Very feisty and very stubborn piebald.. advice??

Alright, getting a little fed up honestly. In April of this year I got my dream morph, the low white piebald BP.


Crud somehow I entered this before I was finished typing. I'm editing it now.

Alright, getting a little fed up honestly. In April of this year I got my dream morph, the low white piebald BP. Extremely beautiful female, she came to me around 170g and feeding live only. All my other snakes are eating frozen and I want her eating it as well.
My girl came to me very feisty, so I tried to handle her a couple days per week but I make sure she has *atleast* a 24hr break between. She has not calmed down at all over the months and I'm getting bitten all the time.
She's also refusing to do the switch to frozen. She is only 240g now because I was attempting to be very stubborn with her feeds. We saw a vet though who thinks shes slightly thin so I've let her have a few live meals. I believe her enclosure to be correct, warm side of 91 and cool side around 80ish, fluctuates a little now with the approaching cold weather. The humidity is harder but I try and get it around 60% for normal days and I spike up an extra 10% for sheds.

I personally don't believe it to be the enclosure because when I do allow the live meals she eats perfectly fine. I'd keep doing them but she got bit once and I really just don't want to keep doing it if it can be helped. Not to mention our only rat supplier just went out of business and I have yet to find a reliable private breeder.

I've tried basic forms of scenting like dirty bedding and rubbing frozen and live together. Im hesitant to try other forms like the ASF juice because i havent seen any reveiws of people actually using it. Does chicken broth/tuna/whatever work on bps?
I've tried putting her in a small critter keeper overnight with one, ive left one in her warm hide overnight, also tried feeding in a different bin just to try and start something but it never works. I was also curious if her defensive behavior had anything to do with it. Like should I be trying harder to tame her down first before I start thinking about frozen?

I know it's a bummer, but try not to handle for a bit. For now, handle for maintenance. Worry about making friends after she's solidly on f/t.

Try dialing down your warm side - it is too hot. I like 87-88 degrees for most of my animals. This is anecdotal, but for some reason, it seems like young females especially do better for me when cooler. High temperatures seem to make them jumpy and grumpier.

Next - I've missed how you're warming your f/t. If you're using water, put the rat in a ziplock to keep it dry. Dry food smells more rodenty, and some snakes dislike wet fur. The blow drier method works great, so will some time under an incandescent light bulb. Depending on the size of the rat, you're looking at somewhere between 5-10 minutes to warm it through under a light. Shoot for a temp between 100 and 110 degrees. Yes, that's toasty, but the temperature of the rat starts dropping as soon as you take away the heat source, especially if you're using a lamp or a drier. (And remember, rodents have about the same body temp as a human, and you want this lifelike.)

Warm hot side temps can also sabotage you when feeding f/t, as the rat quickly becomes colder than the snake's hotspot.

Feeding in a different bin generally will not help, and will only make an iffy feeder worse.
Also, how do you offer her rats normally? Zombie dance? Set it in and walk away? Something else?

That's what I can think of the top of my head. Hopefully, someone else will chime in with more, better suggestions :)

I’d recommend you giving the tried and trusted ‘hairdryer method’ for feeding frozen thawed ..

Incidentally what are you using to take the surface temps ( warm and cool spots ) ??


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Let her get hungry. Then let the frozen thaw where she can smell it. Heat it up an drop it on top of her hide. An leave her alone in the dark. Hunger will bring her around. Tough love an all that.

If your near OC MD I’ll give you some ASF to try. Stinky males work for some reason.

Good luck!

The first thing I'll def do is try turning down her thermostat. I only had it on the higher end because I'm afraid of the cold (parents don't like turning the heat on for as long as possible). I'll stop the handling for now as well.

Normally I heat my rodents in warm water, not hot, all my other balls don't care if they get wet but with her I've tried putting it in baggies and also allowed them to get wet. Also the hairdryer method is a godsend honestly I use it all the time for my slightly picky male and he eats almost every time now. For her she definitely starts coming out of her hide looking for it, although she rejects it and starts her defensive biting habit if I try for too long.

And no I don't do the zombie tail thing lmao. I grab it by the back of the nexck and twitch it on the ground of the enclosure.

Also just to mention it i use one of those temp gun things. I don't believe them to be entirely accurate but I trust it enough to give myself a general idea. I think my main thing is I hesitate to go over the 100 degree mark. I always hear how bad it is to cook the rat. This next time I'll try and get it much toastier!

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

. Also the hairdryer method is a godsend honestly I use it all the time for my slightly picky male and he eats almost every time now. For her she definitely starts coming out of her hide looking for it, although she rejects it and starts her defensive biting habit if I try for too long.

And no I don't do the zombie tail thing lmao. I grab it by the back of the nexck and twitch it on the ground of the enclosure.

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Good to hear about the success of the hairdryer method !!


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Welp, update on this thread. Her temp has been lowered for the paste week (88 like suggested) and I haven't handled her.

Tonight is feeding night. I thawed a rat in water and did my best to do it dry, then went in and blasted it with a hair dryer. She came put looking for the rat but as soon as it was ready to be presented to her, she defensively struck at it over and over with no coil :( i reheated it once more and when that didn't work ive brained it and plan to leave it with her overnight. Completely out of ideas :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

Welp, update on this thread. Her temp has been lowered for the paste week (88 like suggested) and I haven't handled her.

