and feels like it has "hiding spots" to her, but you can still see what's going on. This is not really an option if you want things looking really naturalistic, but you could use translucent plastic hides that give them the cozy feeling of a burrow and block some light, but you can still view, and then whatever else like plants and things are in there aren't so cluttered that you have huge blind spots.

If you change your mind about live feeding, here is my method to thawing that makes things really easy (I have a lot of snakes to feed, especially when I've got a bunch of hatchlings, and I don't have time to waste):
-One or two days before feeding depending on the size of rodent I take the prey items I will be feeding out of the freezer and put them in the fridge, so I don't have to mess around swapping water over and over to keep it thawing safely.
-About 15-20 mins before feeding I put the prey (still in a ziplock) in a large pot of hot water and set myself a timer on my phone and go do something else while I wait.
-Timer goes off, I feed the snake, and unless it's a hatchling or snake I'm trying to switch to a different food, I just offer the item and it's usually struck immediately. If not, I set it on a hide and close the enclosure up and go about whatever I need to do and check back an hour later or so and grab it out to throw away if it didn't get eaten.
To me this process is a heck of a lot easier than dealing with live rodents, which I still do from time to time for stubborn hatchlings.

I’d feed in the tank as well. I guess removing all the enclosure furnishings is just another drawback to feeding live. I wouldn’t leave the live prey in longer than 15-30 minutes. If they haven’t eaten by then they’re probably not going to. What do you do with the refused meals btw? Do you breed your own feeders?

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Originally Posted by kalismami

Also, how long do y’all recommend keeping the rat in the tank before determining she just isn’t gonna eat it?

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Typically I know almost immediately if mine is going to eat or not. If he's eating that rat is wrapped in 5-10 minutes, and I usually remove after 20-30 if he's not showing any interest. Of course feeding live you never want to walk away, even for a second, while the rat is in there. I really want to stress that point, that you never EVER leave a live feeder in with your snake without you watching. When you're on fuzzies and pups you'd probably be okay, but I'd always rather play it safe.

Try to feed at night, I prefer 9pm as that's several hours after the lights in my reptile room go out. I like to leave the rat in a container in the room so the scent is out there. Most of the time my guy is coming out of the enclosure when I open it to look for the rat. I'd also recommend getting a good pair of metal feeding thongs to redirect any bites that may occur if you're going to continue feeding live.

Also to what Nikkubus said, maybe try rearranging the enclosure on a day you're not feeing. I have plenty of clutter in my tank but if my guy comes out of his warm hide and takes a left, there's a good size "clearing" where I typically put the rat. That way I can see what the BP is doing, I can see what the rate is doing, and if he tries to run off and hide somewhere I just gently redirect him with the thongs.

I also want to say before anyone jumps in and starts the F/T vs Live feeding debate, that this is just the method I use, that works for me. Feeding live isn't for everyone, and it's not for every snake. This works for me and my animal, and is why I continue doing it. It's up to each and every keeper to find what works for their animal, and ask long as you're willing to put the extra time into it to make sure it's safe, you should be fine.

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

I’d feed in the tank as well. I guess removing all the enclosure furnishings is just another drawback to feeding live. I wouldn’t leave the live prey in longer than 15-30 minutes. If they haven’t eaten by then they’re probably not going to. What do you do with the refused meals btw? Do you breed your own feeders?

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Funnily enough I go to a super pet friendly college so I have actually found people who have asked me to “adopt” the rats my snake has refused...not sure how well an inbred feeder rat would do as a pet but who knows ! I have also just set one free, it literally frolicked in the grass. I guess live feeding is starting to become a pain because of things like this but before she got so picky I used to consider it much more low maintenance! Just not sure if she would even eat a dead rat since she never has.

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Originally Posted by Hugsplox

Typically I know almost immediately if mine is going to eat or not. If he's eating that rat is wrapped in 5-10 minutes, and I usually remove after 20-30 if he's not showing any interest. Of course feeding live you never want to walk away, even for a second, while the rat is in there. I really want to stress that point, that you never EVER leave a live feeder in with your snake without you watching. When you're on fuzzies and pups you'd probably be okay, but I'd always rather play it safe.

