Dumeril's baby won't eat

I finally found a source I trust and got my last 'gotta have it' snake: a Dumeril's Boa. He was born on August 8 and at the time I got him (Sept. 28) had been taking regular meals of F/T rat pinkies. He hasn't eaten since coming home with me. A friend of mine who breeds Carpet Pythons got a pair from the same litter and hasn't been able to get his to eat yet either; we've been commiserating and brainstorming.

I know that young Dumeril's are well-known for refusing to eat, but I wanted to check in here and see if there's anything else I could/should be doing.

I have offered F/T rat pinkies and mouse hoppers so far with no results.

Before coming to me, he had been kept in a rack system in one big tub with his six male siblings, on aspen substrate. All of the babies that are still living in the rack system are currently still eating F/T regularly.

He's in a 24" long 18" high 16" deep PVC enclosure with deep aspen substrate and a deep heat projector. The enclosure also has a Shadedweller UVB but I haven't been running it as I am worried the light would be additional stress at the moment. Warm spot is 86F, with temp gradient going down to 78-80F. Ambient room temp is 75-80F. My ambient humidity is low (40%) so I put a Tupperware container in his enclosure that's filled with damp sphagnum moss. He spends much of his time there but sometimes is under the aspen substrate with just his head poking out.

The room is quiet with low activity, and I am not handling him at all. He isn't losing weight.

I hate to stress him with a move to a different enclosure, but I am thinking I should maybe move him into a small tub with a UTH, keep providing deep substrate, continue offering the humidity box, up the overall humidity to 50%, and try offering a meal in a week. OR I could keep him where he is, up the overall humidity a bit, and just wait him out.

I'd really appreciate feedback from those of you who have worked with these guys before - I know there are a few of you out there, and I'm totally open to making whatever changes I may need.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...sept_thumb.jpg

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Originally Posted by Caitlin

I finally found a source I trust and got my last 'gotta have it' snake: a Dumeril's Boa. He was born on August 8 and at the time I got him (Sept. 28) had been taking regular meals of F/T rat pinkies. He hasn't eaten since coming home with me. A friend of mine who breeds Carpet Pythons got a pair from the same litter and hasn't been able to get his to eat yet either; we've been commiserating and brainstorming.

I know that young Dumeril's are well-known for refusing to eat, but I wanted to check in here and see if there's anything else I could/should be doing.

I have offered F/T rat pinkies and mouse hoppers so far with no results.

Before coming to me, he had been kept in a rack system in one big tub with his six male siblings, on aspen substrate. All of the babies that are still living in the rack system are currently still eating F/T regularly.

He's in a 24" long 18" high 16" deep PVC enclosure with deep aspen substrate and a deep heat projector. The enclosure also has a Shadedweller UVB but I haven't been running it as I am worried the light would be additional stress at the moment. Warm spot is 86F, with temp gradient going down to 78-80F. Ambient room temp is 75-80F. My ambient humidity is low (40%) so I put a Tupperware container in his enclosure that's filled with damp sphagnum moss. He spends much of his time there but sometimes is under the aspen substrate with just his head poking out.

The room is quiet with low activity, and I am not handling him at all. He isn't losing weight.

I hate to stress him with a move to a different enclosure, but I am thinking I should maybe move him into a small tub with a UTH, keep providing deep substrate, continue offering the humidity box, up the overall humidity to 50%, and try offering a meal in a week. OR I could keep him where he is, up the overall humidity a bit, and just wait him out.

I'd really appreciate feedback from those of you who have worked with these guys before - I know there are a few of you out there, and I'm totally open to making whatever changes I may need.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...sept_thumb.jpg

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Yeap, these little guys are shy eaters. I had the same problem too.

What worked for me may work for you. Downsize that enclosure to a 6 qt or 12-16 qt tub. Humidity of around 50-60% is fine. Lots of aspen (2 inches minimum) for burrowing. Other substrate can be used as long as it allows burrowing and hiding. Small hides can be provided but they are not known for using them.