Tonight is feeding night. I thawed a rat in water and did my best to do it dry, then went in and blasted it with a hair dryer. She came put looking for the rat but as soon as it was ready to be presented to her, she defensively struck at it over and over with no coil :( i reheated it once more and when that didn't work ive brained it and plan to leave it with her overnight. Completely out of ideas :(

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Best to leave it a week now before trying again ... was is definitely WARM when it was offered ? They cool down so quickly ..

As I’ve said previously I have a few who will only strike in dim light , from under their hides . A warm mouse dangled over the hide entrance works nearly every time for mine .. sometimes it just needs reheating with the hairdryer a few times ..


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She is striking so your halfway there. I'd wait two weeks before trying again, hunger works wonders. Now, try smaller prey it might work.

Good luck!

Welp, braining didn't work for her either so I'm leaving her alone for another week. I do believe she's getting hungry, she's been out and about more than usual.

I did what was suggested and made sure that thing was HOT. I took it's temp and I believe it was 109 or something. No dice. Couldnt try the hide thing because she was out and about her enclosure. If she doesn't take next week I might try low sodium chicken broth just once.

Anyways, pic for you all of angy gorl sniffin for rats. I've been covering her tank as of late too because she gets so upset that she strikes at the glass if I walk by.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...921_234138.jpg

Cover the glass with paper for now. Wait two weeks before you try to feed again. Thaw the rat out in a sandwich bag. It won’t get as wet. An as I typed before try smaller prey.

Good luck!

I think we are getting close, this attempt was noticeably different from the last.

I heated the food in water, a rat fuzzy, in a plastic bag to keep it from getting wet.
After thawing I set it outside the enclosure for about 10 minutes just to let the scent get in the air. She didn't come out searching, however my boys with nearby enclosures came out looking.

After the 10 minutes passed I blasted the rat with a hair dryer. It was like 115f when I got ready to offer.
Usually, the feeding ends quickly because she immediatly starts defensive striking, not acknowledging its a rodent at all. This time, her tongue flicked with interest and she was tracking it with her head as i danced with it. She even gradually got close and took a sniff multiple times, however to my surprise she turned away and would act scared of it. Until I reheated it and then she would repeat sniffing it and then getting really close to it's face. We did this three times before I called enough is enough, took it out and closed up her cage. I think hunger is finally getting past her stubbornness.

I think next week I'm going to pick up a mouse and try that. Her last live meal was a mouse so maybe the frozen one would tempt her. She was never picky between rat and mice when they were live so hopefully if she's taking frozen mice it'll only take a couple feeds to get on frozen rats.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

I think we are getting close, this attempt was noticeably different from the last.

I heated the food in water, a rat fuzzy, in a plastic bag to keep it from getting wet.
After thawing I set it outside the enclosure for about 10 minutes just to let the scent get in the air. She didn't come out searching, however my boys with nearby enclosures came out looking.

After the 10 minutes passed I blasted the rat with a hair dryer. It was like 115f when I got ready to offer.
Usually, the feeding ends quickly because she immediatly starts defensive striking, not acknowledging its a rodent at all. This time, her tongue flicked with interest and she was tracking it with her head as i danced with it. She even gradually got close and took a sniff multiple times, however to my surprise she turned away and would act scared of it. Until I reheated it and then she would repeat sniffing it and then getting really close to it's face. We did this three times before I called enough is enough, took it out and closed up her cage. I think hunger is finally getting past her stubbornness.

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Was she UNDER a hide ??
Dim / lighting ?
Again mine will disappear as soon as the main lights are switched on ..


Most of mine will only strike from the security of a hide and drag it back under to eat ..
Sadly sometimes it will take 6 or 7 reheats with a hairdryer but they do get more and more interested each time ... just when you are at the point of giving up - try a couple more times ..


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I have won the battle! My girl took her first frozen meal.

Steps that I took to tempt her: I bought a live mouse to prepare myself for a prekilled feed. I unthawed a mouse (I did rats before when she was rejecting food) in warm water and placed the live one in the cage inside its cardboard box. I did this hoping she'd scent him and get hungry.

When the frozen was completely unthawed, I warmed it even further with my hair dryer. Then when it was present to her, she took it almost instantaneously. I covered her cage up quick with a towel and let her eat in peace. I'm so happy! This has been a battle I've been trying to fight since April!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

I have won the battle! My girl took her first frozen meal.

Steps that I took to tempt her: I bought a live mouse to prepare myself for a prekilled feed. I unthawed a mouse (I did rats before when she was rejecting food) in warm water and placed the live one in the cage inside its cardboard box. I did this hoping she'd scent him and get hungry.

When the frozen was completely unthawed, I warmed it even further with my hair dryer. Then when it was present to her, she took it almost instantaneously. I covered her cage up quick with a towel and let her eat in peace. I'm so happy! This has been a battle I've been trying to fight since April!

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Hurrah for her , for you and the hairdryer trick !!!

:)


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