Panamanian Hypo Boa with a lump

Hi, My boa has developed a lump about 5 inches down is body from his head. It is located on the side of body right where his belly meets the upper patterning. The lump is inside his body - no outward signs of anything.

I have a scheduled a vet visit for September and was wondering what I should allow as far as treatment. I assume they will need to xray it??

Just not sure and am a bit worried about him. He acts fine and he is a big boy. He is about 7 years old now and over 6ft in length.

Any suggestions on what I should expect at the vet. I am just leery of exotic vets and don't want a bunch of unnecessary treatments or test.

Thank you

How long have you had this boa?
Any history of injections in that area of the body?
My other thought is possibly cancer, had a boa develop a lump which quickly turned into multiple lumps all over, had to be euthanized.
I hope your vet is able to give you some answers!

edit to add - they may xray, may cut open, may do blood tests

I've had him for 6 years - I believe he was a year old when I got him. I am not aware of any previous injections or even an illness to be honest.

I will keep my fingers crossed for good news on September 8th. When I first noticed it the lump was very small like a pea size but now I've noticed it has gotten bigger like to the size of a single clove of garlic. I'm worried.

Will update this post once I find out what is going on.

Thank you

I do not have much to add except I am thinking of you guys.

Please keep us posted.

He has an appointment on September 8th. I will update you all once I find out what they think it is. I just never have a good feeling about lumps on animals or people. Ugh!!!

Hi, I just got word from the pathology report on the slides they aspirated from the lump on my boa. They said they don't see cancer cells but believe it is a bacterial infection in the lump. Possibly injured from the toenail from a f/t rat while swallowing. I just don't know.

The doctor wants me to give him one injection of Fortaz every 3 days for 7 days. And, one injection of Amicasin (spelling) directly into the lump/mass every 3 days for 7 days.

What do you all think about this. Should I go ahead and proceed.

We did xrays which didn't show much also.

The lump as went from a pea size to the size of an almond slice since February 2020.

The vet said after 37 years of practice she has never been quite so stumped as to what this could be. No outward signs of injury on his body.

Help me make a decision on what to do. I never like having to give my snakes meds but if its needed then I have to.

Thank you

Most courses of antibiotic treatments are prescribed over a period of ~3weeks. Did they explain why they only want you to do 7 days? That’s how you end up with drug resistant bacterial strains.

If they feel it is a bacterial infection I’d ask for a culture to be done so that you can be sure the proper antibiotics are being prescribed.


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It was an injection every 3 days for 7 doses which would be 21 days. Maybe I explained that wrong in my original post.

They already aspirated the lump and sent the contents off to the lab which is where we are at now.

What else is there for me to have them culture??

Thanks

Gotcha, I guess I didn't read that as 7 total injections the first time around. 7 doses over 21 days is correct.

If they already sent a sample of the mass off to the lab did they identify what strain of bacteria is present? If the lump turns out to be puss of some sort it will likely need to be surgically removed. Reptilian puss is unlike mammalian puss in that it is a solid instead of liquid.

Was just double checking that your vet wasn't throwing antibiotics at a problem without knowing for sure that it was a bacterial infection. Many seem to follow the shoot first, ask questions later when treating reptiles unfortunately. Sounds like you're doing everything you should! Keep us posted!

It sounds like they ID'ed the bacteria involved since the vet said to inject the Amikacin at the wound site. The fortaz would help prevent sepsis and stop an opportunistic bacteria from taking over.

Note that both antibiotics are hard on the kidneys so I would hold off feeding again until after the treatment.

I called the vet to confirm that the type of bacteria was determined and appropriate meds will be used. They said yes

He last ate this past Sunday so he is scheduled for his first shot this Wednesday which will be over 48 hours since eating. Is this okay

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Originally Posted by L.West

He last ate this past Sunday so he is scheduled for his first shot this Wednesday which will be over 48 hours since eating. Is this okay

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Should be fine. I just wouldn't feed again until a week after the last injection, which would likely be normal schedule anyway for an older boa.

Okay, thanks. I only feed once a month now so it should work out good.

Yesterday was Sawyers first set of injections. He is such a trooper - he did so good. The drs seem confident that after the 3.5 weeks of injections done every 3 days he should be fine. Fingers crossed.

