Snake is attempting suicide

Weird title, weird problem. I haven't heard of something like this happening before, so would appreciate some thoughts. Also, if anything looks off with husbandry let me know.
Basic info: year old 3 foot ball python, fed F/T rats (the store I get them from is terrible at rat labeling but they're between 10-15% of her body weight) once every other week. Lives in an Animal Plastics T8 with 2 hides one for hot one for cool, big water dish, and a bunch of branches and fake foliage. Hot spot 90, cool spot 80, heated by vivarium electronics 80 watt RHP, hooked on ve-200 thermostat. I try to keep humidity around 50-60, and ambient air temps around 75-80. She acts normal, looks normal and eats like a champ.

The problem: for about two months, I've been occasionally finding her cold in her tank. At some point during the night, she tries to climb on the cord of her RHP panel, she pulls out the plug on her RHP with her big body, and the temp drops. Ambient temp in my room, where her tank is, is around 60 on semi-cold days and will likely dip to 40 on cold winter days (gets lower during the night) and I'm really worried that she's going to get an RI or flat out die one of these times. The solutions I've tried:
Put in a ton more climbing branches, because she thinks she's a tree python. This fixed the problem for a week, then the branches got boring. She does still like/climb around on them (does it pretty much every night) but she still climbs on the cord and yanks it out.
Hot glued the plug in place. This was my nuclear fix. It worked for a month (and I'd still catch her climbing on the cord loop sometimes) but she pulled it out, glue and all, sometime last night. Poor snake had been at 55 degrees for who knows how long when I woke up. I never want this to happen again, but she keeps finding ways to pull it out! I reglued it and glued the cord as close to the sides of the tank as I could to make it less appealing, but I'm still worried. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated-I'm worried I'm doing something wrong with husbandry.... Though maybe I just have a unique trouble snake. :rolleyes:
She's great and I love her, but I need this to stop.

Snakes do not commit suicide. But snake owners who don't set up enclosures correctly so that snakes cannot contact cords or any other dangers (such as hot lights) are guilty of negligent snake-icide, ok?

Snakes did not evolve living in cages: they want & need to move around, & when they do, it's your job to see they cannot get hurt, either directly or indirectly. Perhaps others who use RHPs here will chime in with suggestions for fixing this- I don't use them. But expecting a captive snake to never climb on a cord is a "fool's errand", & yes, she will be harmed sooner or later, and it's your fault! She cannot fix this, YOU can- you're the one with the hands, remember? Snakes need to grab onto things for traction...they don't avoid cords somehow knowing what they're for. If you had no hands or feet, you'd do the same thing.

Not seeing your precise set-up, my only suggestion is to drill a hole near the RHP so the cord runs completely outside the enclosure, & therefore, out of her reach. Obviously you cannot leave a hole in the top either, so you'll have to fix that as well. I suspect that many buy their enclosures with the RHPs already installed- too late, but now you know why.

My diagnosis: snake, normal. owner, questionable ;)

Cable clamp screwed into the ceiling just behind where the plug goes into the panel. Problem solved. Worst design for a heat panel ever, I have one in half of my divided T8. Also find it hard to believe you are maintaining those enclosure temps in a room between 40-60° and yourself manage to live in a house kept at that temp...


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Diagnosis recieved and appreciated: snake, normal, owner, bit stupid. Fair! I will try out the clamps and if need be get some equipment to make a hole big enough for the cord. Appreciate the kick in the pants for sure-I can always trust the forums to know and spell out what's best for the snake.:D

As for the temps/house, it's just my room. It has no insulation whatsoever. The rest of the house is normally arohnd 70. I had a space heater to keep temps up for snake last winter, I should have busted it out two months ago. That T8 keeps in heat very well so I figured I didn't need it, but... stupid.

Glad you’re asking questions and taking the advice to heart and not personally!

Not sure if this helps, but here is a picture of my RHP set up. All cords run out the back and are inaccessible to my snake. The thermostat cord dangles mid-air under the RHP and is hot glued around the hole so it can’t slide out of position. And because it’s suspended, my guy can’t urinate on it or push it to a different spot in his tank, endangering the temp regulation.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...50f9765fcc.jpg

That's perfect, thanks for the visual! If you don't mind, what did you use to drill the hole through the back? Mine only has one at the top (which I've sealed apart from the cord space, as my snake can and will try to fit through it).

Looks like I'll be doing some weekend construction:)

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Originally Posted by ApepApocalypse

That's perfect, thanks for the visual! If you don't mind, what did you use to drill the hole through the back? Mine only has one at the top (which I've sealed apart from the cord space, as my snake can and will try to fit through it).

Looks like I'll be doing some weekend construction:)

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I know you weren't asking me, but when I had a couple HDPE-plastic Pro-lines, I had no trouble drilling thru them with my regular drill & bit. (I did that for extra ventilation, fyi.)