Your hot temp is fine, try not to higher than 85F. 80-85F is preferred. They look cooler temps. Cool end should be about 75-77F, see if you lower that temp to around that range.

You might have to try live rat pinkie. Attempt after a week of no handling. Leave the live prey inside and walk away. They are more likely to eat when no one is around. Feed at night. You can scent the room by placing the live rat in a box with holes next to the tub hours prior to feeding.

A lot of this is similar to ball python difficulty feeding. Husbandry needs to be right, they need to feel secure, and patience. Unlike ball pythons, these guys can go without food for much longer without issues.

If 3 more attempts have failed, go for a day old chick. For some reason, most like chicks a lot more than rodents. It can get them hook on chicks though.

SUCH beautiful snakes...pity they can make you pull your hair out when they're young-scared & refusing to eat. Hang in there, Caitlin. I've never had one of these, but if I think of anything else that you could try (besides what Cheesenugget suggested), I'll be sure to post again. I would definitely try live.

You can always put your smaller tub straight inside your larger cage, have you tried a live meal or don't want to go there? Mine has always been a crazy eager eater on rats but doesn't care at all for birds when I've offered for variety. I never had any of the feeding issues some do and mine went straight into an even larger cage so not much advice. Are you letting the prey warm up to temp near his cage at all so he gets "in the mood"?

Forgot to clarify: chicks may be too big for your snake if it's very young. I meant quail chicks if you can get your hands on them. The good thing with this species is once they start eating, they rarely have strikes as adults compared to ball pythons. So hang in there.

In the three I had, one male, then later a pair. The first was a nightmare to get eating. The pair I bought local, ate no problem. Best of luck.

I'll risk saying things you probably already know, but here goes, hopefully someones benefit. I recognize you are regular on here, and do not mean to be condescending at all, however, sometimes we forget things when we are concerned. Please take my suggestions with a grain of salt.

Also keep in mind I am not a dumerils expert by any stretch of the imagination. My BP, Shayna, can be a shy eater sometimes, as can my Scaleless corn, Solana.

Check-list

1. Dark, dark, dark. Feed at night, dark room, etc.

2. Make sure he feels secure otherwise - hides, etc.

3. Temps and humidity dialed in.

4. Try leaving the (F/T) prey overnight?

5. Scent the area (let the F/T prey sit next to the tank for a bit before feeding).

6. Try different prey (adult mouse if rat pups aren't exciting him right now)?

7. Any chance he is in, or going into, shed?

It can be stressful when you are seemingly doing everything right and an animal won't eat. I am thinking of you guys and pulling for you.

Thanks so much, everyone, for the support and the good advice and suggestions.

Never, ever hesitate to share reminders and advice with me even if you are sure I already know them. Keeping snakes for all these years has taught me a lot, but the most fundamental lessons have been that I've got to stay humble, remain open to advice, and always be willing to check and re-check the basics, even if they may seem obvious.

I've moved him into a 15-quart Sterilite tub in the quarantine room, which is super quiet and easily kept dim. He's still staying in the humidity box, so I am tempted to switch his substrate to coconut husk as that holds humidity better. I always worry a little when a snake spends most of its time in a humidity box - I take that as a signal that I need to re-adjust their overall conditions rather than let the box solve ongoing humidity issues. But a total substrate change is quite a bit of additional stress, so I am holding off for now and may just add some moss balls to the enclosure to keep humidity at 50-55%. I'll definitely try thawing his meals next to his enclosure and will be offering only at night.

I needed to place an order with Layne Labs this week, so I included a bag of day-old quail since it's a flat shipping cost anyway. And if the Dumeril's refuses the quail I am sure I'll have plenty of takers, as the rest of my crew is blessed with enthusiastic appetites.

He still looks like he's in great condition, so I suspect that those of you telling me to keep things quiet for him and just be patient are probably right. He's actually reminding me more and more of my Brazilian Rainbow Boa when she was little - shy, prefers low temps, has pretty specific humidity needs, and prefers quiet.

He's a gorgeous baby, and I am very much hoping that we get past this and he starts eating. Between beauty and temperament, he's a snake I've wanted for a long time, so I'm willing to accept the lessons and reminders he's dishing out to me about the fact that I just don't know it all, lol.

