The Mama's and the Papa's (Feeder mice; 640x480 pics)

I've got one male and two females in each of the two larger Sterilite drawers pictured. The other 3 Sterilite drawers are currently uninhabited, but will be used for offspring and mother/father seperations post-breeding.

The water bottles I bought, while the smallest I could find, were still too tall to be hung on the sides of the drawers like normal, so I had to put them in at about a 30-degree angle. The top of the bottle being suspended by the wire that came with it (though custom-bent and cut), and the bottom of the bottle being supported by a zip-tie. It's working well, and the mice don't seem to climb on them too much. The only downside to the way they're placed is that water isn't being dispensed even with water still inside, as the angle prevents all the water from reaching the float-valve. No biggie, really.

I've also used a soldering iron to poke a series of holes along the sides, the back, and down the front of the drawers (you can't see them in one photo, because I hadn't finished at that time). I'm going to step up to rats as soon as Mr. Bojangles is ready for them, and for those I'll get a 20-long glass aquarium, and these Sterilite drawers will be for breeder Leo's and hatchlings.

http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...e/mice-001.jpg
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...e/mice-002.jpg
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...e/mice-003.jpg
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...e/mice-004.jpg
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...e/mice-005.jpg
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...e/mice-006.jpg

Pretty mousies.

It's only a matter of time before they chew their way out of those drawers.. I've gone through several drawer systems.. and I drill little holes only along the top. Keep an eye on the drawers! I use lab style cages now.. no more escapees!

I highly recommend feeding dog food (nutro lite is good) with a cereal mix over the pet store bought mouse food. The stuff is no good and WAAY too expensive. If you can get harlan-teklad rat and mouse lab blocks.. even better.

I'm definitely going to look into getting some ingredients to mix my own food, and these "lab blocks" sound like a great deal, not to mention practical and healthy. I've been checking on them about once an hour throughout the day, and they really don't seem to be too interested in chewing the plastic, though this doesn't mean that they won't in the future! I'll try to keep toilet-paper rolls in there to keep their teeth occupied, but of course if they want out, they're going to try... The little brown girl with the white diamond-shaped "crown" is supposedly already pregnant, or so said the lady at the pet store. I hope she is... After a couple litters, I should be able to tell myself, but for now she just looks like a slightly-chubbier-than-normal little girl.

Before they have babies they look like they swallowed two ping-pong balls. If you can visibly see a lump or two babies will arrive within days.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Before they have babies they look like they swallowed two ping-pong balls. If you can visibly see a lump or two babies will arrive within days.

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At which time it's good to remove the males, correct?

Yes, female mice and rats will get overly protective around their young. Watch your fingers.

~Jim

I never remove the male.

I'm sorry, but like April said, those mice will not stay in those drawers. With the lack of ventilation, you are going to have to clean those tubs every 3 days. Mice urinate CONSTANTLY and their urine is very concentrated and ammonia filled.

Ever stick your head in a pine bedding-filled urine-caked enclosure with no ventilation before? You will never want to again if you do. It makes your eyes water, your nose burn and is just disgusting. It will damage the mices' lungs irreversibly and there go your breeders(and future litters). They don't breed well when stressed, and not being able to breathe properly stresses them out.

I recommend just getting normal plastic tubs that are wider and longer than they are tall, replacing the majority of the middle of the lid with wire mesh and using them that way. To help cut down on the urine smell, put a few drops of vanilla into their water bottles.

I hope this helps and I did not come off as rude. You want babies, and the way they are set up, you will be pulling your hair out as the constant changing of bedding and loose mice will drive you bonkers. Oh, and pine bedding should not be used in an enclosed space. The phenols are not good for their lungs or their skin, but what can ya do. You need alot of ventilation when using pine so as to not damage their lungs. The combined smell of the pine shavings and their pee is enough to gag a maggot. I use aspen, and even letting a 10 gallon tank with 3 mice in it(1 male) go for a week just about makes me gag. They STINK, so as much ventilation as you can provide, it will really help.

Becky is absolutely right.

I use pine, but my cages are all well ventilated so I haven't had any problems with it. I wouldn't even consider cedar though.

What do you think about the larger Kritter Keepers? I'll probably just pick up a 10- or 20-gallon aquarium for them, but would the Kritter Keepers be a waste of my time and money?

Waste.. too small and I imagine they'd hold the urine smell.

I don't like tanks because they are a pain in the butt to clean out since they're heavy and bulky.. I love my lab cages. The food and water hoppers are a real time saver! http://www.bigappleherp.com/bigapple...roducts/110100

-they have a sale going on now for free shipping on orders over $125.

