Looking to start a small colony

Hey guys,

I'm looking to start a small rat colony to feed my collection of 5 snakes. Can anyone give me an idea of how their operations work? I was thinking 1 male to 2 females.. but does the male have to live solo or can he live with the ladies? I know they don't do well solo so I thought I'd check that point. Anything else I should know?

Thank you in advance

Buy one female from a pet store that houses the males an females together. Works 99% of the time. Build a rack system an you’ll be fine. When I get home I’ll post the links.

Are you ready to gas an freeze? Rats grow fast. If you live feed your gonna have a ton of rats. Unless you separate males an females. Every 21 days they can drop a new litter.

Good luck!

Thank you for the reply! I'm looking into building my own CO2 chamber to euthanize and then I'll be freezing. I'm not sure if there are any pet stores around here that keep them together.. I was going to go to my local feeder supplier and just grab a male and female (or two females) off of them to get started. Seems cheaper than paying a pet store price too

Do you keep your males in with the females constantly or just to breed and then they go back to their enclosure solo?

There are a lot of ways to do things, and scale makes a huge difference the best way. What and how many or what age are you trying to feed them to?

Give your general location an somebody will point you to rats. As for getting them from your breeder of feeders. I wouldn't get a full colony that way. Too much inbreeding.

Learn from my mistakes.
1) Don't leave the male in when it's pup time. It will start fights, cause stress on mom an you may loose all the pinkies.
2) Don't leave unbred females in with ones about to drop. Stress an baby stealing= lost babies.
3) If you can't give a female her own tub at litter time. Make sure it's no more then two an they are the same size.
4) Handle all rats. You don't need a demon that attacks you. Cull nasty rats.
5) Injured rats need to be removed at once. Or they will be killed an eaten.
6) You want the females to drop within a day of each another.
7) Have rat traps or glue traps in the rat room!!!!!
8)Pull mom out at 33 days (35 is weaned) or her sons will breed her!
9)Separate males an females at weaning. Unless your gassing at or before 55 days.

White rats while it's the norm for feeders adding color is good. If white rats aren't available some snake won't eat colored rats. I don't raise white rats. Colored rats bring more money if you sell a few pets.

Check face book for rodent breeders near you. Quality rats equals quality snake food.
I use Doggy Bag (dog food $14 for 44Lbs) from TSC for feed.
I put four females in with two males for 16 days. Then the girls go into their own tubs. Some tubs will have two females unless they show stress signs.
I give the girls one to two weeks off after I take the kids. Most big breeders don't, as rats only last 2-3 years. I cull females if litter size bottoms out or they're bad moms. My breeding female are 500g+ the males are 600g+.

I add "new" blood once a year so so. Trade males or buy a prago female an keep a few.

I also raise ASF (African Soft Furs). I like then better then Norway rats BUT they grow slowwwwwww.

I used this for racks with some mods.


Building a Rat Rack (arbreptiles.com)

Impotent rodent facts:

miscsigl.vp (afrma.org)


Good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 303_enfield

Give your general location an somebody will point you to rats. As for getting them from your breeder of feeders. I wouldn't get a full colony that way. Too much inbreeding.

Learn from my mistakes.
1) Don't leave the male in when it's pup time. It will start fights, cause stress on mom an you may loose all the pinkies.
2) Don't leave unbred females in with ones about to drop. Stress an baby stealing= lost babies.
3) If you can't give a female her own tub at litter time. Make sure it's no more then two an they are the same size.
4) Handle all rats. You don't need a demon that attacks you. Cull nasty rats.
5) Injured rats need to be removed at once. Or they will be killed an eaten.
6) You want the females to drop within a day of each another.
7) Have rat traps or glue traps in the rat room!!!!!
8)Pull mom out at 33 days (35 is weaned) or her sons will breed her!
9)Separate males an females at weaning. Unless your gassing at or before 55 days.

White rats while it's the norm for feeders adding color is good. If white rats aren't available some snake won't eat colored rats. I don't raise white rats. Colored rats bring more money if you sell a few pets.

Check face book for rodent breeders near you. Quality rats equals quality snake food.
I use Doggy Bag (dog food $14 for 44Lbs) from TSC for feed.
I put four females in with two males for 16 days. Then the girls go into their own tubs. Some tubs will have two females unless they show stress signs.
I give the girls one to two weeks off after I take the kids. Most big breeders don't, as rats only last 2-3 years. I cull females if litter size bottoms out or they're bad moms. My breeding female are 500g+ the males are 600g+.

I add "new" blood once a year so so. Trade males or buy a prago female an keep a few.

I also raise ASF (African Soft Furs). I like then better then Norway rats BUT they grow slowwwwwww.