Try to feed at night, I prefer 9pm as that's several hours after the lights in my reptile room go out. I like to leave the rat in a container in the room so the scent is out there. Most of the time my guy is coming out of the enclosure when I open it to look for the rat. I'd also recommend getting a good pair of metal feeding thongs to redirect any bites that may occur if you're going to continue feeding live.

Also to what Nikkubus said, maybe try rearranging the enclosure on a day you're not feeing. I have plenty of clutter in my tank but if my guy comes out of his warm hide and takes a left, there's a good size "clearing" where I typically put the rat. That way I can see what the BP is doing, I can see what the rate is doing, and if he tries to run off and hide somewhere I just gently redirect him with the thongs.

I also want to say before anyone jumps in and starts the F/T vs Live feeding debate, that this is just the method I use, that works for me. Feeding live isn't for everyone, and it's not for every snake. This works for me and my animal, and is why I continue doing it. It's up to each and every keeper to find what works for their animal, and ask long as you're willing to put the extra time into it to make sure it's safe, you should be fine.

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thanks so much for this! I will definitely try feeding at night instead and metal prongs seem helpful too bc I hate touching the rats. Her pickiness is a recent development and live feeding has been smooth sailing for me u til recently, seems more low maintenance and when she wants to eat she strikes within 2 minutes—the one time I fed her frozen it did not go that well.... Also, so many people have warned me about rats attacking my snake but this has never been an issue for me! One time I had a rat chew through its box when I was doing some pre-scenting and I wasn’t around so my roommate panicked and just put the rat in the cage with her but she didn’t want to eat and by the time I got back the rat was asleep in the cage with her �� I obviously checked her thoroughly for any bites/scratches and found none.

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

I don't feed live anymore for a number of reasons but I'm not going to try and change your mind. It's your choice. I used to do it simply because back then I didn't know f/t even existed and at the time I wasn't comfortable with killing the rat myself for pre-killed. I think removing the animal from their enclosure is a lot more disruptive than removing some items, but I still think removing the items is probably pretty disruptive, especially if you say you are trying to give "enrichment" through the hunting process. I understand wanting to be able to observe and make sure the rat isn't attacking him, so I think the solution might be to change what you have in the enclosure so it's still cluttered and feels like it has "hiding spots" to her, but you can still see what's going on. This is not really an option if you want things looking really naturalistic, but you could use translucent plastic hides that give them the cozy feeling of a burrow and block some light, but you can still view, and then whatever else like plants and things are in there aren't so cluttered that you have huge blind spots.

If you change your mind about live feeding, here is my method to thawing that makes things really easy (I have a lot of snakes to feed, especially when I've got a bunch of hatchlings, and I don't have time to waste):
-One or two days before feeding depending on the size of rodent I take the prey items I will be feeding out of the freezer and put them in the fridge, so I don't have to mess around swapping water over and over to keep it thawing safely.
-About 15-20 mins before feeding I put the prey (still in a ziplock) in a large pot of hot water and set myself a timer on my phone and go do something else while I wait.
-Timer goes off, I feed the snake, and unless it's a hatchling or snake I'm trying to switch to a different food, I just offer the item and it's usually struck immediately. If not, I set it on a hide and close the enclosure up and go about whatever I need to do and check back an hour later or so and grab it out to throw away if it didn't get eaten.
To me this process is a heck of a lot easier than dealing with live rodents, which I still do from time to time for stubborn hatchlings.

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If I don’t have success with this next live feed I will certainly try this method instead. When she is being a good eater live feeding is pretty easy because I just dump the rat in straight from the box and she will strike within a couple minutes so the process is super quick and I don’t have to touch a rat. And I’ll prolly get some hate for sympathizing with rats on a reptile forum but I am an animal lover and for whatever reason having my snake do the deed of killing the rat feels much more humane to me that pre-killing a rat or having to manhandle a rats corpse. However I’m super sick of figuring out what to do with the rats she refuses considering she is my one and only snake so I don’t have anyone else to feed them to. Also, I appreciate the advice on decluttering a bit but I am too attached to having her cage look pretty �� I can watch through the mesh top and will probably just block the entrances to her hides only for the duration of the feed and maybe just take out only her vine of fake plants, hopefully that won’t stress her out too much.