Well, I didn't have the time to take pictures this morning before heading off to work (Yes, I had duty on Christmas day), but I woke up to 10 babies! I'm so proud of the little mama. She had gotten real plump one day, out of nowhere it seemed, and a little less than a week later she's a proud mommy of 10 pink stubbies :D

I'm a little concerned about canibalism, and was wondering how long after birth mice generally eat their young. Would she have eaten them already? When I pulled her drawer out this morning, she was nursing, so I'm hoping that this will be a successful litter. I'll post some pics tomorrow when I get home from work.

Oh, and if you're curious, the mother is the brown one with the white diamond on her head in the above photos. The father is pure black. There have been no issues with them chewing the plastic drawers or zip-ties that are holding the bottles, either. ;)

I HAVE a Q about those drawers I know it is off topic but can I use those drawers to put snake like a rack sistem?thx and God bless

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Originally Posted by basuca

I HAVE a Q about those drawers I know it is off topic but can I use those drawers to put snake like a rack sistem?thx and God bless

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I'm afraid not. These drawers (the ones I have are individual drawers stacked atop one another) have too much of a gap at the top, and would allow any creature that can reach a great chance of escape. If you're really interested in using a rack system, I highly advise that you find plans for one online and build your own. It takes alot more time, but it is worth every second.

You can find some nice rack instructions here. Good luck!

Nobody has any ideas or input to my canibalism worries? :( I'll try browsing Google...

Usually if the mother is nursing them, she won't eat them. Unless something happens to them of course.. if they die from another cause, she will eat them.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Usually if the mother is nursing them, she won't eat them. Unless something happens to them of course.. if they die from another cause, she will eat them.

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Phew! Thanks Shelby! I've got about 20+ pages worth of mice-breeding information to read while I lay down :) Time for some studying!

Well, I have good news! Not only are the 10 pups from Christmas morning doing well and nursing, but my other set of mice had babies while I was at work! I checked on both sets of mice, and I was surprised to see more babies! Pretty exciting, actually!

The newest babies (Born Dec 26, 2005):
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...y-mice-001.jpg
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...y-mice-002.jpg

The first litter of babies (Born Dec 25, 2005):
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...y-mice-003.jpg
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...y-mice-004.jpg

Looks like only 4 in the second litter, while the first litter had 10. The second mama never did look very plump anyway, so maybe I'll keep her off the breeding schedule... I'll be transferring the babies and mommies over to a large Kritter Keeper in a couple of days, and clean their birth cages up.

Newborn mice really do look like alien babies. Congrats!

My new batch of mice just popped their first set of babies. It's nice to see babies in the drawers!

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Originally Posted by Shelby

My new batch of mice just popped their first set of babies. It's nice to see babies in the drawers!

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Isn't it, though? It's almost a sense of accomplishment for yourself, and the poor mama mouse is the one that did all the work! LOL I'm just glad that I've provided an environment suitable enough for them to have babies, let alone not turn around and eat them the next day.

Well, only 9-days since the first (9 pups) litter was born. Here are some updated pics:

The litter of 4 (8-days old):
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...-1.5wks-01.jpg

The litter of 9 (9-days old):
http://www.subliminallusion.com/imag...-1.5wks-02.jpg

On the litter of 9, I'm proud to point out the cute widdle white diamonds on some of their heads - just like their mommy. *sniffles*

The dads will be removed in a couple of weeks, and the male and female babies will be isolated after they're weened (another 2 - 3 weeks or so). The parents are eating rodent mix, lab blocks and puppy kibble.

They're very cute.

I probably wouldn't use puppy food because it's usually very high in protien which can be harmful to rodents.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

They're very cute.

I probably wouldn't use puppy food because it's usually very high in protien which can be harmful to rodents.

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ACK! Yet another hotly-debated (or so I remember) aspect of feeding mice. Noted, and applied. No more puppy kibble :)

I noticed the rats getting scabby when I used higher protien dog food.. with the switch, it went away.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

I noticed the rats getting scabby when I used higher protien dog food.. with the switch, it went away.

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By "switch," do you mean a switch to dog food with lower protien? If so, which dog food do you feed your mice?