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Originally Posted by ApepApocalypse

That's perfect, thanks for the visual! If you don't mind, what did you use to drill the hole through the back? Mine only has one at the top (which I've sealed apart from the cord space, as my snake can and will try to fit through it).

Looks like I'll be doing some weekend construction:)

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The VE heat panel you’re using came with instructions in the box for drilling an entry/exit hole for the cord including size of drill bit, means of installation, etc...


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EDIT: I misunderstood the type of heat you have so disregard [emoji23]

I also have a t8 from Animal Plastics. At the risk of repeating info as I have not read the entire thread yet: Your heat panel is not intended to be in the enclosure. It's intended to be taped to the bottom underneath the enclosure. You will want the thermostat probe in the enclosure under the substrate to ensure the enclosure reaches the right temp. But this way your snake won't have access to the plug to unplug it.

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Originally Posted by MamaRhea

EDIT: I misunderstood the type of heat you have so disregard [emoji23]

Your heat “pad” is not intended to be in the enclosure. It's intended to be taped to the bottom underneath the enclosure. You will want the thermostat probe in the enclosure under the substrate to ensure the enclosure reaches the right temp.

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I realize you misunderstood the heating element being used but you should absolutely never have the thermostat probe for a UTH/Heat Pad/Heat Tape inside the enclosure. It can be dislodged, peed on, pooped on, water bowl spilled on it, etc leading to dangerous spikes in temp.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...85e0b4d29c.jpg


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

I realize you misunderstood the heating element being used but you should absolutely never have the thermostat probe for a UTH/Heat Pad/Heat Tape inside the enclosure. It can be dislodged, peed on, pooped on, water bowl spilled on it, etc leading to dangerous spikes in temp.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...85e0b4d29c.jpg


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Actually I initially had it outside the cage in the slot that's built in for the t8. The material used in animal plastics enclosures is so thick that controlling the temp inside the enclosure from outside the enclosure is not possible. I had to set the thermostat to like 120 just to get the temp inside the enclosure to the proper temp on the warm side, and THAT I felt was much more dangerous than having the probe inside with the thermostat set to the proper temperature. It's under the substrate right up against the enclosure bottom, up against the corner, and has decor on top of it. There's almost zero chance of it getting peed or pooped on and absolutely zero chance of being dislodged. The water bowl is on the other side as well so no chance of that either.

With glass enclosures and tubs I 100% agree that the thermostat probe should go under the enclosure between the heat element and the bottom. But it's not possible to control the temp in an animal plastics enclosure that way.

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The UTH is only meant to create a hot spot, not increase ambient temp of the air in the enclosure. I have a stack of T8's that run on heat tape and the probe is in the provided slot. If the ambient is too low then an RHP is needed.

If you can't find a clamp make one. Take a soda can an open it up. Cut a 1"x3-4" strip. Dull the edges an screw it over the cord. 1/4" or less screw will hold it an not penetrate the T8 top. Zip ties can be used also an a hot glue gun.

Good luck!

MamaRhea, sadly, is right. There's no real way to keep things heated in an AP enclosure without the probe inside the tank. I have mine suspended under the RHP, like hilabeans's setup. No way for snake to pull it severely out of place, very little way for poop/pee/water to get on it. It's not the best but is better than the alternative. I do need it for ambient, or else I'd stick with heat tape. Someday I hope to have a designated snake room with a set ambient temp and humidity so I don't need the RHP, but that's a fair ways off.

Soda can tip is much appreciated! Now I don't need to wait for clamp shipping. Going to fix things up ASAP, and now I know for any future AP purchases.

On another, smaller note: I greatly appreciate how much help I've been been given (and how patient everyone's been with my stupidity:P). Thanks, all! I'll get Tapatalk and post a pic once I'm done so I can make sure everything is as good as it can be for my snake.

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Originally Posted by MamaRhea

The material used in animal plastics enclosures is so thick that controlling the temp inside the enclosure from outside the enclosure is not possible. I had to set the thermostat to like 120 just to get the temp inside the enclosure to the proper temp on the warm side, and THAT I felt was much more dangerous than having the probe inside with the thermostat set to the proper temperature. It's under the substrate right up against the enclosure bottom, up against the corner, and has decor on top of it. There's almost zero chance of it getting peed or pooped on and absolutely zero chance of being dislodged. The water bowl is on the other side as well so no chance of that either.

With glass enclosures and tubs I 100% agree that the thermostat probe should go under the enclosure between the heat element and the bottom. But it's not possible to control the temp in an animal plastics enclosure that way.

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I’m gonna blow your mind real quick...

So sure, you’re having to set the thermostat to 120 to get a 90° hot spot when the probe is between the UTH and the bottom of the enclosure.

Guess what? When you have the probe inside the enclosure set to 90° can you make a guess as to how hot that heating element is getting? If you guessed 120° you’re correct.