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Originally Posted by kalismami

Funnily enough I go to a super pet friendly college so I have actually found people who have asked me to “adopt” the rats my snake has refused...not sure how well an inbred feeder rat would do as a pet but who knows ! I have also just set one free, it literally frolicked in the grass. I guess live feeding is starting to become a pain because of things like this but before she got so picky I used to consider it much more low maintenance! Just not sure if she would even eat a dead rat since she never has.

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I do not offer live food, for a variety of reasons, but a big one with BP's is what to do with the rats if the do not eat. Another is easy storage of food (I have 7 snakes though, so it's a bigger issue than with just 1).

Fine if you can find people to "adopt" rats that do not become food, but I wouldn't count on that.

Letting a feed rat go into the wild is not the best idea, to say the least, and IMO, is irresponsible to nature and probably that animal as well.

Snakes generally do not eat dead prey in the wild. However, many in captivity do learn to and could care less. They do not enjoy killing, nor do they like the "hunt." They do not have the brain capacity for enjoyment. They do like to eat because it equates to survival. The idea of a snake killing for enrichment is archaic and anthropomorphizing at it's best. Snakes kill to eat. Period.

If you are going to feed live, be responsible about it. That means feeding the snake in his/her enclosure (that's why you started the thread) because it's best for the snake, not leaving a live meal unattended at all, because that's what best for the snake, and finding humane ways to deal with live rats. They are living creatures too. Yes, they are snake food, and nature can be cruel, but don't compound the problem. See if your pet store will take them back, etc. or start feeding F/T which is generally safer for you snake anyway. It also solves your disposal issues. Not sure what you have against thawing a rat out, but that's your prerogative.

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Originally Posted by kalismami

If I don’t have success with this next live feed I will certainly try this method instead. When she is being a good eater live feeding is pretty easy because I just dump the rat in straight from the box and she will strike within a couple minutes so the process is super quick and I don’t have to touch a rat. And I’ll prolly get some hate for sympathizing with rats on a reptile forum but I am an animal lover and for whatever reason having my snake do the deed of killing the rat feels much more humane to me that pre-killing a rat or having to manhandle a rats corpse. However I’m super sick of figuring out what to do with the rats she refuses considering she is my one and only snake so I don’t have anyone else to feed them to.

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For what's worth. Good rodent suppliers of F/T prey, kill the prey humanely and relatively painlessly. In my opinion, it's better than being killed by a snake.

I think it is a good option for you.

Also, BP's tend to go on and off feed, so if you can get your BP to take F/T, the worst case scenario is throwing out a dead rat that was inexpensive to begin with. F/T rats are generally much cheaper than live rats.

I understand as someone who adores rats that handling dead ones can be intimidating, but it's no different than handling a human food item like a dead chicken/cow if you can work through the emotional part with logic. Somehow the snake has to eat, as long as the rat is killed humanely, there is no reason it's any worse to buy frozen than to let the snake do it's own killing.

I wouldn't introduce a feeder/pet rat into the wild for so many reasons. They don't have the natural selection a wild rat does and their chances of survival are pretty grim. If they do happen to meet up with a wild lady rat and mate, it's going to be passing those captive bred genes into a bunch of wild offspring and all of them are going to have a hard time. Letting someone adopt them is fine but if there are no takers it's best to find some backup like a person near you like another snake owner with a garbage disposal snake. I hate even wasting frozen/thawed if I can help it because it's a life that was taken for no reason, so I have a couple adult males that eat exclusively what other snakes have refused, and being mature they can handle the weird intervals of sometimes a lot, sometimes nothing for a month. They are way too big to be eating some of the stuff my young colubrids refuse, but now I've got my young retics to be garbage disposals for those small feeder sizes till they do a lot of growing haha.