If you can stay under 20% protein for mice and under 18% protein for rats, you will do fine. I bought a bag of Wellness Senior for my rats today and it is 18%(they didn't tell me it was so darned expensive!! *sigh*). The last bag I bought was Iams Weight Control and it was 19% and it didn't cause any breakouts. Iams, Eukanuba, Dog Chow Senior, really any of the seniors(NO OL'ROY or Kibbles N Bits mess)


IAmKaervek, why are you removing the males? The momma mouse is already pregnant from him being left in there after she had the babies. They have a heat cycle right after the babies are born. If you put the male back in with a group of females, they will more than likely kill him.

If you have two extra tubs, put the weaned females in one and the males in the other. Don't worry about separating the moms and dads. The babies can be separated at about 4-5 weeks old and placed in different tubs.

If you can, stay away from that mouse mix junk. The alfalfa in it is being wasted, and nothing in it is very healthy for them to eat. Stick with the dog food and lab blocks and you won't have as much waste.

Yes, the switch to lower protien. I use Nutro brand Lite variety, and Authority adult lite variety. Mix 50/50

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

IAmKaervek, why are you removing the males? The momma mouse is already pregnant from him being left in there after she had the babies. They have a heat cycle right after the babies are born. If you put the male back in with a group of females, they will more than likely kill him.

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The reason I planned on removing him is so that he's not present when the new litter is born, which should be in about a month or less. Not to mention the information I got here:

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If you do decide to leave the father with his family, I would recommend doing so for only one litter - which means that you will probably get two litters of mice in a row, as the mother will conceive again after the first litter is born. This can work very well - the father generally spends much time looking after the babies, reducing the load on the mother. When the babies are 4 weeks old, you can separate the sexes, leaving male babies with their father, and females with their mother. I have done this on several occasions, and in each case the family of father mouse and two or three sons lived together very happily. The sons rarely fought amongst themselves, and they never challenged the father, even when he became elderly and weak. It seemed that living in this more natural social structure was a good influence on the behaviour of adolescent male mice.

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I can then reintroduce the male to the female after her 2nd litter is around 4weeks old when the pups will be split up. Does this sound OK?

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

If you have two extra tubs, put the weaned females in one and the males in the other. Don't worry about separating the moms and dads. The babies can be separated at about 4-5 weeks old and placed in different tubs.

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But shouldn't the female be given some "time off" after giving birth to a litter, like mentioned above? Removing the father for a month (1 week prior to birth and for 3 weeks after)?

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

If you can, stay away from that mouse mix junk. The alfalfa in it is being wasted, and nothing in it is very healthy for them to eat. Stick with the dog food and lab blocks and you won't have as much waste.

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Yeah, the rodent mix I have is what I purchased when I first got the mice and didn't research what exactly to feed them. Now I'm just trying to get rid of it - they can waste all the alfalfa they want. The bulk of it gets tossed out with the substrate weekly anyhow :)

I never remove the male.. and certainly would not recommend it. Sooner or later, the ladies will murder him! Picking out lumps of mouse flesh with picked clean bones and tail sticking out is not fun. :bleh:

OK then, lol. I suppose he stays. He's a great Mr. Mom, anyway! Amazing how helpful he really is.

I was cleaning the mice enclosures yesterday night, and noticed that one of my babies actually had no tail. At best, it looks like a bob-tail, and nothing more. Has anybody ever had a mouse with such an abnormality, and is it fairly common? I'm not sure if it's this way due to damage from other mice, or if it was born this way - the end of it doesn't look as though it's missing anything, which leads me to believe that it was in fact born like this.

I'll try to snap a photo later, but they're in the flea stage right now, and getting them in my hand, let alone still enough for a photo, is a tad tricky...

Never heard of a manx mouse.. however, almost every last hopper I have growing in my mouse bin now has a nipped tail. I don't know who did it - or why the tails are being bitten, but you can see that they are bitten off, not born that way. Who knows.

It probably got cleaned by an overly stressed momma mouse and in the process got its tail bitten off. If it was the mouse's first litter, I wouldn't worry about it, but if it keeps occurring, then you may want to remove her from breeding. She could get even more stressed out and actually start eating babies. Ick..

Congrats on the baby mice (AKA, free snake food ) :)
I keep my rats in 20g tanks. When cleaning time comes along, I just remove the occupants, and scoop the shavings out with a dustpan.
I use pine bedding too; the expensive, dry stuff. I tried using the cheaper stuff but it was moist before I even opened the bag, and the good stuff lasts twice as long. I feed SunSeed lab blocks, which are better than seeds because there are no wasted shells and hulls, just edible food, and yer not paying extra $$ for said shells :) I supplement with cheerios too, when a mama has babies who are just getting weaned; each baby can grab a cheerio, and they don't fight as much over food.