I used this for racks with some mods.


Building a Rat Rack (arbreptiles.com)

Impotent rodent facts:

miscsigl.vp (afrma.org)


Good luck!

---

I agree with pretty much all of this. I would spend the extra couple bucks to get quality rodent food from the feed store vs dog food personally because you will get better, healthier feeders, but it's not a must. I would give the females a bit more of a break, like 4-6 weeks after weaning babies. You should get bigger litters, bigger babies, and have the females last a bit longer before they start to throw small litters. But that won't make or break things either, and if your scale is small you might be better off with a different interval so that you have a steady supply of live at whatever size you need. I'm assuming you need at least some live on hand to want to go through with the trouble of breeding because the money savings over rodent pro alone isn't enough to justify the amount of work (to me) after you pay for the co2, unless you are breeding on a pretty crazy big scale to get big quantity discounts on everything.

That rack looks almost identical to mine. I would caution you, if you go with 1/2" hardware cloth, DO NOT put the water valves like they have them there. You will end up with a flooded mess because they will pull it down into the tub and chew the water line. Also make sure your tubs slide in there pretty snug or they will get their teeth between the tub and the hardware cloth and chew holes into the tub and escape.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 303_enfield

Give your general location an somebody will point you to rats. As for getting them from your breeder of feeders. I wouldn't get a full colony that way. Too much inbreeding.

Learn from my mistakes.
1) Don't leave the male in when it's pup time. It will start fights, cause stress on mom an you may loose all the pinkies.
2) Don't leave unbred females in with ones about to drop. Stress an baby stealing= lost babies.
3) If you can't give a female her own tub at litter time. Make sure it's no more then two an they are the same size.
4) Handle all rats. You don't need a demon that attacks you. Cull nasty rats.
5) Injured rats need to be removed at once. Or they will be killed an eaten.
6) You want the females to drop within a day of each another.
7) Have rat traps or glue traps in the rat room!!!!!
8)Pull mom out at 33 days (35 is weaned) or her sons will breed her!
9)Separate males an females at weaning. Unless your gassing at or before 55 days.

White rats while it's the norm for feeders adding color is good. If white rats aren't available some snake won't eat colored rats. I don't raise white rats. Colored rats bring more money if you sell a few pets.

Check face book for rodent breeders near you. Quality rats equals quality snake food.
I use Doggy Bag (dog food $14 for 44Lbs) from TSC for feed.
I put four females in with two males for 16 days. Then the girls go into their own tubs. Some tubs will have two females unless they show stress signs.
I give the girls one to two weeks off after I take the kids. Most big breeders don't, as rats only last 2-3 years. I cull females if litter size bottoms out or they're bad moms. My breeding female are 500g+ the males are 600g+.

I add "new" blood once a year so so. Trade males or buy a prago female an keep a few.

I also raise ASF (African Soft Furs). I like then better then Norway rats BUT they grow slowwwwwww.

I used this for racks with some mods.


Building a Rat Rack (arbreptiles.com)

Impotent rodent facts:

miscsigl.vp (afrma.org)


Good luck!

---

Wow, thank you for such a detailed reply. Just a few questions about what you've said..

You said that leaving a male in with the female will cause fights, do you mean fights between the male and the mom? I've heard of some people that leave the male in with the females full time? My hope is to breed both females at the same time, so that they drop within a day or two of each other.

Do you find that you sell many for pets too? I worried if I got into coloured rats then I would want to keep too many, so I figured I'd go with white.. but I didn't think about selling to pet homes

In terms of what I'm looking to feed, I have two adult ball pythons (male and female), a Kenyan sand boa and 2 adult russian ratsnakes.. so the sizes I'll need will vary. I'm planning on pairing the ratsnakes and the ball pythons so having a steady supply of live and frozen food will definitely save me some money.

Thank you again for the advice everyone, I really appreciate it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mrr

Wow, thank you for such a detailed reply. Just a few questions about what you've said..

You said that leaving a male in with the female will cause fights, do you mean fights between the male and the mom? I've heard of some people that leave the male in with the females full time? My hope is to breed both females at the same time, so that they drop within a day or two of each other.

In terms of what I'm looking to feed, I have two adult ball pythons (male and female), a Kenyan sand boa and 2 adult russian ratsnakes.

---

The females can get aggressive toward the male, the male can get aggressive to the babies. Some people leave the male and it works just fine. I've done it both ways, but have had a lot better results pulling the male before babies are born. He can impregnate her again right after delivering, and you are going to get a serious decline in litter size doing that. Sometimes they won't fight, but I would say at least 20% of the time leaving males in with females babies get cannibalized.