**Update on Sawyer** as of Wednesday, October 7th he completed the last of his injections of Fortaz and Amikasin.

He did great for the shots every 3 days. The lump has diminished if not completely gone - its hard to see. I pray is stays gone.

When should I offer him a meal again?? They think it may have been a scrape inside his body from the claws of the f/t rat and then it got infected. So, I think I may cut the nails on the feeder rats before feeding to avoid this ever happening again.

It was an expensive experience for sure.

Thanks

I would feed again on the 18th to give the antibiotic time to be fully excreted.

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They think it may have been a scrape inside his body from the claws of the f/t rat and then it got infected.

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I lost a boa to that last year, except the infection presented as an eye infection/swelling rather than a neck swelling because of the infection's location. So, we treated for eye issues instead of using an all-around course of antibiotics.

for some reason I can't open the link you sent.

Would love to read about it.

I am really happy this turned out better and wasn't cancer! Best wishes to you and Sawyer!

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Originally Posted by L.West

for some reason I can't open the link you sent.

Would love to read about it.

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Was supposed to be a quote, not a link. I fixed it. I am very glad to hear your boa is recovering.

Cut the feet/toes/nails off before you thaw. Your not the first an won't be the last to do it.

Glad he's better.

Good luck!

Very happy that it wasn't cancer, just an infection, & it's going well. :gj:

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Originally Posted by 303_enfield

Cut the feet/toes/nails off before you thaw. Your not the first an won't be the last to do it.

Glad he's better.

Good luck!

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I never thought something like this could happen.

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Originally Posted by L.West

I never thought something like this could happen.

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I was bit by a frozen rat yesterday. Stucker had his mouth open an a tooth opened my hand up when I pulled it out of the bag. The 8yo was screaming your bleeding yelling for mom. It just gave that rat to the barn cat. If a tooth was that sharp on my rough hand the snakes inside is much softer. Yes, thawed out the mouth should have closed, it's just not worth the chance. Now, I'll look before I pull one out. I guess if it's rough I can file it or cut it in the future.

I have cut frozen rabbits toenails before. As they looked like two inch knives.

If it could happen it will sooner or later.

Our pets are still safer then their wild cousins.


Good luck!

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Originally Posted by 303_enfield

I have cut frozen rabbits toenails before. As they looked like two inch knives.

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Rabbit claws are very sharp. I've been scratched a lot moving them around in the chest freezer.

I've cut adult chicken beaks and claws from f/t feeders as they can also do some damage.

Hi, just an update on Sawyer. He seems to have healed from his dilema. I can still see a bit on a lump sometimes though.

Lately, I've been seeing like a smear of something on the glass of his tank. Its always dry when i find it though. Could this be the start of an RI?? I checked him over - no mucous on his mouth. I don't know what else it could be.

Glad to hear he's doing well again.

As for the smears, my suriname male windshield wipes the glass doors all the time and leaves all kinds of smears, streaks, smudges, etc. They do drool sometimes when smashing their faces into things. Probably nothing to worry about if he's not showing any other RI symptoms.

Oh, that is great news. I was worried. I checked his mouth but didn't see any drool at all on him.

I will keep an eye on him. He is in the same cage with the same heat/humidity I've always kept him at - I was wondering why all of a sudden he would get an RI.

thank you

Here is a picture of the glass from his cage. Can anyone tell me if I should be concerned or is this nothing

He looks and acts fine. No drool or bubbles by his mouth

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1ff0ca735b.jpg

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Originally Posted by L.West

Here is a picture of the glass from his cage. Can anyone tell me if I should be concerned or is this nothing

He looks and acts fine. No drool or bubbles by his mouth

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...1ff0ca735b.jpg

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It's possible he got an RI IF conditions were bad AND/OR he was stressed from treating the lump.

I doubt it. It sounds like your conditions are good.

You also list no other symptoms of RI.

I dealt with a brutal RI with Yafe, my Carpet Python, when he was young and fed ex lost his package getting him to me. Within a day of hearing a few pops, he had mucus coming out of his nose, wheezing, popping, etc. He was weak as well.

If your guy seems normal otherwise, I wouldn't sweat it. Also, is he eating? If he eats, that's another sign he likely doesn't have an RI.

My BP whistled once and I saw smears in the tank. I freaked. Took her in for blood work and everything. She ended up being 100% fine and I overreacted. It was some debris or stuck shed in her nose that she was trying to get out.