Put the probe outside for belly heat. Period.


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Originally Posted by ApepApocalypse

Soda can tip is much appreciated! Now I don't need to wait for clamp shipping. Going to fix things up ASAP, and now I know for any future AP purchases.

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Just go to Lowe’s/Home Depot. Cable clamps cost like 80cents for a bag of them and are in the fasteners aisle. Made of nylon, cannot cut or hurt your animal, will not rust, require no modification, and are designed to be used for the task being discussed here...


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Originally Posted by ApepApocalypse

I have mine suspended under the RHP, like hilabeans's setup. No way for snake to pull it severely out of place, very little way for poop/pee/water to get on it. It's not the best but is better than the alternative.

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Probe placement for RHP is the exception to the outside the enclosure rule. It does still need to be firmly secured in such a way that it cannot be tampered with by the animal, peed on, etc though.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Snakes do not commit suicide. But snake owners who don't set up enclosures correctly so that snakes cannot contact cords or any other dangers (such as hot lights) are guilty of negligent snake-icide, ok?

Snakes did not evolve living in cages: they want & need to move around, & when they do, it's your job to see they cannot get hurt, either directly or indirectly. Perhaps others who use RHPs here will chime in with suggestions for fixing this- I don't use them. But expecting a captive snake to never climb on a cord is a "fool's errand", & yes, she will be harmed sooner or later, and it's your fault! She cannot fix this, YOU can- you're the one with the hands, remember? Snakes need to grab onto things for traction...they don't avoid cords somehow knowing what they're for. If you had no hands or feet, you'd do the same thing.

Not seeing your precise set-up, my only suggestion is to drill a hole near the RHP so the cord runs completely outside the enclosure, & therefore, out of her reach. Obviously you cannot leave a hole in the top either, so you'll have to fix that as well. I suspect that many buy their enclosures with the RHPs already installed- too late, but now you know why.

My diagnosis: snake, normal. owner, questionable ;)

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The majority of this comment was unnecessary and unhelpful.

OP knew there was a problem, hence why they're her asking for help. There was no need to beat them over the head calling them negligent and talking down to them like they were a child.

Be an adult, give them helpful advice in a constructive manner if you have it to give, and move on.

Being condescending never helps anyone and will likely make this person, and other people, less likely to reach out in the future.

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Originally Posted by Jakemh91

The majority of this comment was unnecessary and unhelpful.

OP knew there was a problem, hence why they're her asking for help. There was no need to beat them over the head calling them negligent and talking down to them like they were a child.

Be an adult, give them helpful advice in a constructive manner if you have it to give, and move on.

Being condescending never helps anyone and will likely make this person, and other people, less likely to reach out in the future.

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Which is obviously why 7 members thanked my post, and it was taken by the OP in the spirit it was intended.

See post #4, which I likewise thanked.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Which is obviously why 7 members thanked my post, and it was taken by the OP in the spirit it was intended.

See post #4, which I likewise thanked.

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I really don't care if other members thanked you or not, and good on OP for taking it in stride. But that still doesn't make it okay.

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If nobody slapped me over the head calling me negligent, which I very much was, I wouldn't have asked on this forum. I know the general vibe of the forums when it comes to questions. People don't sugarcoat things, because the top priority is the snake. I love that, because she's my top priority too. My title was poor and I don't blame her at all for behaving like a snake, but it doesn't come off that way and Bogertophis was right to call me out on that. Generally speaking, if Bogertophis, someone who's been around snakes longer than I've been alive, says I'm being negligent than I'm being negligent.
I want to,be the best snake owner I can be. Dancing around the issue to spare feelings doesn't help that.

As for the talking like a child.... I am a minor. It was appropriate. :P

ApeApocalypse:

FYI- I was delighted you reacted as you did- in the spirit my post was intended. You're gaining maturity. :gj:

The reason I answered the way I did was partly your tongue-in-cheek thread title. It's also the reason I use emojis like this > ;)

I've posted on forums for a long time, & had posts criticized for too much sugar-coating also...I can't please everybody, but I do try to help. :D
It would have been much easier just to say :fishslap: LOL

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Originally Posted by Jakemh91

I really don't care if other members thanked you or not, and good on OP for taking it in stride. But that still doesn't make it okay.

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if you are going to talk to people like that, then just know that she is right. just because the post wasn't helpful to YOU doesn't mean it will never be useful to anyone.

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Originally Posted by ApepApocalypse

That's perfect, thanks for the visual! If you don't mind, what did you use to drill the hole through the back? Mine only has one at the top (which I've sealed apart from the cord space, as my snake can and will try to fit through it).

Looks like I'll be doing some weekend constructionhttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...lies/happy.gif

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As mentioned, nothing fancy - just a standard drill bit. It was really easy.