With that amount of snakes you are probably fine only giving the females 2 weeks off and just replacing females at a faster rate. 2.4 should more than cover you I would think.

For me an every breeder rodent breeder I deal with. Leaving a male Norway Rat in all the time causes problems. He just wants to breed. Mom wants to take care of the babies. Stress her an she first will try to move the babies. Then she will eat them. Now, I've been raising Norways since the 70's. In the old days it was 10 an 20 gallon long tanks. I had more then one male torn up by a female. Mice(for the most part) an ASF can stay in. To add "new" blood for the ASF it's add pinks or just start new, for me.

As selling pets. I have a surplus so it's sell frozen, live pups to some Ball breeders. An the $20 blue rats an $10 fancy rats as pets.

As for others saying use rodent feed. The dye free dog food ($14 for 44lbs) has a better conversion rate then Mazuri (25lb at $26).

Litter size. Well, I keep females that drop 12+. One Blue is three, weighs 610g an still drops 12+. Will she make it to four? Don't know but unless she slows down I'll keep breeding her. Large females drop large pinkies compared to young 300g females. The "new' blood I just bought are blues. Booth females (220g+/-) dropped 16 pinks an they are as small as ASF pinks. I had them in the same tub an didn't know they where that prago.

Giving females a month off. Are your freezers full? That's a waste of feed, litter an time. One to two weeks puts weight back on (two weeks is long).

I run 1/4" hardware wire on my racks. Nobody gets out unless I don't close a cage or the kids playing with some drop one. If using the mixing tubs with the nail hole, cover it with wire or flashing.

For litter I use TSC pine (yes pine it's been kiln dried) flakes. Four sheets of free newspaper on the bottom an 1-2" of flakes. I have used horse bedding pellets (I have horses) under the flakes for odor. With ASF it works, with rats it was a waste. Rats will turn the flakes over daily an shred the paper. ASF don't turn the flakes over daily or shred the paper. Paper makes changing litter easy.

If I was you an only wanted to raise just rats. I'd get one male an four females to start. That way I could have two in with the male for 14/15 days then throw them in birthing tubs an the other two in with the male. If you raise fancy live extras pay for feed, litter an time faster then frozen prey.


For "free" rats check your local animal shelters. You'd be shocked at the amount of rats, rabbits, ducks, snakes.... turned in. Craigs list will have them also. Find a non franchise type pet shop that sells rodents. Most have males an females together.

More rat stuff:

Fancy Rat Varieties: Fur Color, Eye Color, Coat Type, and Markings - PetHelpful - By fellow animal lovers and experts

Good luck!

Just a note - if you use an automatic drip waterer in a rack, make ABSOLUTELY SURE that the rats can't somehow get to the tubes and perhaps pull off a valve. My daughter's rat supplier lost his entire stock when one of his top-tier rats did exactly that and flooded all the tubs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spicey

Just a note - if you use an automatic drip waterer in a rack, make ABSOLUTELY SURE that the rats can't somehow get to the tubes and perhaps pull off a valve. My daughter's rat supplier lost his entire stock when one of his top-tier rats did exactly that and flooded all the tubs.

---

Flooded tubs can happen. Some of the high dollar systems have drains in them. First tub rack I made used metal mixing tubs. I drilled weep holes 4" up. An the little buggers pulled the valve. I lost some pinks (30 ish) but that was it. I use more water bottles then water systems. The grow out racks use the water systems. They have 40 or so in each tub. Breeding tubs don't need a five gallon bucket. Worried about flooding a tub? Drill some holes an cover then with cheap metal flashing (step is thick an cheap). Water will go around an out the holes. An the rats can't/wont eat the metal. You could use 1/4" wire also.

Was at a pet shop in DE yesterday. They had five 3'x5' tanks with feeders. The breeder tubs where Sterilite boot boxes on shelving. You can start small on the cheap or go BIG.


ARS Caging, Professional Caging for Professional Breeders. Reptile Breeding Systems and Rodent Breeding Systems: ARS Caging

Check face book an the like for snake or rodent groups near you. Snake groups will have a few backyard prey breeders. Rodent groups raise pets. Don't type about feeding them to your other pet:snake::O


Good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mrr

...
In terms of what I'm looking to feed, I have two adult ball pythons (male and female), a Kenyan sand boa and 2 adult russian ratsnakes.. so the sizes I'll need will vary. I'm planning on pairing the ratsnakes and the ball pythons so having a steady supply of live and frozen food will definitely save me some money...