Finally, as mentioned, boas like to window wash while waiting or hoping for food.

If it gets worse, let us know. There are specific things that need to be done to properly diagnose and treat RI's that many vets don't do.

I am thinking you are just worried about him because of what you just dealt with him and are being hyper-vigilant.

Good luck and keep us posted.

I had him out of his cage on Sunday to check on him. I held his head to my ear to listen. All I heard was the occasional puff of air that they often do but no pops or whistles.

He was put thru alot of disruption going back and forth to the vet for his shots - so I hope he didn't get too stressed out.

He is eating fine. He's only ate once since the procedure since I only feed him once a month. He gets a medium rat f/t.

He is in a API 4ft cage with an RHP. Temps are 79 cool side and 89/90 hot side. Humidity is kept at 60-65% in the winter months.

Let me know what I should be listening for or if I need to change something.

Thank you so much.

The smear is straight line. So it's a rub or he dragged his parts along the glass. If an RI, it would look more like a shotgun blast or three wet sneezes in the same spot.

Glad he's doing better!

Oh wonderful....thats a load of my mind. Thank you

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Hi, me again...I plan to get him looked at. What should I have the vet do exactly so we don't waste time and money

He's been having these smears everyday lately and that isn't normal for him.

Yesterday it looked more like a spray hit the glass so I think it is an RI

Please tell me what to have the vet do.

Thanks

Vet would need to do a culture. So that means a swab an test to see what is what. You don’t want a Doc that treats without knowing what is being treated. RI can be bacterial or viral, different treatments for both.

Till you see the Vet put the heat up a little. Take your pics with you an start writing your concerns down so you don’t forget. I would also write any behavior down you think is abnormal as your snake can’t tell the Doc what’s wrong.

Good luck!

He is in his own API cage and I have no way to move him away from the others. As long as I don't handle them and cross contaminate will the others be fine. This appears to be in the very early stages.

I pried open his mouth today and I didn't see bubbles just one strand of spit attached to his upper jaw to the lower jaw. Is that normal??

Called the vet - they intend to do a PCR Test. Says cultures are more for dogs and PCR test is more accurate.

any thoughts

I called another exotic vet that I've used before (but they are so far away) and asked if what this current vet said was accurate. He said he knows of this doctor and I was in good hands. She has 37 years experience with birds and exotics. He agreed with the PCR Test.

I at least feel like I will get some correct answers.

I'm sooo worried....are RI's succesfully treatable or is this the start of a nightmare of constant meds and vet visits.

If caught early, RI's can be very treatable, especially in animals like Boas, who are pretty hardy.

From my experience dealing with Yafe (my carpet python's) RI, which got bad quick, you want a tracheal wash to determine what you are dealing with. If swabs work, and that's a new thing, that's great, but in the past, and when Yafe had it, I was told Tracheal all the way to determine exactly what you are dealing with.

Either way, you need to know what type of bacteria you are dealing with and also that's not fungal.

Has he shown other symptoms yet? Discharge from mouth or nose? Popping or wheezing? Has he stopped eating?

If I missed that, I apologize, but it seems the smears are worse, but he might not have an RI yet.

Keep us posted, but try to be calm. Yafe was near death when he arrived (fed ex lost him) and within 24 hours was bubbling and had discharge from his mouth, popping and wheezing, etc. He was 100g baby. Now he's 765G and doing phenomenal. My point is, be careful to ensure that he's sick, make sure you know exactly what you are dealing with and treat appropriately. Don't rush - do it right.

He's at the vet. They did a prc test and sent it to the lab to be tested. In the mean time they are starting injections of Fortaz and keeping him for a few days to give him medicated nebulizer treatments.

He really didnt act sick at all. No bubbles in his mouth and he ate fine.

Only symptom was the smears on his glass cage doors.

This is my first time dealing with an RI and I've kept snakes for years.



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Honestly sounds like a big slobbery boa that rubs the glass to me. I’ve found big streaks of “schtuff” on occasion from either of my boas. Sometimes they just happen to bulldoze their doors after taking a long drink of water and make a hot mess...


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Originally Posted by L.West

He's at the vet. They did a prc test and sent it to the lab to be tested. In the mean time they are starting injections of Fortaz and keeping him for a few days to give him medicated nebulizer treatments.

