Regurging baby kingsnake

Okay... this is getting urgent. Something is majorly wrong with my cali king. I'm not sure of age, but we got it back in December. He's always been a sassy little thing and a voracious eater.

Despite how much he eats, though, one thing puzzled me: he wasn't growing. Those first couple months he went from 15 grams to 20, and now he's just been holding steady at that weight and gaining nothing. He still ate every time though, so I just figured he was going his own pace and tried not to worry myself about it.

Until about a month ago. I ran out of pinks and grabbed a couple store ones (petsmart) until my order came. I guess the package this time just ran big this time or something, but I did notice these pinks were just a tad larger than what I previously fed. They def weren't fuzzies, just bigger. I personally didn't think these were too big, maybe 1.5x his body versus the old 1.25x, so I went along and fed it to him and one to my baby corn (who's fat and happy. I dont think it was a package gone bad). A day later I find it in the tank regurged. I realized my mistake then and left him alone for a week and fed him again when my smaller pinkies came in again.

That meal came and went just fine. My 3rd feeding, however, for some reason he turned back and regurged again on the smaller pink. I panicked and checked the enclosure, temps are okay (hot at 85f), I did a thorough clean. Week later and he did it a 4th time. I'm starting to panic here and this time I wait a little longer than a week, maybe a week and a half. I decide I should try to go even smaller so I did the only think I could think of and cut off a small section of mouse tail to eat. It's thinner than the pink, shorter than the pink, hardly a meal at all but I figured it was better than nothing at this moment. I just discovered that in his tank tonight :(

I want to call the reptile vet but I'm afraid they won't be able to do anything just because he's so small. Like, I don't even know how you'd dose medicine for something that is 20 grams. He's kept his appetite so far but I can tell he is slowing down. I just wanted to come here and make sure there's absolutely nothing else I should be doing for him.

20g, and he's coming up on a year old? That doesn't sound good. I would def see a vet. There are so many possibilities that I won't even speculate. See a VET!

You didn't say where you got him but I would suspect parasites. He needs a vet visit ASAP.

Also after the first regurge you should have waited at least two weeks and preferably three before feeding again.

Agreed, vet ASAP.

And agreed, at LEAST two weeks should go by between feedings after a regurge.

I wasn't around yesterday, or I'd have also said "VET, ASAP!" My first thought is parasites when you say he's hungry but not growing, & it's an EASY fix when correctly dosed, but when you wait too long, parasites that are stealing his nutrition & restricting his growth are eventually going to kill him...the longer you wait, the more damage they can do. There are other possibilities but please see your experienced-herp vet right away.

Vet's been called, got an appointment for Monday.

I need to use this forum more honestly, trust most of you so much more. I googled the feeding thing and many other sites said just a week was fine :( I feel like I've just hurt him. Hes a petsmart snake (I know, not my first choice. He belongs to my bf and im caring for him while by bf is stuck away because of covid.)

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

Vet's been called, got an appointment for Monday.

I need to use this forum more honestly, trust most of you so much more. I googled the feeding thing and many other sites said just a week was fine :( I feel like I've just hurt him. Hes a petsmart snake (I know, not my first choice. He belongs to my bf and im caring for him while by bf is stuck away because of covid.)

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Just be sure he stays hydrated. One way that regurgitation can actually kill* a snake is by dehydrating them. (*also choking) And as was already mentioned, you need to wait at least 2 weeks after it occurs before offering any food again, to give the snake time to replenish their digestive enzymes, otherwise it just keeps happening, & in a small snake, it may not take too many times to kill them. It's also best if the meals afterwards are on the small side for a while, just to make sure the snake digests easily & the regurgitation doesn't recur. It's like after you have the stomach flu, it's best not to rush out & eat huge burger & fries right off.

If regurgitation occurs despite having waited long enough, it can indicate other, more serious problems, as is already indicated by his slow growth. Parasites can also cause regurgitation. In fact, just thinking about having worms makes me want to...LOL.

So anyway, I hope things turn out well for this snake, & don't be a stranger around here, okay? Ask questions, we don't bite. :snake:

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

Vet's been called, got an appointment for Monday.

I need to use this forum more honestly, trust most of you so much more. I googled the feeding thing and many other sites said just a week was fine :( I feel like I've just hurt him. Hes a petsmart snake (I know, not my first choice. He belongs to my bf and im caring for him while by bf is stuck away because of covid.)

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In all honesty, this forum is as good a resource as any others I've found. We don't see people sharing false or dangerous advice often, and it's often corrected quickly when it does happen.

That being said, I always advise people to cross reference any information they receive before believing it to be true. After all Abraham Lincoln himself said you can't believe half of what you read on the internet ��

Unfortunately, it looks like another case of big box store animals requiring a vet. Ugggh, poor little snake. But it sounds like you already know for next time (nobody has just one snake ;))

Good luck with your little guy! Please keep us posted

Vet visit was today, seemed to go well enough i guess. Vet said there wasn't tons we could do considering how little he was, but he got a super diluted injection and the vet insisted we try tubing a small amount of liquid diet into him. Wasnt really into that idea... but vet knows best I guess. Just have to wait for him to poo now and collect a sample for them. Unfortunately, I would've brought one with us, but since he's been ill he hasn't really ate anything to poop.

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

Vet visit was today, seemed to go well enough i guess. Vet said there wasn't tons we could do considering how little he was, but he got a super diluted injection and the vet insisted we try tubing a small amount of liquid diet into him. Wasnt really into that idea... but vet knows best I guess. Just have to wait for him to poo now and collect a sample for them. Unfortunately, I would've brought one with us, but since he's been ill he hasn't really ate anything to poop.