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Originally Posted by dakski

I do not offer live food, for a variety of reasons, but a big one with BP's is what to do with the rats if the do not eat. Another is easy storage of food (I have 7 snakes though, so it's a bigger issue than with just 1).

Fine if you can find people to "adopt" rats that do not become food, but I wouldn't count on that.

Letting a feed rat go into the wild is not the best idea, to say the least, and IMO, is irresponsible to nature and probably that animal as well.

Snakes generally do not eat dead prey in the wild. However, many in captivity do learn to and could care less. They do not enjoy killing, nor do they like the "hunt." They do not have the brain capacity for enjoyment. They do like to eat because it equates to survival. The idea of a snake killing for enrichment is archaic and anthropomorphizing at it's best. Snakes kill to eat. Period.

If you are going to feed live, be responsible about it. That means feeding the snake in his/her enclosure (that's why you started the thread) because it's best for the snake, not leaving a live meal unattended at all, because that's what best for the snake, and finding humane ways to deal with live rats. They are living creatures too. Yes, they are snake food, and nature can be cruel, but don't compound the problem. See if your pet store will take them back, etc. or start feeding F/T which is generally safer for you snake anyway. It also solves your disposal issues. Not sure what you have against thawing a rat out, but that's your prerogative.

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I get your point about feeding not being enrichment but rather survival; it would have been more appropriate for me to explain that it is fulfilling for me as a pet owner to watch her hunt and display her natural adaptations! I care very much about my snake and am as responsible as I can be but she is my first so I have made mistakes—feeding in another Tub was one of them but the guy I buy my rats from advised me to do so but I’m glad I have learned more from you guys. And believe me I felt terrible for releasing the rat the next day, I just panicked since it was her first time refusing food. I have also taken them back to the pet store. And the rat thawing is just gross to me, that’s all. Plus when live feeds go smoothly the process is quicker but I’m realizing that repercussion of them not going well make it not worth it. I’ll probably be moving to f/t soon—but since she is so picky right now should I wait to transition until she’s eating regularly again? I don’t mean to overwhelm you with questions, but I just find it hard to find answers to thing like this with a simple google search and don’t want to continue making mistakes

Feed in the same tub, helps prevent missed meal and regurgitation... when feeding live I never leave the rodent unattended. If your snake doesn’t eat within 2 minutes, I remove the rodent and try again in an hour. If the snake doesn’t eat then.... there’s always next week.

Well I was hoping to just figure out the separate feeding tub debate but it turns out all of y’all’s comments have swayed me towards changing what I feed with too! I guess it’s time for me to buck up and deal with the dead and frozen rats ... I don’t even eat meat or anything like that which is why I was so resistant to having to handle a dead rat bc it’s just out of my comfort zone and gross to me but obviously I’ll do whatever is best for my snake. And I know I was dumb for releasing a rat but like I said this is a new situation for me since my snake has always been a good eater. Thanks everyone! PS I have a couple pictures of my girl Kali and her kingdom in my gallery if anyone cares to look...I like showing her off :)

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Originally Posted by kalismami

I get your point about feeding not being enrichment but rather survival; it would have been more appropriate for me to explain that it is fulfilling for me as a pet owner to watch her hunt and display her natural adaptations! I care very much about my snake and am as responsible as I can be but she is my first so I have made mistakes—feeding in another Tub was one of them but the guy I buy my rats from advised me to do so but I’m glad I have learned more from you guys. And believe me I felt terrible for releasing the rat the next day, I just panicked since it was her first time refusing food. I have also taken them back to the pet store. And the rat thawing is just gross to me, that’s all. Plus when live feeds go smoothly the process is quicker but I’m realizing that repercussion of them not going well make it not worth it. I’ll probably be moving to f/t soon—but since she is so picky right now should I wait to transition until she’s eating regularly again? I don’t mean to overwhelm you with questions, but I just find it hard to find answers to thing like this with a simple google search and don’t want to continue making mistakes

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Some snakes switch to F/T right away, others it takes a little time.