---

Raising rats to feed just 5 snakes is an awful lot of work- you'll end up with too many rats the wrong size, or the right size at the wrong time. Expense-wise, you'll probably break even. I used to raise rats (& sold surplus rats, mice & hamsters, actually) & I only use quality name brand rodent chow too, btw. And about white rats versus "hooded"- yes, hooded rats are cuter, so you can sell surplus as pets, and also, you can tell them apart- helps to avoid inbreeding too. I only raise mice now- as I'm "only" feeding 19 snakes, none of which need rats.

I never used Mazuri, though I know a lot of breeders that do for some reason. I think Envigo (formerly Harlan) is better quality for far cheaper. Comes in 44lb bags for less than Mazuri 25lb bags, probably still more than the dog food but not by much. We don't have that particular dog food brand at our TSC so I couldn't really give an exact comparison. Everything but alcohol is so much more expensive here than most places in the country, so me paying $23 for Envigo is probably not going to match whatever it is there. I paid $16 for it in CO when I lived there 7 years ago, probably a little more now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nikkubus

I never used Mazuri, though I know a lot of breeders that do for some reason. I think Envigo (formerly Harlan) is better quality for far cheaper. Comes in 44lb bags for less than Mazuri 25lb bags, probably still more than the dog food but not by much. We don't have that particular dog food brand at our TSC so I couldn't really give an exact comparison. Everything but alcohol is so much more expensive here than most places in the country, so me paying $23 for Envigo is probably not going to match whatever it is there. I paid $16 for it in CO when I lived there 7 years ago, probably a little more now.

---

I'm currently using Mazuri, & it's actually cheaper than the Purina-brand specialty rodent breeder lab blocks I had been buying. I'm not in a big city area, so I have to use what my feed store can get in unless I want to spend a small fortune for private shipping, & their supplier changed. I'm actually very happy with Mazuri, ditto for the Purina; I've never fed any dog chow & never would, even though some do & swear it's okay, I'll pass. I support science in general & prefer to use food that's nutritionally balanced for rodents. My mice don't care either, between Purina rodent chow & the Mazuri, in case you wondering, & they appear much the same. FYI- I pay $28+ for a 50 lb. bag of Mazuri, & the Purina lab blocks were $33 (+change) per 50 lb. bag. Smaller bags always cost more per pound.

I also supplement what my mice are eating with bits of fresh kale, safflower & sunflower seeds. Adding such extras is even better for rats, they like almost anything too, but don't feed "junk food". By all means, let them lick clean your "empty" peanut butter jars, lol- they do a great job & it enriches their cage-existence. Giving treats to rats really helps keep them social with you & far less likely to bite. (this is for the OP, I'm sure you-nikkubus- know this) ;) Also, rats love variety & need roughly the same balance in their diet as humans- the extra vitamins in veggies & the extra protein & fats in seeds & nuts helps their reproduction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Raising rats to feed just 5 snakes is an awful lot of work- you'll end up with too many rats the wrong size, or the right size at the wrong time. Expense-wise, you'll probably break even. I used to raise rats (& sold surplus rats, mice & hamsters, actually) & I only use quality name brand rodent chow too, btw. And about white rats versus "hooded"- yes, hooded rats are cuter, so you can sell surplus as pets, and also, you can tell them apart- helps to avoid inbreeding too. I only raise mice now- as I'm "only" feeding 19 snakes, none of which need rats.

---

I know that I don't have the biggest collection at the moment, but I'm currently paying $7-11/rat every week - per snake.. even one litter could provide me with quite a bit of food. I think with a lot of these tips here, I could find a more cost effective way to do it. That being said, I don't want to seem overly naive here.. I'm aware that there are still expenses involved. I just feel like it'll save my overall food costs - especially when I begin to breed :)

Another question for everyone.. One feed supplier here suggested that when I separate the boys/girls at 5 weeks, that I put the boys in with the dad and leave the girls with mom. Will the older male rat hurt the little ones though? That's my only concern there, I'm not sure if he'll attack them or not.

On a related note (I can't remember if I've asked this), but can the breeder males be housed together when they're not being used for breeding, or will they kill each other? I know that male rats can live in groups (I own 4 currently), but I wasn't sure if that would change when a female was involved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mrr

I know that I don't have the biggest collection at the moment, but I'm currently paying $7-11/rat every week - per snake..

---

That is absolute robbery. You could get that down to 1/3 the price at least by ordering frozen rodents from an online supplier. My top three are listed below. ~$30 shipping per box and depending on what sizes your animals are eating you could probably stock up for several months or more with one full box.