We are pulling for you and the little guy. Hope he starts eating soon.

Keep us posted.

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Originally Posted by dakski

I'll risk saying things you probably already know, but here goes, hopefully someones benefit. I recognize you are regular on here, and do not mean to be condescending at all, however, sometimes we forget things when we are concerned. Please take my suggestions with a grain of salt.

Also keep in mind I am not a dumerils expert by any stretch of the imagination. My BP, Shayna, can be a shy eater sometimes, as can my Scaleless corn, Solana.

Check-list

1. Dark, dark, dark. Feed at night, dark room, etc.

2. Make sure he feels secure otherwise - hides, etc.

3. Temps and humidity dialed in.

4. Try leaving the (F/T) prey overnight?

5. Scent the area (let the F/T prey sit next to the tank for a bit before feeding).

6. Try different prey (adult mouse if rat pups aren't exciting him right now)?

7. Any chance he is in, or going into, shed?

It can be stressful when you are seemingly doing everything right and an animal won't eat. I am thinking of you guys and pulling for you.

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All of the above PLUS .. maybe try the ‘hairdryer’ trick .. absolutely nothing to lose ... I’ll send the method to you by PM.

Plus if leaving it in peace overnight works for some maybe try that but start off with a warmed up thawed mouse / rat ?


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Keep us updated, best of luck. Sometimes, I use live to get an animal that’s young and never eaten with me before. Just make sure you definitely supervise. Again, just my two cents, Peace.

Victory! He took a F/T day-old quail chick tonight. I appreciate all of the advice and helpful suggestions. And it honestly just felt good knowing I had the support of a bunch of folks who understand the worries and frustrations around trying to get a baby to eat.

I'm not sure which, if any of these actions was the key to success, or if it was a combination of things - or maybe it was just the passage of time and him settling in. But for the sake of anyone else dealing with this in future:

I moved him to a smaller enclosure (15-quart tub) in a quiet, dim room. It's heated with a UTH; warm side temp is 83; ambient room temp is 75. I also kept the tub covered with a towel just to keep the potential for startling/scaring him to a minimum. He has never used a hide, so I removed it; he has a couple of inches of aspen substrate, which he spends about 2/3 of his time buried in with just his head sticking out.

Ambient humidity here has been pretty brutally low lately so I put a little tupperware container filled with damp sphagnum moss on one side of the tub. He immediately buried himself in it and stayed in it for three days. After that he went back to the aspen most of the time, but spends maybe a third of his time on or in the moss. He gets fresh water daily, and I've seen him regularly taking drinks at night.

Over the last month I tried offering him a meal once a week, at night, in a dim room, and always used a hair dryer to warm the meal before offering. He showed no interest in the rat pinkys or mouse hoppers he'd been eating while kept with his siblings, but tonight he took the quail chick pretty quickly - thanks to suggestions offered here, I thawed the quail on top of his enclosure to get the scent circulating, offered it once with no results, and re-warmed it and re-offered it after about 30 seconds - he took it on the second try. He's an odd little guy - he didn't move a muscle, not even a tongue-flick, so I was not hopeful. But once he decided to go for it, he struck hard and fast and dragged it under the substrate right away.

I won't feel at ease until he's taken a couple more meals, but just taking this first one has me hopeful. He only went a month without eating, and was in great condition. I know Boas have slow metabolisms so intellectually I understood that he was fine. I still worried, though, so am very relieved now.

It's been a long time since I have had to deal with a reluctant feeder. Most of the time it's like Little Shop of Horrors around here, with all of my snakes basically signaling 'FEED ME' whenever they think there's any remote chance of a meal. Here's hoping this beautiful little Dumeril's settles in and starts eating like a Boa!

In the meantime, thanks so much to all of you for your support and good advice. It doesn't matter how long I've kept snakes - when I've got a problem with one I've found it's best to maintain that 'beginner's mind' and be open to feedback! I'm just grateful there are experienced keepers here that I can trust, and that these boards are remarkably drama-free when it comes to offering advice. I admin a couple of snake groups on Facebook, so I know how crazy it can get, lol. I'm grateful for the sanity here.