Before we can answer about the switching part. How old is she? How much does she weigh? What food item is she on now (rat size)?

Then, when you are ready, we can tell you how to properly defrost and then heat and present the rodent so she thinks it's alive and is more likely to take it.

Just to be clear, it's your choice. If you think feeding live is better for you, that's fine. Just follow the safety guidelines and find proper homes/stores/etc. to take back the live rats.

It just sounds like F/T is much easier in your case, especially if your snake switches.

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Originally Posted by dakski

Some snakes switch to F/T right away, others it takes a little time.

Before we can answer about the switching part. How old is she? How much does she weigh? What food item is she on now (rat size)?

Then, when you are ready, we can tell you how to properly defrost and then heat and present the rodent so she thinks it's alive and is more likely to take it.

Just to be clear, it's your choice. If you think feeding live is better for you, that's fine. Just follow the safety guidelines and find proper homes/stores/etc. to take back the live rats.

It just sounds like F/T is much easier in your case, especially if your snake switches.

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yes I agree it’s looking like f/t will be easier. My snake is 2 years old and honestly I have no clue how much she weighs but I’m fairly sure she’s over 4 feet and is pretty thick, I have pictures of her in my gallery. She eats medium rats right now and is teetering on needing to move up to large ones, but I’ve noticed there’s a lot of discrepancies with the sizes depending on where I buy my rats from.

I keep snakes and pet rats, including 1 that was a feeder rat that we ended up keeping as a pet. The sweetest of the bunch, though shy at first, he licks our hands and enjoys being scratched on the head. Feeder rats make good pets if time and patience to tame is given, they are prone to more health problems but not certainly guaranteed.

I know you feel bad after you released that rat. Until you switch to f/t, please do not do that anymore. Feeder/pet rats are domesticated, not wild. They will die a horrible death out there. Wild rats will attack it for intruding into their territory, dogs will tear it apart, bird of prey will get to it, etc... And if it survives predators, it will die from starvation because they rely on people for shelter and food.

I'm trying to be as civil about this, especially when you make a comment about being an animal lover and you enjoyed giving a live rat to your snake so that you can watch nature takes its course. Feeding live because you have to vs feeding live for entertainment is very different, and to be frank, not much of an animal loving behavior on your part. If you want to see how it's done, go on YouTube and numerous nature channels available for your fun. I fed live, both mice and rats, to my ball python. He was also a picky eater. I also transitioned him to f/t. Not once did I enjoy hearing the scream of that mouse or seeing my snake coil around that rat did I find any pleasure in it. Nothing about the way we keep our snakes in captivity is similar to their native habitat because it's not, no matter how much fake plant and decorations are placed in there. So what you are seeing wouldn't happen in the wild, because in the wild, that rat would have been much smarter (Used to danger and predators), acutely aware of its surrounding, most likely to evade or know to avoid where potential predators are. In other words, an inexperienced captive snake going after a trapped, unexpected rat isn't really a fair fight, is it?

Like I said, I fed live before, so I'm not against it. If done right, the snake could quickly and tight, and the rat is immediately knocked out a dies in seconds. However, if your snake misses, the threat of that rat fighting back goes up, it will bite and scratch, and that rat will suffer slowly before it dies. If your snake is an adult in good health, and there is no urgency to feed her, then wait it out until she takes f/t. Offer every 2-3 weeks. Warm the rat up properly using the hair dryer method.

When you sign up to take in a ball python, it's assumed you had done your research knowing what you are getting into. That also means you are responsible for the rat if she doesn't eat it. Whether or not you see them as pets, or that they are for your entertainment value, treat it humanely. That's what loving animals is about. Be kind.

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Originally Posted by kalismami

yes I agree it’s looking like f/t will be easier. My snake is 2 years old and honestly I have no clue how much she weighs but I’m fairly sure she’s over 4 feet and is pretty thick, I have pictures of her in my gallery. She eats medium rats right now and is teetering on needing to move up to large ones, but I’ve noticed there’s a lot of discrepancies with the sizes depending on where I buy my rats from.