Cold Blooded Cafe
Big Cheese Rodents
Perfect Prey

I know that cold blooded cafe even shows the % of space left to fill in a single box as you fill your cart on their website.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can get them cheaper if I'm willing to travel about an hour's drive away - there's a feed supplier who sells for under $5/medium rat. The problem is I can't always get out there. There's also a place that delivers, I just need to sort out the storage space situation at my place. I'm looking into getting a chest freezer to keep my feeders in.

I figure if I breed my own though, I'll always have food on hand, and I can always sell any overflow to people locally too. Most reptile owners in my town pay the $7-11/rat price from the local pet store, so I can provide a cheaper option at least.

"Another question for everyone.. One feed supplier here suggested that when I separate the boys/girls at 5 weeks, that I put the boys in with the dad and leave the girls with mom. Will the older male rat hurt the little ones though? That's my only concern there, I'm not sure if he'll attack them or not."

Short answer.
Don't do it!

Reasons:
Weaned rats will still nurse. So mom won't gain weight back as fast an she'll get ticked off sooner or latter. An then roll the kids.

Young males with dad. Dad will treat them like females. Fight to show dominance an on an on.

House rats about the same size. So they grow about the same rate.

Find a pregnant female to try your hand a raising some.

Good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mrr

I can get them cheaper if I'm willing to travel about an hour's drive away - there's a feed supplier who sells for under $5/medium rat. The problem is I can't always get out there. There's also a place that delivers, I just need to sort out the storage space situation at my place. I'm looking into getting a chest freezer to keep my feeders in.

I figure if I breed my own though, I'll always have food on hand, and I can always sell any overflow to people locally too. Most reptile owners in my town pay the $7-11/rat price from the local pet store, so I can provide a cheaper option at least.

---

Think about an upright freezer instead of a chest. They have the same foot print or smaller for an upright. With an upright you don't loose things. The bottom of a chest freezer can be scary. Also, don't buy a frost free model. It will cycle an thaw. So will the food in it. If you won't use it in five month get a vacuum sealer. That can make frozen food (rats) last years.

If your in the States others have already listed some suppliers that ship bulk. Get some friends together an split an order.

Now, one thing small hobby breeders forget. What happens to the rats if you go away for a week or two? If you don't have somebody to watch an check on them it's option two. Gas the colony an start over when you get back. Heck I know snake keepers that raise rats for six months. Gas them an restart after the summer. That fills their freezers.

Good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mrr

On a related note (I can't remember if I've asked this), but can the breeder males be housed together when they're not being used for breeding, or will they kill each other? I know that male rats can live in groups (I own 4 currently), but I wasn't sure if that would change when a female was involved.

---

Males can be hard to keep together once a female is in the equation but if you keep them consistently together it's fine. In 303's first post he says he keeps 2 males in a tub and doesn't move them, but instead puts females in to theirs. This is really the very best method, and ideally the two will be littermates or introduced to each other not long after weaning. Any tiny little thing you do different is likely to cause fighting. If you are going to instead separate a male from another to breed to a female, and then put him back with the other male, I would only put him with a female for a day or two, which means you have to pay enough attention to know she is in estrous. Another option is really only for pretty large scale, and that is to have enough females to rotate males through that they are always with a female and never with each other.

Freshly weaned boys CAN go with adult males, but there will be fighting to establish dominance, and sometimes that can end badly. It's very much dependent on your line how aggressive they are to other rats. I just don't see any good reason to do that instead of have 2+ growout tubs though. It's just not worth the trouble and you really shouldn't have a ton of mature rats in one tub anyways. The more per tub, the more often you have to clean. Personally I'd prefer to only have to clean once a week.

Okay so, let me just see if I've got this straight.. in theory a male could be taken from a group of males that he's been bonded to, bred and then returned to that group of males? I ask because my boyfriend is now asking if it would be possible to use any of my 4 male pet rats to breed. They've grown up together and are all quite young still, but I'm worried that if we try to breed one he won't be able to return to his group. Any thoughts? I know you kind of covered that above but just wanting to be absolutely sure before I try anything

I've taken your guys' advice and lined up a pregnant female from a local pet store. I'm just getting my temporary setup together first and making sure that I have everything planned out. Is there anything else that I should know before taking her?

Yes, pet rats would be fine. You could put two males in with three or more females. No reason to buy males since you have some. Will the males redo the pecking order? Yep, happens all the time. I trade an borrow rats to refresh the blood line. I would clean the cage the day before I took one. The give treats when I put him back. Why? Because his smell will still be in the cage an treats take attention away from him coming back.

Or just pull one or two out an put them in the female cage for the day. Keep doing that for 16 days or so. The males coming in contact with the females will just have one thing on their mind. They will get the job done.


Good luck!

Perfect. You guys have been so much help.. Thank you 😁