I'm SO glad he ate for you...I know just how stressful it feels when one takes too long to eat. :gj:

Excellent news ... and don’t we need it these days !!




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Awesome!!!!!

The baby Dumeril's (I named him Gyre) just took his third quail, and I feel like we've had a breakthrough because he acted like a Boa tonight and not like a picky baby Ball Python!

I'm still keeping him in a small tub in a very quiet, dim room. I've even kept his tub covered with a light towel to be sure he's disturbed as little as possible. Tonight when I took the towel off, he came up and out of the substrate and lifted his head toward me before the lid was even off of the tub. And he snapped that quail up as soon as I offered it.

I knew he'd be OK as soon as he started eating a couple of weeks ago, but seeing him finally shift into acting like a baby Boa was another level of relief! I'm going to give him 2-3 more meals like this and if he continues doing well I'll start handling him and getting to know him better.

Aww, he shares his birthday with me. Congrats on the feeding success.

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The hunger ALWAYS wins and they ALL eat eventually. Glad your boa is getting on track. Now that he’s in a rhythm you could try offering him a rodent.

I had the same issue with my new baby dumerils. Refused any live or f/t rodents. I got my little guy going on f/t quail chicks too.

I picked up a CBB babe that was born in August and didn't eat for me after getting home. One of my buddies had a babe from the same clutch that eats like a beast. His is kept in a rack system, so her enclosure is smaller, dark, and humid.

I moved mine into an ET lg/lo when I got her (it was decked out with plants and 4-5 hides to make her feel as secure as I could). However, this was still a huge mistake. I was unaware of *just* how shy these little babes were. She didn't eat for me for a month and a half, although she wasn't losing weight either. Her parameters were perfect. I've been keeping snakes for 5 years or so and tried everything in the book to get her to take aside from assist and/or force feeding. The trick that finally worked for me was putting her in a shoebox with some of the bedding in her tank (half-on and half-off a small UTH), and leaving her in there for an hour before offering a brained PK fuzzy rat and leaving her with it overnight. It's worked twice now, and I'm hoping it'll continue.

I also leave the container in her tank now as a humid/dark hide, and I used duct tape to black-out the sides of her enclosure to make sure she felt safe.

Let us know how your babe is doing - has it eaten?

Thanks, all. I have really appreciated the thoughtful, informative, and supportive communication. These forums are a breath of fresh air compared to some of the rudeness and general insanity elsewhere.

I certainly agree with those of you who have pointed out just how shy these baby Dums can be. He's a gentle soul, and I can tell that I will need to be sensitive to him and take my time with him once I do start handling. For now he's still in his little shoebox-sized Iris tub with deep aspen substrate that he loves to burrow in. Every now and then he'll surface and hang out on his cork bark or in a bowl of damp sphagnum moss I provided - I live in a dry area, and winter humidity has been just brutal (right now ambient humidity in my house is 20%) so I can see why he sometimes likes to spend a few hours, or a few days, in his sphagnum moss.

The great news is that he is eating regularly and enthusiastically and that he made the switch to weaned rats. The first time I thawed the rat in the same bag as a quail so that it'd be scented, but he hasn't needed that for the last couple of feedings. One quirk I've noticed - and this may just be him - is that he really prefers to be fed later at night. Twice now I've offered once it's dark, at about 8pm, and he's been interested but refused. And both times when I offered again at 11pm he took the meal right away. I wouldn't normally repeat a meal offer like that, but all I can say is that I had a feeling about it. Not scientific, I know, but it worked for me so I'll take it. In each case, on feeding day he's still acting like a Boa - coming up out of the substrate and showing great interest as I approach him with his meal, so that has been wonderful.

I have some new PVC enclosures coming for other snakes in a few weeks, so will be doing some enclosure shuffling. If he is still eating regularly at that time - and I don't see why he wouldn't be - I'll move him into a larger enclosure and keep his shoebox in there as an option for him.