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She looks healthy to me - weight wise.

Medium rats are about 90-150G. I would not go any bigger than that unless she got unusually huge. I think 99% of owners never have to feed more than a medium rat, and that's generally for very large individuals. My female BP (Shayna) is 8 years old now and about 2KG and about 4 feet +. She eats small rats (60-90G) every 2 weeks in the spring, summer, and fall, and fasts most of the winter while barely losing any weight.

I used to offer her mediums, but she skipped a lot of meals. That might be part of your issue there. Smaller meals generally reduce meal skipping. It doesn't seem to change the snakes that want to fast in the winter, but it tends to make them eat better when they want to eat.

In fact, when Shayna started eating small rats regularly, versus mediums sporadically (1, 2, skip, skip, 1, skip, 1, 2, skip, etc) she will only skip in shed, and went from averaging about 1.7kg to almost 2kg in 2 years. I started this technique thanks to a former moderator on here, who said to try smaller meals every two weeks instead of what I was feeding (medium rats) every 2-3 weeks. Has worked like a charm.

I would consider letting her not eat for a little bit - say another month - and then offering a F/T small rat.


This is my step by step list on defrosting F/T rodents.

Others may do it differently and that's fine. This how I do it and it works for me.


STEPS FOR DEFROSTING F/T RODENTS/PREY

1. Put prey item(s) into appropriate size plastic bag. I use Quart size ziplock bags up to a medium rat. NOTE: Bags are optional. Some people just throw the prey in the water. I like the bags, but you have to squeeze the air out of them.

2. Fill the container/storage box 3/4 of the way with room temp to slightly warm water. If you have a temp gun (which you should, so if you don't, get one), make sure the water is not hotter than 85-90F, or there about.

3. Put F/T prey item(s) in water. Cover (optional) and leave for an hour +/-.

4. After an hour, rotate/flip prey. If in plastic bags, they often will stay on whatever side you put them in on. So if mouse is on left side, turn to right side, etc.

5. Leave for another hour +/- for a TOTAL of about 2 hours (up to medium sized rat - longer if bigger prey).

6. Check that prey is defrosted totally through. Squeeze at different sections of the preys body. Should be cool/room temp to touch, but be soft with no cold spots. If hard (except for bone), in abdomen, for example, or cold, put back in water until room temp and soft.

7. Take prey out of the container/storage box and put aside. THEN FOLLOW STEPS 8-11 OR STEP 12

8. Fill container with hot water from tap. If using temp gun, water temp should be 110-130F, not more.

9. Drop prey item into water for 30 seconds +/-. If multiple prey items, do one at a time. You want each item hot when you offer.

10. Remove (if hot water, with tongs).

11. Dry as best as you can, and is quickly as you can, with paper towels. I dry with paper towels while I am walking from the bathroom where I defrost to the snake tanks. I kind of wrap the prey item up in them. It's ten feet, so by the time I get to the tanks, the prey is drier, but still warm.

12. If not using hot water, use a hairdryer to heat rat so it entices snake

13. Open tank and offer ASAP.

Offer on tongs - NOT WITH HAND!

Wiggle a little to make seem alive to not so much to scare her and do not get in her face with it. Can move around near her, but not on top of her, etc.

She should strike. If not, you can leave for a few hours in the tank and see if she shows interest. Otherwise, remove and try again in two weeks.

Also, offer prey at night with lights dim when BP's naturally hunt.

If you need to know where to get tongs, just let us know. Also, we can advise on a good source of F/T prey if you are interested.

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Originally Posted by Cheesenugget

I keep snakes and pet rats, including 1 that was a feeder rat that we ended up keeping as a pet. The sweetest of the bunch, though shy at first, he licks our hands and enjoys being scratched on the head. Feeder rats make good pets if time and patience to tame is given, they are prone to more health problems but not certainly guaranteed.