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I can tell you that if he were my snake, I'd have tube-fed him a small amount too, to get a stool sample & also other indications, like whether or not he can keep this down. :gj:

Back to the part about him not gaining weight, keep in mind that it does take small colubrid snakes a long time to grow much in length & weight, because they can only swallow small prey, & pinkies don't provide much nutrition, as larger rodents do. So that part might even be normal, but not the regurgitation. That can indicate different things, some quite serious, so I'm crossing my fingers for your little snake-pal & for you, that it's something simple like internal parasites. Thanks for the update.

I knew this would happen... ugh. Vet did that tube feed for nothing. Little guy regurged that as well.

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

I knew this would happen... ugh. Vet did that tube feed for nothing. Little guy regurged that as well.

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It wasn't for nothing- it helps with diagnosis. Ideally snakes should only be tube-fed at home, since the stress of traveling & handling to & from vet can cause a regurgitation even if nothing else is wrong. (I've tube-fed snakes many times over the years- successfully...it's something I know a lot about.)

So sorry to hear this. How long did he keep it down? I mean, how long after he was settled back in his own home did he chuck it up?

Are you absolutely sure that his cage temps. are adequate, & that he has hides (at least one with warmth & one without) so he can digest in peace? And you weren't handling him after his meals?

Are you seeing any slight mid-body swelling? Does it still look like he might have eaten, even a small meal, & even after he has regurgitated?

This snake should be quarantined away from your other snakes. I HOPE you've never given any food that he first refused to any of your other snakes???
Even if you cannot or will not keep him in a separate room from your other snakes, you should touch him or his cage last, then completely shower & change clothes before handling or touching any of the other snakes you keep, to prevent sharing what might be ailing him with any & all of your other snakes. Got it?

Let the vet know & please do keep us informed. I have a hunch but I hope I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I have a hunch but I hope I'm wrong.

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I think we have the same hunch.

He doesn't reject meals, he still has an appetite. I'm not dumb enough to go and feed his food to someone else. Thats idiotic.

He's looking real thin to me i track weights and he's losing now, down to 16g from 20 (the vet is aware, says his body condition doesn't look awful yet). He kept the liquid diet in 24hrs at least- it wasn't there when I left for work this morning. I put him on paper towel so I could monitor this. I havent held him either, only very briefly when I transported him home from the vet. I'm not comfortable tubing a snake that small, even if I knew how to begin with. I've got a thermostat on his heat mat set to 86f, and I also checked with my temp gun and didn't get a different number. Unless 86 is too low or high, I think his enclosure should be fine. He's got 2 hides and and plants to hide himself in. He loves burrowing too though thats temporarily been taken away from him.

Unfortunately I can't move him from my room, my father doesn't like them, but I am thoroughly washing before I interact with anybody else. He's also on the complete opposite side of the room from my other snakes.

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

He doesn't reject meals, he still has an appetite. I'm not dumb enough to go and feed his food to someone else. Thats idiotic.

He's looking real thin to me i track weights and he's losing now, down to 16g from 20 (the vet is aware, says his body condition doesn't look awful yet). He kept the liquid diet in 24hrs at least- it wasn't there when I left for work this morning. I put him on paper towel so I could monitor this. I havent held him either, only very briefly when I transported him home from the vet. I'm not comfortable tubing a snake that small, even if I knew how to begin with. I've got a thermostat on his heat mat set to 86f, and I also checked with my temp gun and didn't get a different number. Unless 86 is too low or high, I think his enclosure should be fine. He's got 2 hides and and plants to hide himself in. He loves burrowing too though thats temporarily been taken away from him.

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While using paper towels, you can just crumple some paper towel to put inside his hide to make it cozier, so he feels more like he's burrowing.

You'd be surprised how many ppl do re-offer food items to their other snakes, so I just wanted to make sure. Others read this to learn also. ;)

I was reading "between the lines" & sorta figured he kept the liquid food down for a while. You'll be getting back with the vet, I assume. I hope the medication he was given works, time will tell.

So far as I can tell, it's nothing that you've done wrong or incorrectly.

Well... its been 2 weeks since the last feeding. Went with the vet's plan and fed him. And it's not good. I cut the head off a pinkie and fed that to him and it did not stay down. He's skin on bones now. Still keeping his appetite, but there's nothing I can do to help him keep the food down. Is there anything I can give him to get some kind of nutrition?

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

Well... its been 2 weeks since the last feeding. Went with the vet's plan and fed him. And it's not good. I cut the head off a pinkie and fed that to him and it did not stay down. He's skin on bones now. Still keeping his appetite, but there's nothing I can do to help him keep the food down. Is there anything I can give him to get some kind of nutrition?

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So very sorry- you need to talk with the vet at this point- any test results? Maybe he was tube-fed too much? but you're not up to doing that at home, right? That's the easiest for a snake to digest- and if that regurge had been related to the travel from the vet's office, it likely would have happened much sooner than it did. I'm sorry, but it's not looking good. You never answered me before, is there any slight mid-body bulge visible? (-like a small meal that never happened?) Not seeing the snake, it's not for me to guess. Call the vet back.

There's no bulge at all, he's slim all the way down. We didnt tube feed him this time, vet told me to cut the head off a pinkie and feed him at home. I have not handled him or interacted with his cage at all since the feeding.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...201_184023.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...201_184017.jpg

He's a pretty little thing, but it's so disappointing that he's not healthy & able to keep food down. Did you call your vet back?

I tried calling today, the vet wasn't in. He's got an appointment tomorrow with the vet though so we'll see what doc says.