He really didnt act sick at all. No bubbles in his mouth and he ate fine.

Only symptom was the smears on his glass cage doors.

This is my first time dealing with an RI and I've kept snakes for years.



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Did the vet say definitively that he has an RI?

If not, you are probably just stressing him out, IMO.

What's done is done, but now if the culture comes back negative, you need to ask the vet how long to keep him on the antibiotics. Starting and stopping antibiotics is not ideal, but also, staying on them could cause stomach issues, etc.

I honestly think the vet is either being precautionary or flat out taking your money, neither of which I agree with.

Maybe you prove me wrong and the culture comes back full of bacteria and he has a full blown RI tomorrow warranting putting him through all this.

Don't get me wrong, I want what's best for your boa, but I do not think, having seen a full blown RI, you are anywhere close.

EDIT: Did they do a blood test? Were white blood cells elevated? I think I mentioned I had a scare with my BP Shayna, before I got Yafe, and knew what an RI really looked like. She was still making noises when we got to the vet, but not as bad, and the vet drew blood and saw no signs of infection. The next day she was back to normal. Harder with BP's who can fast in the winter to know if something is wrong, but if your guy was eating too, I just don't see an RI. The point is, a blood test to see if there is an active infection, prevents unnecessary treatment and is probably the lesser of the evils vs. antibiotics, staying at the vet, etc.

I couldn't go in the vet due to covid. She told me he definitely has an RI. She did a swab down his throat to send it out. Is all I really know.

It could take days to get the results back ugh

I'm so over all of it. I had recently thought about getting out of the hobby altogether due to expenses since I also have 5 dogs that seem to always be at the vet for one thing or another

Life happens and I don't want pets that I can't afford to treat medically should the need arise.

I'm recently widowed and everything is so different in my life and being alone financially. It sucks.

I will see him thru this medically and then start to rehome my snakes.

I will update you all on how this turns out. I sure hope I didn't put him thru all this for nothing. It's to the point that I don't trust vets anymore. Who knows if they know what they are doing. Ugh

So over it emotionally and financially.

Thanks to you all for trying to help...you're the best.

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Hang in there. Life can throw curve balls.

Again, we just want what's best for you and your snake.

I was trying to save you the expense and your boa the stress, that's all. If the vet said RI, okay. Good thing you acted and you were the one there.

Take a deep breathe and reassess once things come down.

I do not think anyone here questions your intent and care for your animals. It's the opposite. We know you care and sometimes that can cloud vision. I did it with Shayna, and I freaked when Behira (BI) starting having those quick shedding issues. I am still learning to trust my gut, what I know, and rely on the people here. I also have two excellent reptiles vets in my vicinity whom I trust and who work with me as they know I am not a typical owner knowledge wise.

You did what you thought was right. Don't look back. I doubt anything bad will come from it except the financial strain.

I am really sorry to hear about what you've been going through. I too have had a tough year - well beyond the 2020 nonsense. If you ever want to PM, just shoot me a message.

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Originally Posted by L.West

I couldn't go in the vet due to covid. She told me he definitely has an RI. She did a swab down his throat to send it out. Is all I really know.

It could take days to get the results back ugh

I'm so over all of it. I had recently thought about getting out of the hobby altogether due to expenses since I also have 5 dogs that seem to always be at the vet for one thing or another

Life happens and I don't want pets that I can't afford to treat medically should the need arise.

I'm recently widowed and everything is so different in my life and being alone financially. It sucks.

I will see him thru this medically and then start to rehome my snakes.

I will update you all on how this turns out. I sure hope I didn't put him thru all this for nothing. It's to the point that I don't trust vets anymore. Who knows if they know what they are doing. Ugh

So over it emotionally and financially.

Thanks to you all for trying to help...you're the best.

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These times are very stressful for everyone, & I'm so sorry about the recent loss of your partner. You have every reason to feel overwhelmed, but I hope you don't rush things- life is always about ups & downs, and pets are a great place to focus our attention during times like these. By the way, I had 4 big dogs for many years (in the past), so I can relate to what you're going through with your 5; I only have 2 now, & they're both senior citizens (15 1/2 and 13 years old). I truly hope things calm down for you- you sound like a very responsible & caring owner ("snarent").