I know you feel bad after you released that rat. Until you switch to f/t, please do not do that anymore. Feeder/pet rats are domesticated, not wild. They will die a horrible death out there. Wild rats will attack it for intruding into their territory, dogs will tear it apart, bird of prey will get to it, etc... And if it survives predators, it will die from starvation because they rely on people for shelter and food.

I'm trying to be as civil about this, especially when you make a comment about being an animal lover and you enjoyed giving a live rat to your snake so that you can watch nature takes its course. Feeding live because you have to vs feeding live for entertainment is very different, and to be frank, not much of an animal loving behavior on your part. If you want to see how it's done, go on YouTube and numerous nature channels available for your fun. I fed live, both mice and rats, to my ball python. He was also a picky eater. I also transitioned him to f/t. Not once did I enjoy hearing the scream of that mouse or seeing my snake coil around that rat did I find any pleasure in it. Nothing about the way we keep our snakes in captivity is similar to their native habitat because it's not, no matter how much fake plant and decorations are placed in there. So what you are seeing wouldn't happen in the wild, because in the wild, that rat would have been much smarter (Used to danger and predators), acutely aware of its surrounding, most likely to evade or know to avoid where potential predators are. In other words, an inexperienced captive snake going after a trapped, unexpected rat isn't really a fair fight, is it?

Like I said, I fed live before, so I'm not against it. If done right, the snake could quickly and tight, and the rat is immediately knocked out a dies in seconds. However, if your snake misses, the threat of that rat fighting back goes up, it will bite and scratch, and that rat will suffer slowly before it dies. If your snake is an adult in good health, and there is no urgency to feed her, then wait it out until she takes f/t. Offer every 2-3 weeks. Warm the rat up properly using the hair dryer method.

When you sign up to take in a ball python, it's assumed you had done your research knowing what you are getting into. That also means you are responsible for the rat if she doesn't eat it. Whether or not you see them as pets, or that they are for your entertainment value, treat it humanely. That's what loving animals is about. Be kind.

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listen I don’t want anyone to get the idea that I feed live just for my own entertainment...I adopted my snake from someone else who had her eating live her whole life and I have never had a problem until now and I certainly do a lot of research on how to properly take care of my girl, and MOST of the rats she refused have been taken in as pets and are living a cushy life. I’m peeved that you would think I wouldn’t put my snakes needs first when I’ve been spending time talking to people about how I can best get her eating again and am willing to try different options. Feeding live has always worked for me, and getting to see her hunt was an extra bonus because that’s not something I would get to observe in nature. I don’t care to watch a YouTube video about it because I only care to watch MY snake hunt. Thanks for everyone’s help.

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Originally Posted by dakski

She looks healthy to me - weight wise.

Medium rats are about 90-150G. I would not go any bigger than that unless she got unusually huge. I think 99% of owners never have to feed more than a medium rat, and that's generally for very large individuals. My female BP (Shayna) is 8 years old now and about 2KG and about 4 feet +. She eats small rats (60-90G) every 2 weeks in the spring, summer, and fall, and fasts most of the winter while barely losing any weight.

I used to offer her mediums, but she skipped a lot of meals. That might be part of your issue there. Smaller meals generally reduce meal skipping. It doesn't seem to change the snakes that want to fast in the winter, but it tends to make them eat better when they want to eat.

In fact, when Shayna started eating small rats regularly, versus mediums sporadically (1, 2, skip, skip, 1, skip, 1, 2, skip, etc) she will only skip in shed, and went from averaging about 1.7kg to almost 2kg in 2 years. I started this technique thanks to a former moderator on here, who said to try smaller meals every two weeks instead of what I was feeding (medium rats) every 2-3 weeks. Has worked like a charm.

I would consider letting her not eat for a little bit - say another month - and then offering a F/T small rat.


This is my step by step list on defrosting F/T rodents.

Others may do it differently and that's fine. This how I do it and it works for me.


STEPS FOR DEFROSTING F/T RODENTS/PREY

1. Put prey item(s) into appropriate size plastic bag. I use Quart size ziplock bags up to a medium rat. NOTE: Bags are optional. Some people just throw the prey in the water. I like the bags, but you have to squeeze the air out of them.

2. Fill the container/storage box 3/4 of the way with room temp to slightly warm water. If you have a temp gun (which you should, so if you don't, get one), make sure the water is not hotter than 85-90F, or there about.

3. Put F/T prey item(s) in water. Cover (optional) and leave for an hour +/-.

4. After an hour, rotate/flip prey. If in plastic bags, they often will stay on whatever side you put them in on. So if mouse is on left side, turn to right side, etc.

5. Leave for another hour +/- for a TOTAL of about 2 hours (up to medium sized rat - longer if bigger prey).

6. Check that prey is defrosted totally through. Squeeze at different sections of the preys body. Should be cool/room temp to touch, but be soft with no cold spots. If hard (except for bone), in abdomen, for example, or cold, put back in water until room temp and soft.

7. Take prey out of the container/storage box and put aside. THEN FOLLOW STEPS 8-11 OR STEP 12

8. Fill container with hot water from tap. If using temp gun, water temp should be 110-130F, not more.

9. Drop prey item into water for 30 seconds +/-. If multiple prey items, do one at a time. You want each item hot when you offer.

10. Remove (if hot water, with tongs).

11. Dry as best as you can, and is quickly as you can, with paper towels. I dry with paper towels while I am walking from the bathroom where I defrost to the snake tanks. I kind of wrap the prey item up in them. It's ten feet, so by the time I get to the tanks, the prey is drier, but still warm.

12. If not using hot water, use a hairdryer to heat rat so it entices snake

13. Open tank and offer ASAP.

Offer on tongs - NOT WITH HAND!

Wiggle a little to make seem alive to not so much to scare her and do not get in her face with it. Can move around near her, but not on top of her, etc.

She should strike. If not, you can leave for a few hours in the tank and see if she shows interest. Otherwise, remove and try again in two weeks.

Also, offer prey at night with lights dim when BP's naturally hunt.

If you need to know where to get tongs, just let us know. Also, we can advise on a good source of F/T prey if you are interested.

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SO HELPFUL!! Thank you. I will try smaller rats. Her last meal, which was a couple months ago, was a GIANT rat because I was headed out of town and had to feed her before I left (she stayed w someone obvi) and it was all the pet store had...so maybe that is why she started this hunger strike. I feel like everyone on here is 1000x more helpful than the guys at the reptile store...

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Originally Posted by kalismami

listen I don’t want anyone to get the idea that I feed live just for my own entertainment...I adopted my snake from someone else who had her eating live her whole life and I have never had a problem until now and I certainly do a lot of research on how to properly take care of my girl, and MOST of the rats she refused have been taken in as pets and are living a cushy life. I’m peeved that you would think I wouldn’t put my snakes needs first when I’ve been spending time talking to people about how I can best get her eating again and am willing to try different options. Feeding live has always worked for me, and getting to see her hunt was an extra bonus because that’s not something I would get to observe in nature. I don’t care to watch a YouTube video about it because I only care to watch MY snake hunt. Thanks for everyone’s help.

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I don't think anyone thinks you're a bad person or anything for what you said, I'm sure it was just misunderstood. People on this forum have one big thing in common and that's our love of animals, so sometimes passions run a little high, and I hope you won't take anything anyone said as a shot against you. We're just trying to give you the best advice we can while also correcting issues that you had prior to joining us here. Sometimes we just don't do a good job communicating our advice as friendly as we should.

You've gotten a ton of fantastic advice here and now it's up to you to put it into practice and find what's best for your animal. Like I said before, I feed live, and I will continue to do so because that's what works best for my BP. Live feeding isn't for every owner/snake, for example my hognoses won't eat live and prefer F/T but live is what the BP prefers, so live is what he'll continue to get. This isn't to say that I won't make the switch eventually, because personally I enjoy nothing about the live feeding process other than the fact that my snake has eaten, but for now I have a good system in place, and have no reason to change anything.